Tesol Or Degree?

[Andy76]

Hi All,

Ok, I am still here in Thailand for the moment until 20th May. However I will be extending my tourist visa on or before the 20th April. Anyway, I got a contract with a school in Bangkok from May 2006 to May 2007. Now here is the problem....

I got no Degree or TESOL, but for me to be legally working in Thailand I need a work permit followed by the teaching licence and B class visa. Now the MOE (Ministry of Education) won't issue the teaching licence unless I have a degree. But what if I got a TESOL? would this still entitle me to the teaching licence because if so, then I will do the TESOL now before the 20th May while I am here.

I really want to stay in Thailand and don't want to go back to England in May. Can someone adivise me asap with what to do or any other employment opertunities that would be acceptable with out the required degree. This does not have to be a educational job, I just would like to stay here.

Please help.

Andy

[Noel]

Hi All,

Ok, I am still here in Thailand for the moment until 20th May. However I will be extending my tourist visa on or before the 20th April. Anyway, I got a contract with a school in Bangkok from May 2006 to May 2007. Now here is the problem....

I got no Degree or TESOL, but for me to be legally working in Thailand I need a work permit followed by the teaching licence and B class visa. Now the MOE (Ministry of Education) won't issue the teaching licence unless I have a degree. But what if I got a TESOL? would this still entitle me to the teaching licence because if so, then I will do the TESOL now before the 20th May while I am here.

I really want to stay in Thailand and don't want to go back to England in May. Can someone adivise me asap with what to do or any other employment opertunities that would be acceptable with out the required degree. This does not have to be a educational job, I just would like to stay here.

Please help.

Andy

Best of luck Andy, it would be a tragedy if the English language students of Thailand were denied access to your linguistic skills.

Buddha's speed!

[jdinasia]

Try the Teaching in Thailand forum ... but to the best of my knowledge the answer is no .. gotta have the degree.

[PeaceBlondie]

Topic moved to Teaching Forum.

Andy, the school shouldn't hire somebody that can't get a teacher's license or a work permit for. But sometimes, if they really like you and want you, they can help you to get the right papers.

Technically, nobody should ever violate any law, anywhere, for any reason. But the law, in this case, is not crystal clear.

You got a twelve month contract without the normal educational requirements? That's unusual; even some people with proper qualifications don't get that in their first or second year (moi).

The school should write you a very nice invitation on school letterhead, signed by nobody less than the director, clearly inviting you and saying you already have a contract, so that you can go home and get a proper visa at a place like Hull. It's very hard, though, to get your visa changed to a B, although anything's possible in Thailand.

I would advise you to take a real TEFL course, of at least four weeks plus a teaching practicum, if at all possible while you're still here. You need something, because teaching in Thailand can be the most difficult job you'll ever have. And, your initial post frankly doesn't show that you have enough command of your native language to teach it, but maybe I'm wrong (as often happens).

There are few other opportunities for legal work in Thailand, for a foreigner.

Good luck, but don't expect miracles. The odds are already stacked against you.

[robitusson]

Hi All,

Ok, I am still here in Thailand for the moment until 20th May. However I will be extending my tourist visa on or before the 20th April. Anyway, I got a contract with a school in Bangkok from May 2006 to May 2007. Now here is the problem....

I got no Degree or TESOL, but for me to be legally working in Thailand I need a work permit followed by the teaching licence and B class visa. Now the MOE (Ministry of Education) won't issue the teaching licence unless I have a degree. But what if I got a TESOL? would this still entitle me to the teaching licence because if so, then I will do the TESOL now before the 20th May while I am here.

I really want to stay in Thailand and don't want to go back to England in May. Can someone adivise me asap with what to do or any other employment opertunities that would be acceptable with out the required degree. This does not have to be a educational job, I just would like to stay here.

Please help.

Andy

You'll have no problem getting work if you're a native speaker and you're reaonably respectable looking. Get some nice work-clothes and get applying on www.ajarn.com and you should find something ok. Remember, appearance is very often more important than substance here. Forget about doing the TESOL if you want it just to get a teaching license, it's not worth anything in the eyes of the Thai department of labour. This means unfortunately you'll have to do the visa-run every 4 weeks which is a pain in the @ss but you'll be able to stay in Thailand. Go for it.

[PeaceBlondie]

Doing a visa run every four weeks is such a pain in the rear end and the brain, that it would spoil one's work. And it would add one to two thousand baht to his monthly expenses. Not worth it.

I recommended that he take a TEFL course, not because it might indeed make him look half-way or third-way acceptable to any of the authorities, but primarily because it might prepare him for the most challenging assignment of his lifetime. Just because he's a native speaker with limited mastery of the language, and maybe has a white face, doesn't mean he's going to make it without a degree, with a tourist visa, without a TEFL, and without a clue about teaching English.

But hey, I'm often wrong.

[mbkudu]

Doing a visa run every four weeks is such a pain in the rear end and the brain, that it would spoil one's work. And it would add one to two thousand baht to his monthly expenses. Not worth it.

A TEFL course might prepare him for the most challenging assignment of his lifetime.

I absolutely agree with the first part. You've got to be joking about the second part . You make it sound like he's Bruce Willis in 'Armagedon.' PB, you seem a bit serious about all this TEFL hoky poky lately.

[PeaceBlondie]

Good analogy, mbkudu.

I honestly think a lot of young, inexperienced backpackers and starry-eyed folks come to Thailand thinking it's a walk in the park and a lark to just walk into a Thai classroom and 'teach Englich."

Okay, I overstated it. But this original poster seems unprepared, and I thought that teaching 49 Ponchasaras and Popawichaikorns in a 94-degree classroom, where the fans barely worked and the blackboard was out of chalk, and the podium had five levels in the audio visual room that was neither audio nor visual, and you didn't know maa from maa from maa so you had a good chance of calling somebody's mother a horse or a dog, and you had to eat in the school cafeteria, and learn all the cultural taboos and customs, etc., ad infinitum, e pluribus unum, etc. was tougher than arguing income tax law to an insane tax protestor.

I've sworn an immutable pledge to a banned poster in Bournemouth, England, that I would never tell folks like the original poster, "Oh sure, come and teach English in Thailand, even if you can't conjugate a verb or decline nouns, it's a real easy gig with all the sex you can possibly fornicate, and you get paid 28 times as much as a Thai Ph.D., and everybody on the staff speaks perfect Oxonian Queen's received BBC English, there's a Baptist church on every corner, beef is the national dish, and you only teach one class a day in a cold room......"

[wolf5370]

"Oh sure, come and teach English in Thailand, even if you can't conjugate a verb or decline nouns, it's a real easy gig with all the sex you can possibly fornicate, and you get paid 28 times as much as a Thai Ph.D., and everybody on the staff speaks perfect Oxonian Queen's received BBC English, there's a Baptist church on every corner, beef is the national dish, and you only teach one class a day in a cold room......"

Ask them nicely and they may put the heating on for you Think he means Cool room

Oh, pedantic me!

I got no Degree

Never, say it isn't so!

Edited March 20, 2006 by wolf5370

[PeaceBlondie]

"Oh sure, come and teach English in Thailand, even if you can't conjugate a verb or decline nouns, it's a real easy gig with all the sex you can possibly fornicate, and you get paid 28 times as much as a Thai Ph.D., and everybody on the staff speaks perfect Oxonian Queen's received BBC English, there's a Baptist church on every corner, beef is the national dish, and you only teach one class a day in a cold room......"

Ask them nicely and they may put the heating on for you Think he means Cool room

Oh, pedantic me!

I got no Degree

Never, say it isn't so!

Actually, I wrote 'cold room' on purpose. I'm from Texas, so I exaggerate a billion times per nanosecond. If the degreeless OP teaches in that room, he won't have any degrees of heat.

[richard10365]

A little off topic but.........I wonder if it is more important for a native English speaker to be able to speak, read, and write Thai or to have the degree?

It would seem that the ability to communicate with your students would be important in a teaching situation. How many farangs teaching English can speak, read, and write Thai? The ones who can, do they feel the degree is more important or the ability to communicate in Thai?

I have gotten a few offers this month only because the teachers seem impressed with my ability to speak Thai. I never thought I spoke well but when I read a sign on the wall in a restaurant and translated it to English they were impressed.

One teacher told me he has 20 farangs working at his school and none of them can speak Thai.

Maybe speaking Thai is not important and they were just desperate.

I am somewhat interested in teaching again in Thailand. Everything IJWT said did happen to me when I was volunteering in Sa Kaeo for 18 months.

There were some great moments as well. Everyone seemed very nice but that was probably because they wern't paying me and I was doing it for free.

Maybe the OP should volunteer first for free and get a feel for the situation he is getting into before he commits himself to something that might be over his head.

The best benefit to volunteering is if you do not want to come to work you can call and tell the school director you will be out that day and there is nothing he can do about it. (<----is that at a run on sentence?)

If your getting paid they expect you to be at work when your supposed to be there. They also expect you to perform to standard.

[robitusson]

I honestly think a lot of young, inexperienced backpackers and starry-eyed folks come to Thailand thinking it's a walk in the park and a lark to just walk into a Thai classroom and 'teach Englich."

That's about right. Walk in the park or perhaps a piece of cake also.

[robitusson]

A little off topic but.........I wonder if it is more important for a native English speaker to be able to speak, read, and write Thai or to have the degree?

It would seem that the ability to communicate with your students would be important in a teaching situation. How many farangs teaching English can speak, read, and write Thai? The ones who can, do they feel the degree is more important or the ability to communicate in Thai?

I have gotten a few offers this month only because the teachers seem impressed with my ability to speak Thai. I never thought I spoke well but when I read a sign on the wall in a restaurant and translated it to English they were impressed.

One teacher told me he has 20 farangs working at his school and none of them can speak Thai.

Maybe speaking Thai is not important and they were just desperate.

Speaking Thai is only relevant if you're trained to teach through the medium of another language. If you're a TEFL or TESL teacher then using Thai in the classroom is counter-productive. I would never use Thai under any circumstances. It completely defeats the purpose of having a foreign teacher.

[richard10365]

A little off topic but.........I wonder if it is more important for a native English speaker to be able to speak, read, and write Thai or to have the degree?

It would seem that the ability to communicate with your students would be important in a teaching situation. How many farangs teaching English can speak, read, and write Thai? The ones who can, do they feel the degree is more important or the ability to communicate in Thai?

I have gotten a few offers this month only because the teachers seem impressed with my ability to speak Thai. I never thought I spoke well but when I read a sign on the wall in a restaurant and translated it to English they were impressed.

One teacher told me he has 20 farangs working at his school and none of them can speak Thai.

Maybe speaking Thai is not important and they were just desperate.

Speaking Thai is only relevant if you're trained to teach through the medium of another language. If you're a TEFL or TESL teacher then using Thai in the classroom is counter-productive. I would never use Thai under any circumstances. It completely defeats the purpose of having a foreign teacher.

If that were true then all students with foreign teachers should be able to hold a conversation with me in English. What would you say the purpose of having a foreign teacher is?

[wilko]

A little off topic but.........I wonder if it is more important for a native English speaker to be able to speak, read, and write Thai or to have the degree?

It would seem that the ability to communicate with your students would be important in a teaching situation. How many farangs teaching English can speak, read, and write Thai? The ones who can, do they feel the degree is more important or the ability to communicate in Thai?

I have gotten a few offers this month only because the teachers seem impressed with my ability to speak Thai. I never thought I spoke well but when I read a sign on the wall in a restaurant and translated it to English they were impressed.

One teacher told me he has 20 farangs working at his school and none of them can speak Thai.

Maybe speaking Thai is not important and they were just desperate.

I am somewhat interested in teaching again in Thailand. Everything IJWT said did happen to me when I was volunteering in Sa Kaeo for 18 months.

There were some great moments as well. Everyone seemed very nice but that was probably because they wern't paying me and I was doing it for free.

TEFL is taught in the medium of English...that is the medium that native speakers were taught in. It is primarliy an inductive process not merely a talking dictionary. whereas it is always useful for a teacher or any worker to know some of the local language this is not part of TEFL.

You have underlined the point here that teaching is not something you can just walk into because you can speak the language. One needs some training, like any other skilled job.

Maybe the OP should volunteer first for free and get a feel for the situation he is getting into before he commits himself to something that might be over his head.

The best benefit to volunteering is if you do not want to come to work you can call and tell the school director you will be out that day and there is nothing he can do about it. (<----is that at a run on sentence?)

If your getting paid they expect you to be at work when your supposed to be there. They also expect you to perform to standard.

[robitusson]

A little off topic but.........I wonder if it is more important for a native English speaker to be able to speak, read, and write Thai or to have the degree?

It would seem that the ability to communicate with your students would be important in a teaching situation. How many farangs teaching English can speak, read, and write Thai? The ones who can, do they feel the degree is more important or the ability to communicate in Thai?

I have gotten a few offers this month only because the teachers seem impressed with my ability to speak Thai. I never thought I spoke well but when I read a sign on the wall in a restaurant and translated it to English they were impressed.

One teacher told me he has 20 farangs working at his school and none of them can speak Thai.

Maybe speaking Thai is not important and they were just desperate.

Speaking Thai is only relevant if you're trained to teach through the medium of another language. If you're a TEFL or TESL teacher then using Thai in the classroom is counter-productive. I would never use Thai under any circumstances. It completely defeats the purpose of having a foreign teacher.

If that were true then all students with foreign teachers should be able to hold a conversation with me in English. What would you say the purpose of having a foreign teacher is?

Foreign teachers teach English through English that's the idea. Students can have a much better conversation after being taught by a foreign teacher using the TEFL method than after years and years of rote "I am, you are, he is, she is, we are, you are, they are" style Thai teacher teaching.

Edited March 26, 2006 by robitusson

[Neeranam]

In 10 years of teaching in Thailand I'd estimate 10% of the teachers I worked with actually knew what they were doing and practised doing it.

Edited March 27, 2006 by Neeranam

[wilko]

In 10 years of teaching in Thailand I'd estimate 10% of the teachers I worked with actually knew what they were doing and practised doing it.

And which section of your survey do you include yourself in? the 10% or 90%?

[Neeranam]

After about 3 years teaching, then doing a Trinity TESOL cert., I knew what I was doing and practised it for a couple of years - so I'd be in the 10%. After that I was bored and lost interest so would be in the 90%. So, for 2 years out of 10, I was in the 10%.

How about you?

[English Noodles]

Actually, I wrote 'cold room' on purpose. I'm from Texas, so I exaggerate a billion times per nanosecond. If the degreeless OP teaches in that room, he won't have any degrees of heat.

You rubish the OP's comand off the English language and then you use words that dont even exist in English.

God help YOUR students.

[wilko]

After about 3 years teaching, then doing a Trinity TESOL cert., I knew what I was doing and practised it for a couple of years - so I'd be in the 10%. After that I was bored and lost interest so would be in the 90%. So, for 2 years out of 10, I was in the 10%.

How about you?

I think you make an interesting point that teachers' performance is not consistent. It varies as a result of many factors, both personal and environmental, so one bad lesson/term doesn't necessarily reflect on the teacher's career as a whole.

Of course it would help if teachers were paid properly here.

Edited March 29, 2006 by wilko

[wilko]

Actually, I wrote 'cold room' on purpose. I'm from Texas, so I exaggerate a billion times per nanosecond. If the degreeless OP teaches in that room, he won't have any degrees of heat.

You rubish the OP's comand off the English language and then you use words that dont even exist in English.

God help YOUR students.

And who made you the arbiter of what is and isn't English?

BTW - It's "rubbish" that you write, not "rubish"

Edited March 29, 2006 by wilko

[English Noodles]

Degreeless

Edited March 29, 2006 by English Noodles

[wilko]

Degreeless

-less is a suffix used to make an adjective or adverb from a noun it is a very common device in English.

One of the beauties of English is that it is an inventive language and allows its users to "make up" or develop the language to better express themselves

(and Yes! That IS a split infinitive!)….so with less of the heedless, needless thoughtlessness and carelessness, the posting could be rubishless!

[Neeranam]

There are too many English teachers in Thailand trying to prove that their knowledge of the finer nuances of English is better than that of their colleagues or competitors.

This knowledge is irrelevant if you are teaching "I'm a little teapot" or "heads, shoulders knees and toes, knees and toes".

I was laughing last night, as my daughter has learnt these songs - it took me back years to when I was standing in front 30 K1 students singing that song, feeling like a real &lt;deleted&gt; out of Play School or Blue Peter.

Never again will I be that desparate, I hope.

[kenkannif]

It is possible to get a TL and WP with minimal quals (TEFL, TESOL et al and no degree), but check with your employer first. It certainly won't hurt though.

[PeaceBlondie]

Quote by Wilko: "You rubish the OP's comand off the English language and then you use words that dont even exist in English.

God help YOUR students. "

Wilko, what's your point? I wasn't half as critical of the original poster's level of English usage as several other posters here. And if you're trying to more pedantier than I am, your penultimate sentence in the above-quoted post had three spelling errors, two punctuation errors, and a verb "to rubbish" which probably doesn't exist.

I was joking, and that should have been obvious even to a non-Texan. Relax; this is a thread about the qualifications of the original poster. Enjoy Thailand, and have some Thai food for me.

[mbkudu]

I was laughing last night, as my daughter has learnt these songs - it took me back years to when I was standing in front 30 K1 students singing that song, feeling like a real &lt;deleted&gt; out of Play School or Blue Peter.

<Never again will I be that desparate, I hope.>

That's interesting. I made more money teaching kids than I ever did the peanut tossing language house jobs.

[wilko]

Quote by Wilko: "You rubish the OP's comand off the English language and then you use words that dont even exist in English.

God help YOUR students. "

Wilko, what's your point? I wasn't half as critical of the original poster's level of English usage as several other posters here. And if you're trying to more pedantier than I am, your penultimate sentence in the above-quoted post had three spelling errors, two punctuation errors, and a verb "to rubbish" which probably doesn't exist.

I was joking, and that should have been obvious even to a non-Texan. Relax; this is a thread about the qualifications of the original poster. Enjoy Thailand, and have some Thai food for me.

So am I and the verb to rubbish does exist....5/10 must try harder.....

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(Neeranam @ 2006-03-30 08:36:28) *

I was laughing last night, as my daughter has learnt these songs - it took me back years to when I was standing in front 30 K1 students singing that song, feeling like a real &lt;deleted&gt; out of Play School or Blue Peter.

<Never again will I be that desparate, I hope.>

That's interesting. I made more money teaching kids than I ever did the peanut tossing language house jobs.

It's not about the money!