Barisan Revolusi Nasional ( B R N ) Wants Thai Troops Out Of Far South

[webfact]

PEACE TALKS
BRN wants troops out of far South
Nakarin Chinnawornkomol
The Nation



Sets conditions for meeting in KL with Thai officials tomorrow

BANGKOK: -- The Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN) separatist movement has set nine conditions for peace talks in Kuala Lumpur tomorrow with the Thai government, a security source said yesterday.

The first is the Thai government should send only appointed representatives. Second, the Thai side should recognise the identity, race and language of the Melayu people.

Third, Thailand should withdraw its troops from the restive region and invoke its special security laws. Fourth, Thailand should let local security forces take over peacekeeping duties.

Fifth, Thailand should designate the South as a special administrative region. Sixth, Thailand and Malaysia should assign their Prime Minister's Offices to carry on the dialogue to avoid disruption from any change of government.

Seventh, Thailand should ensure that the dialogue proceeds without intervention from the Office of Islamic Countries and the European Union.

Eighth, Thailand should offer amnesty to insurgents and ninth, it should model the southern administration on Aceh in Indonesia.

The National Security Council-led delegation is expected to sit across the table from a five-member team consisting of two representatives from BRN-Coordinate, one each from Pulo and BIPP (Barisan Islam Pembebasan Patani) and Hassan Toyib, who identified himself as the deputy secretary-general of the BRN-Coordinate, and as team leader.

Meanwhile, Yala mayor Pongsak Yingchoncharoen said local residents should have a greater say. "I expect the Thai delegation to convey and consult locals on any issues raised at the meeting," he said.

Pongsak was unaware of any talks on introducing a new form of local government for the region.

In Pattani, police found banners yesterday with the slogan "Peace, Independence and Patani State" at 20 spots in five districts. On Monday, similar banners were detected at nine locations in Nong Chik and two locations in neighbouring Narathiwat.

Despite the talks, the violence continued unabated. Muhammadsata Dosama, 35, former deputy president of the Batong Tambon Administration Organisation, was wounded at 5.30am while riding a motorcycle to check the progress of a local school event. Men waiting in roadside bushes shot at him with an M16 assault rifle, then fled.

Matorhae Madeeyoh, 38, was wounded in a drive-by shooting in the morning on the Pattani-Yala Road at Ban Bukeh Kong in Pattani's Yarang district.


-- The Nation 2013-03-27

[ratcatcher]

And over whose "dead body" are these demands going to happen?

[simple1]

The list is obviously wishful thinking & as in any negotiation you would expect a "fall back" position. One point that I would expect the Thai government not to agree to regards the model for Aceh Self Administration is the implementation of Sharia Law.

[chainarong]

If you agree to those demands you need shooting, BNR are only a small group, there's about a dozen groups in the region, wont they have fun if the troops pull out, they have all been in contact with each other, they all have had input into the demands, they all are smiling like Cheshire cats, disappoint them. Malaysia is not a good partner in these matters, as they will be angling on the side of religion and therefore cannot be trusted.

[simple1]

If you agree to those demands you need shooting, BNR are only a small group, there's about a dozen groups in the region, wont they have fun if the troops pull out, they have all been in contact with each other, they all have had input into the demands, they all are smiling like Cheshire cats, disappoint them. Malaysia is not a good partner in these matters, as they will be angling on the side of religion and therefore cannot be trusted.

There are nine different separatist organisations attending the meeting, it will be a nightmare managing the competing agendas/expectations of the representatives

Edited March 27, 2013 by simple1

[Locationthailand]

Noted they have not taken into account any requests by the Thai Buddhists in the South. Ignorance and arrogant demands by a terrorist group and they are being allowed to negotiate a deal? Backed of course by the Islamic administration looking to penetrate more peaceful countries globally. Pigs can fly too. I am with the US on this - no negotiation with terrorists.

[jonclark]

And what about the people who live there that don't want these conditions??

When terrorists dictate 'negotiated' terms and (if) a government accepts those terms then the precedent has been set.

Violence works!

Who will be held to account for the thousands of deaths - including the 9 year old killed only last week whilst buying an ice cream at his fathers shop?

[WhizBang]

Jeeze, unbelievable demands.

I would tell them all to F off. This is Thailand, Love it, or Leave it.

[nevets]

My Father who was in the Army in India before and during the making of Packistan said , that the Muslems will not stop until the whole world is bathed in Islam.

[webfact]

Thailand set for peace talks with rebels
by Aidan Jones

BANGKOK, March 27, 2013 (AFP) - Thailand and a key rebel group operating in the insurgency-wracked south are set to begin landmark peace talks Thursday aimed at curbing violence that has killed more than 5,500 people in nine years.

The run-up to talks between Thai officials and the Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN) rebel group, to be held in a safehouse in Malaysia's capital Kuala Lumpur, has been overshadowed by ongoing violence in Thailand's southernmost provinces.

Thai negotiators say they want a halt to attacks against civilian targets, so they can feel confident that they are talking to rebel leaders who can control the battle-hardened militants on the ground.

"We expect to see an end to attacks against soft targets, especially bombs that affect innocent people," Paradorn Pattanatabut, the head of Thailand's National Security Council who is expected to attend the talks, told AFP.

He said he was "100 percent" certain Thai authorities would be talking to the right people, but added officials might seek out other rebel negotiators if the violence does not abate soon.

Monks and teachers have been frequent targets for assassination in the restive region while dozens of schools have been torched by militants for their perceived links with the Thai state.

Questions remain over the ability of older militant leaders to rein in attacks by an increasingly ruthless and well-organised younger generation that operates in Thailand's southernmost provinces bordering Malaysia.

"They are divided within the movement" between the "invisible" foot-soldiers and the prominent exiled leaders, according to Gotham Arya, of the Institute of Human Rights and Peace Studies at Mahidol University.

He added that "intra-movement" talks to bridge differences among rebel groups also need to take place if peace is to be won.

A lattice of shadowy militant groups is blamed for the near-daily violence, which includes bombings, ambushes and even beheadings, but little is known about the groups' precise identity and structure.

The BRN, whose Malay name means "National Revolutionary Front", is one of the larger groups held responsible by Thailand for the violence.

There was conflicting information as to whether other rebel organisations would join Thursday's talks.

Thailand will bring a "wish-list of confidence-building measures" to the negotiating table including its call for an end to attacks on civilians, according to Anthony Davis, a Thailand-based security analyst at IHS-Jane's.

"But that's not going to happen in its entirety, as it covers a lot of what the insurgents do militarily and may stretch command and control beyond what can reasonably be expected," he said.

Thailand also "has to come to the party", he said, suggesting it may dangle the release of senior militant prisoners and a relaxation of some emergency laws in exchange for a limited cessation of violence in a specified area.

Malaysia has already hosted negotiations between the Philippines and Muslim separatists in the south of that country, resulting in a landmark agreement in October aimed at burying a decades-long insurgency there.

The current phase of the Thai conflict started in January 2004 and has claimed more than 5,500 lives, mainly in Thailand's three southernmost, Muslim-majority provinces of Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat.

But the roots of the insurgency draw on long-standing Malay nationalist antipathy to rule by Buddhist Thailand, which started when Bangkok annexed the region in 1902.


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2013-03-27

[honzad]

My Father who was in the Army in India before and during the making of Packistan said , that the Muslems will not stop until the whole world is bathed in Islam.

Usual anti-Muslim bigots out in force it seems. Intelligence reflected in the spelling.

[seajae]

yes, lets get the minority terrorist organizations to run thingsm screw the majority of non muslims. They should just go in and shoot them all, that would certainly stop all the crap but no one has the balls to issue the order to exterminate them, maybe we need the daleks.....exterminate....exterminate....

[Halion]

They forgot to add the last condition. "Bend over and take it up the ass"

Let the inmates run the institution ? not in favour, however it can be argued that it would be hard for them to do any worse than the current administration. There will be nothing gained from this dialogue except further rhetoric and confussion and gain saying. Grow a set and take charge of the problem and protect the lives and property of the effected Thai people who have suffered and are still suffering as a direct result of the lack of substance that is being brought to this problem.

Social, envoronmental and logistic problems are only worthy of consideration if they effect Bangkok or Chang Mai.

Go figure.

[Lite Beer]

TRUCE TALK
Thailand to submit three-point proposal : Paradon

BANGKOK: -- Thailand is to submit a three-point proposal to Muslim militant groups at tomorrow's peace talks demanding that they reduce daily hostile activities, stop attacks against innocent targets and cease car bomb attacks in downtown areas, National Security Council chief Gen Paradon Pattanatabutr said Wednesday.

Paradorn and his 15-member team are travelling to Malaysia for first peace talks with militants, who are made up of representatives of more than nine groups. The militants are led by Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN)'s Hasan Tohib.

Paradorn said Malaysia, as a facilitator, has already submitted a list of 15 militants who would be present at the meeting.

"We would submit our proposal before reaching any deal. We would like to see reduction of daily attacks, a stop to violent activities against innocent people and car bombs in downtown areas," he said.

There would be no talk about setting up of Pattani Metropolis as widely speculated, he said.

Meanwhile a civic group in Pattani province has submitted an open letter to the government, advocating support for tomorrow's peace talks.

Representatives of the Patani and Peace-Loving People Network presented the letter to Paradorn at Government House yesterday.

Network core member Hakim Pongtikoh said the open letter reflects the opinions of more than 7,000 people in the far South.

He said the group supports the Thai authorities' peace talks with militant leaders of the BRN on the condition that no agreement with negative impacts on the southern people is signed.

The Thai delegates must not agree to the withdrawal of Thai military troops from the South or an abolition of the Emergency Decree, Hakim said.

Paradorn said proposals from the network will be summarised and forwarded to the Thai delegates.

The general said the prime minister had approved the names of the 15 Thai members taking part in the dialogue, and ruled out a report that ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will be in Malaysia during the peace talks.

Paradorn said the BRN has named five Muslim members for the talks: Hassan Toib, its leader, two BRN Coordinate members, and one each from the Pattani United Liberation Organisation (PULO) and the Barisan Islam Pembangunan Pattani (BIPP).

Some preliminary proposals by the Muslim militant groups are the withdrawal of Thai troops from the South, assigning Malaysia as mediator for the dialogue and amnesty for wrongdoers.

-- The Nation 2013-03-27

[cooked]

My Father who was in the Army in India before and during the making of Packistan said , that the Muslems will not stop until the whole world is bathed in Islam.

Usual anti-Muslim bigots out in force it seems. Intelligence reflected in the spelling.

Muslem is an acceptable alternative spelling od the word. Is this the only argument you guys have?

http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/muslim-group-wipe-christianity-from-face-of-earth/

is an extreme example but I couldn't be bothered to google further. Ben Laden rules, he won, that's for sure.

[simple1]

My Father who was in the Army in India before and during the making of Packistan said , that the Muslems will not stop until the whole world is bathed in Islam.

Usual anti-Muslim bigots out in force it seems. Intelligence reflected in the spelling.

Muslem is an acceptable alternative spelling od the word. Is this the only argument you guys have?

http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/muslim-group-wipe-christianity-from-face-of-earth/

is an extreme example but I couldn't be bothered to google further. Ben Laden rules, he won, that's for sure.

No, it's the posting of the same style of comment in practically very OP topic regards the conflict in the Deep South. The other common unsubstantiated observations such as Thais Malay Muslims want to takeover other Thai provinces a la the domino theory, kill all non Muslims blah blah that does zero for contributing to the debates. If people were to qualify their posts by saying many Arab Islamic extremists hold these views fair enough, but it's no relevance to the current situation except perhaps a few radicalised locals.

Not sure of the intent of your last sentence, but if you're suggesting TV members posts are sympathetic to Al Qaeda ideology, it's laughable.

Edited March 27, 2013 by simple1

[ratcatcher]

My Father who was in the Army in India before and during the making of Packistan said , that the Muslems will not stop until the whole world is bathed in Islam.

Usual anti-Muslim bigots out in force it seems. Intelligence reflected in the spelling.

Muslem is an acceptable alternative spelling od the word. Is this the only argument you guys have?

http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/muslim-group-wipe-christianity-from-face-of-earth/

is an extreme example but I couldn't be bothered to google further. Ben Laden rules, he won, that's for sure.

I'm afraid you are not correct.

1. Moslem is the acceptable alternative spelling of Muslim.

2. Osama's name was Osama Bin Laden and he doesn't rule, he was shark food nearly 2 years ago.

3. Pakistan is the country to the northwest of India.

4. The original poster was steven and his father was probably correct in his opinion regarding Islam.

Edited March 27, 2013 by ratcatcher

[reiltin]

Not sure these BRN reps are the real power brokers,still a channel perhaps...Bombs aren't bigoted and will blow a Buddhist or a Muslim to kingdom come with equal measure.

[Pimay1]

With the Pulo terrorists involved this is going to be a real challenge.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

are there military drones in these theaters yet?

[Nickymaster]

My Father who was in the Army in India before and during the making of Packistan said , that the Muslems will not stop until the whole world is bathed in Islam.

Usual anti-Muslim bigots out in force it seems. Intelligence reflected in the spelling.

Intelligence reflected in the spelling.

Nasty comment

[Pimay1]

My Father who was in the Army in India before and during the making of Packistan said , that the Muslems will not stop until the whole world is bathed in Islam.

Usual anti-Muslim bigots out in force it seems. Intelligence reflected in the spelling.

Intelligence reflected in the spelling.

Nasty comment

The old liberal antic. Attack the messenger instead of discussing the message.

[Pi Sek]

I'm not convinced that the BRN are in control of the insurgency. However, it's good that someone somewhere come up with a list of proposals - it's a start and people in control on all sides can mull over where they're going to draw their line. Then discussions can continue.

My thoughts on the 9 BRN proposals:

1) The first is the Thai government should send only appointed representatives.

Fair enough. The BRN should do the same, or allow other group(s) to join/replace them if it turns out they're not the correct representatives. This is all politics and, the BRN surely have plenty of enemies local to them, who probably have a lot of collective local clout.

2) The Thai side should recognise the identity, race and language of the Melayu people.

Fair enough.

3) Thailand should withdraw its troops from the restive region and invoke its special security laws.

Fair enough, in time. Gauge how much time by progress in terms of reduced violence.

4) Thailand should let local security forces take over peacekeeping duties.

A handover from troops to local security forces - see #3 above.

5) Thailand should designate the South as a special administrative region.

No more special than to any other administrative region. They should have the freedom to make their state theirs, but not to do so without recourse to the Law.

6) Thailand and Malaysia should assign their Prime Minister's Offices to carry on the dialogue to avoid disruption from any change of government.

Yes, make a specific office responsible but the Ministry of Defence, Ministry of Interior, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Commerce Ministry all need to have input on decisions. Also, Thailand's PM changes too often for a PM's office to have any real impact. I would leave it with the MoFA.

7) Thailand should ensure that the dialogue proceeds without intervention from the Office of Islamic Countries and the European Union.

Fair enough regarding intervention, but specify what exactly "intervention" means.

8) Thailand should offer amnesty to insurgents.

No. They, the BRN (or insurgency) and Malaysia, should emphasise the damage that these people are making to regional progress, and declare an all-out propaganda war on them. Identifying them, linking them to the drug trade, groups of armed soldiers making arrests, all live on locally-administered Malay language state-run reality TV. And of course shooting them when things get hot, with live commentary from an imam talking about the shame to his beloved state and religion.

9) Thailand should model the southern administration on Aceh in Indonesia.

No. They should allow the three provinces to administer themselves at municipal level as Patani State, within the the Thai Law and constitution. Some archaic Laws might have to be revised in the interests of the country.

[simple1]

are there military drones in these theaters yet?

So far Thai government has made it very clear it does not want any foreign government involvement in military operations in the Deep South. As US personnel operate the armed drones highly unlikely, unless some secret arrangements were made as with Saudi Arabia permitting facilities for drones to attack targets in Yemen. However why would you wish to escalate the violence using drones and motivate the armed militants to start targeting Westerners in Thailand, that to date has not occurred.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

are there military drones in these theaters yet?

So far Thai government has made it very clear it does not want any foreign government involvement in military operations in the Deep South. As US personnel operate the armed drones highly unlikely, unless some secret arrangements were made as with Saudi Arabia permitting facilities for drones to attack targets in Yemen. However why would you wish to escalate the violence using drones and motivate the armed militants to start targeting Westerners in Thailand, that to date has not occurred.

they have surveillance drones capability to potentially identify the people who are hurting other people and track various suspects to planning and weapon production and storage locations.

I just wonder if they are using them. They should be if they are not and countries like the US could supply and train Thai personnel to use them effectively.

Edited March 27, 2013 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[ratcatcher]

My Father who was in the Army in India before and during the making of Packistan said , that the Muslems will not stop until the whole world is bathed in Islam.

your father done a good job in educating you.

"your father done a good job in educating you" Oops

Your father did a good job educating you. (actually it was probably just a friendly father to son chat? No?

[simple1]

are there military drones in these theaters yet?

So far Thai government has made it very clear it does not want any foreign government involvement in military operations in the Deep South. As US personnel operate the armed drones highly unlikely, unless some secret arrangements were made as with Saudi Arabia permitting facilities for drones to attack targets in Yemen. However why would you wish to escalate the violence using drones and motivate the armed militants to start targeting Westerners in Thailand, that to date has not occurred.

they have surveillance drones capability to potentially identify the people who are hurting other people and track various suspects to planning and weapon production and storage locations.

I just wonder if they are using them. They should be if they are not and countries like the US could supply and train Thai personnel to use them effectively.

True, but as far as I am aware US will not permit foreign government forces to operate the equipment; could be wrong. Again the high risk is US being seen as actively engaging in the Deep South & by extension escalation & leakage of violence outside of the affected provinces into tourist areas.

Thai military have Special Forces, what are they doing right now for reconnaissance & intelligence gathering? Would have thought lot better to use their capabilities given the terrain. Various reports say their are Thai death squads operating in the area so someone must be identifying targets. Seems to be confirmed with the nearly daily murders of Muslim town/village leaders.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

are there military drones in these theaters yet?

So far Thai government has made it very clear it does not want any foreign government involvement in military operations in the Deep South. As US personnel operate the armed drones highly unlikely, unless some secret arrangements were made as with Saudi Arabia permitting facilities for drones to attack targets in Yemen. However why would you wish to escalate the violence using drones and motivate the armed militants to start targeting Westerners in Thailand, that to date has not occurred.

they have surveillance drones capability to potentially identify the people who are hurting other people and track various suspects to planning and weapon production and storage locations.

I just wonder if they are using them. They should be if they are not and countries like the US could supply and train Thai personnel to use them effectively.

True, but as far as I am aware US will not permit foreign government forces to operate the equipment; could be wrong. Again the high risk is US being seen as actively engaging in the Deep South & by extension escalation & leakage of violence outside of the affected provinces into tourist areas.

Thai military have Special Forces, what are they doing right now for reconnaissance & intelligence gathering? Would have thought lot better to use their capabilities given the terrain. Various reports say their are Thai death squads operating in the area so someone must be identifying targets. Seems to be confirmed with the nearly daily murders of Muslim town/village leaders.

There are a lot of copycat drones and non US drone suppliers out there.

I think your referring to armed drones which have US restrictions.

Just curious.

It's sure a mess so interesting to follow in a train wreck kind of way.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

are there military drones in these theaters yet?

So far Thai government has made it very clear it does not want any foreign government involvement in military operations in the Deep South. As US personnel operate the armed drones highly unlikely, unless some secret arrangements were made as with Saudi Arabia permitting facilities for drones to attack targets in Yemen. However why would you wish to escalate the violence using drones and motivate the armed militants to start targeting Westerners in Thailand, that to date has not occurred.

they have surveillance drones capability to potentially identify the people who are hurting other people and track various suspects to planning and weapon production and storage locations.

I just wonder if they are using them. They should be if they are not and countries like the US could supply and train Thai personnel to use them effectively.

yeah and then we could get the yanks to start a guantanamo bay style facility here in Thailand and torture the thai muslims and burn their books and talk peace all along.. good idea!

don't be troll. I was asking an innocent question about surveillance drones.

Are you against accountability?

[ZhouZhou]

are there military drones in these theaters yet?

So far Thai government has made it very clear it does not want any foreign government involvement in military operations in the Deep South. As US personnel operate the armed drones highly unlikely, unless some secret arrangements were made as with Saudi Arabia permitting facilities for drones to attack targets in Yemen. However why would you wish to escalate the violence using drones and motivate the armed militants to start targeting Westerners in Thailand, that to date has not occurred.

they have surveillance drones capability to potentially identify the people who are hurting other people and track various suspects to planning and weapon production and storage locations.

I just wonder if they are using them. They should be if they are not and countries like the US could supply and train Thai personnel to use them effectively.

True, but as far as I am aware US will not permit foreign government forces to operate the equipment; could be wrong. Again the high risk is US being seen as actively engaging in the Deep South & by extension escalation & leakage of violence outside of the affected provinces into tourist areas.

Thai military have Special Forces, what are they doing right now for reconnaissance & intelligence gathering? Would have thought lot better to use their capabilities given the terrain. Various reports say their are Thai death squads operating in the area so someone must be identifying targets. Seems to be confirmed with the nearly daily murders of Muslim town/village leaders.

Israel is the global leader in drone technology and also the global leader in export.

so it hasn't to be US technology or some secret technology that isn't freely available on the market.