Maggie Thatcher Is Dead.

[Somtamme]

Tony Benn - the issue is Thatcher

[KarenBravo]

The motto of the miners was "a fair day's work for a fair week's pay".

[Neeranam]

All I really remember was she using Scotland as a guinea-pig for that stupid poll-tax. That put me off her for good but RIP.

You need to read 7by7 excellent post No 82,this is a very good example why in fact the so-called poll tax was a good and fair tax. Unfortunately the parasites did not like it, they then got their own way,thus leading to the economic mess created by those scotsmen Blair and Brown.

I read the post and disagree. The poll tax was only good for the rich.

My main point was no the concept of the poll tax but the fact that she gave it us(Scotland) a year before England/Wales.

[Cardiff1963]

Definitely be having a couple of beers tonight.

[jombom]

IMO she was a bully ---- her method of negotiation seemed to be my way or no way. Reminds me of somebody in Nth Korea today.

[pitrevie]

You know what really surprises me about the comments and actions here and in the Uk is how much baggage people have been carrying around for over 30 years so they can release all their hate or perceived rights and wrongs. No one can go back and change things, nowhere is perfect, but the world today is better than it was when she came to power, it was better when she left number 10 than when she went in, unless of course you would prefer the likes of Arthur Scargill to be still making demands on the country, Arthur you will remember who recently took his own Union to court overa grace and favour flat, a true socialist to the last, a scrounger of the first order and he still has many followers. I am glad she took him and his bunch of flying thugs and put them in their place ( I could have used stronger language here I am being restrained).

I look forward to the funeral next week and the white ensign will proudly from the balcony of my house.

Yes things are far better now that the banks are running the country. Thatcher convinced us that all we had to do was defeat the enemy within and everything would be far better. Now we can pour billions into the banking system so that they can sustain their huge payouts come hail or sunshine. I was no admirer of Scargill but compared to his flying thugs the bankers set free by Thatcher have caused far more pain and suffering than ever he could have imagined.

[Neeranam]

You know what really surprises me about the comments and actions here and in the Uk is how much baggage people have been carrying around for over 30 years so they can release all their hate or perceived rights and wrongs. No one can go back and change things, nowhere is perfect, but the world today is better than it was when she came to power, it was better when she left number 10 than when she went in, unless of course you would prefer the likes of Arthur Scargill to be still making demands on the country, Arthur you will remember who recently took his own Union to court overa grace and favour flat, a true socialist to the last, a scrounger of the first order and he still has many followers. I am glad she took him and his bunch of flying thugs and put them in their place ( I could have used stronger language here I am being restrained).

I look forward to the funeral next week and the white ensign will proudly from the balcony of my house.

Nonsensical post.

Notice how the white ensign has the st george cross on it - yes the English flag. Will you be singing swing low sweet chariots too? Thatcher was an auld witch who cared only for the English(not UK) rich and privileged. She was a war criminal(Belgrano etc) also, who got off Scot-free(more than the Scots did!)

[HeavyDrinker]

You know what really surprises me about the comments and actions here and in the Uk is how much baggage people have been carrying around for over 30 years so they can release all their hate or perceived rights and wrongs. No one can go back and change things, nowhere is perfect, but the world today is better than it was when she came to power, it was better when she left number 10 than when she went in, unless of course you would prefer the likes of Arthur Scargill to be still making demands on the country, Arthur you will remember who recently took his own Union to court overa grace and favour flat, a true socialist to the last, a scrounger of the first order and he still has many followers. I am glad she took him and his bunch of flying thugs and put them in their place ( I could have used stronger language here I am being restrained).

I look forward to the funeral next week and the white ensign will proudly from the balcony of my house.

The snag was that she replaced the Union Barons, by selling everything she could to her own Robber Baron cronies who then proceeded - as predicted by the unions - to sell off British Industry and Manufacturing to the highest bidder and destroyed it far quicker than even the Unions predicted. Many of these (or their descendants) still make millions from what wasn't hers to sell in the first place.

I don't think many have been carrying baggage around for 30 years. Many have been spouting off about it continually and trying to put it right.

Her real master stroke was courting Murdoch and allowing him to manipulate the media for her, but don't get me started on that one...

[OxfordWill]

Coming from a military family I was told she was responsible for sending many good people to their deaths in the Falklands.

I also know that she made tough decisions that were probably necessary for the good of the country but at the unfortunate expense of many peoples livelihoods.

A divisive character, before my time, my father also remembers her for making the 80s generation a "self interested" one.

I am sure the british tv channels will have documentary after documentary about her next.

[Commander Tamson]

Why do all the supporters of Thatcher only mention Arthur Scargill. YES he was a giant self important prick who badly needed to be put in his place - but his own members should have seen to that. Unfortunately if you were a minor and not a Scargill supporter you were a scab and mates you knew for 20 years would spit on you, and your wife and kids, as they passed you on the road. BUT the state she left Britain in generally was very little or nothing to do with the miners.

But the world's population however is made of 95% sheep - I expect most of you watched the recent, totally fictional account of her life made by Hollywood, and came out of the cinema, maybe thinking, I can't remember that bit, but hey it must true - God I loved that woman!

Baah Baah Baah

[khunJeroen]

She was a tough lady but not a lady anyone could love as a person. She dead, nobody will cry, just politic history,

[7by7]

All I really remember was she using Scotland as a guinea-pig for that stupid poll-tax. That put me off her for good but RIP.

You need to read 7by7 excellent post No 82,this is a very good example why in fact the so-called poll tax was a good and fair tax. Unfortunately the parasites did not like it, they then got their own way,thus leading to the economic mess created by those scotsmen Blair and Brown.

I read the post and disagree. The poll tax was only good for the rich.

My main point was no the concept of the poll tax but the fact that she gave it us(Scotland) a year before England/Wales.

Only good for the rich!!!!!!!! You joke, surely?

People like my neighbour who had been struggling to pay their rates had their bill reduced. Her widow's pension may have been enough, just, to put her above the income limit for state benefits, but she was by no means rich!

People on low incomes who had previously had their rates reduced, down to zero if necessary, had the same reductions on their poll tax.

Read the post again, and then explain how the poll tax was unfair when compared to the rates which preceded it and the council tax which followed.

Tell me how it is fair for a widow to pay the same as 6 working people.

Pre poll tax myself, two brothers, and my sister all lived with my parents. We all worked, and my father paid the rates.

Six working people paying the same in total as the one retired widow living next door.

How was that fair?

During the poll tax our household paid more in total; but the 6 of us each paid the same as the widow next door, who paid less than she had before.

Yet some people say that was unfair!

Unfortunately Thatcher did back down on this and so the council tax came into being, the rates by a different name, and we went back to the pre poll tax situation of 6 working people paying in total the same as one retired widow.

How is that fair?

There were only two things wrong with the poll tax;

1. It was introduced in Scotland first when it should have been introduced throughout the UK at the same time.
2. It was abandoned.

[tmd5855]

To smash the unions she shut down the mines, the steelworks and the shipyards, she devastated communities and lifes.

North Sea oil revenues came along and paid for the social security bill for her "madness". Opinion polls had her as the most despised PM in history. Then the Argies invaded the Falklands, she were saved.

But if her FO minister Carrington had heeded the warnings from the B.A Embassy, if John Nott defense minister had not announced the scrapping of HMS Endurance and the sale of the HMS Ark Royal to Australia. The Argies would not of invaded, they said so after the war??

EU rules allow a country to subsidise one form of energy.
The French went for nuclear, the Germans went for coal, the UK went for??? Yes, nuclear...

The Tories got into power in 1979, we then had 15+% interest rates which killed the economy.
Company revenue dropped 35%.
Unemployment went from 5% to 12%, mostly skilled.
Took 18 quarters before the UK GDP reached the level of 79/80, yes, four and a half years for the economy to get back to where it were before the Tories got in. North Sea oil production filled this hole.

Steelworks in my hometown (Motherwell) a modern and efficient plant, closed, dismantled and sold to the Chinese

North Sea oil revenues kept the UK afloat, while a pursuit of de-industrialisation and conversion from a mixed/balanced economy to a service economy. The effects are still easily visible, today?
When oil revenues dropped and they needed money, selling council houses, brought in lots of stamp duty money into the coffers and made more people debtors. Selling off State industries brought in a lot of money to the coffers. Then the money started to run out, VAT, goes up, many divisive policies brought in, the rest..................

The US is now out of recession, the battered Eurozone countries (Northern) GDP is picking up.
The UK faces a "triple dip" recession, already lost the triple "AAA" status, over concerns were the Tory led coalition is taking the economy.

A Channel 4 documentary called the "The wasted windfall" dealt with the oil money from the North Sea. One comment were. "Whoever won the 79 election would be in power for the forseeable future"
It could and should have been used to improve living standards and build more infrastructure i.e. modernise state industries, mines, shipyards, steelworks and railways. But instead closed them down. Oil tax reciepts paid for the social security bills. Loss of income tax and NI receipts were a huge loss to the exchequer, then you add to that loss, the cost of social payments.

Look at how Norway and the Shetland islands have handled their oil money, you then realise that Thatcher pursued a personal and political agenda, not an economic one.

Dealing with the unions could of been done via the law, as the below are now in force. i.e
1) Secondary picketing outlawed.
2) Ballot box not show of hands.
3) Majority of members not a majority of votes.

No Falklands war and no north sea oil revenues, would of meant no Thatcherism. The UK would be a different place

One last point.
The Falkland islander claim by the Tories were British, were a sham?? How??
To reduce the amount of people with UK passports coming to the UK. With the handover of Hong Kong coming into view, they changed the right of residency for Hong Kong, Chinese who had UK passports, to that of Dependency.
The Falklands were owned by the Coalite Group, a private company and the islands were classed as a dependency with the Islanders not having an automatic right to UK residence.

Thatcher told lies......... She were a bad person for the majority of the working class.

I have done well from Thatcher, her party and her policies. But I have a social conscience for those at the bottom.

Edited April 9, 2013 by tmd5855

[pitrevie]

Well at least now that issue of who runs the country has been resolved, now we know for certain, the banks. Scargill could not have dreamt in his wildest dreams of inflicting so much damage on the country. Thank goodness Maggie came along and got rid of all those regulations.

Rubbish.The banks were quite well regulated under Thatcher.The light touch regulation of the financial sector happened under Blair and Brown.Indeed they boasted about it.To be fair the Tories went along with it but by then Thatcher had long gone.

De-regulation of the financial markets started under Thatcher. If you recall there were rock solid institutions called Building Societies with sensible lending policies. Also rock solid Mutual Societies almost all of whom went the way of the Halifax one of the most rock solid of all. What an achievement.

Is the wrong answer!

Big Bang in the City did start around 1985 although the effect of it on mutualisation was minimal, only a few building societies turned into banks, the majority stayed as building societies albeit many of them merged.

"Only a few building societies" really! Can you give us the names of those that merged and still remain as Building Societies. How about some of the biggest like Halifax, Abbey, Woolwich are they still building societies merged or otherwise? I can only think of the Nationwide which thankfully didn't act in the same lemming like manner. These were organizations with very sensible lending policies who then decided once de-regulation came along that they should become banks and the bigger the better with mergers, buyouts. We had the ludicrous situation where Building Societies were buying chains of estate agents only to sell them a short time later at a huge loss.

[sunnitimes]

When I read the news I knew that the forum would be split on their opinion and more than likely a number of members who had direct experience with Maggie's policies would speak out. As a Yank brought over to the UK for the electricity privatization, I remember that at the time there was controversy as to whether her policies were helpful or harmful. Good, bad or indifferent, It is for sure that what she started has lived on far beyond her terms of office. She was an agent of change at a time when change was needed. History will judge whether the change was in the right direction.

[IMA_FARANG]

Does anybody remember who was Prime Minister when the U.K military wanted to cut expenses and decided to sell desert uniforms to Iraq to save money?

The Prime Minister approved of the idea because it was obvious that the U.K. would never need to fight another war in the desert.

Anything for money.

So Maggie Thatcher approved the sale of severaal thousand desert camoflogue uniforms to the Iraqi defense forces.

Later they were used in combat against U.K forces in the first Iraqi war. (Kuwait).

Just one of the decisions Baggie Maggie made.

P.S. Quote from, Maggie when she first heard about the Falklands:

"Oh, good, a war. It's so much more exciting than all those boring cabinet meetings about the enviroment and such topics""

P.P.S. Don't even get me started about the Strategic Space Defense Initiative, a mu;ti billion dollar Laser based Space Defense system that fortunately was never approved ( Also Known As Ronnie's Ray Guns)

Edited April 9, 2013 by IMA_FARANG

[pitrevie]

The motto of the miners was "a fair day's work for a fair week's pay".

Yep my father was a miner, he retired early with emphysema and some huge payout which kept our family in the lap of luxury for the rest of our lives. However it was still a reduction in our livings standards from the days when I recall him arriving home worn out carrying the sacks of money he was earning at the time.

[Exsexyman]

Margaret Thatcher, the only true working class Prime Minister that Britain ever had. The embodiment of duty, industry and bravery. There will never be a finer person to grace that office.

Another one trying to re write history. "True working class"! Don't be silly. She was very much middle class, probably upper middle class. Her father owned one of the biggest shops in Grantham, and was the Tory Lord Mayor for many years.

As for the posters who are saying she advanced the cause of feminism and opened the door for the advancement of women, the facts show that this is utter codswallop and the opposite is the case. During the whole time she was Prime Minister she did not appoint one woman to her cabinet. Not one! The closest she came was to appoint the unelected Lady Young to the position of Leader of the House of Lords, pretty much a non job.

This woman was reviled by millions across the UK, as the reaction to her death in towns, cities, and communities showed last night. The idea of a ceremonial funeral with full military honours will be abhorrent to at least half of England and most of Scotland, where she was especially hated, and has the potential to be a fiasco. The policing and security for such an event will be a nightmare, God knows what it will cost, both in monetary and civil liberty terms. The City of London will be in lockdown.

The next few days will at least give the lie to the fashionable view that the BBC is a 'lefty' organization, watching the coverage yesterday was quite nauseating in its one sided view of her legacy. Nick Robinson,( Political Editor), was basically acting as a PR man for the Conservative Party, so complete was his sycophancy. At one point he even started going on about how sexy she was,( i kid you not). It would not have looked out of place in North Korea. An online petition objecting to a state funeral was shut down after receiving tens of thousands of signatures in a couple of hours. I wonder why, and by whom? Dissent is not allowed, and will certainly not be shown by the BBC, as we shall find out on the day of this 'Ceremonial Funeral', when there will be hundreds of alternative 'Ceremonies' across the UK.

This woman divided the UK like no other, and should be afforded the same funeral as previous Prime Ministers like Heath, Callaghan and Wilson. No more, no less.

[7by7]

It is obvious that people have very different views of her and her legacy.

As i said in my first post on the subject, some of her policies I agreed with, some i didn't.

What is interesting is that in the pictures of various 'street parties' shown on the news this morning, BBC, ITN, SKY etc., nearly every single particiapent was both too young to have even been alive when she was Prime Minister and also carrying a placard provided by the Socialist Worker party

In other words, the usual Socialist Worker rent a mob who will turn up at any demonstration they consider to be anti establishment; the usual Socialist Worker rent a mob whose sole aim is to try and cause violence at those demonstrations.

The same Socialist Worker rent a mob that Scargill used to intimidate the miners.

[Neeranam]

""Thatcher told lies......... She were a bad person for the majority of the working class.

I have done well from Thatcher, her party and her policies. But I have a social conscience for those at the bottom.""

Excellent post - the above really sums her up - anyone that liked her was purely for selfish financial interests.

[chiang mai]

Is the wrong answer!

De-regulation of the financial markets started under Thatcher. If you recall there were rock solid institutions called Building Societies with sensible lending policies. Also rock solid Mutual Societies almost all of whom went the way of the Halifax one of the most rock solid of all. What an achievement.

Big Bang in the City did start around 1985 although the effect of it on mutualisation was minimal, only a few building societies turned into banks, the majority stayed as building societies albeit many of them merged.

"Only a few building societies" really! Can you give us the names of those that merged and still remain as Building Societies. How about some of the biggest like Halifax, Abbey, Woolwich are they still building societies merged or otherwise? I can only think of the Nationwide which thankfully didn't act in the same lemming like manner. These were organizations with very sensible lending policies who then decided once de-regulation came along that they should become banks and the bigger the better with mergers, buyouts. We had the ludicrous situation where Building Societies were buying chains of estate agents only to sell them a short time later at a huge loss.

My business was based around building societies for several years in the 80's and early 90's and as I recall at the time there were some 56 of them in existence although I may be incorrect. Today there are apprently only about 47 according to wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_building_societies_in_the_United_Kingdom. Nationwide did absorb half a dozen societies that had financial problems but folks forget that the majority of societies are small local mutual lenders.

As far as demutualisation is concerned: there were about ten societies that became banks and most are famous names so my numbers above seem broadly correct, the full list is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_society

[pitrevie]

When I read the news I knew that the forum would be split on their opinion and more than likely a number of members who had direct experience with Maggie's policies would speak out. As a Yank brought over to the UK for the electricity privatization, I remember that at the time there was controversy as to whether her policies were helpful or harmful. Good, bad or indifferent, It is for sure that what she started has lived on far beyond her terms of office. She was an agent of change at a time when change was needed. History will judge whether the change was in the right direction.

That was probably the biggest con job ever to be pulled on the British Public. She convinced people to buy something that already belonged to them and then used the proceeds to finance the tax cuts most of which was directed at those already well off. We were told at the time that all the shares were going to be owned by Syd but they were quickly snapped up by Francois and Manuel who now own the British power companies.

[7by7]

""Thatcher told lies......... She were a bad person for the majority of the working class.

I have done well from Thatcher, her party and her policies. But I have a social conscience for those at the bottom.""

Excellent post - the above really sums her up - anyone that liked her was purely for selfish financial interests.

Rubbish.

For example, the poll tax made me as an individual worse off; but I still supported it for the reasons previously given.

But you seem to be ignoring that post and the questions I asked you in it.

Edited to remove double quote; again!

Edited April 9, 2013 by 7by7

[pitrevie]

Is the wrong answer!

De-regulation of the financial markets started under Thatcher. If you recall there were rock solid institutions called Building Societies with sensible lending policies. Also rock solid Mutual Societies almost all of whom went the way of the Halifax one of the most rock solid of all. What an achievement.

Big Bang in the City did start around 1985 although the effect of it on mutualisation was minimal, only a few building societies turned into banks, the majority stayed as building societies albeit many of them merged.

"Only a few building societies" really! Can you give us the names of those that merged and still remain as Building Societies. How about some of the biggest like Halifax, Abbey, Woolwich are they still building societies merged or otherwise? I can only think of the Nationwide which thankfully didn't act in the same lemming like manner. These were organizations with very sensible lending policies who then decided once de-regulation came along that they should become banks and the bigger the better with mergers, buyouts. We had the ludicrous situation where Building Societies were buying chains of estate agents only to sell them a short time later at a huge loss.

My business was based around building societies for several years in the 80's and early 90's and as I recall at the time there were some 56 of them in existence although I may be incorrect. Today there are apprently only about 47 according to wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_building_societies_in_the_United_Kingdom. Nationwide did absorb half a dozen societies that had financial problems but folks forget that the majority of societies are small local mutual lenders.

As far as demutualisation is concerned: there were about ten societies that became banks and most are famous names so my numbers above seem broadly correct, the full list is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_society

The last time I was in London I walked down the high street where there were a string of building societies, only one was left the Nationwide. Ones such as Halifax, Abbey, Woolwich were the mainstay of the housing market something that Thatcher was always trumpeting on about. In those days they had sensible lending policies then they all merged, became banks, merged with other banks and suddenly common sense went out of the window. It was a struggle to get a loan, things such as earnings a certain deposit level was required the value of the property what happened? How many Mutuals became banks again these were organizations that encouraged thrift and long term savings until instant greed took over.

[chiang mai]

Is the wrong answer!

De-regulation of the financial markets started under Thatcher. If you recall there were rock solid institutions called Building Societies with sensible lending policies. Also rock solid Mutual Societies almost all of whom went the way of the Halifax one of the most rock solid of all. What an achievement.

Big Bang in the City did start around 1985 although the effect of it on mutualisation was minimal, only a few building societies turned into banks, the majority stayed as building societies albeit many of them merged.

"Only a few building societies" really! Can you give us the names of those that merged and still remain as Building Societies. How about some of the biggest like Halifax, Abbey, Woolwich are they still building societies merged or otherwise? I can only think of the Nationwide which thankfully didn't act in the same lemming like manner. These were organizations with very sensible lending policies who then decided once de-regulation came along that they should become banks and the bigger the better with mergers, buyouts. We had the ludicrous situation where Building Societies were buying chains of estate agents only to sell them a short time later at a huge loss.

My business was based around building societies for several years in the 80's and early 90's and as I recall at the time there were some 56 of them in existence although I may be incorrect. Today there are apprently only about 47 according to wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_building_societies_in_the_United_Kingdom. Nationwide did absorb half a dozen societies that had financial problems but folks forget that the majority of societies are small local mutual lenders.

As far as demutualisation is concerned: there were about ten societies that became banks and most are famous names so my numbers above seem broadly correct, the full list is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_society

The last time I was in London I walked down the high street where there were a string of building societies, only one was left the Nationwide. Ones such as Halifax, Abbey, Woolwich were the mainstay of the housing market something that Thatcher was always trumpeting on about. In those days they had sensible lending policies then they all merged, became banks, merged with other banks and suddenly common sense went out of the window. It was a struggle to get a loan, things such as earnings a certain deposit level was required the value of the property what happened? How many Mutuals became banks again these were organizations that encouraged thrift and long term savings until instant greed took over.

Again, there were 57 building societies, 10 became banks and today there are 47 societies, the landscape has not changed massively as a result of demutualisation although generally it has been proven to be a bad deal for most who did convert to a bank.

[Ace of Pop]

Most of her detractors are here with a pension, and a truck.

[MAJIC]

Posters under the age of 40 years old making negative comments about Margaret Thatchers time as PM are, for the most part, simply not credible.

So would that include the Positive comments as well?

[Thaddeus]

Most of her detractors are here with a pension, and a truck.

Some could be in The Pub nursing half a pint of warm Bitter and calling each other 'brother'

[chiang mai]

Posters under the age of 40 years old making negative comments about Margaret Thatchers time as PM are, for the most part, simply not credible.

So would that include the Positive comments as well?

Interestingly we tend not to see many positive comments from the younger crowd whilst negative comments from them appear in spades. I guess it's a bit like the boomer bashing trend, it's fashionable for the younger crowd to bash boomers, the alternative for that group is to say nothing. So, the answer to your question must be, no.

[chiang mai]

And this from one of our UK dailies:

Taiwanese station CTi Cable flashed a headline saying 'Margaret Thatcher Dies Of Stroke' over a clip showing Queen Elizabeth II shaking hands with members of the public. Meanwhile a station called Channel 5, owned by Thailand's army, illustrated their report of Lady Thatcher's death with an image of actress Meryl Streep, who played the Iron Lady in a film of the same name. TV bosses later apologised and promised to 'improve' their work in future.