Proof Of Medical Insurance Proposed For 1 Year Visa

[givenall]

Like they really care if expat get sick and they take care of them now if they are not insured.

They probably will sell the insurance so another way to make money

[SOTIRIOS]

...do you think you will be charged the same rate as a Thai......

(...another opportunity to gouge foreigners....)

[Hunter88]

Countries like Canada, America and others, have medical insurance for older people. For non emergencies, all one needs is a plane ticket.

Farangs who who have unpaid medical bills for longer than a predetermined period of time could be subject to deportation. After all, who has the right to incur costs to a foreign country?

On the other had, it's a great "out" for those who want to runaway from wife,girlfriends, children and unpaid costs and bills. Then the Thai government can support those left behind. ACTIONS have CONSEQUENCES.

[rsumner]

What if marry Thai. Do you then get government insurance ? I have been to government hospitals many times in Sriracha and Sattahip. Every time i paid the bill which is very little compared to private hospitals. Even with the surchagre for being non Thai.

Edited May 5, 2013 by rsumner

[Utley]

I really don't think that forcing expats to purchase medical insurance would accomplish anything as the insurers would simply exclude all pre-existing conditions. That leaves little else to be covered in most cases.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Apparently there are several health insurers that do provide lifelong health insurance. I am told PIH, NZI and Thaivivat do this. BUPA and LMG have the options for policy holders. The requirement is that the policy holder has to ask for the coverage option before the cutoff date which can range from age 60 to 75.

The real issue as to why elderly people do not have the coverage is one of cost. People either do not want to pay the premium, or do not have the money with which to do so. The private insurers charge a premium commensurate with the risk. Elderly people have high health care costs and as they age those costs increase.

It is unreasonable and downright ludicrous to expect Thailand to subsidize the health care of foreigners. Why should Thailand support or subsidize a health insurance program for what is ostensibly a high risk pool of foreigners? Thailand can't even pay for the care of its poor people, and now some expect Thailand to pay for foreign pensioners? Sorry, but it is unlikely to happen.

I will agree with GK about this... As for LMG, as a holder of one of their medical policies, they do guarantee the "right" to continue coverage into your advanced years, in their words "lifetime," provided you've already signed up with them and kept your policy in force prior to a certain age.

However, what they don't guarantee is the premiums for doing that. Last time I looked at LMG's rate sheet, they had posted rates for various age bands that topped out at the 61 to 65 years band. Then, beyond that, "For ages 66 and above, quotation will be provided upon request."

But as to the broader issue, it's certainly reasonable that the Thai public health system, while open to farangs, shouldn't have to shoulder the direct cost of providing medical care for them because they're uninsured or under-insured. And I don't find anything unreasonable about the government adopting some kind of insurance requirement associated with tourists and long-stay residends here, provided there's some accommodation available for those who can't obtain insurance through the normal means.

It does seem, from reading the posts here on TV over a period of time, that there are a lot of farangs here who consciously choose to forego medical insurance and say they have covered their potential medical exposure through the availability of their own personal funds. Whether those assumptions and expectations are realistic and well-founded seems to be a question.

Clearly, there have been any number of documented cases where farangs have ended up in Thai hospitals without any personal resources to support them. But who are they? Uninsured tourists? Expats who've overrun their insurance coverage? Expats who have been refused coverage due to pre-existing conditions. I don't think we know. But the Thai government and the impacted hospitals certainly do.

I suppose expecting them to use that information to tailor an appropriate solution to the right problem might be too much to ask.

[harryfrompattaya]

If expats are forced to buy insurance who will buy a house or anything in Thailand

Once a again a insurance policy that is worth anything will cost at least 20 thousand baht a month

And will the medical care be as good as the care your home country that is free I doubt it.

[harryfrompattaya]

I believe if this is passed their will less farangs in Pattaya and Bangkok Pattaya Hosipal will make less money from Farangs because the insurance companies will not be paying so fast and at such high rates

Bangkok Pattaya Hosipal will do everything they can do to kept it the way it is more money for them is their goal

[Soutpeel]

It amaze me why someone who wants to move to Thailand for retirement reasons would not plan in advance for health insurance before even coming here. That should be one of the top things to consider at that age before making a move.

Such a smug attitude clearly written by someone who doesn't know how it feels to be UNINSURABLE.

Sorry Jing...98% of the time I agree with everything you say..on this occasion No...people moving to foreign countries and having no recourse to free medical treatment by virtue of the fact they are not a national of that country should make provision in their planning to get this sorted out prior to getting there

[Jingthing]

It amaze me why someone who wants to move to Thailand for retirement reasons would not plan in advance for health insurance before even coming here. That should be one of the top things to consider at that age before making a move.

Such a smug attitude clearly written by someone who doesn't know how it feels to be UNINSURABLE.

Sorry Jing...98% of the time I agree with everything you say..on this occasion No...people moving to foreign countries and having no recourse to free medical treatment by virtue of the fact they are not a national of that country should make provision in their planning to get this sorted out prior to getting there

Yes they should magically buy something they are not allowed to buy. Amazing expats!

[Anon999]

That's the problem. A large percentage of people are uninsurable by private insurance policies. If the Thai government wants to require this AND be fair (they are not required to be fair of course) they will find a way to either offer some kind of policy to ALL including the uninsurable OR as Malaysia does proof of application and DENIAL will justify an EXEMPTION from the requirement.

Because of these issues, causing a mass exodus and indeed bad international publicity that long time retirees will be booted out and forced to liquidate assets such as real estate under duress, that I don't think Thailand will ACTUALLY do this. They could solve this with the Malaysia style exemption for proven insurance REJECTION, but that seems against the general inflexible nature of Thai immigration rules.

Of course, they could just do something really stupid and rash (it happens sometimes), not even understanding the mass exodus and bad international publicity they would be creating by rashly passing such a rule without an offer of coverage for ALL applicants or a rejection exemption exception.

One way to go, ant they have done this with other new immigration rules, is to grandfather in those already on their "retirement" visa extensions and enforce the new rule for all new applications. Then at least uninsured or indigent faring medical costs would be limited to only those geezers currently retired in Thailand and who cant afford their own care. New applicants would be on notice that if/when they could no longer obtain private medical insurance (or maybe meet some increased bank account threshold) that their retirement visa would not be renewed.

You are obviously not nearing the age when medical insurance is not renewable or is unobtainable for one reason or another. There is no choice in the matter regardless of you health status and from personal experience the insurance companies premiums are the same for the 100% healthy as they are not interested in the results of medical check-ups.

There are a vast number of farang who are over 70 living in LoS and many who have had little or no significant call on the government hospitals. Furthermore you still have to pay for any doctors, nurses, treatment, medication and rooms, etc., during your stay. What happens about those who are impecunious I have no idea, however, the hospital will always ask for a contact phone number and will presumably require that person to pay the bill if the patient is unable to. Certainly in more than one instance I am aware the the wife of a farang who has passed away has been obliged to settle the bill otherwise the body will not be released.

The implication for expats seems to be overplayed here, just like most other subjects. It would appear that tourists are the focal point as they are the ones who quite often do not have medical insurance and/or take advantage of the Thai healthcare system.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Anon999

[Ianatlarge]

So more paperwork, more photocopying (no edocs), more things to go wrong, when applying for a visa extension?!

I fully agree that tourists and expats should provide for their own medical needs. It is grossly unfair to expect the people of Thailand to pay, however, I don't believe that more government regulation will solve this problem. First, is it a big problem, overall, compared to the money (and expertise) brought into the Kingdom by tourists and expats? Is it a 'easy attention grabbing headline'— storm in a teacup? Second, what about the expats's home governments, most of these have some form of medical provision for their citizens, can they not contribute? I would suspect that it is cheaper to pay these hospital bills in Thailand than at home. Third, not a big fan of the expensive and inefficient usa style of medical insurance. A controversial proposal. Should the farang of Thailand band together to set up a relief fund for their comrades who fall on hard times? haha Not everyone who does not have insurance is automatically and evil slacker. People have problems and people make mistakes.

Here is a suggestion. The figure of 7 million baht for one province was given. Say $200k, and lets say ten provinces have that level of debt. So ~$2 million a year. Even tripled, not a big wad of cash. Put a small proportion of the airport departure tax to good work, or put some of that money for the visa extension to the same purpose.

If Thailand wants a serious problem to consider, lets look at Bangkok. It is sinking an inch a year!

Edited May 5, 2013 by Ianatlarge

[hellodolly]

That's the problem. A large percentage of people are uninsurable by private insurance policies. If the Thai government wants to require this AND be fair (they are not required to be fair of course) they will find a way to either offer some kind of policy to ALL including the uninsurable OR as Malaysia does proof of application and DENIAL will justify an EXEMPTION from the requirement.

Because of these issues, causing a mass exodus and indeed bad international publicity that long time retirees will be booted out and forced to liquidate assets such as real estate under duress, that I don't think Thailand will ACTUALLY do this. They could solve this with the Malaysia style exemption for proven insurance REJECTION, but that seems against the general inflexible nature of Thai immigration rules.

Of course, they could just do something really stupid and rash (it happens sometimes), not even understanding the mass exodus and bad international publicity they would be creating by rashly passing such a rule without an offer of coverage for ALL applicants or a rejection exemption exception.

I agree with you to be fair they should offer some sort of policy.

[Soutpeel]

It amaze me why someone who wants to move to Thailand for retirement reasons would not plan in advance for health insurance before even coming here. That should be one of the top things to consider at that age before making a move.

Such a smug attitude clearly written by someone who doesn't know how it feels to be UNINSURABLE.

Sorry Jing...98% of the time I agree with everything you say..on this occasion No...people moving to foreign countries and having no recourse to free medical treatment by virtue of the fact they are not a national of that country should make provision in their planning to get this sorted out prior to getting there

Yes they should magically buy something they are not allowed to buy. Amazing expats!

OK so lets give an alternative then and forgo the insurance route...would retiree's be prepared to lodge a bond with the Thai goverment that could be used cover unforsee events while they are living in Thailand, ie would cover some of all the medical expenses they may not be able to pay for, repatriation if required, or even burial... ?

ie the THB 800k they need to shown immigration every year, is held by the goverment/immigration in bond and you cant get at it until you leave the country permanently

By going this route we have now eliminated any exclusions our more senior citizens may face when trying to purchase medical insurance

[Soutpeel]

You are another one with no idea and Jingthing is quite correct

Why do I have have I no idea...because I am planning ahead for my Autum/Winter years ?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If expats are forced to buy insurance who will buy a house or anything in Thailand

Once a again a insurance policy that is worth anything will cost at least 20 thousand baht a month

And will the medical care be as good as the care your home country that is free I doubt it.

Not sure how you reach that conclusion, but of course medical insurance rates here are largely keyed to the insured's age.

In looking at LMG's rate, for their MaxiCare policy (that provides up to 5M baht per disability, 20M baht policy lifetime and inpatient hospital benefit up to 8,000 baht per day), their rates range from 50,000 to 60,000 baht per year for someone in their mid 50s up to 75,000 baht or so per year for someone 61 to 65. Inpatient and outpatient coverage with pretty much no deductible and full coverage within those limits.

That's a far cry from 20,000 baht per month for a medical insurance policy aimed at someone living in Thailand.

LMG also has a higher level Ultra plan that provides 20M per disability, 80M lifetime and up to 16,000 baht per day inpatient hospital benefit, and that plan tops out at about 120,000 baht per year for the 61 to 65 age range -- which works out to only 10,000 baht per month, if someone wanted that higher level of coverage.

On the other hand, for the budget minded, they also offer premium discounts of between 20 and 40% off those rates for doing things like excluding outpatient coverage or accepting coverage deductibles. Excluding outpatient coverage yields a 20% discount, while accepting an annual 40,000 baht deductible on the policy yields a 25% premium discount.

Lastly, as an American in his 50s, I have NO free medical coverage back home (although I'd have the prospect of some coverage in later years). And compared to U.S. health insurance rates, Thailand's rates are a bargain.

Edited May 5, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Mario2008]

flames deleted. Keep it civil.

[Anon999]

You are another one with no idea and Jingthing is quite correct

Why do I have have I no idea...because I am planning ahead for my Autum/Winter years ?

No, because you will be unable to get medical insurance cover once you reach a certain age, like it or lump it. Check with all the brokers and you'll find out. Furthermore the cost of the policy is likely to increase with your age. It is not unknown for the premium to be increased by over 60% in one year, it happened about 5 years ago.

[david555]

You are another one with no idea and Jingthing is quite correct

Why do I have have I no idea...because I am planning ahead for my Autum/Winter years ?

No, because you will be unable to get medical insurance cover once you reach a certain age, like it or lump it. Check with all the brokers and you'll find out. Furthermore the cost of the policy is likely to increase with your age. It is not unknown for the premium to be increased by over 60% in one year, it happened about 5 years ago.

another option is not to remove your home country inscription/adress , so you stay insured by your home country gov. insurance, limited in my case to a total of 3 months maximum hospitalisation , on condition you not become a resident in that foreign country ....

.

minus is that first you have to pay yourself and later claim back with the documentation , even in that option repatriation is included ...... , but must stay having a legal adres in home country

[Anon999]

If expats are forced to buy insurance who will buy a house or anything in Thailand

Once a again a insurance policy that is worth anything will cost at least 20 thousand baht a month

And will the medical care be as good as the care your home country that is free I doubt it.

Not sure how you reach that conclusion, but of course medical insurance rates here are largely keyed to the insured's age.

In looking at LMG's rate, for their MaxiCare policy (that provides up to 5M baht per disability, 20M baht policy lifetime and inpatient hospital benefit up to 8,000 baht per day), their rates range from 50,000 to 60,000 baht per year for someone in their mid 50s up to 75,000 baht or so per year for someone 61 to 65. Inpatient and outpatient coverage with pretty much no deductible and full coverage within those limits.

That's a far cry from 20,000 baht per month for a medical insurance policy aimed at someone living in Thailand.

LMG also has a higher level Ultra plan that provides 20M per disability, 80M lifetime and up to 16,000 baht per day inpatient hospital benefit, and that plan tops out at about 120,000 baht per year for the 61 to 65 age range -- which works out to only 10,000 baht per month, if someone wanted that higher level of coverage.

On the other hand, for the budget minded, they also offer premium discounts of between 20 and 40% off those rates for doing things like excluding outpatient coverage or accepting coverage deductibles. Excluding outpatient coverage yields a 20% discount, while accepting an annual 40,000 baht deductible on the policy yields a 25% premium discount.

Lastly, as an American in his 50s, I have NO free medical coverage back home (although I'd have the prospect of some coverage in later years). And compared to U.S. health insurance rates, Thailand's rates are a bargain.

And when you are over 65. What then?

[animatic]

Never-ending proposals that never happen

Hopefully that is true because that is better than a rash action without regard for considering the inhumane consequences.

The fact that they CAN change the rules in the middle of the game for long term settled retirees, in effect booting them out on SHORT NOTICE which in my view is questionable from a human rights angle, is the main reason I have been posting about how lousy it is that there is no possible path for long term retirees towards permanent residence status. First year, thirtieth year, exactly the same provisional status (more like LACK of status).

That said, Thailand COULD do the right thing and offer a government health insurance BUY IN scheme for retired expats. Other retirement visa destination countries do. I don't expect Thailand will though. I reckon most long term retirees here will share my pessimism about that.

Not that Thai bureaucrats ever make rash actions without regard for considering the inhumane consequences....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As noted above, farang in Thailand CAN get lifetime medical insurance, provided they sign up with their insurer prior to varying certain ages. And of course, that they can afford the premiums.

But yes, if someone waits until their late 60s to begin seeking medical insurance here or tries to change carriers at that advanced age, they may well find themselves locked out.

That's a very good reason for picking one of the several Thai insurers like LMG that DO offer lifetime coverage, and getting insured with them prior to their age cutoff.

Regarding the question above about LMG, my understanding is, they will commit to "lifetime" coverage assuming you begin coverage with them before a certain age. They publish standard premium rates for age bands up to 65 years. After that, presumably, they quote rates individually and of course higher. But at least, you have the choice of paying higher rates to maintain your coverage, as opposed to simply being denied coverage altogether.

Edited May 5, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[spermwhale]

I don't have a problem with this as we keep our medical insurance current, but there could be one glitch in timing.

Our retirement visas are renewed every April, while our medical insurance doesn't renew until August, so when we renew our visas, the insurance proof will only have 3 months of validity.

Perhaps demonstrating proof of current insurance with the 90 day reports would fix the glitch?

As always they like to have documentation up the ying yang, .... same crap every year ... so I'm sure if you have a history of being covered as you'd have to bring it in annually, I think they would accept that. Obviously, if you've had coverage for nine months, it means you keep your insurance current.

[Soutpeel]

You are another one with no idea and Jingthing is quite correct

Why do I have have I no idea...because I am planning ahead for my Autum/Winter years ?

No, because you will be unable to get medical insurance cover once you reach a certain age, like it or lump it. Check with all the brokers and you'll find out. Furthermore the cost of the policy is likely to increase with your age. It is not unknown for the premium to be increased by over 60% in one year, it happened about 5 years ago.

OK...so go and have a look at my post #105 then..I have suggested an alternative for retiree's who say they cant get medical insurance, so IMHO this would be a viable alternative to having mandatory medical insurance and it costs you nothing every year..

[Anon999]

As noted above, farang in Thailand CAN get lifetime medical insurance, provided they sign up with their insurer prior to varying certain ages. And of course, that they can afford the premiums.

But yes, if someone waits until their late 60s to begin seeking medical insurance here or tries to change carriers at that advanced age, they may well find themselves locked out.

That's a very good reason for picking one of the several Thai insurers like LMG that DO offer lifetime coverage, and getting insured with them prior to their age cutoff.

Do LMG consider 'lifetime' as ending at 80 or it there a rider on the policy about annual increases?

[Anon999]

You are another one with no idea and Jingthing is quite correct

Why do I have have I no idea...because I am planning ahead for my Autum/Winter years ?

No, because you will be unable to get medical insurance cover once you reach a certain age, like it or lump it. Check with all the brokers and you'll find out. Furthermore the cost of the policy is likely to increase with your age. It is not unknown for the premium to be increased by over 60% in one year, it happened about 5 years ago.

OK...so go and have a look at my post #105 then..I have suggested an alternative for retiree's who say they cant get medical insurance, so IMHO this would be a viable alternative to having mandatory medical insurance and it costs you nothing every year..

That will cover instances when the medical costs are within the value of the bond. However, a contact of mine was quoted 1m baht for balloon surgery a few years ago. What happens once the value of the bond is exhausted or doesn't cover the medical costs?

Edited May 5, 2013 by Anon999

[Anon999]

As noted above, farang in Thailand CAN get lifetime medical insurance, provided they sign up with their insurer prior to varying certain ages. And of course, that they can afford the premiums.

But yes, if someone waits until their late 60s to begin seeking medical insurance here or tries to change carriers at that advanced age, they may well find themselves locked out.

That's a very good reason for picking one of the several Thai insurers like LMG that DO offer lifetime coverage, and getting insured with them prior to their age cutoff.

Regarding the question above about LMG, my understanding is, they will commit to "lifetime" coverage assuming you begin coverage with them before a certain age. They publish standard premium rates for age bands up to 65 years. After that, presumably, they quote rates individually and of course higher. But at least, you have the choice of paying higher rates to maintain your coverage, as opposed to simply being denied coverage altogether.

Many expats do not retire until their due retirement age and in the UK that's 65. Consequently taking out a policy with a Thai insurer, some years before leaving your home country, would seem to be out of the question?

Edited May 5, 2013 by Anon999

[harryfrompattaya]

If expats are forced to buy insurance who will buy a house or anything in Thailand

Once a again a insurance policy that is worth anything will cost at least 20 thousand baht a month

And will the medical care be as good as the care your home country that is free I doubt it.

Not sure how you reach that conclusion, but of course medical insurance rates here are largely keyed to the insured's age.

In looking at LMG's rate, for their MaxiCare policy (that provides up to 5M baht per disability, 20M baht policy lifetime and inpatient hospital benefit up to 8,000 baht per day), their rates range from 50,000 to 60,000 baht per year for someone in their mid 50s up to 75,000 baht or so per year for someone 61 to 65. Inpatient and outpatient coverage with pretty much no deductible and full coverage within those limits.

That's a far cry from 20,000 baht per month for a medical insurance policy aimed at someone living in Thailand.

LMG also has a higher level Ultra plan that provides 20M per disability, 80M lifetime and up to 16,000 baht per day inpatient hospital benefit, and that plan tops out at about 120,000 baht per year for the 61 to 65 age range -- which works out to only 10,000 baht per month, if someone wanted that higher level of coverage.

On the other hand, for the budget minded, they also offer premium discounts of between 20 and 40% off those rates for doing things like excluding outpatient coverage or accepting coverage deductibles. Excluding outpatient coverage yields a 20% discount, while accepting an annual 40,000 baht deductible on the policy yields a 25% premium discount.

Lastly, as an American in his 50s, I have NO free medical coverage back home (although I'd have the prospect of some coverage in later years). And compared to U.S. health insurance rates, Thailand's rates are a bargain.

I happy to find out I was wrong Do you know any who sell the product it seems great

[Soutpeel]

That will cover instances when the medical costs are within the value of the bond. However, a contact of mine was quoted 1m baht for balloon surgery a few years ago. What happens once the value of the bond is exhausted or doesn't cover the medical costs?

then you fund the short fall, and if you exhaust the bond, you pay another THB 800k in on your annual renewal

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If expats are forced to buy insurance who will buy a house or anything in Thailand

Once a again a insurance policy that is worth anything will cost at least 20 thousand baht a month

And will the medical care be as good as the care your home country that is free I doubt it.

Not sure how you reach that conclusion, but of course medical insurance rates here are largely keyed to the insured's age.

In looking at LMG's rate, for their MaxiCare policy (that provides up to 5M baht per disability, 20M baht policy lifetime and inpatient hospital benefit up to 8,000 baht per day), their rates range from 50,000 to 60,000 baht per year for someone in their mid 50s up to 75,000 baht or so per year for someone 61 to 65. Inpatient and outpatient coverage with pretty much no deductible and full coverage within those limits.

That's a far cry from 20,000 baht per month for a medical insurance policy aimed at someone living in Thailand.

LMG also has a higher level Ultra plan that provides 20M per disability, 80M lifetime and up to 16,000 baht per day inpatient hospital benefit, and that plan tops out at about 120,000 baht per year for the 61 to 65 age range -- which works out to only 10,000 baht per month, if someone wanted that higher level of coverage.

On the other hand, for the budget minded, they also offer premium discounts of between 20 and 40% off those rates for doing things like excluding outpatient coverage or accepting coverage deductibles. Excluding outpatient coverage yields a 20% discount, while accepting an annual 40,000 baht deductible on the policy yields a 25% premium discount.

Lastly, as an American in his 50s, I have NO free medical coverage back home (although I'd have the prospect of some coverage in later years). And compared to U.S. health insurance rates, Thailand's rates are a bargain.

I happy to find out I was wrong Do you know any who sell the product it seems great

LMG isn't the only Thai health insurance carrier that offers "lifetime" coverage, if written before some certain age. But they're one of several that do.

LMG's main office for Thailand is located on Sukhumvit Rd in BKK, not far from the Asoke BTS station. But I'm not sure about their location presence in Pattaya.

I believe they will write policies directly. But I've always gone thru my English speaking Thai insurance broker here in BKK.

Here's a recent policy info sheet from them.

LMG Pacific Brochure-Rates 2010 Healthcare.pdf

http://www.lmgpacific.com/about_us

Their two Mega series health insurance products I referenced above:

http://www.lmgpacific.com/products/health_insurance/mega_series_individual_health

And a link on their website for getting a health insurance quotation:

http://www.lmgpacific.com/products/health_insurance/get_a_quote

Edited May 5, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK