Woolwich Attack: ' Soldier Beheaded' By Ranting Fanatics On Busy London Street

[F4UCorsair]

7by7 said, "I see that those who blame all Muslims for the actions of the few are still in full flow.

I repeat, yet again.

All sane people abhor and condemn not only this obscene murder but the actions of all terrorists."

Chooka said, "So are you saying that the attackers got it wrong and only thought they were doing it in the name of islam. Is allah akba some sort of Budhist prayer and these guys weren't even muslim. Wow for a moment I really thought it was in the name of Islam. I wonder why the majority of the world thought is was an islamic attack and even people like Choudry a high profile muslim said it was for allah and that the attackers didn't go far enough."

I tire of muslims, when confronted with this sort of conduct, dismiss it as "he was insane" or "he isn't a REAL muslim". I've had enough of these people. I am over them, and it's obvious that we have imported major problems. It seems the people to whom it is not obvious are the apologists and politicians. They play the racism card first off, when faced with what could be termed criticism at worst, but it's OK for idiots like choudary to preach hate, and nothing is done. See Chooka's comment above. The low life scum choudary applauded it, said it was for allah, and it didn't go far enough. Why do we tolerate this??? That is not freedom of speech.

[F4UCorsair]

Again, 7by7 said this,

"Well, i for one do not think this attack had anything to do with Islam or anything else but drugs.

Looking at the video, and his manner, i believe he was coming down off drugs either speed or ecstasy."

So the behind the scenes morons who have also been arrested for conspiracy to murder were on drugs as well?? Or did they drug these creeps so they'd go and murder a man walking down the street??

Do not be an apologist for these people.

[Ulysses G.]

I still do not believe it was Islamist related, only because MO just does not fit.

There is now a copy cat in France, which they also try to link to Islamist attack.

I am by no means defending Islamists , however it's not their MO. Aim is always to kill as many as possible , not just 1 person

Al Queda has been telling its supporters to do small strikes like this for some time, because there have been so many failures with larger operations. It still gets the headlines and scares the public, which is the point of terrorism. The murderers were yelling Allah-u-Akbar and went on to explain that they were killing this soldier because Muslims were being bombed in Afganistan. There is no doubt at all that these two savages were Islamic radicals.

[F430murci]

Again, 7by7 said this,

"Well, i for one do not think this attack had anything to do with Islam or anything else but drugs.

Looking at the video, and his manner, i believe he was coming down off drugs either speed or ecstasy."

So the behind the scenes morons who have also been arrested for conspiracy to murder were on drugs as well?? Or did they drug these creeps so they'd go and murder a man walking down the street??

Do not be an apologist for these people.

Someone who just whacked a man's head off with a butcher knife will have a lot of adrenaline flowing and may appear to be on speed. A lot of the Mecican cartel guys take meth before chopping head and limbs of torsos. Apparently, meth makes it easier to do the intended deed.

[sms747]

7by7:

Majic,

I have never read the Koran, I have never claimed to have done; I doubt that you have either.

Thank you admitting you do not know what you are talking about, many HAVE read the koran I suggest you do also

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted.

[Mosha]

In the full length Luton video. One of the clerics said "The extremists are very good at telling their followers to go to places like Iraq, but they never go themselves."

[Mosha]

Again, 7by7 said this,

"Well, i for one do not think this attack had anything to do with Islam or anything else but drugs.

Looking at the video, and his manner, i believe he was coming down off drugs either speed or ecstasy."

So the behind the scenes morons who have also been arrested for conspiracy to murder were on drugs as well?? Or did they drug these creeps so they'd go and murder a man walking down the street??

Do not be an apologist for these people.

Someone who just whacked a man's head off with a butcher knife will have a lot of adrenaline flowing and may appear to be on speed. A lot of the Mecican cartel guys take meth before chopping head and limbs of torsos. Apparently, meth makes it easier to do the intended deed.

I read somewhere soldiers have to be trained to kill at close range. Normal people are hard wired not kill other people.

[GentlemanJim]

After watching those two video clips by the 2 imans for the first time, condemning the murder of Lee Rigby,

i can understand why some people on this forum are referring to them as being a cover up, or

a show to appease the media, or an unmeaning full statement, or bunch of two faced liars.

The reason i say this is because neither of them referred to Lee Rigby by his name as a human being,

instead they referred to him as the "victim" the "soldier and his family and colleagues"

That to me, shows disrespect to Lee Rigby and his family.

Why is it that both separate statements were made in the same manner?

There was one other very interesting bit of language used in the second clip by the head of the Muslim Council. At the end he says of lee rigby, 'May God have mercy on him" !!!! Now the only context I have ever seen that phrase used is in terms of someone who has done wrong, a freudian slip by Mr Smooth of the Muslim council? It certainly doesn't sound right, and he has had a public school education so language is not the issue. Why would God need to show poor Lee Rigby mercy? mmmmmm perhaps because he wasn't muslim? It definitely seems a sub-concious slip of the tongue.

[simple1]

I still do not believe it was Islamist related, only because MO just does not fit.

There is now a copy cat in France, which they also try to link to Islamist attack.

I am by no means defending Islamists , however it's not their MO. Aim is always to kill as many as possible , not just 1 person

Al Queda has been telling its supporters to do small strikes like this for some time, because there have been so many failures with larger operations. It still gets the headlines and scares the public, which is the point of terrorism. The murderers were yelling Allah-u-Akbar and went on to explain that they were killing this soldier because Muslims were being bombed in Afganistan. There is no doubt at all that these two savages were Islamic radicals.

Could be wrong, but I don't believe thier have been any post in this topic claiming the murder was not carried out by two Istamic extremists. These killings by the two extremists were political terrorism, as are all Islamic terror attacks on Western targets. The posts that state attacks are due to calls to kill, just because the victims are non believers in the Islamic faith, are in my opinion, misinformed. If you believe I am incorrect, please point me to attacks, outside of a political context, on Western targets where the killers solely used the justification "kill the infidels". No my comments are not apologist, nor an attempt to excuse murder.

For sake of transparency, as some members know my wife is a Thai Sunni muslim. Personally I am not a believer in Islam.

[chooka]

For those that say this had nothing to do with Islam. I think it is pretty obvious that it had everything to do with Islam.

Kenyan Government confirmed Adebolajo was arrested in Kenya over links to
Somalia's Shebab insurgents more than two years ago.

Government spokesman Muthui Kariuki said Michael Adebolajo had indeed been
arrested in late 2010, saying earlier denials had been due to initial confusion
as he had been arrested under a different name.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/world-news/europe/terror-suspect-michael-adebolajo-marched-with-extremists-at-muslims-against-crusaders-rally/story-fnh81p7g-1226651112574#ixzz2USBjmZXf

[Ulysses G.]

THe post that I quoted was claimimn

I still do not believe it was Islamist related, only because MO just does not fit.

There is now a copy cat in France, which they also try to link to Islamist attack.

I am by no means defending Islamists , however it's not their MO. Aim is always to kill as many as possible , not just 1 person

Al Queda has been telling its supporters to do small strikes like this for some time, because there have been so many failures with larger operations. It still gets the headlines and scares the public, which is the point of terrorism. The murderers were yelling Allah-u-Akbar and went on to explain that they were killing this soldier because Muslims were being bombed in Afganistan. There is no doubt at all that these two savages were Islamic radicals.

Could be wrong, but I don't believe thier have been any post in this topic claiming the murder was not carried out by two Istamic extremists.

The post that I quoted claimed that the killing of the British soldier was caused by drugs - that the killing was not " Islamist related."

[GentlemanJim]

I still do not believe it was Islamist related, only because MO just does not fit.

There is now a copy cat in France, which they also try to link to Islamist attack.

I am by no means defending Islamists , however it's not their MO. Aim is always to kill as many as possible , not just 1 person

Al Queda has been telling its supporters to do small strikes like this for some time, because there have been so many failures with larger operations. It still gets the headlines and scares the public, which is the point of terrorism. The murderers were yelling Allah-u-Akbar and went on to explain that they were killing this soldier because Muslims were being bombed in Afganistan. There is no doubt at all that these two savages were Islamic radicals.

Could be wrong, but I don't believe thier have been any post in this topic claiming the murder was not carried out by two Istamic extremists. These killings by the two extremists were political terrorism, as are all Islamic terror attacks on Western targets. The posts that state attacks are due to calls to kill, just because the victims are non believers in the Islamic faith, are in my opinion, misinformed. If you believe I am incorrect, please point me to attacks, outside of a political context, on Western targets where the killers solely used the justification "kill the infidels". No my comments are not apologist, nor an attempt to excuse murder.

For sake of transparency, as some members know my wife is a Thai Sunni muslim. Personally I am not a believer in Islam.

I am more inclined to believe the murderer who stated his case quite clearly, and his mentor Choudary who states the case even more specifically than what is essentially your subjective opinion. You seem to be in an interesting situation. Normally if a man marries a muslim he must convert to islam and any children must be raised as muslim. I assume your wife is not a practicing Muslim as you say you are a non believer.

[simple1]

I still do not believe it was Islamist related, only because MO just does not fit.

There is now a copy cat in France, which they also try to link to Islamist attack.

I am by no means defending Islamists , however it's not their MO. Aim is always to kill as many as possible , not just 1 person

Al Queda has been telling its supporters to do small strikes like this for some time, because there have been so many failures with larger operations. It still gets the headlines and scares the public, which is the point of terrorism. The murderers were yelling Allah-u-Akbar and went on to explain that they were killing this soldier because Muslims were being bombed in Afganistan. There is no doubt at all that these two savages were Islamic radicals.

Could be wrong, but I don't believe thier have been any post in this topic claiming the murder was not carried out by two Istamic extremists. These killings by the two extremists were political terrorism, as are all Islamic terror attacks on Western targets. The posts that state attacks are due to calls to kill, just because the victims are non believers in the Islamic faith, are in my opinion, misinformed. If you believe I am incorrect, please point me to attacks, outside of a political context, on Western targets where the killers solely used the justification "kill the infidels". No my comments are not apologist, nor an attempt to excuse murder.

For sake of transparency, as some members know my wife is a Thai Sunni muslim. Personally I am not a believer in Islam.

I am more inclined to believe the murderer who stated his case quite clearly, and his mentor Choudary who states the case even more specifically than what is essentially your subjective opinion. You seem to be in an interesting situation. Normally if a man marries a muslim he must convert to islam and any children must be raised as muslim. I assume your wife is not a practicing Muslim as you say you are a non believer.

Off topic: This will be my only response regards my circumstances with my wife. Yes out of respect to my wifes mothers wishes when she was dying, I took the Islamic oath with the local Iman, wife is a practicing moderate Muslim. As said I do not follow Islam and wife and her family know this, as do those I know in the local Muslim community in Pattaya. Comments have been as you show respect & we return the respect and this has been the case for many years

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted. Someone was asked a question and answered. That does not change the course of the topic.

Stay on topic, please.

[samran]

On a thread like this Jim, it would be a miracle if someone understood the concept of tolerence. Expecting high five's is not something I'm looking to do, I'm not that bloody vain. Just offer a counter point from someone who abhores intollerence, wherever it comes from.

[yogi100]

I don't think people with opinions that are disgusted and scared of these types of developments are going to go and behead someone. The mob, might be a little different to what you think.

People are disgusted, and so they should be.

If the response is one which preaches intolerance, then they are no better than the clerics in the mosques who do the same.

You've got a justice system which is the envy of, and a model for half the world. Leave the mob rule for the places that these perpetrators call home.

'You've got a justice system which is the envy of, and a model for half the world'

Thanks, you just made me choke and splutter my tea all over my keyboard!

Our justice system is a ciminals charter run by the the CPS, the Criminal's Protection Service. But actually you're correct it is envied by the vagrants and scoundrels from the four corners of the world not just half the world and they do all in their power to land on our shores and once they do the world is their oyster.

[samran]

I don't think people with opinions that are disgusted and scared of these types of developments are going to go and behead someone. The mob, might be a little different to what you think.

People are disgusted, and so they should be.

If the response is one which preaches intolerance, then they are no better than the clerics in the mosques who do the same.

You've got a justice system which is the envy of, and a model for half the world. Leave the mob rule for the places that these perpetrators call home.

'You've got a justice system which is the envy of, and a model for half the world'

Thanks, you just made me choke and splutter my tea all over my keyboard!

Our justice system is a ciminals charter run by the the CPS, the Criminal's Protection Service. But actually you're correct it is envied by the vagrants and scoundrels from the four corners of the world not just half the world and they do all in their power to land on our shores and once they do the world is their oyster.

The law is an Ass Yogi, and often the best money can buy - but don't tell me vigilantism and forgoeing due process is a better alternative.

[GentlemanJim]

I don't think people with opinions that are disgusted and scared of these types of developments are going to go and behead someone. The mob, might be a little different to what you think.

People are disgusted, and so they should be.

If the response is one which preaches intolerance, then they are no better than the clerics in the mosques who do the same.

You've got a justice system which is the envy of, and a model for half the world. Leave the mob rule for the places that these perpetrators call home.

'You've got a justice system which is the envy of, and a model for half the world'

Thanks, you just made me choke and splutter my tea all over my keyboard!

Our justice system is a ciminals charter run by the the CPS, the Criminal's Protection Service. But actually you're correct it is envied by the vagrants and scoundrels from the four corners of the world not just half the world and they do all in their power to land on our shores and once they do the world is their oyster.

The law is an Ass Yogi, and often the best money can buy - but don't tell me vigilantism and forgoeing due process is a better alternative.

The courts and the justice system are there to punish offenders AFTER they have offended. The courts are powerless to prevent the offences happening, that is the remit of effective, objective, unbiased policing and Government policies to enable such Policing. If the majority of a population who are terrorised do not believe that effective law enforcement is taking place or that the Government is woefully neglectful in it's duties then what do you think is going to happen. The truth is that had effective, honest and fair legislation been in place, then Lee Rigby would be at home with his family, because Choudary and all his hate mongering followers would either be in jail or 'returned to sender'.

[uptheos]

I think the topic has now been forgotten. Partial Quotes below from OP Webfact http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/641495-woolwich-attack-soldier-beheaded-by-ranting-fanatics-on-busy-london-street/

Woolwich Attack: ' Soldier Beheaded' By Ranting Fanatics On Busy London Street

LONDON: -- A man was today “beheaded” by two suspected Islamic terrorists in a barbaric execution on a busy London street in broad daylight.

Senior Whitehall sources claimed the suspects are thought to have tried to film their attack whilst shouting “Allahu Akbar” - God is Great.

Maybe just concentrate staying on topic and commenting on this (and other things in OP thread)?

[chooka]

If a non muslim draws a cartoon or any other action that may imply that the prophet Mohamed or allah were butchers or anything other than pure, then there would be huge demonstrations and calls for thier beheading because they have committed balsphemy.

Michael Adebolajo and Co and others like them across the globe are comitting horrific acts of butchery in the name of Islam because it is what Mohamed and allah have told them to do via the koran. Aren't these acts of terrorism also depicting Islam as a religion as anything but pure and depicting Mohamed and Allah as butchers directing thier flock to perform these Acts.

Where are the mass demonstrations by the muslim flock calling for thier heads for comitting blasphemy? Why aren't they calling for the governments around the world to stand up against these rogue muslims who are bringing the religion into disrepute through thier blasphemous ways? I guess they are tolerant of the actions of muslims but not infidels or they actually condone it.

[Mosha]

If a non muslim draws a cartoon or any other action that may imply that the prophet Mohamed or allah were butchers or anything other than pure, then there would be huge demonstrations and calls for thier beheading because they have committed balsphemy.

Michael Adebolajo and Co and others like them across the globe are comitting horrific acts of butchery in the name of Islam because it is what Mohamed and allah have told them to do via the koran. Aren't these acts of terrorism also depicting Islam as a religion as anything but pure and depicting Mohamed and Allah as butchers directing thier flock to perform these Acts.

Where are the mass demonstrations by the muslim flock calling for thier heads for comitting blasphemy? Why aren't they calling for the governments around the world to stand up against these rogue muslims who are bringing the religion into disrepute through thier blasphemous ways? I guess they are tolerant of the actions of muslims but not infidels or they actually condone it.

All they will say is, we don't know them. They won't criticize other muslims. It's unislamic

[samran]

The courts and the justice system are there to punish offenders AFTER they have offended. The courts are powerless to prevent the offences happening, that is the remit of effective, objective, unbiased policing and Government policies to enable such Policing. If the majority of a population who are terrorised do not believe that effective law enforcement is taking place or that the Government is woefully neglectful in it's duties then what do you think is going to happen. The truth is that had effective, honest and fair legislation been in place, then Lee Rigby would be at home with his family, because Choudary and all his hate mongering followers would either be in jail or 'returned to sender'.

I beleive that the security services work to prevent many of these incidents before they even occur, and we will never know about them. Hate speech, or whatever you want to call it, is never acceptable. But it presents a condunrum. Smarter people than you or I are struggling with how you shut a bloke like that down without trampling on the rights of every other law abiding person in society to have their voice. It is an easy and slipperly slope from outlawing your Chodury's of the world to clamping down on normal dissident voices - a la Thailand for instance.

If you have an answer to that one you are a better man than I.

[GentlemanJim]

I think the topic has now been forgotten. Partial Quotes below from OP Webfact http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/641495-woolwich-attack-soldier-beheaded-by-ranting-fanatics-on-busy-london-street/

Woolwich Attack: ' Soldier Beheaded' By Ranting Fanatics On Busy London Street

LONDON: -- A man was today “beheaded” by two suspected Islamic terrorists in a barbaric execution on a busy London street in broad daylight.

Senior Whitehall sources claimed the suspects are thought to have tried to film their attack whilst shouting “Allahu Akbar” - God is Great.

Maybe just concentrate staying on topic and commenting on this (and other things in OP thread)?

Not that simple though is it? The subject matter of the OP is the end result of a huge social issue affecting many countries and the cause and symptoms have to be addressed. We can all just talk about the 'event' here, in which case the thread would be 5 pages long, or we start to look at preventative measures so that there are no more Lee Rigby's. Prevention, which of course is better than cure, can only be achieved by dialogue of all the issues and conditions that culminated in this atrocity against a young soldier. To ignore the reason why is to let Lee Rigby be slaughtered in vain. If we do as you suggest we just have a thread consisting of 'awful', dreadful', how could they', lock them up forever' etc etc and our obligation to Lee Rigby and his wife and child will never come to fruition.

[uptheos]

The courts and the justice system are there to punish offenders AFTER they have offended. The courts are powerless to prevent the offences happening, that is the remit of effective, objective, unbiased policing and Government policies to enable such Policing. If the majority of a population who are terrorised do not believe that effective law enforcement is taking place or that the Government is woefully neglectful in it's duties then what do you think is going to happen. The truth is that had effective, honest and fair legislation been in place, then Lee Rigby would be at home with his family, because Choudary and all his hate mongering followers would either be in jail or 'returned to sender'.

I beleive that the security services work to prevent many of these incidents before they even occur, and we will never know about them. Hate speech, or whatever you want to call it, is never acceptable. But it presents a condunrum. Smarter people than you or I are struggling with how you shut a bloke like that down without trampling on the rights of every other law abiding person in society to have their voice. It is an easy and slipperly slope from outlawing your Chodury's of the world to clamping down on normal dissident voices - a la Thailand for instance.

If you have an answer to that one you are a better man than I.

I think 'blokes' and women.

Woolwich murder: three more arrested over killing of Lee Rigby

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/26/1

[samran]

The courts and the justice system are there to punish offenders AFTER they have offended. The courts are powerless to prevent the offences happening, that is the remit of effective, objective, unbiased policing and Government policies to enable such Policing. If the majority of a population who are terrorised do not believe that effective law enforcement is taking place or that the Government is woefully neglectful in it's duties then what do you think is going to happen. The truth is that had effective, honest and fair legislation been in place, then Lee Rigby would be at home with his family, because Choudary and all his hate mongering followers would either be in jail or 'returned to sender'.

I beleive that the security services work to prevent many of these incidents before they even occur, and we will never know about them. Hate speech, or whatever you want to call it, is never acceptable. But it presents a condunrum. Smarter people than you or I are struggling with how you shut a bloke like that down without trampling on the rights of every other law abiding person in society to have their voice. It is an easy and slipperly slope from outlawing your Chodury's of the world to clamping down on normal dissident voices - a la Thailand for instance.

If you have an answer to that one you are a better man than I.

I think 'blokes' and women.

Woolwich murder: three more arrested over killing of Lee Rigby

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/26/1

indeed, thanks for the update.

[uptheos]

I think the topic has now been forgotten. Partial Quotes below from OP Webfact http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/641495-woolwich-attack-soldier-beheaded-by-ranting-fanatics-on-busy-london-street/

Woolwich Attack: ' Soldier Beheaded' By Ranting Fanatics On Busy London Street

LONDON: -- A man was today “beheaded” by two suspected Islamic terrorists in a barbaric execution on a busy London street in broad daylight.

Senior Whitehall sources claimed the suspects are thought to have tried to film their attack whilst shouting “Allahu Akbar” - God is Great.

Maybe just concentrate staying on topic and commenting on this (and other things in OP thread)?

Not that simple though is it? The subject matter of the OP is the end result of a huge social issue affecting many countries and the cause and symptoms have to be addressed. We can all just talk about the 'event' here, in which case the thread would be 5 pages long, or we start to look at preventative measures so that there are no more Lee Rigby's. Prevention, which of course is better than cure, can only be achieved by dialogue of all the issues and conditions that culminated in this atrocity against a young soldier. To ignore the reason why is to let Lee Rigby be slaughtered in vain. If we do as you suggest we just have a thread consisting of 'awful', dreadful', how could they', lock them up forever' etc etc and our obligation to Lee Rigby and his wife and child will never come to fruition.

All good points but it goes off topic. Why not start a different thread with your valid points?

[GentlemanJim]

The courts and the justice system are there to punish offenders AFTER they have offended. The courts are powerless to prevent the offences happening, that is the remit of effective, objective, unbiased policing and Government policies to enable such Policing. If the majority of a population who are terrorised do not believe that effective law enforcement is taking place or that the Government is woefully neglectful in it's duties then what do you think is going to happen. The truth is that had effective, honest and fair legislation been in place, then Lee Rigby would be at home with his family, because Choudary and all his hate mongering followers would either be in jail or 'returned to sender'.

I beleive that the security services work to prevent many of these incidents before they even occur, and we will never know about them. Hate speech, or whatever you want to call it, is never acceptable. But it presents a condunrum. Smarter people than you or I are struggling with how you shut a bloke like that down without trampling on the rights of every other law abiding person in society to have their voice. It is an easy and slipperly slope from outlawing your Chodury's of the world to clamping down on normal dissident voices - a la Thailand for instance.

If you have an answer to that one you are a better man than I.

Well, I am sorry but I win then. Hate speech is well defined, in fact an 85 year old woman and many young people have been arrested over the last few days for speaking or tweeting what is defined as hateful speech. All that is required is that the same standard is applied to everyone, including MUslims and then those radicals that are found in breech of the hatred laws would be arrested and dealt with accordingly. This really is not rocket science. This is caused by politicians wanting to secure the votes of 3 million people who are known to be over sensitive and volatile when it comes to any form of criticism of their life style or doctrine. The issue that I think Cameron is perhaps starting to realise is that you can now secure 3 million votes but lose 20 million votes if the present policies remain adhered to. So really, the answer and the implementation of that answer is really simple and it does not breech European Law, it simply sets the same standard across society with NO exceptions.

[sms747]

Allahu Akbar” - God is Great

i think this means our god is greatest, Allah Akbar is god is great.

[GentlemanJim]

I think the topic has now been forgotten. Partial Quotes below from OP Webfact http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/641495-woolwich-attack-soldier-beheaded-by-ranting-fanatics-on-busy-london-street/

Woolwich Attack: 'Soldier Beheaded' By Ranting Fanatics On Busy London Street

LONDON: -- A man was today “beheaded” by two suspected Islamic terrorists in a barbaric execution on a busy London street in broad daylight.

Senior Whitehall sources claimed the suspects are thought to have tried to film their attack whilst shouting “Allahu Akbar” - God is Great.

Maybe just concentrate staying on topic and commenting on this (and other things in OP thread)?

Not that simple though is it? The subject matter of the OP is the end result of a huge social issue affecting many countries and the cause and symptoms have to be addressed. We can all just talk about the 'event' here, in which case the thread would be 5 pages long, or we start to look at preventative measures so that there are no more Lee Rigby's. Prevention, which of course is better than cure, can only be achieved by dialogue of all the issues and conditions that culminated in this atrocity against a young soldier. To ignore the reason why is to let Lee Rigby be slaughtered in vain. If we do as you suggest we just have a thread consisting of 'awful', dreadful', how could they', lock them up forever' etc etc and our obligation to Lee Rigby and his wife and child will never come to fruition.

All good points but it goes off topic. Why not start a different thread with your valid points?

But if you think they are good points you have failed completely to actually get the message of my post. Re-read it, and also look at the top right hand button on this thread 'you may not start new topics'. Almost everything being discussed in the last 40 pages is absolutely relevent. Why are the Mods allowing this to all be discussed and now you try to stifle it? How many times would you like people to say 'this is terrible', because that is what you are implying you want to limit it to.