Liverpool F.c.

[sharecropper]

Welcome to our mid-table, underachieving, underperforming world lads.

Hope you enjoy it as much as we have learned to.....

15 years without a trophy, must be painful.

amazing for a club like everton, however, if youse concentrated on yer football as much as you do on us, you would have won the treble by now.

And if you all focussed on getting rid of Rafa you might have had a chance at 4th spot.

Enjoy that mid-table draw with Fulham?

[TheAceFace]

We battered Fulham tbh....good keeping kept them in it.....and the fact that we have no fe#kin decent back-up for Torres LOL.

[whichschool]

this is not good news this. it isn't a refinancing, it's a consolidation of the debt. which means that if a buyer isn't found who will pay H&G's ludicrous valuation of the club, £600m, then barclay's, having not found a buyer, can seek to reduce the value of the club by asset-stripping. which means player sales. whatever the press are painting this as today, this is not really a positive.

I was thinking much the same. The debt will go UP from £237 Million to £300 Million overnight

Lets hope Benitez doesnt squander any funds he's been given by buying squad players (or turning them into squad quality players)

Penkoprod

Unless Arabs or Russians buy Liverpool as a plaything making you a joke club, the only other people that will are someone looking to make a return on their investment or someone with a better credit rating then these goons as 300-600 million isnt to be thrown away so even if they are sold theyre going to be in a similar position ... ie the clubs money going to someone elses bank balance ... shame really as Liverpool were always renowned as being a well run club!

[carmine]

We battered Fulham tbh....good keeping kept them in it.....and the fact that we have no fe#kin decent back-up for Torres LOL.

To be fair, if you want to challenge with us for a europa place next season you will have to strengthen the whole squad and Torres won't be easy to replace

[StevieH]

some bad news on the torres front. he needs a knee op and the choice at the minute is play the rest of the season, miss the world cup or miss the rest of the season, play the world cup. guess which way this one is going to pan out?

[mrbojangles]

some bad news on the torres front. he needs a knee op and the choice at the minute is play the rest of the season, miss the world cup or miss the rest of the season, play the world cup. guess which way this one is going to pan out?

If you end up needing to sell him. IMO he's better off on the world stage and thus upping his price. but that won't help you guys out at the minute.

[alfieconn]

some bad news on the torres front. he needs a knee op and the choice at the minute is play the rest of the season, miss the world cup or miss the rest of the season, play the world cup. guess which way this one is going to pan out?

With your man in charge the second option, if you had old red nose in charge it would be the first option , every other manager who knows.

[MSingh]

some bad news on the torres front. he needs a knee op and the choice at the minute is play the rest of the season, miss the world cup or miss the rest of the season, play the world cup. guess which way this one is going to pan out?

Wow, huge news that...

[StevieH]

If you end up needing to sell him. IMO he's better off on the world stage and thus upping his price. but that won't help you guys out at the minute.

we might end up having to sell him and we'd most likely see not a bean of the cash to reinvest. because we're fuc_ked.

With your man in charge the second option, if you had old red nose in charge it would be the first option , every other manager who knows.

shouldn't even be a question, there's only one of the two teams which pays his wages. he'll have to miss out on a semi-final against his boyhood club and potentially a european final into the bargain. but i could understand him not wanting to miss the world cup.

[MSingh]

With your man in charge the second option, if you had old red nose in charge it would be the first option , every other manager who knows.

shouldn't even be a question, there's only one of the two teams which pays his wages. he'll have to miss out on a semi-final against his boyhood club and potentially a european final into the bargain. but i could understand him not wanting to miss the world cup.

It shouldn't be you're right Steve but for me the only option of the 2 you gave, was the last one..

I'm completely with you on what you say here, just don't think that it'll be how it pans out especially as the Spanish are, in my opinion, clear favourties to win the WC for the first time in their history & Torres knows that ( & he is a Spaniard, not Catalonian or Basque ), Benitez knows that & the Spanish tend to be a hel_l of a lot more patriotic than we are PLUS i get the vibe that especially after yesterday, your Season & even the Europa Cup Semi isn't on Torres's priority list, no matter who it's against..

But Steve, clear this up, what you're saying here is after the Scan at the Doctor's that was due today yeah, what you're saying is based on what the Doctor has said today & the results of the scan today ??

[davejonesbkk]

wow, liverpool are really screwed, I can't see them being a 'big 4' team again for a long time. I'm expecting a big name to leave in the summer too...

[Iceman778]

[

no i dont have it

[Iceman778]

wow it good to know that they linked up with you

[anothertorres]

hey, the new jerseys are nice. even though i'll miss the Carlsberg logo...

[kopite]

JUSTICE FOR THE 96

The history of Hillsborough begins with the deaths of 96 people and the physical and mental injury of countless others.

However it does not end there. The enormity of the Disaster goes beyond even this.

Hillsborough becomes a metaphor for British society today. It is a microcosm of how society operates. Viewed in this way the history of Hillsborough becomes the history of injustice, of cover-up, and collusion.

History will record 'Hillsborough' firmly within the bounds of civil rights, and the bereaved and survivors of the Disaster will long be remembered for the heroic stances they took against the might of bureaucratic forces in the name of justice.

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/index.htm

JUSTICE FOR ALL

John Alfred Anderson (62) Colin Mark Ashcroft (19) James Gary Aspinall (18) Kester Roger Marcus Ball (16) Gerard Bernard Patrick Baron (67) Simon Bell (17) Barry Sidney Bennett (26) David John Benson (22) David William Birtle (22) Tony Bland (22) Paul David Brady (21) Andrew Mark Brookes (26) Carl Brown (18) David Steven Brown (25) Henry Thomas Burke (47) Peter Andrew Burkett (24) Paul William Carlile (19) Raymond Thomas Chapman (50) Gary Christopher Church (19) Joseph Clark (29) Paul Clark (18) Gary Collins (22) Stephen Paul Copoc (20) Tracey Elizabeth Cox (23) James Philip Delaney (19) Christopher Barry Devonside (18) Christopher Edwards (29) Vincent Michael Fitzsimmons (34) Thomas Steven Fox (21) Jon-Paul Gilhooley (10) Barry Glover (27) Ian Thomas Glover (20) Derrick George Godwin (24) Roy Harry Hamilton (34) Philip Hammond (14) Eric Hankin (33) Gary Harrison (27) Stephen Francis Harrison (31) Peter Andrew Harrison (15) David Hawley (39) James Robert Hennessy (29) Paul Anthony Hewitson (26) Carl Darren Hewitt (17) Nicholas Michael Hewitt (16) Sarah Louise Hicks (19) Victoria Jane Hicks (15) Gordon Rodney Horn (20) Arthur Horrocks (41) Thomas Howard (39) Thomas Anthony Howard (14) Eric George Hughes (42) Alan Johnston (29) Christine Anne Jones (27) Gary Philip Jones (18) Richard Jones (25) Nicholas Peter Joynes (27) Anthony Peter Kelly (29) Michael David Kelly (38) Carl David Lewis (18) David William Mather (19) Brian Christopher Mathews (38) Francis Joseph McAllister (27) John McBrien (18) Marion Hazel McCabe (21) Joseph Daniel McCarthy (21) Peter McDonnell (21) Alan McGlone (28) Keith McGrath (17) Paul Brian Murray (14) Lee Nicol (14) Stephen Francis O’Neill (17) Jonathon Owens (18) William Roy Pemberton (23) Carl William Rimmer (21) David George Rimmer (38) Graham John Roberts (24) Steven Joseph Robinson (17) Henry Charles Rogers (17) Colin Andrew Hugh William Sefton (23) Inger Shah (38) Paula Ann Smith (26) Adam Edward Spearritt (14) Philip John Steele (15) David Leonard Thomas (23) Patrik John Thompson (35) Peter Reuben Thompson (30) Stuart Paul William Thompson (17) Peter Francis Tootle (21) Christopher James Traynor (26) Martin Kevin Traynor (16) Kevin Tyrrell (15) Colin Wafer (19) Ian David Whelan (19) Martin Kenneth Wild (29) Kevin Daniel Williams (15) Graham John Wright (17)

Edited April 15, 2010 by kopite

[StevieH]

said kopite. the below is a good piece from david conn, hopefully the new enquiry will be able to reveal some of the cover-ups which everyone pretty much knows took place and one day there may be justice for the 96.

Bishop's goal is to tell full story of Hillsborough

The bishop of Liverpool chairs a panel that will seek answers about the tragedy that scarred English football

David Conn

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/david-c...lsborough-panel

Half an hour into talking to James Jones, the Anglican bishop of Liverpool, about his role as chair of the panel seeking to establish the truth about the Hillsborough disaster, a familiar thought intrudes. It is, along with the other emotions Hillsborough has always provoked – horror, grief, shame, outrage – one which has only deepened in the years since, as English football has extravagantly rebuilt, hosting its FA Cup semi-finals now at plush, £757m Wembley. The thought is disbelief. That at a semi-final one sunny April in modern times, 96 people, mostly young, really did lose their lives.

Tomorrow it will be a year since Andy Burnham, then the minister for culture, media and sport, addressed the Hillsborough 20th anniversary memorial service. The attendance, 30,000, astonished everybody, and the nation witnessed his words of sympathy drowned out by cries for justice.

"When you saw that reaction," Jones reflects, over a cup of tea at his comfortable Bishop's Lodge in south Liverpool, "you realised this was a very, very deep wound in the body of this community. It suggested to me there were deep unresolved questions which needed to be addressed."

Burnham, with Maria Eagle, the junior justice minister, had called before the anniversary for all official documents relating to Hillsborough to be released, but he decided he should not stress that in his speech at the memorial service. The crowd's reaction, protesting that this government had done too little to resolve the unanswered questions over Hillsborough and accusations of a South Yorkshire police cover-up, in fact worked in Burnham's favour. It powerfully demonstrated to Gordon Brown and his cabinet the resentment still burning in Liverpool, prompting them to respond.

The result, after months of discussions with the home secretary, Alan Johnson, and intensive negotiations with the Hillsborough Family Support Group (HFSG), is a process much more substantial than simply publishing all documents relevant to the disaster. Having considered how such disclosure, by South Yorkshire police, the Yorkshire ambulance service, the Sheffield coroner and Sheffield Wednesday among other bodies, could answer the families' enduring questions, the government invited a group of experts to order and assess the documents.

That produced the nine-person Hillsborough Independent Panel (see right), chaired by Jones, which includes former senior police officers, medical, legal, media and archive specialists, and Professor Phil Scraton, whose book, Hillsborough: The Truth, concluded in 1999 that South Yorkshire police did seek to cover up their culpability for causing the disaster. Scraton has been invited by the home secretary to take a leading role in ultimately writing the panel's report, with Paul Leighton, the retired former deputy chief constable of Northern Ireland, and Dr Bill Kirkup, the Department of Health's former associate chief medical officer.

The panel's terms of reference, issued by the Home Office in December, crucially include the responsibility to write a report which will: "Illustrate how the information disclosed adds to public understanding of the tragedy and its aftermath." That, Jones says, clearly represents a duty to examine what the archives reveal of Hillsborough's most bitterly contested areas.

"We are aiming to ensure the maximum possible disclosure," he says emphatically. "Then with that information, to write a fuller story than has been told to this point. We are hoping, absolutely, that we can tell as near to the full story as possible."

In a country where the church is rarely involved with such investigative processes, a bishop may be considered an unexpected choice as chair. However, in this, his first full interview since accepting the post in December, Jones makes clear he believes the task falls very firmly within his duties as bishop.

"I know people knock the Church of England for being an established church," he acknowledges. "But the positive aspect of it is that an Anglican priest has a responsibility to everybody in the community, not just those who go to church. I've taken it on because I have a pastoral responsibility to the bereaved, the families, whether they are church members or not."

At its first full meeting in February, the panel heard representations from the HFSG, to which 67 bereaved families are affiliated, the Hillsborough Justice Campaign (HJC), which represents several more families and many survivors, and also met Anne Williams, whose son, Kevin, aged 15, died at the semi-final. The panel has since been to Sheffield, to see some 600 boxes of documents held by South Yorkshire police and other public bodies, and to the National Archives at Kew in south‑west London.

They meet again on Thursday next week, 22 April, when the members will be expected to say, following this preliminary work and their own reading, which areas they believe most clearly demand investigation. Jones does not want to pre-empt that discussion by presenting his own list, but says the panel's role is certainly to follow up the issues which have outraged the families and sparked accusations of injustice and cover-up over two decades.

"We want to be led by the questions the families are asking," he says. That, he confirms, will include seeking detailed answers to what happened on the day of the disaster after 3.15pm, the time which the coroner, Dr Stefan Popper, determined as a "cut-off": his inquest heard no evidence about events after that time. Popper decided all the victims had suffered their fatal injuries by 3.15, but his decision has caused lasting agonies for the families. It meant most have never even been informed, in detail, what actually happened to their loved ones – where they were taken, what treatment they did or did not receive. In addition, no official process has ever considered whether people might have been saved had the response from the police and emergency services been better organised.

"That question – why 3.15? – has come up," Jones says. "I fully expect that to feature on the 22 April agenda. We will be having access to the ambulance service documents, which were not admitted to the inquest because they were after 3.15."

The two groups and Williams all raised "strongly", Jones says, the allegation of an attempted cover-up by South Yorkshire police. Lord Justice Taylor, in his official report into the disaster, emphatically stated that the principal cause was police mismanagement of the crowd and rejected the force's case that Liverpool fans were responsible because of drunken bad behaviour. Years later it emerged, discovered first by Scraton, that shortly after the disaster, senior officers had instructed junior officers on duty that day to rewrite their statements about what happened. Often the order was to stress misbehaviour by supporters and remove comments critical of the police's own work.

The families consider that to have been part of a cover-up attempt and have long campaigned to be told the extent of it, the names of those senior officers, and what their instructions were. The force has always denied that the changing of the statements amounted to a cover-up and the 1998 "scrutiny" by Lord Justice Stewart-Smith reached the same conclusion.

"The families have asked us if we will see, and they will see, the original documents," Jones says. "Our response is that we will be seeking the maximum possible disclosure. That is something we will certainly have on the table on 22 April."

The families have also always seen as part of the cover-up the removal of a CCTV tape from inside the Hillsborough control room on the evening of the disaster. "That was mentioned," Jones agrees, saying the panel will investigate the incident for which no culprit has ever been identified.

The families believe, too, that South Yorkshire police had high-level government support despite the Taylor finding. The then prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, visited Hillsborough the day after the disaster and was briefed by the chief constable, Peter Wright. Thatcher's press secretary, Bernard Ingham, has since said publicly and unapologetically that he "learned on the day" that the disaster was caused not by the police, but by "a tanked-up mob" of Liverpool supporters. The families have asked the panel to examine official records of Wright's briefing, to establish what he said to Thatcher about the disaster's cause, and how she responded. "That has been raised," Jones confirms, "and that is the sort of question we will follow up."

Ever since the inquest in 1990, the families have also sought to understand the involvement of an officer from the West Midlands police, the force appointed to investigate the disaster. Detective Superintendent Stanley Beechey was at the time on "non‑operational duties" after the disbanding of the notorious serious crime squad, of which he was a former head. Yet at the inquest, he played a senior role, assisting the coroner. "The families have mentioned that," Jones confirms.

The disclosure of official documents in these most contentious areas represents a huge step forward for the Hillsborough campaign. The limitation of the process, Jones acknowledges, is that it has no power to recommend further action, such as prosecutions or disciplinary action, if any new wrongdoing is discovered.

"We are not an inquiry, and we recognise that that disappoints," he says. "But the phrase I have used with the families is that truth has its own pressure, and that the fullest truth told will bring its own pressure."

The implication is clearly that if the panel's report does expose further culpability for what happened on the day, or in the official response which followed, the families themselves can call persuasively for action to be taken.

Jones is very firm that although the Labour government, which has set up this process, could be voted out in the forthcoming election, the panel's work will continue. "Given the momentum that has been established, it is inconceivable to me that anybody would want to pull the plug on this," he says. "If anybody should want to, they would have to reckon with a panel that would robustly resist."

The panel has been given secretarial and administrative support led by a senior civil servant, Ken Sutton, with funding, guaranteed to be adequate to complete the job satisfactorily, provided jointly by the Home Office, the Ministry of Justice, the Department of Health and that of Culture, Media and Sport. Given the mountain of documents to be read and catalogued, and a detailed report to write and agree, Jones says he expects the panel's work will take two years.

Trevor Hicks, the president of the HFSG, whose teenage daughters, Sarah and Victoria, died in the disaster, customarily cites research that miscarriages of justice take on average 26 years to overturn, and says he hopes Hillsborough will come in, finally, a little under that. Asked if Hicks has put that to him, Jones smiles. Then he replies: "I would not presume to say to the families of the 96 what to expect out of this. Except that we will do our job, and we will ensure the fullest story is told."

[sharecropper]

If this turns out to be true, I am sure Liverpool fans will be dancing with delight. For the rest of us, hoping transfer king, tactical genius and world class club to mid-table anonymity resizer Rafa could wreak his "magic" there for another season, it represents bad news.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...-Liverpool.html

[StevieH]

it's the daily mail, of course it's not true. rafa's agent didn't meet with juve in milan, it was invented by an italian newspaper and of course then passed off as fact and an 'exclusive' by that worthless rag.

[sharecropper]

it's the daily mail, of course it's not true. rafa's agent didn't meet with juve in milan, it was invented by an italian newspaper and of course then passed off as fact and an 'exclusive' by that worthless rag.

I sincerely hope you are right!

[alfieconn]

According to British news sources the scousers have officially been put up for sale.

[bkkjames]

According to British news sources the scousers have officially been put up for sale.

following ashleys example. why didnt they do this two months ago when CL qualification was possibility.

[StevieH]

According to British news sources the scousers have officially been put up for sale.

well we're certainly available for the right price. unfortunately the price the two frauds are demanding is around £600m.

[StevieH]

dupe

Edited April 16, 2010 by StevieH

[StevieH]

According to British news sources the scousers have officially been put up for sale.

following ashleys example. why didnt they do this two months ago when CL qualification was possibility.

how would that have been any different?

[bkkjames]

According to British news sources the scousers have officially been put up for sale.

following ashleys example. why didnt they do this two months ago when CL qualification was possibility.

how would that have been any different?

I might pay more a club that is in the champions league (=more revenue) next year. You ok today mate?

anyways the story below..

Tom Hicks & George Gillett confirm Liverpool is for sale as Martin Broughton appointed chairman

Barclays capital to advise on sale of club...

By Zack Wilson

16 Apr 2010 09:20:00

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* Liverpool

Liverpool's controversial owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett confirmed today that they are looking to walk away from the club, and have appointed a new chairman to help find a buyer.

The club confirmed the appointment of Martin Broughton as chairman and also that Barclays Capital are to advise the Reds' current co-owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, on the sale of the club.

"Liverpool Football Club today announced that Martin Broughton has been appointed as chairman with immediate effect," a statement on the Reds' official website reads.

"The new chairman will oversee a formal sale process launched by current owners, Thomas Hicks and George Gillett Jr.

"Following numerous expressions of interest from third parties, the club has engaged Barclays Capital to advise on the sale process. The club has the full support of its existing bankers for this process and has financing in place which will fully support the club's operations."

Hicks and Gillett also confirmed that their tenure at Anfield was on the way to being over, and looked forward to Broughton taking the club forward.

"Owning Liverpool Football Club over these past three years has been a rewarding and exciting experience for us and our families," a statement read.

"Having grown the club this far we have now decided together to look to sell the club to owners committed to take the club through its next level of growth and development.

"We are delighted that Martin Broughton has agreed to take the position of chairman, working alongside the club's excellent senior management team.

"Martin is a distinguished business leader of excellent judgment and with a great reputation. He is a genuine football supporter and will seek to oversee the sales process in the best interests of the club and its supporters."

The club also insisted that plans for a new stadium would continue to go ahead.

Broughton, who became chairman of British Airways in 2004 and chaired the British Horseracing Board from 2004-2007, was delighted to have been appointed to his new role at Anfield.

"I am excited and honoured to be taking up this position," he said.

"Liverpool is a great club with a fantastic history. I will run this sale process in the right way, for the benefit of the club and its fans.

"Liverpool is one of the world's greatest clubs and my aim is to try and ensure that we find new owners who are able to build on the club's recent improved financial performance in order to help deliver sporting success."

Jay McKenna, a representative of Reds supporters' group Spirit of Shankly, welcomed the news.

"I think fans will most certainly be pleased that Tom Hicks and George Gillett have finally done what we've asked them to do for quite a while now and that's put Liverpool Football Club up for sale," he told Sky Sports News.

"They haven't been fit and proper owners, and they've been allowed over the past couple of seasons to allow Liverpool to stagnate and stand still.

"Hopefully this will be the beginning of the end of their reign at Liverpool Football Club but it's certainly not the beginning of the end for questions for fans and they'll continue I think.

"We'd like to see proper owners brought in. Owners who will do the right thing for Liverpool Football Club, who will stick to promises and won't tell us lies.

"We'd like to see owners who let Liverpool Football club move forward on the pitch rather then talk about shennanigans off the pitch."

[sharecropper]

"We'd like to see proper owners brought in. Owners who will do the right thing for Liverpool Football Club, who will stick to promises and won't tell us lies.

"We'd like to see owners who let Liverpool Football club move forward on the pitch rather then talk about shennanigans off the pitch."

Cue years of green and gold-style faux football socialism; I hope.

I agree with Bkkjames - they have spectacularly mis-timed the sale. Selling with a whopper ptice tag when they are likely to miss 4th place and CL next season, Rafa's loyalty can by no means be guaranteed, and when the squad needs a clear-out may not quite be in newcastle's territory, but it doesn't look like a desperately attractive deal.

Maybe they are gambling on some good global publicity assuming they will win the Mickey Mouse Europa Trophy.

[Zstarx]

I agree with you Sharecropper But how good a manager is Rafa, Torres was a good signing, Aquilani is awful for the money. Liverpool are a team living on their past glories. Simple as that

[Penkoprod]

"We'd like to see proper owners brought in. Owners who will do the right thing for Liverpool Football Club, who will stick to promises and won't tell us lies.

"We'd like to see owners who let Liverpool Football club move forward on the pitch rather then talk about shennanigans off the pitch."

Cue years of green and gold-style faux football socialism; I hope.

I agree with Bkkjames - they have spectacularly mis-timed the sale. Selling with a whopper ptice tag when they are likely to miss 4th place and CL next season, Rafa's loyalty can by no means be guaranteed, and when the squad needs a clear-out may not quite be in newcastle's territory, but it doesn't look like a desperately attractive deal.

Maybe they are gambling on some good global publicity assuming they will win the Mickey Mouse Europa Trophy.

Or it could be that they are trading on the name of "Liverpool FC" and hope that people will remember past glories to stump up the cash.

Fact (or trouble) is, is that, like many other great names and institutions that are in a period of stagnation, no one WILL stump up adequate cash for them, when the returns are looking less and less each year.

I keep asking for evidence of so called "progress" some on here go on and on about, and no one seems able to supply it. So heres the record of the past 10 seasons (i could go back further, but its too depressing tbh) so all can see

2000-2001: 3rd in Prem UEFA Cup, FA Cup, Football League Cup, European Super Cup

2001-2002: 2nd in Prem no trophies

2002-2003: 5th in Prem Football League Cup

2003-2004: 4th in Prem no trophies

2004-2005: 5th in Prem UEFA Champions League, European Super Cup,

2005-2006: 3rd in Prem FA Cup

2006-2007: 3rd in Prem no trophies

2007-2008: 4th in Prem no trophies

2008-2009: 2nd in Prem no trophies

2009-2010: TBC, but 4th is best we can hope for, but looking more and more unlikely by each passing day/game, and a chance at a second tier European trophy to keep the deluded teleclappers happy

I'll leave space for the straw-clutchers to fill in details of goals scored in a season, points gained in a season etc, etc, but the above dont make very good reading, or, for that matter show any REAL progress. More a plateau where we have been for longer than i care to remember, and it AINT going to get better any time soon. More a gentle slide to mid table mediocrity.

Penkoprod

[sharecropper]

I agree with you Sharecropper But how good a manager is Rafa, Torres was a good signing, Aquilani is awful for the money. Liverpool are a team living on their past glories. Simple as that

A handsome couple of owners though.

Maybe the sale should be subject to a warning. "Owning Liverpool may be harmful to your good looks".

[StevieH]

According to British news sources the scousers have officially been put up for sale.

following ashleys example. why didnt they do this two months ago when CL qualification was possibility.

how would that have been any different?

I might pay more a club that is in the champions league (=more revenue) next year. You ok today mate?

anyways the story below..

projected revenues have always been worked into any proposed sale price and either way what hicks and gillett have been demanding has been too high for anybody. what this hopefully does is add more pressure to them two to take a lower bid since RBS and barcap will be forcing the issue more based on the debt.

can't wait to see the back of these two charlatans but i'm still wary about who might take over from them.