Anti-government Rally Thread 13-25 March

[lukamar]

[ lol .... glad you have a finger on the pulse !

At least I have my finger on the pulse, we all know where your finger is situated..

[jdinasia]

oh where? (gotta love pithy one-liners in response to a real post!)

Edited March 26, 2006 by jdinasia

[lukamar]

I mean c'mon Phayao is on the border of Isaan and the North .. and pretty much all Thais can speak central (they all understand it) ...

Phayao is the north and not near Isaan.

All thai's can speak central Thai because it is the official dialect and taught in all schools except the deep south Muslim ones.

I can't be bothered trying to explain the regions of Thailand to someone that's there, you obviously don't have a clue about the regions or the cultural differences they have. But here goes.

Phayao province is s North, it was originally Phayao joined with Chiang Rai and then went back to Phayao and does not border Isaan.

Nakhon Ratchasima, where my wife was born but did not grow up but her mother's side of the family are there, is North-East (Isaan)

NORTH

Chiang Mai (เชียงใหม่)

Chiang Rai (เชียงราย)

Kamphaeng Phet (กำแพงเพชร)

Lampang (ลำปาง)

Lamphun (ลำพูน)

Mae Hong Son (แม่ฮ่องสอน)

Nakhon Sawan (นครสวรรค์)

Nan (น่าน)

Phayao (พะเยา)

Phetchabun (เพชรบูรณ์)

Phichit (พิจิตร)

Phitsanulok (พิษณุโลก)

Phrae (แพร่)

Sukhothai (สุโขทัย)

Tak (ตาก)

Uthai Thani (อุทัยธานี)

Uttaradit (อุตรดิตถ์

North East (Issan)

Amnat Charoen (อำนาจเจริญ)

Buriram (บุรีรัมย์)

Chaiyaphum (ชัยภูมิ)

Kalasin (กาฬสินธุ์)

Khon Kaen (ขอนแก่น)

Loei (เลย)

Maha Sarakham (มหาสารคาม)

Mukdahan (มุกดาหาร)

Nakhon Phanom (นครพนม)

Nakhon Ratchasima (นครราชสีมา)

Nongbua Lamphu (หนองบัวลำภู)

Nong Khai (หนองคาย)

Roi Et (ร้อยเอ็ด)

Sakon Nakhon (สกลนคร)

Sisaket (ศรีสะเกษ)

Surin (สุรินทร์)

Ubon Ratchathani (อุบลราชธานี)

Udon Thani (อุดรธานี)

Yasothon (ยโสธร)

Central

Ang Thong (อ่างทอง)

Ayutthaya (พระนครศรีอยุธยา)

Bangkok (กรุงเทพฯ)

Chainat (ชัยนาท)

Kanchanaburi (กาญจนบุรี)

Lopburi (ลพบุรี)

Nakhon Nayok (นครนายก)

Nakhon Pathom (นครปฐม)

Nonthaburi (นนทบุรี)

Pathumthani (ปทุมธานี)

Phetchaburi (เพชรบุรี)

Prachuap Khiri Khan (ประจวบคีรีขันธ์)

Ratchaburi (ราชบุรี)

Samut Prakan (สมุทรปราการ)

Samut Sakhon (สมุทรสาคร)

Samut Songkhram (สมุทรสงคราม)

Saraburi (สระบุรี)

Sing Buri (สิงห์บุรี)

Suphanburi (สุพรรณบุรี

From such a wealth of Thai knowledge and living within Thailand, I would have thought you would know this elementary school geography stuff.

[jdinasia]

lol ... ###### I made a geography mistake ... was thinking in the North bordering Laos. (yes it is 4:07 am) Even though I KNEW Phayao was near ChangRai and bordered Laos I managed to type a mistake! .... (hence the Isaan/Lao dialect crossover) But Good on you ! You finally get one point!

But since I clearly stated that Nakhon Nayok bordered Nakhon Ratchasima ... you lose the point back .... but hel_l ... a "push" is better than you've done in any discussion in this forum that I have seen!!

Edited March 26, 2006 by jdinasia

[lukamar]

oh where?

Ask one of your friends from a Central province. If you ask a Northerner or a North-easterner they may show you with their foot.

(gotta love pithy one-liners in response to a real post!)

Does that apply to your recent one liners on this thread alone.. #415, #418,#420 and now this one.

Edited March 26, 2006 by lukamar

[jdinasia]

"to a real post" but keep trying!

And many of my friends are from Isaan and several from Chiang Rai ... I guess that since I am "foot free" kinda proves that wrong. But way off in Canada with your finger on the pulse of what people are experiencing here in Thailand OBVIOUSLY makes you the expert .... I bow to your greater knowledge!

((On a side note ... many of the people I know, from what Lukie describes as the 'only real upcountry' in so many words; believe that the election was set BEFORE songkran to keep the several million Thais from taking what they have learned about the PM by living in BKK back upcountry for discussion prior to voting))

[jdinasia]

pssst 'only real upcountry' is a paraphrase ... like the other time .....

[sonnyJ]

OMG!! It's amazing! A Thai that speaks Thai! Fluently no less! Luk ...

Read it again... I said "3 of the 4 major dialects fluently." You continually take things out of context to try and prove your point, few Thai actually speak more than 2 dialects, their home province one and central. If their home province is a central dialect, like Nakhon Nayok, it's probably the only one they know.

LOL Luk ... you were (and still are) being a language snob about something pretty basic for a Thai .... I mean c'mon Phayao is on the border of Isaan and the North .. and pretty much all Thais can speak central (they all understand it) ... so why would it be surprising? and quite a few people in Nakhon Nayok speak Isaan well. After all Khao Yai is in both Nakhon Ratchasima and Nakhon Nayok

being in Thailand and not Canada ...

Has nothing to do with anything this is the information age you know the one you think all the poor rural folk should embrace to get informed..

Luk ... being inCanada limits your contact with People ... if you don't see that you are truly lost!

But you are tight I am NOT fluent in Passah Pak Isaan ... but I was there with friends that are educated at Chula and speak the local dialect as well as central Thai and didn't need to rely on them.

That's because they were polite and speaking central to you. Go to Nan and sit down with some rural people and see how much you understand, especially if you tell them how uninformed they are..

Luk ... they were talking amongst themselves and I understood .... you couldn't get that from the sentence?

As for people from Ubon etc considering the rice fields of Nakhon Nayok upcountry ..... is there a point there? The same would go for the area outside HuaHin :-)

Yes... The point is you used your other half to show you are in touch with the upcountry side of things. It's not close to upcountry at all or their upcountry views..LOL

OK ... you got me ... the Province adjoining Nakhon ratchasima is NOT close to "upcountry"

Your reverse snobbery is getting pretty interesting though ..... starting with "those bangkok people sure are ....." and developing into "those people that are in agricultural provinces that are too close to Bangkok are ......" WOW!

Nice quote there. Where did you find that? Although you put that in "quotes" and associated it with me maybe you should show the whole quote to the rest of us. Otherwise it's just so much more made up BS.

This one could almost be valid ... except you have generalized the people supporting PAD and BKKians often ... so ... no go here either.

It's just like me trying to get the forum to believe it is you saying, "being in Thailand I happen to be lost on purpose, but then again I had friends." They are all your words from your last post but put together to prove another point. WOW!

lol .... glad you have a finger on the pulse of people in the street from Canada Luk ... it gives me hope!

Come on guys?

I'm completely lost between your lively coloured paragraphs to the point being comletely lost.

This is a forum and everybody should be able to read the contense. Including your lingo/replys too!

Guess we should have some amendments done here. And that won't require a vote, just the benefit for the readers.

[lukamar]

lol ... ###### I made a geography mistake ... was thinking in the North bordering Laos. (yes it is 4:07 am) Even though I KNEW Phayao was near ChangRai and bordered Laos I managed to type a mistake! ....

Ohhhh...... You make a mistake and that's OK.... but if I make one you get to put it in your Signature file and keep ridiculing me about it for weeks.

What should I do? Make my Sig something like this, as you did....

==========

the most prized quote from recent days on TV is ... "Phayao is on the border of Isaan and the North"

<<someone needed a geography lesson!>>

=========

Na... Everyone makes mistakes and deserves another chance and I'm a better person than that, which is more than I can say for someone else.

[sriracha john]

All this regionalism discussion is interesting, but it does highlight a concern that it is rather counter-productive to any goal of unifying Thailand.

As for geography lessons, it's all rather pointless as people have moved about so much that "regions" and their accompanying philosophies can't be clearly defined by a provincial border. My city's 5 fold increase in population is certainly not strictly due to local bedroom Olympics. For example, if I engage in discussions with a group of Ubonites here, it wouldn't be accurate to later say, "Oh, these Srirachaians feel this way on the issue."

As for the dialect variations, it works both ways as Thaksin has on several occasions explained the media's "misinterpretation" of a speech of his or that people don't understand him was due to his

Chiang Mai-ness.

Edited March 27, 2006 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

As for what does or does not constitute "upcountry".... that too is rather pointless without a clear definition.

Most references I have seen simply define it as ANYWHERE outside of metropolitan Bangkok.

[Thaible]

Rally renews call for King to step in

''We, the demonstrators, see no solutions to end the crisis without bloodshed other than appealing for His Majesty's help and asking him to consider invoking article 7 of the constitution and appointing an interim government,'' read the petition.

Source: Bangkok Post - Sun, March 26, 2006

Sounds like the PAD are starting to threaten violence.

I hope it's an empty threat - the demonstrations have been amazingly peaceful so far considering how large they are.

Come off it Thaible since when do any of the leaders subscribe or indeed want a violent senario.

Most sensible people know that the PAD are not offering violence and are referring to what many of us fear may eventually happen due to third party interference.

Here's a quote from CNN's website written yesterday:

"The crisis has reached an impasse," Sondhi Limthongkul, a key leader in the anti-Thaksin alliance, told the crowd late Saturday night. "We, the king's subjects, see no other way out in resolving the crisis without causing bloodshed."

Another good section of the same article:

Prem's vote was enough for the newspaper The Nation to all but give up expectations of any last-minute intervention by the king, acknowledging the problems may not be critical enough for such a move.

"What constitutes a political crisis?" the newspaper asked in an editorial. "Corruption? Every government is corrupt more or less. Dictatorship? Thaksin has just called a snap election."

[lukamar]

As for what does or does not constitute "upcountry".... that too is rather pointless without a clear definition.

Most references I have seen simply define it as ANYWHERE outside of metropolitan Bangkok.

I understand what you are saying and it probably has a vast difference where you come from as to what you consider upcountry. I get the impression that most people from the north Chiang Mai/Rai feel that upcountry is not just the metropolitan area of Bangkok but would include surrounding areas quite far out, even if rural in nature. Where they would draw the line I would not know.

[sriracha john]

hence the need for non-discussion of such a nonsensical, unspecific, ill-defined term.

[Jai Dee]

Come on guys?

I'm completely lost between your lively coloured paragraphs to the point being comletely lost.

This is a forum and everybody should be able to read the contense. Including your lingo/replys too!

Guess we should have some amendments done here. And that won't require a vote, just the benefit for the readers.

I agree... can we please get back on topic people?

If you want a private exchange, please use the PM (Personal Message) facility and not the News Forum to have your discussion. Maybe the chat room?

[lukamar]

Here's a quote from CNN's website written yesterday:

"The crisis has reached an impasse," Sondhi Limthongkul, a key leader in the anti-Thaksin alliance, told the crowd late Saturday night. "We, the king's subjects, see no other way out in resolving the crisis without causing bloodshed."

Another good section of the same article:

Prem's vote was enough for the newspaper The Nation to all but give up expectations of any last-minute intervention by the king, acknowledging the problems may not be critical enough for such a move.

"What constitutes a political crisis?" the newspaper asked in an editorial. "Corruption? Every government is corrupt more or less. Dictatorship? Thaksin has just called a snap election."

I hope the people in the protests are brighter than Sondhi because he would sacrifice them all,in an heartbeat if he thought he could one up Thaksin. He's always using the PAD as a personal vendetta machine.

I saw Prem's vote as "the whisper" everyone was waiting for, others do not agree time will tell but I did notice the change in the Nation's reporting directly after that. Maybe they are starting to cover their butt as today their lead website headline was

CRISIS SOLUTION

Thaksin proposes 'national govt'

[sriracha john]

"What constitutes a political crisis?" the newspaper asked in an editorial. "Corruption? Every government is corrupt more or less. Dictatorship? Thaksin has just called a snap election."[/i]

Did the CNN editors say anything about the Auditor-General's description of Thaksin's corruption

as "unprecedented?"

To say all governments are corrupt "more or less" trivializes the issue that Thaksin's level of corruption which makes all others pale in comparison.

It's akin to labelling an eight year-old shoplifting a candy bar the same title "robber" as the recent Bank of England thieves who stole millions of pounds.

Further trivialization is evident by saying that the moniker "dictator" hinges on his call for a snap election. It ignores the literally dozens of other issues that have earned him that title.

[lukamar]

I agree... can we please get back on topic people?

Done..

[Thaible]

"What constitutes a political crisis?" the newspaper asked in an editorial. "Corruption? Every government is corrupt more or less. Dictatorship? Thaksin has just called a snap election."[/i]

Did the CNN editors say anything about the Auditor-General's description of Thaksin's corruption

as "unprecedented?"

To say all governments are corrupt "more or less" trivializes the issue that Thaksin's level of corruption which makes all others pale in comparison.

It's akin to labelling an eight year-old shoplifting a candy bar the same title "robber" as the recent Bank of England thieves who stole millions of pounds.

Further trivialization is evident by saying that the moniker "dictator" hinges on his call for a snap election. It ignores the literally dozens of other issues that have earned him that title.

The anti-Thaksin faction trivializes the atrocities of World War II when they insist on comparing Thaksin to Hitler.

The embassy of Israel wrote a letter to the Bangkok Post (which was published) complaining about the same thing, and it was pretty harsh.

But before I get too off-topic, I think that Associated Press (I found the article on CNN but it was actually written by AP) is correct in that the "crisis" is not really one, especially as the protestors represent less than 1% of the population.

Edited March 27, 2006 by Thaible

[Thaible]

But before I get too off-topic, I think that Associated Press (I found the article on CNN but it was actually written by AP) is correct in that the "crisis" is not really one, especially as the protestors represent less than 1% of the population.

But of course it will be a crisis if the protestors start inciting violence as Sondhi seems to be threatening to.

[sriracha john]

"What constitutes a political crisis?" the newspaper asked in an editorial. "Corruption? Every government is corrupt more or less. Dictatorship? Thaksin has just called a snap election."[/i]

Did the CNN editors say anything about the Auditor-General's description of Thaksin's corruption

as "unprecedented?"

To say all governments are corrupt "more or less" trivializes the issue that Thaksin's level of corruption which makes all others pale in comparison.

It's akin to labelling an eight year-old shoplifting a candy bar the same title "robber" as the recent Bank of England thieves who stole millions of pounds.

Further trivialization is evident by saying that the moniker "dictator" hinges on his call for a snap election. It ignores the literally dozens of other issues that have earned him that title.

The anti-Thaksin faction trivializes the atrocities of World War II when they insist on comparing Thaksin to Hitler.

The embassy of Israel wrote a letter to the Bangkok Post (which was published) complaining about the same thing, and it was pretty harsh.

But before I get too off-topic, I think that Associated Press (I found the article on CNN but it was actually written by AP) is correct in that the "crisis" is not really one, especially as the protestors represent less than 1% of the population.

I believe your pre-edited post was much better... by simply posting the CNN/AP article in it's entirety

Thaksin is no Hitler, but clearly is dictator-like in many of his actions.

If you don't think Thailand is in a crisis now, I would invite you to look at things here just a smidgen more closely.

Protestors of any cause in any country at any time in history are "representative" of unknown numbers of others who share the same view but are not in attendance. To simply state that the numbers of attendees represent less than 1% of the population fails to grasp this most basic of concepts regarding protesting. By that logic, it would require 33 million Thais protesting in one location at one time to constitute a "crisis" for the majority of Thais.

Edited March 27, 2006 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

But before I get too off-topic, I think that Associated Press (I found the article on CNN but it was actually written by AP) is correct in that the "crisis" is not really one, especially as the protestors represent less than 1% of the population.

But of course it will be a crisis if the protestors start inciting violence as Sondhi seems to be threatening to.

and likewise, the "current" crisis will certainly worsen if Thaksin incites the violence that HE has threatened to do.

[lukamar]

Protestors of any cause in any country at any time in history are "representative" of unknown numbers of others who share the same view but are not in attendance.

Would that "representative of unknown numbers of others who share the same view but are not in attendance." refer to the Pro-Thaksin protesters, protesting the anti-Thaksin protesters who live 800Km from the protests and can't attend on a daily basis?

[Jai Dee]

PAD partner said peaceful movements for democracy will develop democratic system.

Bhuddarika (พุทธิกา) network, which is a partner in the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD), indicated that peaceful movements for democracy will the develop democratic system.

Coordinator for the Bhuddarika (พุทธิกา) Ms. Woratip Fonwanfai (วรทิพย์ ฝนหว่านไฟ) said that the peaceful move for the premier to step down is another development in the democratic system, which resulted in a good acceptance among society. She said that the demonstrations will show that the aims can be achieved without violence. As for some people want to see results quickly and want to resort to violence, she said that the higher victory is that the network can reach an understanding with the people and make the people join the PAD.

Ms. Woratip said that the officials’ attitude towards the protestors has developed as well. She said that is a response to the peaceful approach of the PAD. She insisted that the protestors did not break any social regulations.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 March 2006

[ColPyat]

and likewise, the "current" crisis will certainly worsen if Thaksin incites the violence that HE has threatened to do.

So far the only ones who have actually been proven to have used violence during the demonstrations were anti Thaksin protestors at the two rallies at The Royal Plaza against the lone Thaksin supporters there.

Sondhi has threatened violence when he insisted to hand his petition not to Army Commander Sonthi's representative, but to him personally late night during the first Royal Plaza rally.

Furthermore, Sondhi and Chamlong personally have once clearly tried to provoce violence by breaking an established procedure of negotiating every move with police. This incident was at the first march to the government house at night at Saphan Pan Fa. While the other demonstration leaders negotiated with the police general in command, Sondhi, Chamlong and their thuggish bodyguards broke through the police line to the surprise of everone in vicinity, including the other PAD leaders. It is only thanks to the cool headed police there that this idiocy did not result in violence.

Don't just listen what they say in public and write on their posters - look at their actions!

[sriracha john]

Protestors of any cause in any country at any time in history are "representative" of unknown numbers of others who share the same view but are not in attendance.

Would that "representative of unknown numbers of others who share the same view but are not in attendance." refer to the Pro-Thaksin protesters, protesting the anti-Thaksin protesters who live 800Km from the protests and can't attend on a daily basis?

Yes, certainly... same as the Anti-Thaksin protestors travelling even further to attend Bangkok rallies.

It's encouraging to find that at least some people understand this rudimentary concept of protesting.

Edited March 27, 2006 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

and likewise, the "current" crisis will certainly worsen if Thaksin incites the violence that HE has threatened to do.

So far the only ones who have actually been proven to have used violence during the demonstrations were anti Thaksin protestors at the two rallies at The Royal Plaza against the lone Thaksin supporters there.

Sondhi has threatened violence when he insisted to hand his petition not to Army Commander Sonthi's representative, but to him personally late night during the first Royal Plaza rally.

Furthermore, Sondhi and Chamlong personally have once clearly tried to provoce violence by breaking an established procedure of negotiating every move with police. This incident was at the first march to the government house at night at Saphan Pan Fa. While the other demonstration leaders negotiated with the police general in command, Sondhi, Chamlong and their thuggish bodyguards broke through the police line to the surprise of everone in vicinity, including the other PAD leaders. It is only thanks to the cool headed police there that this idiocy did not result in violence.

Don't just listen what they say in public and write on their posters - look at their actions!

Yes... indeed... look at one's past actions when determining the potential for violence:

[ColPyat]

Yes... indeed... look at one's past actions when determining the potential for violence:

I am more than aware of the war on drugs. I think i have made more than a few highly critical posts about that mass slaughter.

That does though not exponerate Chamlong and Sondhi. Both have been staunch Thaksin supporters during the killings of the still ongoing war on drugs. Chamlong in addition has everything else than a clean personal record when it comes down to violence.

I would though prefer an answer on my points regarding Sondhi's and Chamlong's readyness for violence other than telling us that Thaksin ordered the killings on the war on drugs. We know that already, we established the fact, and are not in disagreement.

What i have problems though to accept is, that you and many others who openly side with the PAD allow your dislike of Thaksin to blind you to the more uncomfortable realities of the PAD leaders.

[Jai Dee]

Bomb defused at Democrat's HQ

A 1 kg TNT bomb was found Monday at the headquarters of main opposition party, and successfully defused by police before it was set to explode at 10:10 am, the party spokesman said.

The bomb was planted beside the building housing the Democrat Party's headquarters, said Democrat Party spokesman Hong-art Klampaiboon.

Source: The Nation - Breaking News

[ColPyat]

Bomb defused at Democrat's HQ

A 1 kg TNT bomb was found Monday at the headquarters of main opposition party, and successfully defused by police before it was set to explode at 10:10 am, the party spokesman said.

The bomb was planted beside the building housing the Democrat Party's headquarters, said Democrat Party spokesman Hong-art Klampaiboon.

Source: The Nation - Breaking News

Yes, the famous "third hand".

There is always someone who benefits from an escalation of a situation. Problem though is that we rarely find out who the culprit really is.

How many times in the past have we seen that small bombs went off where nobody got seriously injured, and every time when there was a bigger bomb there was enough warning so that it could be defused in time.

It apears that this is part of the established procedure in any conflict in Thailand.