Negotiating Sin Sot With A "upper Class" Family With Unreasonable Request.

[candypants]

so i come to a relationship with dozens of women under my belt and 5 or 6 long term relationships, and I am expected to judge my potential partner for having had two past relationships on record?

everybody has a right to a past, and yes, that includes women, even the thai ones.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Well To Do and Educated Thais dont ask Fereangs for Cash.Thats a Fact.

Well to do and educated Thais don't let their daughter sleep with foreigners, that's a fact.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

so i come to a relationship with dozens of women under my belt and 5 or 6 long term relationships, and I am expected to judge my potential partner for having had two past relationships on record?

If you're buying her, yes.

[transam]

so i come to a relationship with dozens of women under my belt and 5 or 6 long term relationships, and I am expected to judge my potential partner for having had two past relationships on record?

If you're buying her, yes.

Nooooo, he has a big belt. ...................................

[patongphil]

Well To Do and Educated Thais dont ask Fereangs for Cash.Thats a Fact.

Well to do and educated Thais don't let their daughter sleep with foreigners, that's a fact.

I know a few foreigners who went to Chula Uni and they ALL had no problem sleeping with the well to do and educated girls there with them!!

A few are now married into some very well to do BKK families!!

[transam]

Well To Do and Educated Thais dont ask Fereangs for Cash.Thats a Fact.

Well to do and educated Thais don't let their daughter sleep with foreigners, that's a fact.

I know a few foreigners who went to Chula Uni and they ALL had no problem sleeping with the well to do and educated girls there with them!!

A few are now married into some very well to do BKK families!!

But they didn't tell ma and pa about their prenup exploits eh.

[richard_smith237]

I still have a feeling that this is a test from MIL and that she somehow will change her mind even if my offer don’t give her any money for herself it will give her daughter and nice wedding, some gold for tradition and some money for us to start our new life and a secure future with me. All of this will be a test for my GF as well, and I will for sure see how important our future is to her, I know she will not turn on her mom completely but she can make it easier for her mom to see the truth on what kind of person I am and my intentions with her daughter.

I guess I will post some story on the final result; it might help someone else in the future.

I can predict the outcome of this "test".

The result will be you discover they care nothing about you, and everything about your money.

That's all they want, money, money, money.

If you don't give it, and plenty of it, you will be quickly shown the door.

I hope I'm wrong, so good luck anyway.

Don't judge everyone else by your own negative experiences....

My experience is highly positive, as is that of my friends who have married into educated 'well-to-do' families...

Good luck to Op, he seems switched on, his in laws should recognise and respect that.

Depends what you refer to as '' well to do family''. I am a well to do family too but.....

Well to do family (avoiding the overused and daft term 'hi-so')...

In my limited experience I would term a Family as 'Well to do' given most of the following circumstances : A family who generally wouldn't stand to benefit financially from a potential suitor for their daughter. i.e. They are already financially sound, own property, business, drive decent cars,etc, daughters are educated to Masters level.

[richard_smith237]

Well To Do and Educated Thais dont ask Fereangs for Cash.Thats a Fact.

Well to do and educated Thais don't let their daughter sleep with foreigners, that's a fact.

I know a few foreigners who went to Chula Uni and they ALL had no problem sleeping with the well to do and educated girls there with them!!

A few are now married into some very well to do BKK families!!

But they didn't tell ma and pa about their prenup exploits eh.

Of course they wouldn't... Thai daughters have to tell their parents some cracking porkie pies (lies)..

For the most part these daughters of 'well-to-do-families' live at home until married, so need some pretty effective excuses just to go away for the weekend...

A trip to the UK, holidays in Europe etc require some creative thinking.

Realistically the phrase "Don't ask me questions and I'll tell no lies" springs to mind - The parents often know what goes on because they did the same thing when they were young, but the facade of being a perfect daughter must be maintained, within some families there is often an illogical balance of what can be done, what should be done and what shouldn't be done with regards to exposing the parents to the boyfriend (regardless of his nationality).

[stiggy]

I would never pay a penny in Sin sot besides, if they (parents) couldn't accept that not my problem.

[richard_smith237]

I would never pay a penny in Sin sot besides, if they (parents) couldn't accept that not my problem.

Loosing a potential Wife is not a problem ? I suspect there are better ways for both parties to come out of this smelling of roses, but only if both parties have mutual respect for each other and their respective cultural differences... If the sin-sod is going to be returned, its hardly an issue. If the amount is ridiculous and to be kept then that may suggest a lack of respect or simple greed.

The best approach for any of these discussions with future inlaws is to communicate well, clearly and respectfully. Show strength and a preparedness to compromise fairly. A stubborn bloody minded approach will earn no respect, but that may be necessary as an end result once all other options have be carefully and considerately evaluated.

Imagine a situation reversed, one whereby a daughters boyfriend was inflexible and said ... 'this is the way its going to be, take it or leave it'...

Some posters are coming across with this attitude, it is therefore makes hardly surprising reading when I see topics such as 'I'm still just the Farang'...

We make our beds: be that as the cash cow or disrespected son in law and anywhere in-between. Most would like to shoot for 'respected and loved Son In Law'.... and I know many who have achieved this and it has little to do with money and a lot to do with showing understanding and respect (which of course is returned).

[stiggy]

If a potential wife refused to marry because of it , she wouldn't be wife potential to start with.

I eloped with my wife 18 years ago, parents went mad but down the track they are fine with us. In fact we are now very close.

I see marriage as between two people, those getting married. Stuff the rest and what they want, and the countless demands they normally make.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I would never pay a penny in Sin sot besides, if they (parents) couldn't accept that not my problem.

Loosing a potential Wife is not a problem ? I suspect there are better ways for both parties to come out of this smelling of roses, but only if both parties have mutual respect for each other and their respective cultural differences... If the sin-sod is going to be returned, its hardly an issue. If the amount is ridiculous and to be kept then that may suggest a lack of respect or simple greed.

I don't respect people who try to sell their children.

It's despicable.

[richard_smith237]

I would never pay a penny in Sin sot besides, if they (parents) couldn't accept that not my problem.

Loosing a potential Wife is not a problem ? I suspect there are better ways for both parties to come out of this smelling of roses, but only if both parties have mutual respect for each other and their respective cultural differences... If the sin-sod is going to be returned, its hardly an issue. If the amount is ridiculous and to be kept then that may suggest a lack of respect or simple greed.

I don't respect people who try to sell their children.

It's despicable.

If you only have the capacity to view this as parents selling their children then I understand your opinion and that of many others here that the whole idea of Sin-Sod is despicable. However, had we grown up in this culture we may all have had a better understanding and not be so quick to judge a whole nation of In-Laws as money grabbers...

What of the families who insist it is paid as part if culture, face etc, but also return it?

My inlaws insisted on sin-sod, I negotiated lightly, the son-sod was of course returned, a Rai of land in Bangkok was gifted to us (well my Wife as I can't own it). When meeting the inlaws it's now hugs and also a peck on the cheek from MIL... Had I played too hard with the sin-sod, or rather, had I paid heed to many of the negative posts on this forum my family life would be very different now and certainly more difficult or awkward than it is at present.

[MobileContent]

Well To Do and Educated Thais dont ask Fereangs for Cash.Thats a Fact.

Well to do and educated Thais don't let their daughter sleep with foreigners, that's a fact.

+1 correct - and not so well educated Thai's also don't let their daughters sleep with a Foreigner/Thai.

The parents that allow foreigners sleep with their daughters before marriage don't really follow Thai tradition and might be in for the money.

[Ace of Pop]

I would never pay a penny in Sin sot besides, if they (parents) couldn't accept that not my problem.

Loosing a potential Wife is not a problem ? I suspect there are better ways for both parties to come out of this smelling of roses, but only if both parties have mutual respect for each other and their respective cultural differences... If the sin-sod is going to be returned, its hardly an issue. If the amount is ridiculous and to be kept then that may suggest a lack of respect or simple greed.

I don't respect people who try to sell their children.

It's despicable.

If you only have the capacity to view this as parents selling their children then I understand your opinion and that of many others here that the whole idea of Sin-Sod is despicable. However, had we grown up in this culture we may all have had a better understanding and not be so quick to judge a whole nation of In-Laws as money grabbers...

What of the families who insist it is paid as part if culture, face etc, but also return it?

My inlaws insisted on sin-sod, I negotiated lightly, the son-sod was of course returned, a Rai of land in Bangkok was gifted to us (well my Wife as I can't own it). When meeting the inlaws it's now hugs and also a peck on the cheek from MIL... Had I played too hard with the sin-sod, or rather, had I paid heed to many of the negative posts on this forum my family life would be very different now and certainly more difficult or awkward than it is at present.

Who gives a dam what In Laws think.You chose a Lady, not a Family, as a Man they fit in with You. unless your on the Scrounge.

[somtampet]

Well To Do and Educated Thais dont ask Fereangs for Cash.Thats a Fact.

Well to do and educated Thais don't let their daughter sleep with foreigners, that's a fact.

I know a few foreigners who went to Chula Uni and they ALL had no problem sleeping with the well to do and educated girls there with them!!

A few are now married into some very well to do BKK families!!

why have chipolata when the educated want Frankfurter freom farang

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I would never pay a penny in Sin sot besides, if they (parents) couldn't accept that not my problem.

Loosing a potential Wife is not a problem ? I suspect there are better ways for both parties to come out of this smelling of roses, but only if both parties have mutual respect for each other and their respective cultural differences... If the sin-sod is going to be returned, its hardly an issue. If the amount is ridiculous and to be kept then that may suggest a lack of respect or simple greed.

I don't respect people who try to sell their children.

It's despicable.

If you only have the capacity to view this as parents selling their children then I understand your opinion and that of many others here that the whole idea of Sin-Sod is despicable. However, had we grown up in this culture we may all have had a better understanding and not be so quick to judge a whole nation of In-Laws as money grabbers...

What of the families who insist it is paid as part if culture, face etc, but also return it?

My inlaws insisted on sin-sod, I negotiated lightly, the son-sod was of course returned, a Rai of land in Bangkok was gifted to us (well my Wife as I can't own it). When meeting the inlaws it's now hugs and also a peck on the cheek from MIL... Had I played too hard with the sin-sod, or rather, had I paid heed to many of the negative posts on this forum my family life would be very different now and certainly more difficult or awkward than it is at present.

Less than 20 years ago it was acceptable for poor Thais to sell their 12 year old daughters to a brothel.

I don't think the parents asking for sin-sot are much better. Different game, but same ball park.

It may have worked out well for you, but how many Thai women still have to suffer being sold?

[Ace of Pop]

The Ferangs who have paid it , will defend, or try to justify it. A sort of No Loose Face thing.No ones posted here they regret it. Yet we all know someone who does.

[eezergood]

Pay it, but make it clear that -

• Visiting grandchildren is chaged at THB1000/hour & 1200 on weekends. Birthday gifts are to be negotiaited inadvance!
• Visiting your home must be booked inadvance with high season, low seaeon & peak season rates applied
• The loan of you wife, for their personal errands, are chargeable in line with a farang domestic - AUD45/hour plus expenses.
• Similarly phone calls are charged per 15 min blocks
• Visits to their home incurr a "call out fee" similar to that of a plumber - so on a sunday evening in a public holiday weekend this couls be THB3000/hr easily plus expenses.
• Any breach of these will result in a broken contract for your property & you have the right to claim back the purchase price ona pro rata basis.
• Finally agree the probation period & cool off clause, if these are not met then breach of contract.

[LawrenceChee]

I read many posted with the distaste to paying sin sod and am real puzzled

Obviously every culture has its share of money diggers and you stay clear of those no matter what nationality they are...anyone stupid enough to tangle with money grabber will add up to the sad stats worldwide of being suckered and rightly so stay bitter about their personal experiences

However if u have met someone in Asia and she is truly middle class with a level headed family ...you would be a fool to walk away just because of an age old custom or you must be too mule headed to understand the culture well

Negotiations is part and parcel of life in Asia and anyone who wants to change that is not realistic.

Middle class Thais or upper have by their own definition well monied to take care of themselves and perhaps in reality may have more that the potential foreign suitors

I know with mine, they have a comfortable house and their pension makes my own developed country plans look stupid.

They have started by reassuring me that they are not keen on my money, love their daughter and treasure her , take good care of her and that's good enough for them.

By all means pay a reasonable sin sot ; (no they refuse to be drawn into an amount) and all will be paid back the same night. I intend to fully honor their daughter come wedding day with a nice ceremony and a great amount of sin sot for show and start it right

Culture here dictates respect and if u think u are too important to bend to the rules ...it probably explains why many stay frustrated

U start it off right because you treasure the woman you found ...if you already have doubts she is a money grabber you have obviously not gone in with a level head or thought it through.

My other near experience was the same ..grandfather as the head of the household wanted no money , just put it for show to honor the family name and assure the relatives and have gifted a huge 5 rai land as a wedding gift ...yes he knew i wont own it but its a nice gesture from a head of the household

So with both experiences I have to dispute the nay Sayers...if u found the right middle class or upper they really are not keen on our $$$ more that the daughter has found a good match

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Upper class Thai families have more than one home, maids and gardeners in each.

Who the OP has described are not upper class.

[Ace of Pop]

The silly buggers who pay up,never bought their Old Mom anything over 20$ for Christmas that has been my findings.Yet they give a fortune to a Bar Girs Familyl 98%of em.

[overherebc]

The silly buggers who pay up,never bought their Old Mom anything over 20$ for Christmas that has been my findings.Yet they give a fortune to a Bar Girs Familyl 98%of em.

Frighteningly nail on the head post.

[inzman]

So you feel the need to buy a wife for an astronomical amount. I pity you and your future already. Run away fast!

[Ace of Pop]

The ultimate insult is when a fool who payed out millions a few years ago, and called you a meanie for not paying out something i was never asked for, or heard off before he turned up,asks you to lend him 250K so he can renew his Marriage visa.What would your reply be,.?. Mine started with F.

[eezergood]

I read many posted with the distaste to paying sin sod and am real puzzled

Obviously every culture has its share of money diggers and you stay clear of those no matter what nationality they are...anyone stupid enough to tangle with money grabber will add up to the sad stats worldwide of being suckered and rightly so stay bitter about their personal experiences

However if u have met someone in Asia and she is truly middle class with a level headed family ...you would be a fool to walk away just because of an age old custom or you must be too mule headed to understand the culture well

Negotiations is part and parcel of life in Asia and anyone who wants to change that is not realistic.

Middle class Thais or upper have by their own definition well monied to take care of themselves and perhaps in reality may have more that the potential foreign suitors

I know with mine, they have a comfortable house and their pension makes my own developed country plans look stupid.

They have started by reassuring me that they are not keen on my money, love their daughter and treasure her , take good care of her and that's good enough for them.

By all means pay a reasonable sin sot ; (no they refuse to be drawn into an amount) and all will be paid back the same night. I intend to fully honor their daughter come wedding day with a nice ceremony and a great amount of sin sot for show and start it right

Culture here dictates respect and if u think u are too important to bend to the rules ...it probably explains why many stay frustrated

U start it off right because you treasure the woman you found ...if you already have doubts she is a money grabber you have obviously not gone in with a level head or thought it through.

My other near experience was the same ..grandfather as the head of the household wanted no money , just put it for show to honor the family name and assure the relatives and have gifted a huge 5 rai land as a wedding gift ...yes he knew i wont own it but its a nice gesture from a head of the household

So with both experiences I have to dispute the nay Sayers...if u found the right middle class or upper they really are not keen on our $$$ more that the daughter has found a good match

So have you taken a Mia noi - you know to keep traditions alive and all that?

[MrSabai]

Ok so we had our little meeting and ill tell real quick how it went and make it more detailed later on.

So MIL kinda changed her mind, sure she like the best security for her daughter but she understod me when i was explaining that i can take care of her better if im in charge of my own money.

So she kind of said that if you love each other you shouldent wait to start life to long and suggested we marry this year and then let her daughter decide how we should do about sin sot.

So to make it good for my future wife ill be paying for wedding, some traditional gold and small amount of sin sot, no details decided, everything with in reason as it should be.

So ill follow tradition, family will be ok and the wife will feel a bit secure and be happy about it.

So all is not black or white, and people may suprise you.

More to come

[givenall]

Apparently not educate enough if they still ask for sin sod.

Sent from my ST18a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[chiangmaikelly]

My counter-offer to her mum would be to explain that in your culture, the woman and her family pays, and that you will generously accept a 'sinsot' of only 1 million baht....

Simon

Have you ever tried to do this with a 50 year old women from Issan who does not speak English?

[Pormax]

Ok so we had our little meeting and ill tell real quick how it went and make it more detailed later on.

So MIL kinda changed her mind, sure she like the best security for her daughter but she understod me when i was explaining that i can take care of her better if im in charge of my own money.

So she kind of said that if you love each other you shouldent wait to start life to long and suggested we marry this year and then let her daughter decide how we should do about sin sot.

So to make it good for my future wife ill be paying for wedding, some traditional gold and small amount of sin sot, no details decided, everything with in reason as it should be.

So ill follow tradition, family will be ok and the wife will feel a bit secure and be happy about it.

So all is not black or white, and people may suprise you.

More to come

Good on you for listening to those on the forum who gave you sensible advice and ignoring all who have nothing good to say about paying Sin Sod, and then negotiating with the family.

It seems it will be a good compromise where you and your future wife will be happy and the wife's family are happy.

Generally I think Thai families are very close knit so it was important that the talks took place. Also it showed the Thai family that their daughter means a lot to you and respect will have been gained. It just might have been a test to see if you would just walk away or negotiate when big money was asked for.

You have shown that you understand the Thai tradition, even though you might not like it, and you will allow the family to save face.

Good luck in the future.

Will be intetrested to hear the final outcome.