Is Thailand Changing..or Have You Changed?

[rct99q]

Just read a topic on a person moving back to the UK because they were tired and Thailand is not the same as it was 10 years ago. As a relative new comer to Thailand (4 years going on 5) I have not really noticed "major" changes. Compared to other countries I have lived and worked in and the lifestyle I enjoy here my quality of life is better in Thailand.

However one is never sure of what the next 5 years will bring. Just curious if the longer term residents or visitors could add HOW Thailand has changed (positive or negative) and is it really major changes in the country or on how YOU look at life 10 or 20 years later.

Simply 20 years ago was Thailand that much different then today or are you looking at Thailand through eyes that are now 20 years older (and wiser).

[FunFon]

There has certainly been much wider and deeper penetration into upcountry areas of knowledge about the outside world.

It is also much more difficult for country people to live in the mostly-cashless lifestyle that used to be possible.

Therefore higher percentages of working age people have abandoned the villages other than visits back at Song Kran, and material measures of "standard of living" have been rising with the workers sending more money home, building nicer houses etc.

With the negative side effect (from our POV) that the local lovelies have a greatly inflated view of their value to fat old farangs.

The fact that I'm older has probably contributed to that inflation rate, but very few families are willing to let their lasses go even to young hansum men for a handful of beads anymore.

[rubberduck]

There is just a total lack of positive developments, all I mentioned was it's becoming one big mess. The attitude of the people, twisted minds, lack of responsibility and dignity, the cowboy government, the traffic, but also too many western dropouts who brought their arrogant mentality into Thailand (hence the tougher visa rules etc.) Really the most joyful time in Thailand was in the last century, now too many lowlife and bs.

Edited April 9, 2013 by rubberduck

[soi41]

There is just a total lack of positive developments, all I mentioned was it's becoming one big mess. The attitude of the people, twisted minds, lack of responsibility and dignity, the cowboy government, the traffic, but also too many western dropouts who brought their arrogant mentality into Thailand (hence the tougher visa rules etc.) Really the most joyful time in Thailand was in the last century, now too many lowlife and bs.

Which your post just confirmed!

[naboo]

In Chiang Mai, city life is changing. More people are choosing the malls as places to hang out rather than the local tesabaan party.

In the countryside, people are still working the land. But they're getting richer. Houses are being rebuilt, cars are being bought.

For me it has changed. I speak more Thai, my life is less centered around other western friends and more time is spent amongst new Thai relatives.

Things change, we change. The times they are a-Changing.

[chonabot]

I think if you work here for a while and meet people in different walks of life you will have a good idea of any changes.

The world keeps on moving and we have the choice to move or complain/leave.

For those who have a lot of time and can see every microcosm of change - they will probably be better suited to a time capsule.

Our home countries have changed and, for better or worse, that is what they call progress.

We keep hearing about how Melbourne has been voted the best city in the world to live in, for the second year running

But I know at least 5 people from that place who tell me ' it's not what it used to be'

The Human condition.

I wonder if the soi dogs and cats have similar diatribes

[driedmango]

The whole world is changing, every forest is being hacked away to nothing, big corps taking over countries, weather changing....

There is changes everywhere, China, Thailand, Europe...

One thing is for sure, everything will be different everywhere in a year... even the moon or the stars will change in 1 year to some degree.

This board is full of old dug in thailand people, they don't see the beauty the same way.

For me, I love traveling in undeveloped places for short time, what i like that has changed about thailand ?

1. The medical system is much more the quality of a western country

2. the roads are better

3.cars pollute less than they used to

4. Cities like Chiang mai have a lively modern feel to them

Things that have changed here have changed everywhere...

You should see my hometown in Canada !

There is places opening up, new ones that might not include hookers and cheap drinks, and respect for douche bags with a wallent, like some posters here like, but there is a whole culture of the world coming together with a common cause of peace and unity, it's fun, has electronic and live music, live paintings, and whole new societies based on different things... www.thebloomseries.com

[FunFon]

There is just a total lack of positive developments, all I mentioned was it's becoming one big mess. The attitude of the people, twisted minds, lack of responsibility and dignity, the cowboy government, the traffic, but also too many western dropouts who brought their arrogant mentality into Thailand (hence the tougher visa rules etc.) Really the most joyful time in Thailand was in the last century, now too many lowlife and bs.

-

I think all of the above "observations" are much more the result of the writer's POV changing and nothing at all to do with any objectively confirmed changes over recent decades.

Other than the increase in lower-end western expats, certainly true and certainly negative for both Thailand and the more respectable farang, but IMO not really that big a deal, they can get rid of us easily at the drop of a hat whenever they decide to go to the trouble, fix the issue sharpish no problem.

But they probably won't bother, helps the growing more successful parts of Thai society feel superior.

[Ulysses G.]

Of course it's changing, but I like it better than two decades ago. Life is more comfortable. There is a lot more to do - plenty of Western music, TV shows, films, reading material and decent non-Thai restaurants.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[thequietman]

The singular thing that saddens me is the massive obsession with wealth and trinkets. I didn't really notice it 11 years ago when I arrived but I suppose then, I was looking at everything with rose coloured spectacles.

Even in my local village its all about "show", something that wasn't predominant when I arrived here. There seems to be an attitude throughout the majority that "F##k you if I,m alright" and it has changed the way I look at people now.

It has also changed me for the worst I fear, as I seem to be more and more distant from the values I was taught growing up. I would be reluctant to stop and help someone at an accident scene in Thailand. At home this thought would never cross my mind. I seem to be numb to the constant corruption and greed and now when I hear or see something that is totally ludicrous and is way beyond the scope of reasonable, I find my self saying "mai pen rai" and to be honest thinking like this goes against everything I was taught.

I have adopted the attitude "you can't change it so why bother" but it does unsettle me.

Money and wealth seems to be the end goal here. It wasn't predominant in my village all those years back but it sure as hell is here and alive today.

[keemapoot]

Don't see as many elephants on the roads...rarely now...

[FunFon]

The singular thing that saddens me is the massive obsession with wealth and trinkets.

...

Money and wealth seems to be the end goal here. It wasn't predominant in my village all those years back but it sure as hell is here and alive today.

-

I think it was already here in many many areas, but it's true that it's penetrated deep upcountry now.

However among the truly poor their expectations are still manageable for those on a reasonable Western income.

-

Don't see as many elephants on the roads...rarely now...

-

I've got them walking past my front door at least two or three times a day, it's the one thing makes me think "won't see that at home!"

[keemapoot]

^Are you sure those aren't just +sized farangs out for a stroll?

[473geo]

Increased materialism and consumerism.......progress?......or decline?......but certainly more widespread and apparent.....

[Hedghog]

More Farang shop lifters,getting caught.

[balloon chaser]

Lots of farang left around 2008 due to the GFC. Russians have swarmed in. Exchange rates have recently gone to the soi dogs.

Yeah, it's changed. But I don't think everybody should leave just because somebody else is leaving.

Thailand is just as enjoyable as times past. Don't let others get you down.

[somtampet]

There is just a total lack of positive developments, all I mentioned was it's becoming one big mess. The attitude of the people, twisted minds, lack of responsibility and dignity, the cowboy government, the traffic, but also too many western dropouts who brought their arrogant mentality into Thailand (hence the tougher visa rules etc.) Really the most joyful time in Thailand was in the last century, now too many lowlife and bs.

-

I think all of the above "observations" are much more the result of the writer's POV changing and nothing at all to do with any objectively confirmed changes over recent decades.

Other than the increase in lower-end western expats, certainly true and certainly negative for both Thailand and the more respectable farang, but IMO not really that big a deal, they can get rid of us easily at the drop of a hat whenever they decide to go to the trouble, fix the issue sharpish no problem.

But they probably won't bother, helps the growing more successful parts of Thai society feel superior.

U have it wrong ass usual,I think the lower end farangs,as u call them are getting less and less in my mind.My view is they are staying in more,due to the weak gfb/dollar/euro to the thai baht,so we dont see them as much,some are going back to their home country.I dont believe that more money is being thrown at issan families by farang neither.

[trainman34014]

It's changing and will continue to do so the same as anywhere else. My big regret is that the creeping paralysis of concrete has followed me from my Mother country to this one.

[HardenedSoul]

Of course Thailand has changed - it's a developing country, <deleted>.

I find it slightly irritating that some expats lament the passing of what they consider to be Thailand's "golden years" when you could get a rack of beers and a genial bird for the night for THB1,000.

What they hell do they expect? Would they rather the country stagnate just so they can debauch themselves on the cheap or preserve their perceived financial superiority to the locals??

The Thai economy's boomed in recent years and - same as any other country that undergoes the rise of a new middle class - people want to acquire things they believe (rightly or wrongly) will enhance their existence be it property, a smartphone, a laptop or a car.

Perhaps the whingers should leave and come back if/when the economy collapses and those cute girls in business attire on the BTS are forced to work in Soi Cowboy taking care of surly, angry-at-the-world foreigners.

[Berkshire]

There seems to be an attitude Money and wealth seems to be the end goal here. It wasn't predominant in my village all those years back but it sure as hell is here and alive today.

Yeah, it's called capitalism. I'm sure you've heard about it. It's in all the papers.

[SteeleJoe]

For the moment I will just answer the question posed in the title (haven't even read the thread):

Both. Of this I am absolutely certain.

Oh, and to this (which I believe was meant as a question):

"Simply 20 years ago was Thailand that much different then today or are you looking at Thailand through eyes that are now 20 years older (and wiser)."

Again, both. But I compare it to 31 years ago for an even more stark contrast.

Edited April 10, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Star Dust]

IMO everything changes, everywhere, all the time. For some the change is good. For some it's not. It really is just a POV, or matter of opinion.

For me personally. Well, 13 years in Thailand. I'm leaving by the end of this month. For me personally I had enough and need a bit more than a little distance from good old Thailand.

IMO it doesn't matter where you are. If you stay there for long, it gets boring after some time anyway.

So change is for the good I think. Don't like it here, then move. Like it again, move back.

Here today, tomorrow there. As soon as I'm here, all I want is to be there.

[villagefarang]

Of course it's changing, but I like it better than two decades ago. Life is more comfortable. There is a lot more to do - plenty of Western music, TV shows, films, reading material and decent non-Thai restaurants.

Agree. Since 1975 there have been too many changes to list, both in me and Thailand. I was happy then and I am happy now but I am much more comfortable now. Comfort wasn’t as much of an issue back then, for some reason.

[mogandave]

"The more things change, the more they stay the same."

I'm from L.A., and I think So. Cal. has changed more in the last ten years then Thailand has.

[JaiLai]

_{14 years in Thailand, when i came here you had to go and discover things yourself due to lack of info online / websites etc etc, by doing this i found it more of an adventure, now ( to me ) the whole place seems very plastic, it's lost it's 'mojo'.}

_{There is no doubt it's more 'comfortable' now than what it was BUT in many ways that was it's allure.}

_{Yes, i have the means and resources to leave but i simply would 'not fit in' should i move back to the real world, sad but true.....}

[Kitsune]

The changes are dramatic physically:

- Bangkok used to be called the Venice of the East, you could take a boat to go anywhere

- Trees were everywhere

- obviously less buildings/high rises, cars (1200 new cars per day in Bangkok alone) , pollution, people, etc

But the most striking change is in the population: In the last 10-15 years Thai population has changed from gentle Buddhist farmers to office workers. Rice crops in Provinces are deserted and children of farmers preferred to come to Bangkok and become factory or office workers.

On the BTS office workers play with their Ipad and totally ignore old people standing on the BTS at rush hour, whereas farmers would have given to their last Bahts to help someone in need.

[mogandave]

LOL

[SteeleJoe]

The changes are dramatic physically:

- Bangkok used to be called the Venice of the East, you could take a boat to go anywhere

- Trees were everywhere

- obviously less buildings/high rises, cars (1200 new cars per day in Bangkok alone) , pollution, people, etc

But the most striking change is in the population: In the last 10-15 years Thai population has changed from gentle Buddhist farmers to office workers. Rice crops in Provinces are deserted and children of farmers preferred to come to Bangkok and become factory or office workers.

On the BTS office workers play with their Ipad and totally ignore old people standing on the BTS at rush hour, whereas farmers would have given to their last Bahts to help someone in need.

Hmmm...romanticize or idealize much?

Buddhist farmers have been known to be less than generous or compassionate and your paternalistic generalization notwithstanding, they are not of a single mind and character or event close to it.

By the way, to the degree that actual people - not tour guides - ever really have called Bangkok (or Ayutthaya) "Venice of the East" (who would actually say that?) that was based on the situation 100 years ago. I don't know when you got here but when I got here in 81 the Klongs had largely long been covered and you could NOT "take a boat anywhere" - or even most places. Moreover trees were NOT everywhere or anything remotely similar - indeed Bangkok was known to be a city with VERY little green space - something reported and commented on occasion in Thai press at the time.

[Ulysses G.]

Hmmm...romanticize or idealize much?

Indeed.

[Kitsune]

The changes are dramatic physically:

- Bangkok used to be called the Venice of the East, you could take a boat to go anywhere

- Trees were everywhere

- obviously less buildings/high rises, cars (1200 new cars per day in Bangkok alone) , pollution, people, etc

But the most striking change is in the population: In the last 10-15 years Thai population has changed from gentle Buddhist farmers to office workers. Rice crops in Provinces are deserted and children of farmers preferred to come to Bangkok and become factory or office workers.

On the BTS office workers play with their Ipad and totally ignore old people standing on the BTS at rush hour, whereas farmers would have given to their last Bahts to help someone in need.

Hmmm...romanticize or idealize much?

Buddhist farmers have been known to be less than generous or compassionate and your paternalistic generalization notwithstanding, they are not of a single mind and character or event close to it.

By the way, to the degree that actual people - not tour guides - ever really have called Bangkok (or Ayutthaya) "Venice of the East" (who would actually say that?) that was based on the situation 100 years ago. I don't know when you got here but when I got here in 81 the Klongs had largely long been covered and you could NOT "take a boat anywhere" - or even most places. Moreover trees were NOT everywhere or anything remotely similar - indeed Bangkok was known to be a city with VERY little green space - something reported and commented on occasion in Thai press at the time.

10 Years ago I remember coming to Bangkok in a family run guest house in Kao San Road, and being quite sick.

On her own initiative the owner had been to the shop and got me medication, she absolutely refused that I pay her back. The place fell like staying at your grandma, old wooden house superbly kept very hot in the summer indeed but so pretty and the grandma was indeed taking care of you like you were family.

I came back last year because a friend of mine wanted to stay in Kao San road so I took him there. The place was closed, the old lady had died and her son refuses to run the guesthouse anymore, he explained to me the all area is now run by mafia and prostitution and he refuse to be part of it.

So we went to look for other place and got in Rambrutti Village, one of this new cheap place with swimming pool that backpackers love. The staff is unbelievably rude, apparently they are always full anyway, so they don't give a damn about their customers and treat everyone like dirt.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Kitsune