Agri Investment

[aussieruss]

hi all how many agree our kids could be the the nextgeneration to invest in to change the face of agriculture in thailand are there enough off them to make a differance rgds russell

[IsaanAussie]

Two easy answers Russ. Make sure your seed is good quality with a high germination rate. Then "go forth and multiple".

[revar]

land prices might be a problem. You need a lot of rai to make it profitable enough to live from it. Most youngsters like my sons prefer office or other jobs in the city.

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

[IsaanAussie]

Seriously the future for farming here can ultimately go only one way. The nation has grown up and is considered developed. Wages have risen and there are easier jobs that pay better. But the biggest factor here is farming is no longer a part of the culture, no longer a way of life, no longer something that bonds the family and the village together. It is a low paid occupation here now.

I ran a small manufacturing factory here some years ago. Every year you could count on many of the staff disappearing back home when planting or harvesting time came around to do their bit. Now at the other end, looking for labour at those times and it isn't there. Sure they send the funds instead, but the family and community spirit has gone. Soon with returns so low, the question will be asked, "Is it worth it at all?" Soon saving to build the new house back home for your retirement won't seem such a good idea. Go back to what?

Corporate agriculture can wait for the next burst in the economy after that, then they will mop up all the idle land.

Russ heres my question back. If my view of the future is even close, what would draw the next or subsequent generations into small holding farming?

[aussieruss]

hi all Every good agri buisness has a office rgds russell ps Revar would you like a lift to IA metting no 8 rgds russell

[cdmtdm]

i see a big opportunity coming for some families who educate their kids and have them return to agri business to innovate and expand ...yes the numbers are not large but those that do will be rewarded ,,,,farming land IMO compared to the rest of the developed world is cheap here ... but us Farangs will never get big benefit but our kids may !!!

[aussieruss]

hi all for the last 10 years my 2step daughters question why we buy land each year (now 180rai)to day my youngest step daughter that is in a autralian uni doing agriculture text me a photo of a 10-000 rai cotton farm in OZ and told me how big it was and my response was now you know why we brought the land i still dont no what we will do on the land yet but i have 1 1/2 years to work it out rgds russell

[Phronesis]

If my view of the future is even close, what would draw the next or subsequent generations into small holding farming?

Implosion of the current debt based economy and the subsequent loss of service industry jobs in the city.

But a return to small plot cropping is no longer possible as the skills and knowledge have not been passed down from the elderly to the next generation...they have been toiling away in Grungthep to service the payments on their Honda Jazz.

The disenfranchisement of Thailand's rural youth will then be complete...no jobs in the City...and no farm to return home to...

Just as the Thai elite intended...

Edited March 9, 2013 by Phronesis

[IsaanAussie]

Cant agree to the details but overall I agree. Agriculture has been forgotten in twenty years the % of employment has halved to less than 40%. Rice exports from the leading contributor to number 10, Thailand dropped to second place as the leading rice exporter. Acreage is down, yields less than all neighboring countries. Farming in Thailand is a sick puppy.

Yet inside all of that the largest feed maker finds a home and has spread to 12 other countries. Agribusiness for Thai based MNC's is huge. Globally significant, just like the Toyotas of this world that now contribute most the the country economically in terms or jobs, industry development and export earnings.

Elite and their plans? I don't know, but this I do know, you don't get rich growing rice in Thailand now, if you ever did!

[David48]

Must admit ... the Family's Farm.

If one day, if I decide to buy one of the options available, for me, given the location, I'd just be 'land-banking'.

What I do see as a disconnect is the cost of the arable Farmland and the return available or the ROI*.

As we have discussed many times before ... the ROI does not currently justify the broadacre purchases.

* ROI = Return On Equity.

[IsaanAussie]

I am constantly amazed by this old world. Farmers have always complained about the hard life and poor returns, but there are still farmers on the land. So poor are the returns that mega-corporations have been formed and spread across the world in order to grow money. The one thing that isn't being increased any more is the land area.

Mother Nature must sit back when she watches what we farmers do and shake her head. We farm marginal land into deserts and build concrete jungles on the fertile delta regions. Not too many sharp pencils in that box.... she must think to herself.

Take Bangkok for instance, developed with a system of drainage and irrigation canals to control flooding, grow crops to feed the city and provide transport. Of course to allow for progress the city spreads up and out and much of the klong system is no longer used so of course you just fill it in and build on top. Doing that means the system no longer flushes as designed and the water becomes unusable. So we revert to nature and look for "clean water" under the ground. We pump ground water at sufficient rates that the city sinks below sea level.

That won't stop us. We build elevated roads and put the trains in water proof pipes underground with access snorkels for entry.

But we humans realise that yesterday's original plans may need to be updated so we act to improve things. A bigger and better airport, that will attract more visitors and investment so its built on an old swampy bit of ground not used for much, just a few peasant farms. Of course it cannot be allowed to flood like the old airport so the land is built up. Since we are doing that anyway, why not build an industrial park near the airport and some housing?

What has really been built? A giant bath plug that stops the water from Chiang Mai reaching the ocean without flooding the capital.

Now step back upcountry where none of that clutter happens. We live in a small village with a central road running through it. More connecting lanes are added as the village spreads. Then the government acts and builds us a concrete road. Of course that is raised higher so it will drain in the wet. What was formed? A series of new "Paddy Fields", house paddies. So we jack the houses up and fill in the ground floor swimming pool, and let the rain flood out the neighbours. They react and raise their house even higher...... The levels are all over the place, the old drainage system just fills with water and rubbish so following the capitals example, fill it in!

So right now. Our rice farms are being levelled and what top soil is left is being removed and sold to pay the excavator operator. Thank heavens there is such a good market for dirt in the house renovation industry. Just before the wet should be called dirt season.

Yeap, some real sharp pencils here! Trouble is most of the lead in the pencil is broken and just falls out, sharp or not...

[somo]

I find this talk of how the Thais are screwing up their country a little bit irrelevant.
They will do it their way and have been doing so for centuries and in my opinion haven't got it
so badly wrong. We all tend to complain that things should be done better but conversley agree that
this is a wonderful place to live. None of us are going to alter the course of the future here so
should just focus on adapting to how things are and make the best of it.
Agricultural land has become too expensive to justify buying but there are other options
for the likes of us. Renting and joint enterprises with land owners for example. Their land and our
finance/business approach can be a powerful combination. For farang I feel that is the future. Not trying to do it all ourselves but entering joint ventures.

I know many will shout such things are an impossibilty given the supposed propensity of Thais to take the money and run but I disagree.

[ozzydom]

I am constantly amazed by this old world. Farmers have always complained about the hard life and poor returns, but there are still farmers on the land. So poor are the returns that mega-corporations have been formed and spread across the world in order to grow money. The one thing that isn't being increased any more is the land area.

Mother Nature must sit back when she watches what we farmers do and shake her head. We farm marginal land into deserts and build concrete jungles on the fertile delta regions. Not too many sharp pencils in that box.... she must think to herself.

Take Bangkok for instance, developed with a system of drainage and irrigation canals to control flooding, grow crops to feed the city and provide transport. Of course to allow for progress the city spreads up and out and much of the klong system is no longer used so of course you just fill it in and build on top. Doing that means the system no longer flushes as designed and the water becomes unusable. So we revert to nature and look for "clean water" under the ground. We pump ground water at sufficient rates that the city sinks below sea level.

That won't stop us. We build elevated roads and put the trains in water proof pipes underground with access snorkels for entry.

But we humans realise that yesterday's original plans may need to be updated so we act to improve things. A bigger and better airport, that will attract more visitors and investment so its built on an old swampy bit of ground not used for much, just a few peasant farms. Of course it cannot be allowed to flood like the old airport so the land is built up. Since we are doing that anyway, why not build an industrial park near the airport and some housing?

What has really been built? A giant bath plug that stops the water from Chiang Mai reaching the ocean without flooding the capital.

Now step back upcountry where none of that clutter happens. We live in a small village with a central road running through it. More connecting lanes are added as the village spreads. Then the government acts and builds us a concrete road. Of course that is raised higher so it will drain in the wet. What was formed? A series of new "Paddy Fields", house paddies. So we jack the houses up and fill in the ground floor swimming pool, and let the rain flood out the neighbours. They react and raise their house even higher...... The levels are all over the place, the old drainage system just fills with water and rubbish so following the capitals example, fill it in!

So right now. Our rice farms are being levelled and what top soil is left is being removed and sold to pay the excavator operator. Thank heavens there is such a good market for dirt in the house renovation industry. Just before the wet should be called dirt season.

Yeap, some real sharp pencils here! Trouble is most of the lead in the pencil is broken and just falls out, sharp or not...

If I didnt know better I would swear you live in our village

[IsaanAussie]

Come on Dom,any village anywhere,same same.

[cooked]

..nobody under 40 farming (rice) in our village.... nobody planning on farming after school. It seems inevitable that a wave of land buying by a big corporation is going to happen. When they start crop spraying it will be time to leave I think.

[ozzydom]

Come on Dom,any village anywhere,same same.

To true,old mate,to true.

[IsaanAussie]

Cheer up guys, start looking at the short term opportunities. Lets assume we are young enough and inspired enough to take more on. Why not look at a rice planter and do the lot ourselves, pay the rent in rice at harvest.

[Phronesis]

Cheer up guys, start looking at the short term opportunities. Lets assume we are young enough and inspired enough to take more on. Why not look at a rice planter and do the lot ourselves, pay the rent in rice at harvest.

I think you guys would be mortified to learn how many small plots are ALREADY owned by the Chinese.

In Australia, they have been systematically purchasing prime Australia ag land using and array of complex business entities to hide their ownership.

The same has been occuring in Thailand.

Do you really think that the astronomical rise in the price of paddy land is because of money coming out of Bangkok? Pffft...

[somo]

Cheer up guys, start looking at the short term opportunities. Lets assume we are young enough and inspired enough to take more on. Why not look at a rice planter and do the lot ourselves, pay the rent in rice at harvest.

I think you guys would be mortified to learn how many small plots are ALREADY owned by the Chinese.

In Australia, they have been systematically purchasing prime Australia ag land using and array of complex business entities to hide their ownership.

The same has been occuring in Thailand.

Do you really think that the astronomical rise in the price of paddy land is because of money coming out of Bangkok? Pffft...

Go on tell us then. How many plots?

Also how come you know?

[cdmtdm]

Cheer up guys, start looking at the short term opportunities. Lets assume we are young enough and inspired enough to take more on. Why not look at a rice planter and do the lot ourselves, pay the rent in rice at harvest.

I think you guys would be mortified to learn how many small plots are ALREADY owned by the Chinese.

In Australia, they have been systematically purchasing prime Australia ag land using and array of complex business entities to hide their ownership.

The same has been occuring in Thailand.

Do you really think that the astronomical rise in the price of paddy land is because of money coming out of Bangkok? Pffft...

Go on tell us then. How many plots?

Also how come you know?

That is BS about Australia ....the Chinese just recently were sucessfull in winning the tender for the Ord River expansion in the Kimberley ...leasehold ..... i think u need to supply some actual cases of this happening both here and in Oz ....

[David48]

I think you guys would be mortified to learn how many small plots are ALREADY owned by the Chinese.

In Australia, they have been systematically purchasing prime Australia ag land using and array of complex business entities to hide their ownership.

The same has been occuring in Thailand.

Do you really think that the astronomical rise in the price of paddy land is because of money coming out of Bangkok? Pffft...

Go on tell us then. How many plots?

Also how come you know?

That is BS about Australia ....the Chinese just recently were sucessfull in winning the tender for the Ord River expansion in the Kimberley ...leasehold ..... i think u need to supply some actual cases of this happening both here and in Oz ....

Post below ...

[David48]

Cubbie station goes to China for 'a steal'

AUSTRALIA'S most valuable farm, Cubbie station, has become majority foreign-owned as its former chairman questioned whether the vast cotton growing concern was a "steal" for Chinese investors.

The sale, reportedly for about $240 million, settled last night, ending years of controversy over the fate of the irrigation operation that straddles the headwaters of the Murray-Darling river system in
southwest Queensland.

By 2010-11, the 96,000ha farm was producing cotton and cotton seed that earned $80m before interest and tax. "If they got it for $240m, they have got a steal, considering it's an enterprise that is capable of producing a gross profit of $80m a year,"
Mr De Lacy told The Weekend Australian.

[cdmtdm]

• Cubbie was hardly a hidden deal..... the Chinese/ Japanese have been investing in Oz and many countries for that matter for a very longtime , they are looking to secure supply of food and raw materials for the future , it is no different to the huge Chinese investment in Mining in Oz ....

[somo]

Phronesis claimed the chinese were secretely buying up Thai agri land just as they have already done in Oz

So far no evidence to supprt the claim so assume it is just fantasy. Even if they are they will get ripped off as it is illegal

for them to own it. I have yet to come across any chinamen lurking around my village trying to buy land.

The above deal was an open legal deal and no secret.

[Khonwan]

My district must be different then because I see a great many kids here following their parents into farming by renting or buying land. I see no Chinese nationals here – in fact, very few foreigners, and we all have Thai families and been here for many years (I can think of only one Cambodian, one Bangladeshi, and myself). Farmland value has risen in my area eightfold in the past 17 years I’ve farmed here and rents are now 2,000 baht per rai.

I can’t see my kids enjoying any further advantages in agriculture that I do not already enjoy via my wife. Despite successive miserable governments here, life on the farm is good! Spent a great day at Siam AG Marketing two days ago in Nakhon Prathom being wined and dined with a large group of mostly ag vendors and some other farmers - even enjoyed my first (I think) shark fin soup (which I would not have eaten had I known).

Rgds
Khonwan

[nevets]

I only have 9 rai in Phetchaburi but sadley the wifes son 25yrs old has no emosions for farming its too hard for him .

Farming is hard work and the young look for easier ways to make their money.

[kickstart]

About 5 years ago the BBC world service had a piece on the Arab states obtaining ? land in Ayuthaya province ,for growing rice ,and sending it all back to thay countries and it was a lot of land ,the Thai farmers never got a look in, I think thay even had there own managers ect ,I can also

remember reading it in the newspappers, the outcrys, foreign investers cheating Thais ect, it does go on.

Rgs

K