Jump to content

Woolwich Attack: ' Soldier Beheaded' By Ranting Fanatics On Busy London Street


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted

canuckamuck;

Islam is a peace loving religion, as much as Christianity.

I am not a statesman, I cannot offer a solution to extremism and terrorism, no matter what it's cause or who are it's perpetrators.

This thread shows that ignorance and prejudice are rampant on both sides; despite the efforts of people of peace. While that ignorance and prejudice prevails, I see no solution.

geriatrickid;

You've missed my point. But if you think the problems in Ireland are solved, let alone solved after a mere 30 years, you have no idea about Irish history!

But that is not the topic of this thread; if you wish to discuss Irish history further with me I will be happy to do so via PM.

Yes you have no solutions and nothing valuable to contribute. You seem to be of the opinion that we should just let things play out. Sadly, you will likely get your wish.

So what would you do?

I at least admit there is a crisis which you have failed to do.

I would allow profiling and publication of the activities of known hate sponsors and have them treated the same as sexual predators. Banning them access to internet, international travel, and particularly mosques.

  • Like 1
Posted

I had the the great experience of seeing Enoch Powell when he was getting all the stick for his mass immigration condemnation speeches. For those of you who know London, he was walking down Victoria Street beside the Army and Navy store. Walking away from the House of Commons towards Belgravia where where he lived.

He looked at me a little suspiciously,but when I smiled at him to give him my support,he smiled back and nodded his head to me.He was probably going home to read the millions of letters of support from the British people. It is an experience I will never forget.

Enoch Powell. A great man.

The man in the street admired and applauded him, the press, his peers and the establishment reviiled him. Nothing much has changed, so much for democracy.

Posted

So, Neil1952, if Muslims don't condemn these atrocities that means they approve of them but if they do then they are lying!

How can anyone argue against prejudiced ignorance like that and so many other posts here.

You lot can sit at your computers and congratulate each other on how right you are, whilst looking at everyone with a brown skin with suspicion.

As I said before:

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

You can lead a fool to knowledge, but you can't make him think!

Why do you insist on calling this as racism. We have a problem with a religion followed by many different races with varying skin tones, and it is the attitudes taught by this religion that we object to.

Islam rejects criticism of it because it cannot stand up to close scrutiny. It supposedly guides its followers through all aspects of life, but somehow manages to completely ignore child sexual abuse and slavery - because they weren't regarded as crimes at the time.

  • Like 1
Posted

U.G.

I, too, have something, a lot actually, against radical Muslim terrorists. But unlike you and many others here, I do not think that all Muslims support them.

TexasRanger,

That some Muslims committed atrocious acts in Kuwait does not mean all Muslims are like that. It's not just Muslims, either; ever heard of a place called My Lai?

chooka;

Yes, the murderers were invoking the name of God whilst they committed this act; that does not mean that they acted in the name of Islam or God; merely that in their perverted, sick minds they thought that they did.

sms747,

Christ may have been a man of peace, but how many people have been tortured in his name, murdered in his name, killed in wars fought in his name? Millions.

And read the Old Testament; full of wars of conquest fought by the Israelites

As for the rest, I have gone over this ground so many times, I am not going to repeat myself, no matter how many times you lot repeat your ignorance and prejudices.

I am leaving this fascist meeting for good.

  • Like 2
Posted

As someone who works in a central london office & is in london today it might interest you to know that there is no anti islam feeling here, just a justified disgusted at what the two individuals in question did.

The outpouring of anti muslim feeling of a lot of these posts is not a representation of the londoners I know & just plays into the hands of the terrorists.

Don't do there work for them they can only win by provoking us to over-react.

I for one will be ordering a help for heroes t-shirt this weekend and will wear it with pride to show some solidarity.

You obviously have not been in my local SE London pub!

Posted

<snip>

OzMick

You say "Why should a child be forced into a lifetime of following the orders of an ancient myth?"

Do you apply this equally to Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism etc.?

Remind me again. What religion executes it's followers for renouncing the religion. I suppose a sight i've regularly seen of Muttawas herding the faithful to the mosque while waving a cane and sometimes hitting them is leading a horse to water.

Posted

I suggest that any immigrant that is allowed entry to Britain should serve 2 years National service in the army!! If they refuse don't let them in!!

All immigrants? Including your wife/husband/partner (whichever) from Thailand?

yes

Posted

U.G.

I, too, have something, a lot actually, against radical Muslim terrorists. But unlike you and many others here, I do not think that all Muslims support them.

 

TexasRanger,

That some Muslims committed atrocious acts in Kuwait does not mean all Muslims are like that. It's not just Muslims, either; ever heard of a place called My Lai?

 

chooka;

Yes, the murderers were invoking the name of God whilst they committed this act; that does not mean that they acted in the name of Islam or God; merely that in their perverted, sick minds they thought that they did.

 

sms747,

Christ may have been a man of peace, but how many people have been tortured in his name, murdered in his name, killed in wars fought in his name? Millions.

 

And read the Old Testament; full of wars of conquest fought by the Israelites

 

As for the rest, I have gone over this ground so many times, I am not going to repeat myself, no matter how many times you lot repeat your ignorance and prejudices.

 

I am leaving this fascist meeting for good.

No comment on My Lai as I wasn't there, were you?
Posted

So Transam, you believe that these murderers should have their views broadcast to the world while they still have the wet blood of their victim on their hands!

Yes, I believe in free speech; but as I said earlier, within the law.

I challenge you to find one comment of mine which excuses this atrocity; or any other committed by anyone.

When you have failed to do that, I will accept your apology.

I accept defeat! I have not found one post by you that excuses this atrocity.......................................................

Likewise I haven't found one of your posts that condemns this act either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted

U.G.

I, too, have something, a lot actually, against radical Muslim terrorists. But unlike you and many others here, I do not think that all Muslims support them.

Please point out a post where I have suggested anything close to this. This kind of dishonest rhetoric is why many posters distrust your motives.

Posted

transam, what has the skin colour of two of your friends got to do with anything. Now if you said that they were Muslims, I would be surprised!

TexasRanger, no I was not at My Lai; but it happened and no one denies that it did.

Whistleblower, if you haven't found a post where I condemn this act, you haven't been looking. I have done so many times.

U.G.

If you haven't, then I withdraw 'you' from the remark with apologies.

And that really is my last word here.

Posted

Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...

"One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie.

Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.

Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Quote

Qur'an (66:2) - "Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths"

Quote

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means deceit. If Allah is deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

The qu'ran provides the framework for dissimulation...Al Taqiya!

As I said, TALK IS CHEAP....when those spokepersons you refer to resort to POSITIVE ACTION....then I'll grant them respect and credence...not until.

You of course may feel free to do as you please, I do not claim that you are an apologist, simply ill-informed.

whilst looking at everyone with a brown skin with suspicion.

My wife has brown skin...( mut mak mak loi ) I don't regard her with any suspicion, you're conflating the issue !

Posted

U.G.

I, too, have something, a lot actually, against radical Muslim terrorists. But unlike you and many others here, I do not think that all Muslims support them.

TexasRanger,

That some Muslims committed atrocious acts in Kuwait does not mean all Muslims are like that. It's not just Muslims, either; ever heard of a place called My Lai?

chooka;

Yes, the murderers were invoking the name of God whilst they committed this act; that does not mean that they acted in the name of Islam or God; merely that in their perverted, sick minds they thought that they did.

sms747,

Christ may have been a man of peace, but how many people have been tortured in his name, murdered in his name, killed in wars fought in his name? Millions.

And read the Old Testament; full of wars of conquest fought by the Israelites

As for the rest, I have gone over this ground so many times, I am not going to repeat myself, no matter how many times you lot repeat your ignorance and prejudices.

I am leaving this fascist meeting for good.

Why is the fact that christianity and judaism are equally violent, hate-mongering and accept both child sex abuse and slavery relevant to a criticism of islam? Are we diverging into comparative religion now?

  • Like 1
Posted

Transam: There have been many religious leaders in the Islamic world condemning terror attacks, live in peace with your neighbours etc. Most of them do not get any attention in the mainstream media. An article that reviews this and talks to the some of the fatwas speaking out against Islamic terrorism at:

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2010/03/02/tahir-ul-qadri-and-the-difficulty-of-reporting-on-fatwas/

Alternatively Google search "fatwa condemning terrorism"

There are domestic radicalised Islamic extremists & I agree it is likely there will be other attacks as happened in Woolwich. The challenge is how UK and other societies deal with the matter without destroying the principles upon which they are based. Not trying to speak on 7by7’s behalf, but unless I have misunderstood, this is the crux on the matter he is addressing.

Unfortunately, these folks do not condemn the religious leaders that preach hatred. These religious leaders are greeted as brother and a kiss on the cheek.

Raw sewage causes disease. It is nice to condemn the open sewers that spread the sewage, but if no specific action is taken to stop the dumping of the raw sewage, the problem continues. That's the problem. The muslim community leadership refuses to take any action against these preachers. It is even more disgusting that the mosques where these people preach benefit from charitable status.

As far as I understand their is legally nothing that other Islamic leaders in Western societies can take against those who preach extremist ideology other than inspire their communities to reject such ideology and speak out against

radical Islam. As previously posted this has occurred, but rarely reported. From today's reporting the killing in Woolwich seems to have generated a groundswell for exactly this response and is being picked up by the media; an example:

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10440721.North_East_Muslims_condemn_murder_of_British_soldier/

Agree any institution led by extremists preaching separatism, hate and death, should have their charity/tax free status cancelled. However, there are challenges with guaranties of Freedom of Speech in some countries. In my opinion, should tighten up the legislation for hate speech from any individual/organisation.

  • Like 1
Posted

The Taqiyya argument is the ultimate cop out argument. It basically says, you are wrong, and even if you prove you are right, you are lying, therefore wrong. In other words, this argument does not prove anything against Islam - it baselessly assumes everything against Islam. Like a fixed sporting event, it determines the winner before the game is played. We find this tactic abhorrent in practical life, and any true seeker after truth should find this tactic abhorrent when discussing intellectual matters.

  • Like 2
Posted

Mosha;

I didn't say it was a majority, I said it was a high proportion; which over a third is.

I live among Muslims; I work with Muslims, I have Muslim friends.

They are not going around preaching jihad, hatred or intolerance.

I have seen far more of that in this topic, and to be frank am ashamed that Thai Visa members should be the ones doing it!

I would expect a forum consisting of people living in a foreign country or who live in the UK with their foreign wife, husband or partner to be more tolerant; sadly it appears that I am wrong.

But remember, people, if your wish becomes true and the BNP, EDL or even UKIP have their way, all people with brown skin will be removed; including your wives!

Live among muslims? muslim friends? work with muslims? God damn your a suicide bomber in the the making!!!

You are wrong! just because we live in a foreign country and have foreign wives, doesn't make it right and doesn't make us hate UK. I for one hope the BNP, EDL or UKIP come to power and bring balance to the force!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Muslims (not all of them) have had to much sway and to much leeway for to long. You don't like our country? F##k off its that simple.

You are either a sympathyser or a fool young man!!!!!!!!

Seems like you belong in 1930s Berlin.

  • Like 1
Posted

U.G.

I am leaving this fascist meeting for good.

Think you missed out, racist, islamaphobicand bigoted, three other labels for the apologist with no real arguments other than to hand out meaningless labels to those who disagree with him.

Posted

Remember the old Burke (allegedly) adage...

"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

There may be many good men among Muslims......and certainly they do speak against the evil within Islam.....but they are sadly lacking towards DOING anything......if you were aware of the hate-speech and Jihad mongering in your local mosque...would you not wish to root it out.

As I said.WHEN I see Muslims storm the mosque and drag out the radical Imams...then I'll accept that there is a concerted movement towards rooting out the evil within.

EDITED TO ADD...: All UK planes grounded as PIA airplane is headed towards Stanstead, some threats apparently.

  • Like 1
Posted

I see the liberals are out again... All well & good for some individuals sat in their predominantly white, non muslim suburbshire

If you are referring to me, I live in a town with a high proportion of Muslims in the population.

It also contains the first mosque ever built in the UK, near to which are the remains of a cemetery where Muslim soldiers killed on the Western front in WW1 were buried.

Their bodies were repatriated after the war. but the memory of these men, volunteers all, who died fighting for this country remains.

Strange, I've seen many war memorials, visited cemetries in France and Belgium and we had Rolls Of Honour boards in my school assembly hall yet none contained any names that were vaguely Islamic.

Posted

U.G.

I, too, have something, a lot actually, against radical Muslim terrorists. But unlike you and many others here, I do not think that all Muslims support them.

TexasRanger,

That some Muslims committed atrocious acts in Kuwait does not mean all Muslims are like that. It's not just Muslims, either; ever heard of a place called My Lai?

chooka;

Yes, the murderers were invoking the name of God whilst they committed this act; that does not mean that they acted in the name of Islam or God; merely that in their perverted, sick minds they thought that they did.

sms747,

Christ may have been a man of peace, but how many people have been tortured in his name, murdered in his name, killed in wars fought in his name? Millions.

And read the Old Testament; full of wars of conquest fought by the Israelites

As for the rest, I have gone over this ground so many times, I am not going to repeat myself, no matter how many times you lot repeat your ignorance and prejudices.

I am leaving this fascist meeting for good.

I'm sorry if that is what you think, but I'll bet burkhas are rare among your local muslims. In my home town even bairns are wearing them. I was lead to believe it was a personal choice, but evidence suggest not. Ranong has a nuslim presence, about 1% have burkhas. Penang, I've yet to see 1

Posted

canuckamuck;

Islam is a peace loving religion, as much as Christianity.

I am not a statesman, I cannot offer a solution to extremism and terrorism, no matter what it's cause or who are it's perpetrators.

This thread shows that ignorance and prejudice are rampant on both sides; despite the efforts of people of peace. While that ignorance and prejudice prevails, I see no solution.

geriatrickid;

You've missed my point. But if you think the problems in Ireland are solved, let alone solved after a mere 30 years, you have no idea about Irish history!

But that is not the topic of this thread; if you wish to discuss Irish history further with me I will be happy to do so via PM.

Yes you have no solutions and nothing valuable to contribute. You seem to be of the opinion that we should just let things play out. Sadly, you will likely get your wish.

So what would you do?

What would I do??? Bomb 'em back into the stone age! Oh wait................they are still living in the stone age!!!

Posted

I see the liberals are out again... All well & good for some individuals sat in their predominantly white, non muslim suburbshire

If you are referring to me, I live in a town with a high proportion of Muslims in the population.

It also contains the first mosque ever built in the UK, near to which are the remains of a cemetery where Muslim soldiers killed on the Western front in WW1 were buried.

Their bodies were repatriated after the war. but the memory of these men, volunteers all, who died fighting for this country remains.

Strange, I've seen many war memorials, visited cemetries in France and Belgium and we had Rolls Of Honour boards in my school assembly hall yet none contained any names that were vaguely Islamic.

FYI...

Among the dead recorded at the Menin Gate Memorial are Muhammad Aslam, Abdullah Khan, Ahmad Khan, Muhammad Usman and many others with recognisably Muslim names.

  • Like 2
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



  • Topics

  • Popular Contributors

  • Latest posts...

    1. 55

      Loneliness in Pattaya

    2. 0

      UK Energy Bills Set to Rise Again in April, Sparking Concern

    3. 0

      Entirely financed by China Pakistan’s Costly New Gwadar Airport Stands Empty

    4. 0

      Dan Bongino’s Appointment Signals Kash Patel’s Vision for the FBI

    5. 0

      Did BBC Pay Hamas Members To Be In Documentary?

  • Popular in The Pub


×
×
  • Create New...