Problem With House Owners Not Paying Maintenance.

[giddyup]

I bought a house in a small village of 39 house three years ago. My maintenance (same as everybody's) was paid up front for the first two years, subsequently every year after. The maintenance management has been handled by the developers as there were still a few houses unsold, however, now they have all been sold. The developers have informed all owners that we are to take over our own maintenance as from 31st December this year, but we have also been told that there are 7 houses that are refusing to pay their maintenance for whatever reasons. How are we to enforce everyone paying their maintenance? Otherwise it's bound to have a domino effect and the village will not be able to afford Security, lighting, pool maintenance etc.

[PattayaPhom]

Why are they refusing to pay? Its typical to hand over maintenance after three years. Its a shame but this is all too common in Thailand.....

[USNret]

In the States, the owner's association (HOA) can put a lien on the house, or actually foreclose (take the house & sell it for arrears). This is written in the contract up front. If there's no such contract clause where you live, it will be a prolonged & expensive legal proceeding. It's probably worth it to undertake the law suit since, as you said, left unpunished & unenforced, then one-by-one the other owners will also refuse to pay and then, as they say, "there goes the neighborhood."

[giddyup]

Why are they refusing to pay? Its typical to hand over maintenance after three years. Its a shame but this is all too common in Thailand.....

I don't know why, probably just expect a free ride, but there's 7 who haven't paid, possibly 7 different reasons.

[giddyup]

In the States, the owner's association (HOA) can put a lien on the house, or actually foreclose (take the house & sell it for arrears). This is written in the contract up front. If there's no such contract clause where you live, it will be a prolonged & expensive legal proceeding. It's probably worth it to undertake the law suit since, as you said, left unpunished & unenforced, then one-by-one the other owners will also refuse to pay and then, as they say, "there goes the neighborhood."

It's the "there goes the neighborhood" part that bothers me. Once there is no security, no street sweeping etc it won't take long for things to go downhill.

[manarak]

ok, 7 from 39... 32 houses should be enough to avoid running into security and maintenance issues.

And the village maintenance fund should consult a lawyer.

[giddyup]

ok, 7 from 39... 32 houses should be enough to avoid running into security and maintenance issues.

And the village maintenance fund should consult a lawyer.

As I said, it becomes a domino effect, others will start to ask why they should be paying and carrying the free-loaders.

[worgeordie]

Its the same in our MooBahn,several will not pay,and there is not a lot you

can do about it,if you try and name and shame, they could sue you, more

will follow ,they will use the excuse of not paying while the 7 are not,and

things will slowly go downhill .

The bigger developers like Land and House,my friend bought in one of

there estates and had to pay maintenance fees 3 years in advance.

regards Worgeordie

[manarak]

ok, 7 from 39... 32 houses should be enough to avoid running into security and maintenance issues.

And the village maintenance fund should consult a lawyer.

As I said, it becomes a domino effect, others will start to ask why they should be paying and carrying the free-loaders.

By which contract are these houseowners bound to the maintenance fund?

Do they have a right of passage on the street inscribed on the Chanote (at the back)?

If not, I propose the maintenance fund builds a wall across their street access.

[Delight]

Condos , as everybody knows, are supported by the Condo Act

Thailand simply does not similar legislation to cover walled housing units.

The number 1 question is who owns the ‘common’ land.
Suspect that this legally belongs to the developer

If I were you I would speak to a lawyer to see if the setting up of an association will provide legal support.
If you could form an association then that entity could own the land.
You will have to do deal with the developer. (Suspect that he recovered the cost of all the land when he sold the houses)
So if gentle persuasion fails then maybe you can restrict access to their houses on the grounds of trespass. A card operated barrier system maybe required . Those

who pay get a card

[giddyup]

ok, 7 from 39... 32 houses should be enough to avoid running into security and maintenance issues.

And the village maintenance fund should consult a lawyer.

As I said, it becomes a domino effect, others will start to ask why they should be paying and carrying the free-loaders.

By which contract are these houseowners bound to the maintenance fund?

Do they have a right of passage on the street inscribed on the Chanote (at the back)?

If not, I propose the maintenance fund builds a wall across their street access.

Good suggestion, but not quite that simple. By restricting street access to those that aren't paying, you would also be restricting those that are. My idea would be to deny vehicle access to the village itself. Just inform security of the licence plate numbers of those that aren't paying.

[dorayme]

Why not just cut the utilities.

[DeeMak9]

In our moo baan the owners just took over the maintanace of the village. Theres a new and very good security company at work now. One thing i thought was a pretty good idea is to change stickers. You wont get a new one unless you pay the fees. Its a hassle to come inside without a sticker on your car or motorbike. Also, everyone who paid maintance fees got new trashbins. Only those will get emptied. The ones that are different are left alone. Eventually the trash will pile up if you havent got the one that is giving to you by the juristic person.

I dont think you can make a 100% sure everyone pays theyre bit but with things like the above I can understand some people change their mind and decide to pay after a while.

Edited May 14, 2013 by DeeMak9

[BrianCR]

More rubbish, just get a lawyer and sue the gits!

[manarak]

ok, 7 from 39... 32 houses should be enough to avoid running into security and maintenance issues.

And the village maintenance fund should consult a lawyer.

As I said, it becomes a domino effect, others will start to ask why they should be paying and carrying the free-loaders.

By which contract are these houseowners bound to the maintenance fund?

Do they have a right of passage on the street inscribed on the Chanote (at the back)?

If not, I propose the maintenance fund builds a wall across their street access.

Good suggestion, but not quite that simple. By restricting street access to those that aren't paying, you would also be restricting those that are. My idea would be to deny vehicle access to the village itself. Just inform security of the licence plate numbers of those that aren't paying.

I meant a wall between the village street and their plot.

[johnnyk]

A juristic entity is needed with legal status. Once it is registered it has the power to put liens on houses for non-payment. This may not do anything in the immediate term but when Deadbeat Doug goes to sell he will be blocked unless he pays up, with interest. Get a lawyer, one with teeth. The juristic entity has no power to cut electricity, as long as the deadbeats pay their bill they will have juice. Cutting water may be illegal, not sure, but I think water can be regarded as a right maybe someone can clarify.

Not collecting rubbish won't work. It will pile up and attract animals and vermin and stink to high heaven. Cutting vehicle access may work but the parasite crowd might just leave their cars outside and walk in.

[giddyup]

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I think consulting a lawyer may be the first step.

[how241]

ok, 7 from 39... 32 houses should be enough to avoid running into security and maintenance issues.

And the village maintenance fund should consult a lawyer.

+1

[thhMan]

Those that pay get a sticker or badge or some identifying object.

This object provides identification for security to open gates. Those that dont, must get out of the car and manually open gates, whether raining or not.

This object also permits the usage of the pool by the holder and their guests. No object, no entry or a fee is imposed to use the pool. (Its embarrassing for the parents when the kid come home crying because he cant play in the pool)

This object on a home informs utility people that they can supply services to this particular property.

If rubbish begins piling up, all owners sign a petition and then hand that over to the authorities to deal with.

At some point, it would be hoped that some of the scumbags will want to save face and begin to comply with the rules.

[prk888]

List all the 39 houses in the village (in number sequence hopefully) on a large whiteboard at the security entrance and just tick/colour all the house numbers that have paid. Those houses (no names) who have not paid will stand out (in some way eg. no tick, colour, a blank space etc.)

Our Committee did just that and 96% of 100+ houses paid within a month.

[marioc]

ok, 7 from 39... 32 houses should be enough to avoid running into security and maintenance issues.

And the village maintenance fund should consult a lawyer.

+1

+2

[dressedingreen]

We have a similar but smaller problem in our village. 1 out of 16 won't pay. The rest of the village have worked around him. Basically, he gets free street lighting and doesn't contribute to the upkeep of the pool. But it's no big deal. Worth about 2,000 baht per year (the price of a good night out, with perks). Sometimes you have to just go around obstacles that would impede what the vast majority want.

Our village was never designated a Mooban when planning permission was given to build. This means we cannot form a Mooban committee. But it is still possible to form a committee as a juristic entity. The committee can decide by what rules the village will function. As another poster said earlier in this thread, with a Mooban committee a non-payer can have a charge placed against his property which becomes payable before he can sell it.

Careful with lawyers! Many will promise more than they can deliver. We spoke to our local Tessaban about the problem and were told to form a juristic entity costs very little. Just need to get a majority to agree, draw up a document and get it checked and approved by a lawyer.

I guess there will always be those who try to live on the expenses of others. IMO life is too short to waste on them. Good luck with the spongers!

DIG

[yankee99]

ok, 7 from 39... 32 houses should be enough to avoid running into security and maintenance issues.And the village maintenance fund should consult a lawyer.

As I said, it becomes a domino effect, others will start to ask why they should be paying and carrying the free-loaders.

By which contract are these houseowners bound to the maintenance fund?Do they have a right of passage on the street inscribed on the Chanote (at the back)?If not, I propose the maintenance fund builds a wall across their street access.

Good suggestion, but not quite that simple. By restricting street access to those that aren't paying, you would also be restricting those that are. My idea would be to deny vehicle access to the village itself. Just inform security of the licence plate numbers of those that aren't paying.

You can not deny access to their house as thailand has right of way laws to your property. The best you can do is sue.

[NoshowJones]

List all the 39 houses in the village (in number sequence hopefully) on a large whiteboard at the security entrance and just tick/colour all the house numbers that have paid. Those houses (no names) who have not paid will stand out (in some way eg. no tick, colour, a blank space etc.)

Our Committee did just that and 96% of 100+ houses paid within a month.

Maybe I've missed something, but are we talking about houses or condos here. I bought a house seven years ago, and as far as I know, my wife does not pay maintenance bills. if she does, then she has not told me.

[topt]

List all the 39 houses in the village (in number sequence hopefully) on a large whiteboard at the security entrance and just tick/colour all the house numbers that have paid. Those houses (no names) who have not paid will stand out (in some way eg. no tick, colour, a blank space etc.)

Our Committee did just that and 96% of 100+ houses paid within a month.

I think you may have been lucky. Our Moobahn tried something similar 2 years ago without much if any success. We now have a number of owners with arrears of 3 years on their payments. The biggest issue I think is unless their is a signed agreement for every owner and for new owners how do you actually force people to pay. On what basis do you sue?

There was a thread on this a couple of years ago with someone from a Moobahn in/near Bangkok wanting to put in place agreements and take over the juristic from the developer. A lot of good information was put forward but unfortunately I don't think the outcome was reported.

The other majotr problem (at least in our Moobahn) is the apathy of most of the owners to get involved and push for or even just support changes.

[topt]

List all the 39 houses in the village (in number sequence hopefully) on a large whiteboard at the security entrance and just tick/colour all the house numbers that have paid. Those houses (no names) who have not paid will stand out (in some way eg. no tick, colour, a blank space etc.)

Our Committee did just that and 96% of 100+ houses paid within a month.

Maybe I've missed something, but are we talking about houses or condos here. I bought a house seven years ago, and as far as I know, my wife does not pay maintenance bills. if she does, then she has not told me.

If your house is in a gated village and the common areas are maintained, garbage collected etc then somebody is paying for that. If you have a stand alone house then of course there is no community charge.

[bkk_mike]

List all the 39 houses in the village (in number sequence hopefully) on a large whiteboard at the security entrance and just tick/colour all the house numbers that have paid. Those houses (no names) who have not paid will stand out (in some way eg. no tick, colour, a blank space etc.)

Our Committee did just that and 96% of 100+ houses paid within a month.

The mooban I live did this a couple of years ago, and it improved things a lot, but still not everyone pays.

I believe that if you get the lawyers involved, you can get it set up so that the money has to be paid when they want to sell, or you can block the sale, but that can obviously be a long way in the future.

[HUAHIN62]

To start off go back to your sales agreement and see what the sellers said about maintenance/common areas. Find out if the developers did register the development according to the law. Common areas can be handled in different ways, one is for the developer to continue to run these areas at a charge or that the common areas are transferred to a legal entity (owners) at a certain stage. If your sales agreement states that the developer will continue to manage the common areas after the development is completed they are in breach. If the sales agreement states that the control of the common areas are transferred to an legal entity on completion of the development and they neglected to register the development according to law they are also liable. On the next part I am uncertain but if the sales agreement states that the control is transferred to the owners at a certain point in time and all the owners have signed the same agreements they are bound by this agreement to contribute to the maintenance of common areas.

[tropic1000]

Clearly, common area fees are needed for upkeep in any development with shared elements e.g. security, roadways, elevators etc. Non payment of common area fees can happen in any country, but the enforcement boils down to knowing what the rules are, what the penalties are, and who is responsible to decide, notify and impose the penalties.

The Thai Condo Act certainly address non-payment and can assess interest penalties of over 12% in certain cases; but your case is not a condo. It is my understanding that the Thai Village Development law is very different and many villages are only subject to this law if they have sought the appropriate registration to allow juristic governance. This link is an unofficial Thai version of 2000: http://www.addresstalk.com/forums/forums/government--2/topics/thailand-village-development-act-thai-language

Sorry that i have only sourced a Thai version for now, but I will try to find and post an English version. As others have said, you really need legal help to know your options, costs and risks of taking action, or worse, not taking action. A few selfish ones can sour things for many. Once the pool stops getting cleaned or the security gates go unmanned, property prices will likely be impinged along with quality of life.

Just remember, for those of you who are thinking to buy into projects of multiple units or homes, ask to see the contract and village regulations first; be clear on what the rules are, who manages it, what's the track record of the developer, and what happens when the money runs out. You can't depend on the seller, an agent, or the developers sales staff to really know the worst case outcomes. The www.addresstalk.com web platform is a good way to band the owners together, and you can start by posting your village on the site, uploading the regulations, and then inviting other owners.

In any case, please keep us posted on your progress.

Edited May 15, 2013 by tropic1000

[Thakkar]

I haven't had time to read the entire thread, just the OP and first five responses.

Those who haven't paid may have good reasons, like a dispute with the developer. It's best to write a polite letter to find out first before considering any other action.

The owners should form a committee under existing laws that allow for such. Elect a chairman, secretary and treasurer.

There are many non-confrontational ways to get the payments. Start with special designed car stickers. Those who've paid get one for each car in the household. Cars without the stickers will stick out and embarrassment may convince some to pay up.

If the problem persist, put up a large notice board at the entrance and throughout the village announcing that most have paid and request the remaining households to pay for the good of the whole village.

Next step: print large, eye-catching stickers and hand out to all households that have paid to display at their front gate. Embarrassment should get the outliers to pay up. Print newly designed car and house stickers to hand out every year for households that pay.

A final measure, though expensive and not worth it if just one or two outliers remain, is to install a touch card gate system. Again, to avoid confrontations, here's the kicker. Those without cards (that is, those who haven't paid their management fees) will still be able to get in; they'll have to get out of the car and press a button!

T

Edited May 15, 2013 by Thakkar