Is Thailand Changing..or Have You Changed?

[SteeleJoe]

The changes are dramatic physically:

- Bangkok used to be called the Venice of the East, you could take a boat to go anywhere

- Trees were everywhere

- obviously less buildings/high rises, cars (1200 new cars per day in Bangkok alone) , pollution, people, etc

But the most striking change is in the population: In the last 10-15 years Thai population has changed from gentle Buddhist farmers to office workers. Rice crops in Provinces are deserted and children of farmers preferred to come to Bangkok and become factory or office workers.

On the BTS office workers play with their Ipad and totally ignore old people standing on the BTS at rush hour, whereas farmers would have given to their last Bahts to help someone in need.

Hmmm...romanticize or idealize much?

Buddhist farmers have been known to be less than generous or compassionate and your paternalistic generalization notwithstanding, they are not of a single mind and character or event close to it.

By the way, to the degree that actual people - not tour guides - ever really have called Bangkok (or Ayutthaya) "Venice of the East" (who would actually say that?) that was based on the situation 100 years ago. I don't know when you got here but when I got here in 81 the Klongs had largely long been covered and you could NOT "take a boat anywhere" - or even most places. Moreover trees were NOT everywhere or anything remotely similar - indeed Bangkok was known to be a city with VERY little green space - something reported and commented on occasion in Thai press at the time.

10 Years ago I remember coming to Bangkok in a family run guest house in Kao San Road, and being quite sick.

On her own initiative the owner had been to the shop and got me medication, she absolutely refused that I pay her back. The place fell like staying at your grandma, old wooden house superbly kept very hot in the summer indeed but so pretty and the grandma was indeed taking care of you like you were family.

I came back last year because a friend of mine wanted to stay in Kao San road so I took him there. The place was closed, the old lady had died and her son refuses to run the guesthouse anymore, he explained to me the all area is now run by mafia and prostitution and he refuse to be part of it.

So we went to look for other place and got in Rambrutti Village, one of this new cheap place with swimming pool that backpackers love. The staff is unbelievably rude, apparently they are always full anyway, so they don't give a damn about their customers and treat everyone like dirt.

Okay...and that supposed to support your first post?

I liked the story in the first paragraph. I could share at least a dozen more as nice. And I could also share many stories that would indicate (like your second paragraph was presumably meant to do) change for the worse. But what I can't do is say I ever saw - over 31 years all around Thailand - what you apparently saw on your visit to Kao San Road in 2003.

By the way, Kao San Road is probably the absolute worst place in the entire country to gain virtually any useful understanding of Thailand.

Edited April 11, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[driedmango]

once upon a time, cheap charlies and wanna be pimps with glowing red noses and beer bellies couldn't have dreamed of getting away from their local ass patch in Europe to go somewhere else in the world. If that helps you picture siam.

[poanoi]

Pattaya has changed/ become overcrowded and i dont like it here any longer

[Kitsune]

The changes are dramatic physically:

- Bangkok used to be called the Venice of the East, you could take a boat to go anywhere

- Trees were everywhere

- obviously less buildings/high rises, cars (1200 new cars per day in Bangkok alone) , pollution, people, etc

But the most striking change is in the population: In the last 10-15 years Thai population has changed from gentle Buddhist farmers to office workers. Rice crops in Provinces are deserted and children of farmers preferred to come to Bangkok and become factory or office workers.

On the BTS office workers play with their Ipad and totally ignore old people standing on the BTS at rush hour, whereas farmers would have given to their last Bahts to help someone in need.

Hmmm...romanticize or idealize much?

Buddhist farmers have been known to be less than generous or compassionate and your paternalistic generalization notwithstanding, they are not of a single mind and character or event close to it.

By the way, to the degree that actual people - not tour guides - ever really have called Bangkok (or Ayutthaya) "Venice of the East" (who would actually say that?) that was based on the situation 100 years ago. I don't know when you got here but when I got here in 81 the Klongs had largely long been covered and you could NOT "take a boat anywhere" - or even most places. Moreover trees were NOT everywhere or anything remotely similar - indeed Bangkok was known to be a city with VERY little green space - something reported and commented on occasion in Thai press at the time.

10 Years ago I remember coming to Bangkok in a family run guest house in Kao San Road, and being quite sick.

On her own initiative the owner had been to the shop and got me medication, she absolutely refused that I pay her back. The place fell like staying at your grandma, old wooden house superbly kept very hot in the summer indeed but so pretty and the grandma was indeed taking care of you like you were family.

I came back last year because a friend of mine wanted to stay in Kao San road so I took him there. The place was closed, the old lady had died and her son refuses to run the guesthouse anymore, he explained to me the all area is now run by mafia and prostitution and he refuse to be part of it.

So we went to look for other place and got in Rambrutti Village, one of this new cheap place with swimming pool that backpackers love. The staff is unbelievably rude, apparently they are always full anyway, so they don't give a damn about their customers and treat everyone like dirt.

Okay...and that supposed to support your first post?

I liked the story in the first paragraph. I could share at least a dozen more as nice. And I could also share many stories that would indicate (like your second paragraph was presumably meant to do) change for the worse. But what I can't do is say I ever saw - over 31 years all around Thailand - what you apparently saw on your visit to Kao San Road in 2003.

By the way, Kao San Road is probably the absolute worst place in the entire country to gain virtually any useful understanding of Thailand.

To the contrary I think Kao San road encapsulate everything that is changing in this country

Supporting my first post would be pointless, you read romanticism, when I refer to Thailand industrialization.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Kitsune

[SteeleJoe]

By the way, Kao San Road is probably the absolute worst place in the entire country to gain virtually any useful understanding of Thailand.

To the contrary I think Kao San road encapsulate everything that is changing in this country

Wow.

That speaks volumes about you (and what you think it means to get a grasp on Thailand)...

[Kitsune]

Kao san rd is the micro replica of what is happening in the rest of Bangkok and even the country yes.

Because of it position as a bustling hub for foreigners it gives a very good perspective of the impact of foreign investment in LOS

[SteeleJoe]

Kao san rd is the micro replica of what is happening in the rest of Bangkok and even the country yes.

Because of it position as a bustling hub for foreigners it gives a very good perspective of the impact of foreign investment in LOS

I just literally LOLed.

Edited April 11, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[Kitsune]

Kao san rd is the micro replica of what is happening in the rest of Bangkok and even the country yes.

Because of it position as a bustling hub for foreigners it gives a very good perspective of the impact of foreign investment in LOS

I just literally LOLed.

I am glad I made you laugh

[thequietman]

There seems to be an attitude Money and wealth seems to be the end goal here. It wasn't predominant in my village all those years back but it sure as hell is here and alive today.

Yeah, it's called capitalism. I'm sure you've heard about it. It's in all the papers.

Yes, I am aware of capitalism and I applaud it. Hard work should be rewarded. However wealth at any price I hate and this is what I am referring to in my post. The amount of lies and deceit that goes on in and around my village now to make a baht is NOT how it was when I arrived here first..

On a side note, sarcasm has been referred to as the lowest form of wit. Are you aware of that. I am sure its been in all the papers also.

[Kitsune]

The singular thing that saddens me is the massive obsession with wealth and trinkets. I didn't really notice it 11 years ago when I arrived but I suppose then, I was looking at everything with rose coloured spectacles.

Even in my local village its all about "show", something that wasn't predominant when I arrived here. There seems to be an attitude throughout the majority that "F##k you if I,m alright" and it has changed the way I look at people now.

It has also changed me for the worst I fear, as I seem to be more and more distant from the values I was taught growing up. I would be reluctant to stop and help someone at an accident scene in Thailand. At home this thought would never cross my mind. I seem to be numb to the constant corruption and greed and now when I hear or see something that is totally ludicrous and is way beyond the scope of reasonable, I find my self saying "mai pen rai" and to be honest thinking like this goes against everything I was taught.

I have adopted the attitude "you can't change it so why bother" but it does unsettle me.

Money and wealth seems to be the end goal here. It wasn't predominant in my village all those years back but it sure as hell is here and alive today.

It frightens me also when I think, given all the strings attached, I would not stop to help in a road accident either. This country is changing and also changing us and not for the better

[farangme]

The answers are 'yes' and 'yes'. In some ways LOS has changed dramatically, and in some ways its still the same. What's one to do? Adapt and roll with it. The only constant is change.

Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[meatboy]

was in patts.1983-1990 it was great i never witnessed any trouble,went back for a visit 2011 for 3days,3hrs.was enough,phuket again 1986 was great,wf has family there that would be the only reason to go there patong or karon,sumui we were there 1991 again that was a lovely place cant comment on it as we havnt been back.any tourist area in thailand is out for us,living in isaan will do great place.

[villagefarang]

Something someone said reminded me of an actual observation I had forgotten about. When I first arrived in Bangkok, there were three tall building that towered above all the shophouses. There was the Indra Hotel, the Dusit Thani Hotel and the Chokchai Building which later became the Laemthong Bank in the 80s, I believe.

In this regard I guess Bangkok has changed just a bit.

[Kitsune]

Something someone said reminded me of an actual observation I had forgotten about. When I first arrived in Bangkok, there were three tall building that towered above all the shophouses. There was the Indra Hotel, the Dusit Thani Hotel and the Chokchai Building which later became the Laemthong Bank in the 80s, I believe.

In this regard I guess Bangkok has changed just a bit.

And at the bottom of the buildings, at the rate of 1200 new cars every day for the last 3 years, nothing changed ?

[GooEng]

the monetisation and modernisation has been steady and gradual in the 20 yrs i've been here - in line with the growing economy. but i think the biggest change here occurred in the early 2000's somewhere around 2001-2004... the relaxed and easy going nature that i'd always felt was quintessentially thai seemed to evaporate sometime in that era.....might just be me mind you...

[SteeleJoe]

Something someone said reminded me of an actual observation I had forgotten about. When I first arrived in Bangkok, there were three tall building that towered above all the shophouses. There was the Indra Hotel, the Dusit Thani Hotel and the Chokchai Building which later became the Laemthong Bank in the 80s, I believe.

In this regard I guess Bangkok has changed just a bit.

And at the bottom of the buildings, at the rate of 1200 new cars every day for the last 3 years, nothing changed ?

First of all, the OP's question was about Thailand, not just Bangkok (nor Kao San Road).

Secondly, of course many things about Bangkok (particularly physical aspects like high rise buildings in size, number and dispersion) have changed in the last few decades - I watched it transform myself - only a complete ignoramus would not recognize that.

Your observations regarding 3 years of car sales and a tiny sliver of the city that is built for a tiny sector of the city aren't necessary to know that (and indeed are extremely superficial indicators, at best).

[Kitsune]

Something someone said reminded me of an actual observation I had forgotten about. When I first arrived in Bangkok, there were three tall building that towered above all the shophouses. There was the Indra Hotel, the Dusit Thani Hotel and the Chokchai Building which later became the Laemthong Bank in the 80s, I believe.

In this regard I guess Bangkok has changed just a bit.

And at the bottom of the buildings, at the rate of 1200 new cars every day for the last 3 years, nothing changed ?

First of all, the OP's question was about Thailand, not just Bangkok (nor Kao San Road).

Secondly, of course many things about Bangkok (particularly physical aspects like high rise buildings in size, number and dispersion) have changed in the last few decades - I watched it transform myself - only a complete ignoramus would not recognize that.

Your observations regarding 3 years of car sales and a tiny sliver of the city that is built for a tiny sector of the city aren't necessary to know that (and indeed are extremely superficial indicators, at best).

Sorry but speaking without actual figures, is only a matter of personal impression

If you think/feel that there are exactly as many cars as 10 years ago, i am not going to argue about and your impression or feelings.

Please do continue to believe that Bangkok is traffic and pollution free and it has not changed one bit, I am sure it make you feel good

[SteeleJoe]

Sorry but speaking without actual figures, is only a matter of personal impression

If you think/feel that there are exactly as many cars as 10 years ago, i am not going to argue about and your impression or feelings.

Please do continue to believe that Bangkok is traffic and pollution free and it has not changed one bit, I am sure it make you feel good

Pardon me for asking bluntly but, are you intoxicated or do you just have very weak reading comprehension skills?

Where do you get this nonsense about me believing there are exactly as many cars as 10 years ago? Where did you read anything even slightly similar to me saying or suggesting I believe Bangkok is traffic and pollution free and it has not changed one bit?

And why would it make me feel good to believe something absurd and idiotic and in complete contradiction with obvious and objective fact?

[FunFon]

Pardon me for asking bluntly but, are you intoxicated or do you just have very weak reading comprehension skills?

Where do you get this nonsense about me believing there are exactly as many cars as 10 years ago? Where did you read anything even slightly similar to me saying or suggesting I believe Bangkok is traffic and pollution free and it has not changed one bit?

And why would it make me feel good to believe something absurd and idiotic and in complete contradiction with obvious and objective fact?

-

Some people interpret one disagreeing even slightly with one of their points as advocating a POV opposite to everything they've said, don't actually pay enough attention to what others write to hold a rational discourse of detailed ideas.

Once they've self-identified as such, I find it unproductive to engage with them in any further discussion.

[BookMan]

There seems to be an attitude Money and wealth seems to be the end goal here. It wasn't predominant in my village all those years back but it sure as hell is here and alive today.

Yeah, it's called capitalism. I'm sure you've heard about it. It's in all the papers.

Yes, I am aware of capitalism and I applaud it. Hard work should be rewarded. However wealth at any price I hate and this is what I am referring to in my post. The amount of lies and deceit that goes on in and around my village now to make a baht is NOT how it was when I arrived here first..

On a side note, sarcasm has been referred to as the lowest form of wit. Are you aware of that. I am sure its been in all the papers also.

Is it possible quietman that as you have become a part of the every day life of the village and have been there for some time that you more readily identify the undercurrents and politics of village life?

[Kitsune]

Sorry but speaking without actual figures, is only a matter of personal impression

If you think/feel that there are exactly as many cars as 10 years ago, i am not going to argue about and your impression or feelings.

Please do continue to believe that Bangkok is traffic and pollution free and it has not changed one bit, I am sure it make you feel good

Pardon me for asking bluntly but, are you intoxicated or do you just have very weak reading comprehension skills?

Where do you get this nonsense about me believing there are exactly as many cars as 10 years ago? Where did you read anything even slightly similar to me saying or suggesting I believe Bangkok is traffic and pollution free and it has not changed one bit?

And why would it make me feel good to believe something absurd and idiotic and in complete contradiction with obvious and objective fact?

I am drunk high, have very low comprehension skills but can recognize the huge impact of speedy unruled development, something others are still struggling to comprehend and acknowledge....weird eh ?

[lumply]

IMO everything changes, everywhere, all the time. For some the change is good. For some it's not. It really is just a POV, or matter of opinion.

For me personally. Well, 13 years in Thailand. I'm leaving by the end of this month. For me personally I had enough and need a bit more than a little distance from good old Thailand.

IMO it doesn't matter where you are. If you stay there for long, it gets boring after some time anyway.

So change is for the good I think. Don't like it here, then move. Like it again, move back.

Here today, tomorrow there. As soon as I'm here, all I want is to be there.

I agree that like minded travellers are in danger of getting bored if rooted to one spot for a long time. However, to jack it all in is a p-retty final way of solving the problem (although granted, most decisions of this nature can be reversed as you suggest). A few years ago I grew progressively tired of where I was at the time and decided to take a break for the better part of six months. In fact a period was spent in LOS which helped. I then went back to the original place and felt truly re-vitalized. My advice is to get away from the place for a while (3-6 months)if circumstances permit, and then return. Don't burn your boats. All the best.

[rct99q]

Good to hear most people still enjoy living here after many years. I have no plans to leave but from other posters "having" to leave for various reasons just wanted to get a sense of the long term life here

I agree a country that does not change over time is one I would not want to call home. Thailand I know will continue to change and I do believe for the better. It will take some time but I feel confident my children will be have the luxury of being raised in this beautiful country as well as the option to live in Europe or the Americas.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[farangme]

the monetisation and modernisation has been steady and gradual in the 20 yrs i've been here - in line with the growing economy. but i think the biggest change here occurred in the early 2000's somewhere around 2001-2004... the relaxed and easy going nature that i'd always felt was quintessentially thai seemed to evaporate sometime in that era.....might just be me mind you...

Funny, my wife feels the same way about her homeland.

Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Kitsune]

the monetisation and modernisation has been steady and gradual in the 20 yrs i've been here - in line with the growing economy. but i think the biggest change here occurred in the early 2000's somewhere around 2001-2004... the relaxed and easy going nature that i'd always felt was quintessentially thai seemed to evaporate sometime in that era.....might just be me mind you...

+1

[Neeranam]

The changes I see in Bangkok are the reduced traffic. I used to take 4 hours to get home from work on a Friday. 1 hour to get up Silom Road alone.

I have changed so my attitude has changed. I used to go around smiling at everyone - saying, "farang", "aroi", and other ridiculous things so I got smiles back. Now, I go around saying things like, "I'm not a bloody tourist <deleted> off" so get different responses.

[farang000999]

Food in Bangkok seems to be getting poorer and poorer as rents go up and every vendor is doing everything they can to keep costs down and since most of the people eating the food are too tired or rushed to even taste it. On my last trip there, I just couldn't help but notice how low the quality of local restaurants has gotten compared to smaller cities in Thailand.