Montclair Wine

[GrantSmith]

836 and now 837 post about Montclair Wine?

I know we are still in the shadow of the 2008 financial crises, but still.

I'm pretty sure my post (#836) isn't applicable to Montclair

I'm just going to leave this link here...

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/lifestyle/health/red-wine-citrus-fruits-helps-reduce-erectile-dysfunction-british-study/news-story/9b9f4bebf0df0e355c918b1d7921ac40?nk=2ec59684e254dee5d328e294a55c04c8-1452785656

Thanks GS, now I know that those years of drinking copious amounts of red wine obviously paid off................

The final sentence seems a little "ambiguous" - or self evident......take your pick

Cassidy said the benefits were strongest among younger men.

I sent the link to my father... He threatened to cut me out of the inheritance

[xylophone]

Having just visited New Zealand, I was very thankful for the fact that the Montclair/fruit wine plague had not reached those shores, and I don't think this will ever take hold (or at least I hope not).

You see the competition in the supermarkets as regards wine is fierce, with the likes of Jacobs Creek, Banrock Station and McWilliams (all Aussie red "drinkers") selling for the equivalent of 180 baht a bottle, Taylor's Promised Land selling for around 250 baht a bottle and Taylor's Shiraz at around 340 baht a bottle, and the red wine sections of the supermarkets are absolutely dominated by the Aussie reds, whereas the white wine sections are dominated by the New Zealand wines.

When you can buy wines at these prices, I don't believe there is a market for the "fruit wine" products and this would further cement my belief that it is niche marketing on behalf of the producers, into countries where tax/duty/whatever makes real wine product expensive.

I am ever thankful to the Aussies for being our trans-Tasman neighbours (on the wine front anyway!) because I do prefer their red wines to those produced in NZ, especially when many of the NZ red wines are well overpriced, especially the Pinot Noirs, which continue to get good reviews from wine writers even though some of the wines seem to taste like lolly water!!

Now back to "reality" as it exists here and the need to continue searching for "bargains" as well as keeping in touch with my supplier who occasionally contacts me with stock which they are offloading relatively cheaply for one reason or another.

[xylophone]

I wasn't sure whether to post on this Montclair thread, or on another red wine thread, however as this one has a lot more than just Montclair on it and a lot more information posted by wine posters/enthusiasts, I thought I would begin here.........

Had a quick look in the wine department a Big C (Patong) yesterday and to my surprise there were some very cheaply priced French wines, both red and white varieties. They could well be in other Big C stores around the country as well, so maybe worth a look.

I'm particularly fond of Rhône wines and ones on sale yesterday were 2014 Crozes Hermitage at 570 baht, 2012 St. Joseph at 503 baht and some whites from the Alsace region, ranging in price from 330 baht to 450 baht. There were also other French wines, an everyday Bordeaux at around 400 baht and a couple of others from the south-west of France.

I snapped up a dozen bottles because I didn't think they would be around for long, even though I hadn't tasted them, although I did know that the 2012 and 2014 vintages in the northern Rhône were difficult with quite a bit of late rain, so I didn't expect blockbuster wines and I got what I thought – – an early drinking, lighter style wine with virtually no tannins showing through and one which needs to be drunk now.

Initially I was a little disappointed that they hadn't gone anywhere near the distance that these wines are capable of, however I have been drinking some fairly hefty (big fruit, big tannins and high alcohol) Australian and South African wines of late and these wines will make a nice change to those I have in "stock".

As I am not a white wine drinker, I didn't look at the whites in depth, although I would think that the Alsace wines represented good buying at that price, and this especially when some of them can age well.

[grumpyoldman]

Oh no mate, fruit wines, check the title of the thread.

Les Solstices, Mont Clair, Jump Yards et al, the best value for "wine" in Thailand.

Who needs to drink actual wine when you can drink a cheap "wine type drink" right?

Fruit wines, bottled in Vietnam get them baby !

[GrantSmith]

Good to see a bit of life in this here thread fellas... Apologies for not contributing for a while... I was lucky enough a few months ago to be invited to attend Vinitaly in Verona which is Italy's (and some claim the world's) largest wine trade show...

All the cool kids were there but what I found amazing was the lesser known regions, I guess largely due to my own fascination with alternative varietals.

Initially I'd spent the week before the trade show in Milan and had become a regular at the Park Hyatt's bar drinking an amazing Pinot Nero from Sudtirol (which is the German speaking part of Italy) it's not your average quaffer given a price tag of 18 euros a bottle ex-cellar but boy oh boy was I a fan... Diliberately sought out the winery stand at Vinitaly a week later and recounted the story to owner/winemaker who in his broken english was thrilled to hear that I enjoyed his wines so much, we quickly moved onto the 4 other wines that he produces 2 whites - a Pinot Bianco and a Chardonnay along with another Pinot Nero (with less aging than the one I had consumed earlier which was his "Riserva")

Fascinating country and hospitable! Can't wait to go back!

Speaking of Alsation wines, I've also become a bit of a fan of the new Reidel Wine Bar here in Bangkok, bloody fantastic selection of wines by the glass at rather affordable prices. I had this delightful 2008 'Grand Cru' Alsation Riesling, just fantastic!

[swerve]

Montclair is undrinkable. And all the Thailand wines are also terrible. It is a bad state of affairs.

[anotheruser]

Montclair is undrinkable. And all the Thailand wines are also terrible. It is a bad state of affairs.

Well, if you live in Phuket you are a part of the rich elite anyway, and your choice of wine makes no difference on a day to day basis.

[xylophone]

Good to see a bit of life in this here thread fellas... Apologies for not contributing for a while... I was lucky enough a few months ago to be invited to attend Vinitaly in Verona which is Italy's (and some claim the world's) largest wine trade show...

All the cool kids were there but what I found amazing was the lesser known regions, I guess largely due to my own fascination with alternative varietals.

Initially I'd spent the week before the trade show in Milan and had become a regular at the Park Hyatt's bar drinking an amazing Pinot Nero from Sudtirol (which is the German speaking part of Italy) it's not your average quaffer given a price tag of 18 euros a bottle ex-cellar but boy oh boy was I a fan... Diliberately sought out the winery stand at Vinitaly a week later and recounted the story to owner/winemaker who in his broken english was thrilled to hear that I enjoyed his wines so much, we quickly moved onto the 4 other wines that he produces 2 whites - a Pinot Bianco and a Chardonnay along with another Pinot Nero (with less aging than the one I had consumed earlier which was his "Riserva")

Fascinating country and hospitable! Can't wait to go back!

Speaking of Alsation wines, I've also become a bit of a fan of the new Reidel Wine Bar here in Bangkok, bloody fantastic selection of wines by the glass at rather affordable prices. I had this delightful 2008 'Grand Cru' Alsation Riesling, just fantastic!

Hi GS, good to see you back and to learn about your travels, you lucky devil!! By the way, did my invitation to the wine trade show get lost in the post?

I am a fan of some Italian reds, mainly the wine which is produced via the ripasso or appassimento methods and some of the more extracted Nebiolo wines, although I have to say that I did try a wine from Salice Salento many years ago and it was the Negroamaro grape but although this grape is usually used for everyday swiggers and blending, this particular wine was treated like a "reserva" and was very much like the ones I described above.

Now a question for you, as I believe the Pinot Nero is the equivalent to the Pinot Noir, or a clone thereof, what are these wines like? I ask that because I have tasted Pinot Noirs from other countries, Australia and New Zealand to name a couple, and they have never gotten anywhere near even some of the average wines produced in Burgundy. So does this particular grape grown in this particular region have a different expression/lighter or more extracted/other qualities and characteristics, or is it what is to be expected of the everyday Pinot Noir?

[GrantSmith]

Hi GS, good to see you back and to learn about your travels, you lucky devil!! By the way, did my invitation to the wine trade show get lost in the post?

I am a fan of some Italian reds, mainly the wine which is produced via the ripasso or appassimento methods and some of the more extracted Nebiolo wines, although I have to say that I did try a wine from Salice Salento many years ago and it was the Negroamaro grape but although this grape is usually used for everyday swiggers and blending, this particular wine was treated like a "reserva" and was very much like the ones I described above.

Now a question for you, as I believe the Pinot Nero is the equivalent to the Pinot Noir, or a clone thereof, what are these wines like? I ask that because I have tasted Pinot Noirs from other countries, Australia and New Zealand to name a couple, and they have never gotten anywhere near even some of the average wines produced in Burgundy. So does this particular grape grown in this particular region have a different expression/lighter or more extracted/other qualities and characteristics, or is it what is to be expected of the everyday Pinot Noir?

Hey Xylo,

I'll be honest, I was never really a fan of Italian wine, I felt it was always missing something but I've put that down to the my own personal taste preference versus what's been available in the market. Since visiting Italy I've found and fell in love with several wines, some native some not.

As for the Pinot Nero, that's just Italian for Pinot Noir as is Blauburgunder for the Germans (if you notice on the label it's both German and Italian, given the location). It's not a Burgundy style Pinot, but it has a certain perfumed elegance to it which makes it a very versatile wine - like a blend of Beaujolais and Burgundy without the Gamay Noir. I'd love to see a vertical tasting of this to confirm it though.

The whites of the alpine regions of Italy are also such a surprise, Pinot Bianco especially, that was just wow! I was also surprised by the quality of the Chardonnay's as well.

Here's another set of wines which I was enamored with, from the Friuli region, Pinot Bianco, Chardonnay and Merlot... Both the Chardonnay and Merlot were not like their French counterparts and again seemed to have more drink-ability now though with aging (in regards to the Chardonnay as I also tasted a 2004 vintage) develops that French elegance and roundness.

Overall, the Alto Adige region is fascinating and I'll be looking to explore that region more.

[grumpyoldman]

Sure to beat the hell out of crappy fruit wines.................enjoy.

[xylophone]

Quote GS: "like a blend of Beaujolais and Burgundy without the Gamay Noir".

Had a little chuckle over this (not at your expense I may add) because a blend of Beaujolais and Burgundy without the Gamay would be........a Burgundy. However I know what you were trying to convey and I will keep an eye out for the wines you have posted, although I doubt if they will be that readily available here.

On the subject of the blend of Beaujolais and Burgundy, well there is such a wine produced in the Burgundy region and it is made from a blend of the Pinot Noir and Gamay grapes and it is called "Bourgogne passe-tout-grains" although it is a primarily an everyday swigger, but the occasional one will age for a time and I have tasted one of these where the Pinot Noir characteristic has shown through in the main, with just a little bit of the slightly aromatic fruit from the Gamay also present.

On a similar note, I used to like the Beaujolais Grand Cru wines especially with a few years on them, and somehow George Duboeuf managed to get a particularly floral note on some of his wines and I think this was due to the use of part maceration carbonique in the process of fermentation although most Beaujolais wines use this process anyway..

Back on track to the Montclair and fruit wine debate, I notice that there are many more casks of wines of that ilk now available and have also noticed more bottles from European areas where the back label "implies" the addition of fruit juice..........I will get the exact wording next time I see them.

[GrantSmith]

Quote GS: "like a blend of Beaujolais and Burgundy without the Gamay Noir".

Had a little chuckle over this (not at your expense I may add) because a blend of Beaujolais and Burgundy without the Gamay would be........a Burgundy. However I know what you were trying to convey and I will keep an eye out for the wines you have posted, although I doubt if they will be that readily available here.

On the subject of the blend of Beaujolais and Burgundy, well there is such a wine produced in the Burgundy region and it is made from a blend of the Pinot Noir and Gamay grapes and it is called "Bourgogne passe-tout-grains" although it is a primarily an everyday swigger, but the occasional one will age for a time and I have tasted one of these where the Pinot Noir characteristic has shown through in the main, with just a little bit of the slightly aromatic fruit from the Gamay also present.

On a similar note, I used to like the Beaujolais Grand Cru wines especially with a few years on them, and somehow George Duboeuf managed to get a particularly floral note on some of his wines and I think this was due to the use of part maceration carbonique in the process of fermentation although most Beaujolais wines use this process anyway..

Back on track to the Montclair and fruit wine debate, I notice that there are many more casks of wines of that ilk now available and have also noticed more bottles from European areas where the back label "implies" the addition of fruit juice..........I will get the exact wording next time I see them.

Hahah glad you were picking up what I was putting down

As for the wines being available in Thailand, none are to be found as yet but patience being the virtue that it is, maybe in 12 months time...

[xylophone]

The wording on the back labels of the wines I was mentioning previously, states that this wine is "aromatised". Now usually this means that the wine is "fortified" with some other addition and it used to be that these wines had to have a minimum amount content of about 14.5%, however the ones I spotted the other day had nothing like that.

I can only assume that they are using the word "aromatised" in a more general sense meaning the addition of fruit juice and judging by the price I think I would be spot on with this assumption (or at least very close).

Cheers for now.

[bearpolar]

You guys know that you can buy duty free wine for really really cheap at the andaman club?

Worth it to stock up on booze every now and then.

[xylophone]

You guys know that you can buy duty free wine for really really cheap at the andaman club?

Worth it to stock up on booze every now and then.

Thanks for the tip bp..........is that the place off the coast at Ranong?

And any info anywhere on the wines and prices?

Thank you.

[bearpolar]

You guys know that you can buy duty free wine for really really cheap at the andaman club?

Worth it to stock up on booze every now and then.

Thanks for the tip bp..........is that the place off the coast at Ranong?

And any info anywhere on the wines and prices?

Thank you.

yeah in ranong unfortunately no list but theres a decent selection.

Hard booze is cheaper than back home.

[xylophone]

On 7/2/2016 at 10:47 AM, GrantSmith said:

Hey Xylo,

I'll be honest, I was never really a fan of Italian wine, I felt it was always missing something but I've put that down to the my own personal taste preference versus what's been available in the market. Since visiting Italy I've found and fell in love with several wines, some native some not.

As for the Pinot Nero, that's just Italian for Pinot Noir as is Blauburgunder for the Germans (if you notice on the label it's both German and Italian, given the location). It's not a Burgundy style Pinot, but it has a certain perfumed elegance to it which makes it a very versatile wine - like a blend of Beaujolais and Burgundy without the Gamay Noir. I'd love to see a vertical tasting of this to confirm it though.

The whites of the alpine regions of Italy are also such a surprise, Pinot Bianco especially, that was just wow! I was also surprised by the quality of the Chardonnay's as well.

Here's another set of wines which I was enamored with, from the Friuli region, Pinot Bianco, Chardonnay and Merlot... Both the Chardonnay and Merlot were not like their French counterparts and again seemed to have more drink-ability now though with aging (in regards to the Chardonnay as I also tasted a 2004 vintage) develops that French elegance and roundness.

Overall, the Alto Adige region is fascinating and I'll be looking to explore that region more.

 

Not back to Montclair, but Aussie wines............had the good fortune to pick up a couple of cases of "Rossco's Shiraz 2006" from Heritage wines (South Australia) which was retailing here for 1900b a bottle, but I paid much less.

 

It is a full on fruit driven wine which given a little air opens up to many layers to tickle the tastebuds......esp when you can almost "taste" blackberries, blackcurrants etc.

 

It is one of the best I have tasted in many, many years and it has aged well and reached its peak in superb condition.......will buy some more but storage is a problem!. 

 

Have you tried it GrantSmith? 

[GrantSmith]

 

Not back to Montclair, but Aussie wines............had the good fortune to pick up a couple of cases of "Rossco's Shiraz 2006" from Heritage wines (South Australia) which was retailing here for 1900b a bottle, but I paid much less.

 

It is a full on fruit driven wine which given a little air opens up to many layers to tickle the tastebuds......esp when you can almost "taste" blackberries, blackcurrants etc.

 

It is one of the best I have tasted in many, many years and it has aged well and reached its peak in superb condition.......will buy some more but storage is a problem!. 

 

Have you tried it GrantSmith? 

Retailing at 1900 a bottle? Not bad considering that's what it's wholesaling for and so getting it less than is always a bargain!

I've not tried it myself, though they claim someone once said that it was 'the brother of Grange'

Storage is only a problem if your purchases outweigh your consumption

[xylophone]

True but don't want to drink a bottle every night.........need a change to let the taste buds "recover/adjust"!!!

 

Purchased 36 bottle in all now and I know they won't go off....so thinking about it I could go another few cases as there is plenty left.

 

As you can see I have the willpower of a tame rabbit where wines are concerned.

[ExpatOilWorker]

The collection is complete, time to taste some of the good stuff.

[xylophone]

It looks like the "Battle of the casks" is on now as regards pricing because although they were initially introduced to bring cheap wine to the masses, more recently they have been used to bring even cheaper wines to Thailand, by way of added fruit juice.

 

Although Montclair is selling at Big C for 969 baht, other imported cask fruit added wines of Australian origin are selling for 829 baht so that will provide some competition to what was a market initially cornered by Montclair.

 

Also whilst I was in Big C I noticed a South African wine called "Red Rhino" which was selling for 399 baht a bottle and from what I could see on the label, it did not have fruit juice added and I was wondering if anyone had tried it? There were bottles of Shiraz and Cabernet Sauvignon, 2011 vintage, and if the wine is okay, they could represent good buying for an everyday drinker.

[GiantFan]

Viu Manent from Chile.  Reserve Sav blanc 2015.  B435.

Back in the US, this is a $7 (B250). bottle of wine granted.  But here, hard to find any SB under B600.  And it's not fruit wine!

I do like my NZ SB's, but a bit pricey.  Viva Chile!

 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, GiantFan said:

Viu Manent from Chile.  Reserve Sav blanc 2015.  B435.

Back in the US, this is a $7 (B250). bottle of wine granted.  But here, hard to find any SB under B600.  And it's not fruit wine!

I do like my NZ SB's, but a bit pricey.  Viva Chile!

 

 

Check out this NZ SB at Big C...........Yealands Estate Lookout Point SB 2014, at under 500 b a bottle. Sorry can't remember the exact price.

 

Also noticed specials on "The Pump" range at Villa Market (Phuket anyway) at 399 b a bottle.

[Denim]

Back to the Montclair topic. Just bought an 8 liter box from Macro for 1999 baht. That works out at about 114 baht a bottle. You might not rate it bit you can't say its a rip off.

Last year wife and I were in the UK for a month and got through about 40 bottles of various reds ranging from

4-8 pounds and frankly , none of them were outstandingly better. Guess you need to be in the know or throw a lot more money at it.

Stop winging and start drinking ( in moderation )

[LivinginKata]

Happy to see this topic renewed ....

[xylophone]

15 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

Happy to see this topic renewed ....

And quite timely too, what with the increasing cost of wine here and the increasing numbers of Montclair type wines on the market.

 

But for me it has another significance in as much as just the other evening I tried a glass of fruit wine (not the Siam winery producer which makes Montclair, but an Australian brand) and I was trying to see if it was as I remembered it when  I tried some a couple of years ago, then just a couple of nights later I was at dinner with friends and they produced a bottle of the Siam winery MarYsol Merlot so I thought I'd give that a try as well.

 

They both had the same thing in common which was, for me anyway, a lack of depth and taste, in fact I would describe them as both flat/dumb and uninspiring almost as if they were pasteurised, which had taken out the ability for the wine to develop. They were both alcoholic red drinks and that was it with no discernible flavours, nose or anything to identify the type of grape (not the fruit juice).

 

I wondered about the pasteurisation aspect because it would be something that would fit into this type of wine very well, because it won't spoil, nor will it age that well (by  that I mean age with certain complexities) but then I remembered that after drinking a few glasses of this in the past I used to get the fuzzy headache feeling in the morning which I had put down to overuse of sulphur dioxide.

 

The use of heat pasteurisation means that sulphites are not needed, so that theory sort of fell by the wayside, however I then wondered if the fruit juice was pasteurised and this made a lot more sense. To keep the product stable and stop it going off or harbouring any bacteria or the like, fruit juice is often pasteurised and if the wine had sulphites added to keep it stable and the fruit juice  was pasteurised, then that would be an answer.............. but then again I could be way off!!

 

Luckily enough I have been able to source some good wines via alternative supplies, none of which are fruit wines, so I suppose I have been spoilt with regards to taste and the development of some of the better wines.

 

Having said that who knows what the cost of even these will be when the new "tax laws" with regards to alcohol come into play in September?

[Denim]

Well  xylophone  ..........  you know something about fruit wine.  My own pallet has been duffed up over  the years by various cheap Thai whiskies.

 

No need to guess which of the two I am in this clip :

 

 

[xylophone]

25 minutes ago, Denim said:

Well  xylophone  ..........  you know something about fruit wine.  My own pallet has been duffed up over  the years by various cheap Thai whiskies.

 

No need to guess which of the two I am in this clip :

 

 

Liked that movie, and if you like movies about wine look up "Bottle Shock".

 

We all have different tastes/likes Denim and I don't judge folks on their likes and dislikes........just that I like the type of wine I have been drinking and collecting for around 45 years.

 

That's just me and not only that I like to understand the history, grapes, areas and techniques used, hence me trying to puzzle out the fruit juice/pasteurisation question!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Denim]

Thanks for the tip. Will look that movie up.  

 

I prefer wine to all other alcohol. Sadly , in the past , to get where I wanted to be

( south of the tablecloth ) it was often cost prohibitive compared to other grog available. 

 

Now I only drink a couple of glasses a day for medicinal reasons. That plus a small dose of aspirin every other night to keep the ticker and wedding tackle tickety boo. 

 

 

[eezergood]

On 19/07/2017 at 9:14 PM, LivinginKata said:

Happy to see this topic renewed ....

as am I after my 2 year leave of absence