In Thailand's Schools, Vestiges Of Military Rule

[fotog]

The first thing to do it to take the word military out of the equation as this country has little to be proud of in it's military or military traditions.

.

A better word would be disiplined and perhaps structured which in itself is a good thing for children to learn.

We live in societies which have to have rules in order to survive, however, you can expect zero input from Thai parents who abdicate their parental responsibilities and further burden the education system. Here in Thailand everthing that goes wrong is someone else's fault.

IMO schools should have dress codes, and behaviour protocols which should be sensibly enforced with pertinent punishment for recalcitrance. Parents should be held responsible for the behaviour of their siblings, however, this is a country where no one is prepared or even equipted to take accountability or personal responsibility for anything.

There is a tremendous amount of work needed within the Thai educational system however that is meerley the effect and not the cause. Much work has to be done within the social systems to evolve a nation where people take personal responsibilities and develop a moral and social conscience opposite their actions.

Ah Halion, there's the rub. Thailand really thinks they are a military power to be reckoned with.. never mind the fact that they haven't been in a military fight with anyone since Burma in the 1700's. You see all the teachers wearing some kind of military style uniform. Most politicians including the PM wearing some kind of military style uniform, with all the ribbons, even though they have never been in the military. Doesn't that strike you as kind of odd?

So true as when I first moved here eleven years ago, I thought security guards were some sort of commandoes! I served in the military for twelve years but these guys look ridiculous; and don't even get me started about their non-stop whistle blowing!

[Buckaroo]

I had a real conflict of interest at my previous school in Isaan.

It was a large Government high school and there are about 5000 students.

My son was in M3, he is half Thai and half British, although he looks more European.

It was one of the last days of the term and we did a little skit for the entire school.

It went down very well and we left the stage. I then noticed one of the Thai teachers, a real bully, giving my son the evil eye.

My son had not worn the school belt and this was the reason for his fury.

The teacher approached my boy and let rip with a barrage of Thai words.

Essentially he was not happy that the belt was not worn, he then produced the small but painful stick that is used to discipline naughty kids.

I stepped in and pretty much let have both barrels, removed the stick and threw it across the floor.

He looked furious and started shouting 'Farang' this and 'Farang' that.

The director stepped in and that pretty much diffused the event.

But if he had struck my son, I would have decked the old bugger, whether I would have been fired or not, we will never know.

He was renowned for being over enthusiastic with the stick and is allowed this 'luxury' due to his age.

A real live true story

Good on ya, I would have done the same had it been my daughter, I would have asked later why she did not have the required uniform, but that is what the bully teacher should have done instead of producing a whipping cane. Often they just prey on the weaker because they are lacking in themselves.

[NeverSure]

When I was a child in the US back in the day when our schools were good, there were no uniforms or fingernail inspections. They would enforce haircut issues only if someone got outlandish. There was no corporal punishment but there was discipline and work ethic.

The biggest reason I behaved myself as I look back on it is that my parents demanded it. If I got in trouble with a teacher I was automatically in trouble at home and I might get a couple of shots to the tail there.

Today with many students, the teacher would be the one criticized by the parents. Our parents sided with the teachers even if they disagreed. They'd talk to a teacher privately if they disagreed, but still make me know I had to obey at school.

[nakhonandy]

When we moved to Thailand my daughter was about 10 and had been educated at a private school in Australia that made an effort to get children to question things, in particular what was taught in the classroom. We thought we would do the right thing and enrol her in a bilingual school to learn Thai. Most of the teachers were Thai and at our first teacher parent meeting I was told that she was a bright girl but disruptive in class because she asked too many questions. My one and only experience of Thai education. She was quickly moved to an international school with farang teachers who encouraged this.

I now see the results of this attitude in my Thai staff, virtually non existent initiative and a total fear of questioning anything even if they can see it could be wrong.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Pretty well my experience but with my now wifes Thai son.

She was/is a responsible parent and I asked why she put up with this, simple no money no choice.

We moved him to a better school not costing a fortune where he is encouraged to question things and his level of education has soared!

They are not all bad but a lot of improvement is needed.

[culicine]

paulrobertlane, on 29 May 2013 - 14:57, said:

Classic example of the intelligence levels of the average director.

Yes al know beatings go on but it has been illegal now for almost 8 years. Openly admitting they flout the law to a US news agency is hardly going to endear himself to the MoE or OBEC.

Just about every school in Thailand would be in trouble if parents reported all beatings at their kids schools. Even in my private school it happens (not severe punishment), but it happens. The admin even announced they teachers should not hit kids, yet some Thai teachers still do it - and they are not reprimanded by admin!

[culicine]

When we moved to Thailand my daughter was about 10 and had been educated at a private school in Australia that made an effort to get children to question things, in particular what was taught in the classroom. We thought we would do the right thing and enrol her in a bilingual school to learn Thai. Most of the teachers were Thai and at our first teacher parent meeting I was told that she was a bright girl but disruptive in class because she asked too many questions. My one and only experience of Thai education. She was quickly moved to an international school with farang teachers who encouraged this.

I now see the results of this attitude in my Thai staff, virtually non existent initiative and a total fear of questioning anything even if they can see it could be wrong.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's one reason why I moved my son from the Thai program to my english program. He wasn't allowed to ask questions in class. At least with foreign teachers he is free to ask when he doesn't understand. It seems the philosophy here is just try to fill kids heads with knowledge (what the government of the day whats them to take as gospel), without any real critical thought. This is a silly way to teach because most of societies problems don't have textbook answers.

[culicine]

I had a real conflict of interest at my previous school in Isaan.

It was a large Government high school and there are about 5000 students.

My son was in M3, he is half Thai and half British, although he looks more European.

It was one of the last days of the term and we did a little skit for the entire school.

It went down very well and we left the stage. I then noticed one of the Thai teachers, a real bully, giving my son the evil eye.

My son had not worn the school belt and this was the reason for his fury.

The teacher approached my boy and let rip with a barrage of Thai words.

Essentially he was not happy that the belt was not worn, he then produced the small but painful stick that is used to discipline naughty kids.

I stepped in and pretty much let have both barrels, removed the stick and threw it across the floor.

He looked furious and started shouting 'Farang' this and 'Farang' that.

The director stepped in and that pretty much diffused the event.

But if he had struck my son, I would have decked the old bugger, whether I would have been fired or not, we will never know.

He was renowned for being over enthusiastic with the stick and is allowed this 'luxury' due to his age.

A real live true story

Good on ya, I would have done the same had it been my daughter, I would have asked later why she did not have the required uniform, but that is what the bully teacher should have done instead of producing a whipping cane. Often they just prey on the weaker because they are lacking in themselves.

Hope you did that in front of other Thai teachers so the jerk lost face. I would have my camera at the ready and dared him. I hate jerk teachers like that. Old government officers who can't lose their jobs. They really are quite worthless. It just shows how they care more about looks than substance. Edited May 30, 2013 by culicine

[harrry]

Could do with a bit more of that discipline in the West.

In Australia no problem with discipline in schools.. If there is any trouple the kid is suspended from school for a month,, goes back is a month behind and gets into trouble because he cannot keep up.....out for three months........soon out for good.

That way schools do not have problem students, society just has problem future adults without an education.

Edited May 30, 2013 by harrry

[Dibbler]

If you pay teachers peanuts like they do in government schools, sometimes you will get the wrong kind of people teaching your kids (individuals with low IQ that would fail higher level teacher training courses, control freaks, insecurity, and other personality disorders). At least in Bangkok there are reasonable alternatives to government schools that aren't that expensive, like the Satit demonstration schools - Thai schools with bilingual/ international programmes.

Thai teachers are well paid married to one thats how I know, so that excuse is a non starter.

Yes, Thai government school teachers are well paid compared to forest rangers, laborers, bus drivers and restaurant service staff, and can make a base salary of 12,000THB plus free housing and utilities that could make it up to 20,000THB. Compared to other professions this is a low wage, especially for those living in the larger cities in Thailand, which means it's an attractive proposition only to those who are completely dedicated to the cause, or those who would never be hired by a private or international school.

[masuk]

I've often wondered about the military set-up in Thai schools.

Last year I was visiting a Thai school and a person who I thought was a vice Admiral or similar walked past, brilliant white uniform, heaps of bars on his shoulders.

I enquired who this high-ranking person might be, and was told that was the official govt. employee uniform, and he had a function to attend.

Wot a load of..... Next time I'd be tempted to ask if he sells ice creams!!

[harrry]

The australian uniform is a suit and thai. Or formal skirt blouse and top for females when attending formal events. In australia this is not majority wear these days.

Here at one time teachers were all royal court employees as were all local government officials down to the lowest cleaner. It was an honour to perform these roles and part of the remuneration (which was often low and with the right to supplement by local charges) was the right to wear a court uniform. Like all courts there were low and high and these are reflected in the range of uniforms. Of course long service, good work and efficiency was rewarded by royal awards and these bedame the ribons jewels and medals worn on formal occasions.

It may look military but it really predates that.

Like hair lenght and school uniforms now it has little really to do now with the standard of teaching and learning but may help a sprit of unity.

Edited May 30, 2013 by harrry

[Buckaroo]

If you pay teachers peanuts like they do in government schools, sometimes you will get the wrong kind of people teaching your kids (individuals with low IQ that would fail higher level teacher training courses, control freaks, insecurity, and other personality disorders). At least in Bangkok there are reasonable alternatives to government schools that aren't that expensive, like the Satit demonstration schools - Thai schools with bilingual/ international programmes.

Thai teachers are well paid married to one thats how I know, so that excuse is a non starter.

Yes, Thai government school teachers are well paid compared to forest rangers, laborers, bus drivers and restaurant service staff, and can make a base salary of 12,000THB plus free housing and utilities that could make it up to 20,000THB. Compared to other professions this is a low wage, especially for those living in the larger cities in Thailand, which means it's an attractive proposition only to those who are completely dedicated to the cause, or those who would never be hired by a private or international school.

Starting level of 12000 that goes to 30+ depending on completion of certain exams + some get housing + Johnny wants grade 4 money + private lessons + free trips and holidays + enrollment money when the school is nearly full + a pension +++++++++++++++++ on, and on, and on, and on, and on.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Buckaroo

[cup-O-coffee]

People keep on approaching this failure in society and continue to not hold the parents responsible. This is how socialism gets its hands on your children and turns them into automatons.

I cannot express enough how emphatically strong I view the parent's role in education and learning for their child, from the time of its birth until attending any institution or daycare.

Forget the parents and dote on the poor children, and let the children have a hand in how they are raised, or even let other people raise them they way they see fit, and you will have a recipe for disaster in some future society; namely the children will think and say and do what Big Brother, Big Religion and Big Corporation tells them to.

Mr. Thepkanjana said students should be encouraged to form opinions and debate. Well, Mr. Thepkanjana, just exactly what kind of content are you proposing, and exactly what kind of moderation rules do you propose introducing to these children, who have no parental support whilst you get your hands on them and lock them away in some room for 6 or 7 hours per day?

I am skeptical since you failed to even once mention your concern for parental involvement. I am not saying you are of evil intent, but as a parent, why do you refuse to acknowledge what is best for my child without respect to me as a parent? Not good enough for your galactic solutions of world peace and human self-actualization?

And yes. Thai schools are the worst for shaping the character of a human being as well as providing good health and well-being and all the other traits which make a well-adjusted human being in today's International forum.

[indyuk]

The last vestiges of militay rule have little to do with what is wrong in Thai schools todayand that is Most Thai school children, at every level of Thai education, cheat and so do most Thai school teachers. Worse still many Thai teachers aid and abet the Cheating of their students. I did try to stop some of the cheating but failed miserabley. The one educattion system tha I came accross that is very effective are the Queen Sirikit sponsored residential vocational schools

[fotog]

Dibbler Quote: If you pay teachers peanuts like they do in government schools, sometimes you will get the wrong kind of people teaching your kids (individuals with low IQ that would fail higher level teacher training courses, control freaks, insecurity, and other personality disorders). At least in Bangkok there are reasonable alternatives to government schools that aren't that expensive, like the Satitdemonstration schools - Thai schools with bilingual/ international programmes.

~~~~~

Quote: "At least in Bangkok there are reasonable alternatives to government schools that aren't that expensive, like the Satit demonstration schools - Thai schools with bilingual/ international programmes."

http://prasarnmitinternationalprogram.com/admissions/fees/

There is a Satit demonstration school attached to the campus at the university five minutes from my condo; I have reliable sources that told me they have a question on the application that asks; "What can you contribute to the school?"

One parent in my building answered that she could contribute 200,000 thb- DENIED!

Another lady in my buiLding said she could contribute 300,000 thb - DENIED!

A third lady has four children and she said she would contribute a new van - ACCEPTED!

If one works at the attached university; then their children can attend free of charge.

I don't know how much 'Tea Money' is enough to be admitted; but it is certainly more that the posted rate on their website.

Edited May 30, 2013 by fotog

[culicine]

Dibbler Quote: If you pay teachers peanuts like they do in government schools, sometimes you will get the wrong kind of people teaching your kids (individuals with low IQ that would fail higher level teacher training courses, control freaks, insecurity, and other personality disorders). At least in Bangkok there are reasonable alternatives to government schools that aren't that expensive, like the Satitdemonstration schools - Thai schools with bilingual/ international programmes.

~~~~~

Quote: "At least in Bangkok there are reasonable alternatives to government schools that aren't that expensive, like the [/size]Satit demonstration schools - Thai schools with bilingual/ international programmes."[/size]

http://prasarnmitinternationalprogram.com/admissions/fees/

There is a Satit demonstration school attached to the campus at the university five minutes from my condo; I have reliable sources that told me they have a question on the application that asks; "What can you contribute to the school?"

One parent in my building answered that she could contribute 200,000 thb- DENIED!

Another lady in my buiLding said she could contribute 300,000 thb - DENIED!

A third lady has four children and she said she would contribute a new van - ACCEPTED!

If one works at the attached university; then their children can attend free of charge.

I don't know how much 'Tea Money' is enough to be admitted; but it is certainly more that the posted rate on their website.

I've also heard of the school van story from a friend- a well known 'teach-to-the-entrance-exam'satit school attached to a university.

[Dibbler]

Dibbler Quote: If you pay teachers peanuts like they do in government schools, sometimes you will get the wrong kind of people teaching your kids (individuals with low IQ that would fail higher level teacher training courses, control freaks, insecurity, and other personality disorders). At least in Bangkok there are reasonable alternatives to government schools that aren't that expensive, like the Satitdemonstration schools - Thai schools with bilingual/ international programmes.

~~~~~

Quote: "At least in Bangkok there are reasonable alternatives to government schools that aren't that expensive, like the Satit demonstration schools - Thai schools with bilingual/ international programmes."

http://prasarnmitinternationalprogram.com/admissions/fees/

There is a Satit demonstration school attached to the campus at the university five minutes from my condo; I have reliable sources that told me they have a question on the application that asks; "What can you contribute to the school?"

One parent in my building answered that she could contribute 200,000 thb- DENIED!

Another lady in my buiLding said she could contribute 300,000 thb - DENIED!

A third lady has four children and she said she would contribute a new van - ACCEPTED!

If one works at the attached university; then their children can attend free of charge.

I don't know how much 'Tea Money' is enough to be admitted; but it is certainly more that the posted rate on their website.

Our experience is that my son passed the standard aptitude test on his own merits and my wife and I answered that very question in the application form by offering our time to assist from time to time with school outings and excursions - ACCEPTED. I too have heard that different Satit schools have different entrance procedures and little darlings that don't pass the intake tests may in special cases be able to get in with some financial contribution from the parents. But it's usually based on the interview with the parents, and the aptitude of the child. Places are limited so that class sizes are under 25, and teachers are a cut above the average or significantly better (and must be paid more), which is why the Satit schools are considered good environments for learning. If the school you mentioned is turning back "contributions" that large they must really not want those kids and their parents associated with the school! At the end of the day it's the parent that is responsible for the after hours education, homework, guidance with studies, and good progress. But it certainly helps having a teacher that's a good role model that the kids respect and enjoy learning with, and you're unlikely to have that in a regular government school.

[rijb]

I think the Thai culture of 'questions = confrontation' is a bigger barrier to education than "military vestiges". (see below)

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/print.php?id=10398 Asking ''what's your name?'' or ''how do you do?'' is one thing. But when you question information, tradition, opinion and belief, it is a form of confrontation. In our culture, many deem this rude, aggressive and inappropriate.

[aboctok]

Could do with a bit more of that discipline in the West.

I don't agree. That's what the west has got. Individualism. There are costs but also great benefits. Hard to have it both ways.

The 'individualism' can come later - after they've got a good education in the 3 R's and a bit more.

A good education always includes some fierce beatings. How else can we naturally produce people who will continue the tradition? Which should be continued, because that's how we do things. We know this because that's how we grew up. Etc.

[paulmw]

If you pay teachers peanuts like they do in government schools, sometimes you will get the wrong kind of people teaching your kids (individuals with low IQ that would fail higher level teacher training courses, control freaks, insecurity, and other personality disorders). At least in Bangkok there are reasonable alternatives to government schools that aren't that expensive, like the Satit demonstration schools - Thai schools with bilingual/ international programmes.

Thai teachers are well paid married to one thats how I know, so that excuse is a non starter.

Yes, Thai government school teachers are well paid compared to forest rangers, laborers, bus drivers and restaurant service staff, and can make a base salary of 12,000THB plus free housing and utilities that could make it up to 20,000THB. Compared to other professions this is a low wage, especially for those living in the larger cities in Thailand, which means it's an attractive proposition only to those who are completely dedicated to the cause, or those who would never be hired by a private or international school.

My ex makes 32K 18 years teaching, plus with the pay scam introduced a few years ago, if she kisses the directors A**e enough she will get 2X 2% rise a year + cheap loans that she can never repay,

Grosses 32K walks away with 15K so many loans to pay off.

Some at her school walk away after paying loans off with only 5K.

You don’t lease or pay for a Toyota Fortuna earning peanuts, check out school parking lots. ( Forgot to add Issan school parking lots)

Edited May 30, 2013 by paulmw

[fotog]

Dibbler Quote: If you pay teachers peanuts like they do in government schools, sometimes you will get the wrong kind of people teaching your kids (individuals with low IQ that would fail higher level teacher training courses, control freaks, insecurity, and other personality disorders). At least in Bangkok there are reasonable alternatives to government schools that aren't that expensive, like the Satitdemonstration schools - Thai schools with bilingual/ international programmes.

~~~~~

Quote: "At least in Bangkok there are reasonable alternatives to government schools that aren't that expensive, like the Satit demonstration schools - Thai schools with bilingual/ international programmes."

http://prasarnmitinternationalprogram.com/admissions/fees/

There is a Satit demonstration school attached to the campus at the university five minutes from my condo; I have reliable sources that told me they have a question on the application that asks; "What can you contribute to the school?"

One parent in my building answered that she could contribute 200,000 thb- DENIED!

Another lady in my buiLding said she could contribute 300,000 thb - DENIED!

A third lady has four children and she said she would contribute a new van - ACCEPTED!

If one works at the attached university; then their children can attend free of charge.

I don't know how much 'Tea Money' is enough to be admitted; but it is certainly more that the posted rate on their website.

Our experience is that my son passed the standard aptitude test on his own merits and my wife and I answered that very question in the application form by offering our time to assist from time to time with school outings and excursions - ACCEPTED. I too have heard that different Satit schools have different entrance procedures and little darlings that don't pass the intake tests may in special cases be able to get in with some financial contribution from the parents. But it's usually based on the interview with the parents, and the aptitude of the child. Places are limited so that class sizes are under 25, and teachers are a cut above the average or significantly better (and must be paid more), which is why the Satit schools are considered good environments for learning. If the school you mentioned is turning back "contributions" that large they must really not want those kids and their parents associated with the school! At the end of the day it's the parent that is responsible for the after hours education, homework, guidance with studies, and good progress. But it certainly helps having a teacher that's a good role model that the kids respect and enjoy learning with, and you're unlikely to have that in a regular government school.

Thanks for that Dibbler; I do have some useful skills that the school and children might be interested in with offering assistance. Don't know how it would be viewed from my visa status as I understand I am not allowed to even volunteer on a retirement visa.

[Mousehound]

Me, strong dislike of authoritarianism, be it in school or in the community. "Discipline" is not teaching. Teachers need to inspire and lead, generate interest, foster education—that sort of thing. And, yes, that can be done. And yes, I have taught, at several levels of education, in Australia. It is easy to be an authoritarian teacher, certainly if you are a bad or lazy teacher, and then blame the students for acting poorly and not learning. Authoritative schools reflect an authoritative society, dull, unimaginative, oppressive, and corrupt.

So, put a big tick in the NO box for the current Thai edu system. Students need to challenge, be provocative, think of new things, and be creative.

But being taught self disciple is part of growing up. And whilst I agree that there is no place for corporal punishment there do have to be rules, and they do need to be followed. A system that continually allows students to push the boundaries to the point that the system starts to break down is doing the students as well as society a disservice.