Don't Vote For Thai Amnesty Bill, Fabio Polenghi's Sister Pleads

[gemini81]

If Dr. Thaksin hadn't funded (there's lots of proof that he did) his attempted coup d’état by the Red Shirt mobs in 2010 there wouldn't be a need for 'Amnesty' or 'Reconciliation' bills now and 93 +or- people and their families would still be whole. Khun Tarit knows full well who funded and then escalated the violence that Spring. Khun Tarit is protecting himself and Dr. Thaksin and is a willing tool of Dr. Thaksin's ambitions. The families of 'Nurse Kate and Mr. Polenghi will not be bought off and this is creating difficulties for the PTP. There is also a large faction of Red Shirts who are against amnesty of any kind as they have been convinced that the Red Shirts did nothing wrong and that all the blame goes to Abhisit, Suthep, the Army, and the Amataya that fund and support them.

So . . . you're blaming the murder of this man on Thaksin and his policies?

That is the most pathetic 'reasoning' and apologist rubbish I have ever read. Yes, Thaksin belongs in jail for a very, very long time but to direct causality like this is simply . . . dumb.

Really! Why?

Thaksin was the reason the reds were there.

Thaksin was the reason the reds didn't honour the agreement made. A phone call at the 11th hour from Thaksin.

Thaksins minions on stage are the ones that stoked up the crowd to fever pitch.

Thaksins watermelon police did nothing in the beginning to restrict the rally.

So yes Thaksin and the red leaders are also responsible for what happened as are Abhisit and Suthep. Stupid decisions were made. Lack of training and command at army level compounded those decisions.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Plus, this man KNEW he was taking a life threatening risk for the pictures. I may pity his mom or family, but not him. He jumped into the fire on his own free will, knowing damn well....

[thaicbr]

It seems that many farangs like to poke their noses into thai politics which have nothing to do with them...

strange it seems that why are the western countries still pouring monies and aids into Afghanistan and Iraq and other countries where their news men and aid workers are being killed....

chuang.

Why do Thai politics have nothing to do with us?

[Sing_Sling]

Plus, this man KNEW he was taking a life threatening risk for the pictures. I may pity his mom or family, but not him. He jumped into the fire on his own free will, knowing damn well....

So it is ok for the regime under Abisith to target and murder journos because it's their risk . . . and because Bangkok is like Iraq and Afghanistan.

That cursed Thaksin has a lot to answer for

[thaicbr]

If Dr. Thaksin hadn't funded (there's lots of proof that he did) his attempted coup d’état by the Red Shirt mobs in 2010 there wouldn't be a need for 'Amnesty' or 'Reconciliation' bills now and 93 +or- people and their families would still be whole. Khun Tarit knows full well who funded and then escalated the violence that Spring. Khun Tarit is protecting himself and Dr. Thaksin and is a willing tool of Dr. Thaksin's ambitions. The families of 'Nurse Kate and Mr. Polenghi will not be bought off and this is creating difficulties for the PTP. There is also a large faction of Red Shirts who are against amnesty of any kind as they have been convinced that the Red Shirts did nothing wrong and that all the blame goes to Abhisit, Suthep, the Army, and the Amataya that fund and support them.

So . . . you're blaming the murder of this man on Thaksin and his policies?

That is the most pathetic 'reasoning' and apologist rubbish I have ever read. Yes, Thaksin belongs in jail for a very, very long time but to direct causality like this is simply . . . dumb.

Really! Why?

Thaksin was the reason the reds were there.

Thaksin was the reason the reds didn't honour the agreement made. A phone call at the 11th hour from Thaksin.

Thaksins minions on stage are the ones that stoked up the crowd to fever pitch.

Thaksins watermelon police did nothing in the beginning to restrict the rally.

So yes Thaksin and the red leaders are also responsible for what happened as are Abhisit and Suthep. Stupid decisions were made. Lack of training and command at army level compounded those decisions.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Plus, this man KNEW he was taking a life threatening risk for the pictures. I may pity his mom or family, but not him. He jumped into the fire on his own free will, knowing damn well....

I wish that this man along with the rest were not dead. But this is how he made a living, going into danger zones and taking pictures for cash.

Under the circumstances he could have maybe protected himself better in the sense of not wearing the same colour as the opposing forces.

There is a reason why in most countries that allow hunting you wear hi viz vests.. So you do not get accidentally shot.

Photographers at the protest

armed black shirts at the protest

A wise man wearing a hi viz vest at the protest..... See the difference.

Any way who's to blame for the deaths.. Many people from Thaksin to Abhisit to the commanders and troops on the ground and to a certain extent the actual protesters.

[thaicbr]

Plus, this man KNEW he was taking a life threatening risk for the pictures. I may pity his mom or family, but not him. He jumped into the fire on his own free will, knowing damn well....

So it is ok for the regime under Abisith to target and murder journos because it's their risk . . . and because Bangkok is like Iraq and Afghanistan.

That cursed Thaksin has a lot to answer for

Where does it say journalists were targeted?

[khunken]

If she's truly wants no amnesty for all, she should be petitioning the party leader in Dubai. He's the one determining which of the amnesty bills is going forward. If she wants them all to stop, she should make a direct public appeal to him to intervene. He certainly has the power to do so.

Easily one of the more ridiculous posts, which is saying something

Actually the comment is ridiculous to an eminently sensible post.

Is your head in the sand regarding the numerous amnesty bills, each one vetted by DL. As Ballpoint says, there is only one side pushing amnesty bills & it's not the opposition.

Also, it is very sad to see (but not untypical) the red shirts using this woman to further their aims. Actually the anti-amnesty thrust will tend to pour cold water on Thaksin's ambitions and put his PTP acolytes in a real pickle.

By the way, I don't agree with any amnesty.

[gemini81]

Plus, this man KNEW he was taking a life threatening risk for the pictures. I may pity his mom or family, but not him. He jumped into the fire on his own free will, knowing damn well....

So it is ok for the regime under Abisith to target and murder journos because it's their risk . . . and because Bangkok is like Iraq and Afghanistan.

That cursed Thaksin has a lot to answer for

Don't put words in my mouth. They didn't target nor murder......! He stepped into the crossfire, knowing full well. He's responsible for himself and to blame. You and I both already know that, unless you prefer to play dumb and/or show you didn't read the above nor were present in BKK at the time. Edited May 31, 2013 by gemini81

[hyperdimension]

It's interesting to read that Shawn Crispin was at the press conference. I wonder how much conversation he had with Fabio's sister, as he seems to have quite a bit of an idea of what's really going on in the big picture. Here is an excellent article by him that was published 2 months ago: No war, no peace in Thailand

Edited May 31, 2013 by hyperdimension

[Thai at Heart]

So what if she is receiving a lot of publicity - why would you have a problem with that? I guess had your brother/sister/mother/father been murdered you would simply shrug your shoulders and keep keep stuffing burgers down your throat, preferring to not make a fuss as you wouldn't want to stand out from the crowd of murder victims.

Respect for this woman - she is an example as to how the other victims should be vocal

I don't have a problem with her receiving publicity but why don't the media give all the victims & their families more attention including soldiers who lost their lives. Could it be the hand of a certain Mr Amsterdam who feels this will garner more attention internationally than the Thai victims. BTW your burger comment is pathetic to say the least & nothing whatsoever to do with the thread.

You are being extremely obtuse - now you bring Thaksin into it . . . the woman is raining hell and keeps raising hell because her brother was murdered - the point that not all others do th same has nothing to do with her nor Thaksin.

That is what is pathetic - but keep those burgers rolling

If Dr. Thaksin hadn't funded (there's lots of proof that he did) his attempted coup détat by the Red Shirt mobs in 2010 there wouldn't be a need for 'Amnesty' or 'Reconciliation' bills now and 93 +or- people and their families would still be whole. Khun Tarit knows full well who funded and then escalated the violence that Spring. Khun Tarit is protecting himself and Dr. Thaksin and is a willing tool of Dr. Thaksin's ambitions. The families of 'Nurse Kate and Mr. Polenghi will not be bought off and this is creating difficulties for the PTP. There is also a large faction of Red Shirts who are against amnesty of any kind as they have been convinced that the Red Shirts did nothing wrong and that all the blame goes to Abhisit, Suthep, the Army, and the Amataya that fund and support them.

So . . . you're blaming the murder of this man on Thaksin and his policies?

That is the most pathetic 'reasoning' and apologist rubbish I have ever read. Yes, Thaksin belongs in jail for a very, very long time but to direct causality like this is simply . . . dumb.

Welcome to ThaiVisa!

It's quite ridiculous.

I have no love for the man (Thaksin), believe he should be held accountable for all his crimes from his telecom days to the southern massacres and beyond . . . and believe he should spend a very long time in jail . . .

What I find irritating is this knee-jerk apologist reaction by foreigners in defending Abisith and blaming Thaksin at all costs. It not only sounds ludicrous but also quite . . . silly in a childish way

Amazingly, no one blames the army.

[amore]

Plus, this man KNEW he was taking a life threatening risk for the pictures. I may pity his mom or family, but not him. He jumped into the fire on his own free will, knowing damn well....

So it is ok for the regime under Abisith to target and murder journos because it's their risk . . . and because Bangkok is like Iraq and Afghanistan.

That cursed Thaksin has a lot to answer for

Don't put words in my mouth. They didn't target nor murder......! He stepped into the crossfire, knowing full well. He's responsible for himself and to blame. You and I both already know that, unless you prefer to play dumb and/or show you didn't read the above nor were present in BKK at the time.

Would you extend that argument to the military? Using your logic it was just part of the job description, if they got shot, it was to be expected, they were in a warzone (the only difference between a journo and a soldier is the soldiers have got the guns). Everybody makes a fuss about the soldiers, shooting civilians is OK.

Thats how ridiculous your argument is.

He had minimised the risks as much as possible, helmet, Press tags, moving away from the gunfire, no one around him at the time who was a threat to the military, so why did the soldiers keep on firing?

[Thai at Heart]

Plus, this man KNEW he was taking a life threatening risk for the pictures. I may pity his mom or family, but not him. He jumped into the fire on his own free will, knowing damn well....

So it is ok for the regime under Abisith to target and murder journos because it's their risk . . . and because Bangkok is like Iraq and Afghanistan.

That cursed Thaksin has a lot to answer for

Don't put words in my mouth. They didn't target nor murder......! He stepped into the crossfire, knowing full well. He's responsible for himself and to blame. You and I both already know that, unless you prefer to play dumb and/or show you didn't read the above nor were present in BKK at the time.

Would you extend that argument to the military? Using your logic it was just part of the job description, if they got shot, it was to be expected, they were in a warzone (the only difference between a journo and a soldier is the soldiers have got the guns). Everybody makes a fuss about the soldiers, shooting civilians is OK.

Thats how ridiculous your argument is.

He had minimised the risks as much as possible, helmet, Press tags, moving away from the gunfire, no one around him at the time who was a threat to the military, so why did the soldiers keep on firing?

If I remember reading, this occurred the beginning of the push, and reading the reports there was initially gunfire from both sides and then a lull for several minutes.

Then the two reporters made a run for it. Twitchy soldiers making a show of force at the beginning of the push seeing people legging it down the road towards the red lines.

I bet the shots were taken instinctively without even bothering to check if these guys were press or not.

[Sing_Sling]

Plus, this man KNEW he was taking a life threatening risk for the pictures. I may pity his mom or family, but not him. He jumped into the fire on his own free will, knowing damn well....

So it is ok for the regime under Abisith to target and murder journos because it's their risk . . . and because Bangkok is like Iraq and Afghanistan.

That cursed Thaksin has a lot to answer for

Don't put words in my mouth. They didn't target nor murder......! He stepped into the crossfire, knowing full well. He's responsible for himself and to blame. You and I both already know that, unless you prefer to play dumb and/or show you didn't read the above nor were present in BKK at the time.

Would you extend that argument to the military? Using your logic it was just part of the job description, if they got shot, it was to be expected, they were in a warzone (the only difference between a journo and a soldier is the soldiers have got the guns). Everybody makes a fuss about the soldiers, shooting civilians is OK.

Thats how ridiculous your argument is.

He had minimised the risks as much as possible, helmet, Press tags, moving away from the gunfire, no one around him at the time who was a threat to the military, so why did the soldiers keep on firing?

Because they were targeting him . . . that's quite obvious to all bar those with some odd agena

[Sing_Sling]

So what if she is receiving a lot of publicity - why would you have a problem with that? I guess had your brother/sister/mother/father been murdered you would simply shrug your shoulders and keep keep stuffing burgers down your throat, preferring to not make a fuss as you wouldn't want to stand out from the crowd of murder victims.

Respect for this woman - she is an example as to how the other victims should be vocal

I don't have a problem with her receiving publicity but why don't the media give all the victims & their families more attention including soldiers who lost their lives. Could it be the hand of a certain Mr Amsterdam who feels this will garner more attention internationally than the Thai victims. BTW your burger comment is pathetic to say the least & nothing whatsoever to do with the thread.

You are being extremely obtuse - now you bring Thaksin into it . . . the woman is raining hell and keeps raising hell because her brother was murdered - the point that not all others do th same has nothing to do with her nor Thaksin.

That is what is pathetic - but keep those burgers rolling

Welcome to ThaiVisa!

It's quite ridiculous.

I have no love for the man (Thaksin), believe he should be held accountable for all his crimes from his telecom days to the southern massacres and beyond . . . and believe he should spend a very long time in jail . . .

What I find irritating is this knee-jerk apologist reaction by foreigners in defending Abisith and blaming Thaksin at all costs. It not only sounds ludicrous but also quite . . . silly in a childish way

Amazingly, no one blames the army.

And the army is under the control of the elected officials at the time . . . and trying to blame Thaksin is absolutely ridiculous -he has enough blame to shoulder for many, many things.

[amore]

If I remember reading, this occurred the beginning of the push, and reading the reports there was initially gunfire from both sides and then a lull for several minutes.

Then the two reporters made a run for it. Twitchy soldiers making a show of force at the beginning of the push seeing people legging it down the road towards the red lines.

I bet the shots were taken instinctively without even bothering to check if these guys were press or not.

Not quite right, an eyewitness account from Bradley Cox who was with Fabio Polenghi at the time

Bradley, said both he and Fabio had taken footage of a protester shot in the leg around 10:45 a.m. About 15 minutes later, Bradley said, sensing a lull in the shooting, he moved away from a barricade controlled by the UDD and into a nearly empty road to investigate a commotion among protesters approximately 30 to 40 meters away. Bradley said Fabio followed a few steps behind. While they both ran down the road, Bradley said he felt a sudden, sharp pain in the side of his leg. It turned out that a bullet had grazed his knee, causing a minor injury. When he turned to look back in the direction of the troops, he saw Fabio sprawled on the ground about two or three meters behind him.

Fabio was wearing a blue helmet with the word “Press” written across the front and back, and a green armband indicating that he was a working journalist.

“My feeling at the time was that we were shot at the exact same time, perhaps even with the same gun,” said Bradley, adding that he didn’t hear the gunshot or shots that hit him or Fabio. “I don’t know who shot me or Fabio, but if the military was trying to shoot red shirts, there was no one around us. …Soldiers were firing at anything or anybody.”

As I said both guys are running away from the Army, they do not constitute a threat to the army, Why did the soldiers shoot at them? It doesn't matter whether they were journalists or protesters or ambulance workers - they were running away and were not a threat. Even by the revised ROE there is no excuse for what happened.

[phantomfiddler]

I for one am completely in agreement with the family of the slain italian reporter, but for a different reason. Do they not realise that the need for intervention was made absolutely neccessary by the behaviour of the redshirt thugs who were taking over the center of Bangkok ? No government in any other country would have been so lenient in dealing with the building of a fortress in the hub of Bangkok, and the calibre of the bullet that killed the reporter was not that used by the thai military. My condolences on the death of your son, but do not be too hasty in laying the blame on the previous government. Other forces were at work at this time, unconnected to the government, more likely to have specialised weapons, and devoid of principles. Who said "If I am guilty, shoot me", and who ran ?

[amore]

I for one am completely in agreement with the family of the slain italian reporter, but for a different reason. Do they not realise that the need for intervention was made absolutely neccessary by the behaviour of the redshirt thugs who were taking over the center of Bangkok ? No government in any other country would have been so lenient in dealing with the building of a fortress in the hub of Bangkok, and the calibre of the bullet that killed the reporter was not that used by the thai military. My condolences on the death of your son, but do not be too hasty in laying the blame on the previous government. Other forces were at work at this time, unconnected to the government, more likely to have specialised weapons, and devoid of principles. Who said "If I am guilty, shoot me", and who ran ?

"the calibre of the bullet that killed the reporter was not that used by the thai military"

Well the Inquest found differently and they're likely to be more au fait with the facts than you, would you agree?

Inquest finds Thai army bullet killed Italian photographer during 2010 political unrest

By Associated Press, Published: May 29

BANGKOK — An Italian photographer killed while covering the Thai military’s crackdown on anti-government protesters in Bangkok three years ago was shot by a high-velocity bullet like those issued to soldiers, a judge said Wednesday.

It was likely Polenghi was killed by a bullet from the .223 cartridge which was used with M-16 and HK33 rifles issued to soldiers on the ground that day, the inquest said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/thai-inquest-finds-army-bullet-killed-italian-photographer-during-2010-political-unrest/2013/05/29/a8647e4c-c821-11e2-9cd9-3b9a22a4000a_story.html

Edited May 31, 2013 by amore

[thaicbr]

I for one am completely in agreement with the family of the slain italian reporter, but for a different reason. Do they not realise that the need for intervention was made absolutely neccessary by the behaviour of the redshirt thugs who were taking over the center of Bangkok ? No government in any other country would have been so lenient in dealing with the building of a fortress in the hub of Bangkok, and the calibre of the bullet that killed the reporter was not that used by the thai military. My condolences on the death of your son, but do not be too hasty in laying the blame on the previous government. Other forces were at work at this time, unconnected to the government, more likely to have specialised weapons, and devoid of principles. Who said "If I am guilty, shoot me", and who ran ?

"the calibre of the bullet that killed the reporter was not that used by the thai military"

Well the Inquest found differently and they're likely to be more au fait with the facts than you, would you agree?

>Inquest finds Thai army bullet killed Italian photographer during 2010 political unrest

By Associated Press, Published: May 29

BANGKOK — An Italian photographer killed while covering the Thai military’s crackdown on anti-government protesters in Bangkok three years ago was shot by a high-velocity bullet like those issued to soldiers, a judge said Wednesday.

It was likely Polenghi was killed by a bullet from the .223 cartridge which was used with M-16 and HK33 rifles issued to soldiers on the ground that day, the inquest said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/thai-inquest-finds-army-bullet-killed-italian-photographer-during-2010-political-unrest/2013/05/29/a8647e4c-c821-11e2-9cd9-3b9a22a4000a_story.html

The .223 is commonly known as the 5.56 nato round it always astounds me how the papers get it wrong here.

And they legging it into " nearly empty road to investigate a commotion among protesters approximately 30 to 40 meters away"

Maybe the commotion was the reason they were shot! I do not know about Bradley but Fabio was wearing a black t-shirt and combat trousers and was wearing a Rucksack.. He was wearing a light blue motorcycle helmet with Press in 3" yellow vinyl letters on the back and visor and a face mask. i will not post a picture you can google it.

In the heat of the moment.. not so easy do see who is what.. but certainly dressed like that he would look like any other protester.. or like a black shirt.

I am not taking anything away from a terrible event it should not have happened. I believe Commanders on the ground should be liable amongst others.

[thaicbr]

And these guys should accept liability. They could have ended it days before.. then no bloodshed.

[philw]

Really! Why?

Thaksin was the reason the reds were there.

Thaksin was the reason the reds didn't honour the agreement made. A phone call at the 11th hour from Thaksin.

Thaksins minions on stage are the ones that stoked up the crowd to fever pitch.

Thaksins watermelon police did nothing in the beginning to restrict the rally.

So yes Thaksin and the red leaders are also responsible for what happened as are Abhisit and Suthep. Stupid decisions were made. Lack of training and command at army level compounded those decisions.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Plus, this man KNEW he was taking a life threatening risk for the pictures. I may pity his mom or family, but not him. He jumped into the fire on his own free will, knowing damn well....

Presumably you don't want any news and have no respect for journalists who risk their lives to inform the public.

Let's all sit in the dark and play with our appendages whilst the bad guys do whatever they want without fear of exposure.

It's a bit wet but more comfortable that way.........................

Edited May 31, 2013 by philw

[Robby nz]

Inquest finds Thai army bullet killed Italian photographer during 2010 political unrest

By Associated Press, Published: May 29

BANGKOK — An Italian photographer killed while covering the Thai military’s crackdown on anti-government protesters in Bangkok three years ago was shot by a high-velocity bullet like those issued to soldiers, a judge said Wednesday.

It was likely Polenghi was killed by a bullet from the .223 cartridge which was used with M-16 and HK33 rifles issued to soldiers on the ground that day, the inquest said.

http://www.washingto...000a_story.html

Your own quote shows up the absolute crap in what you write.

Read it yourself : high-velocity bullet like those issued to soldiers'

Did you see like? and

It was likely Polenghi was killed by a bullet from the .223 cartridge which was used with M-16 and HK33 rifles issued to soldiers on the ground that day, the inquest said.

Likely

And you have twisted that into murder and that he was being targeted specifically.

It is also well documented that the armed faction of the red shirts also had army issue weapons.

They even showed them off on the stage.

Yes it is likely he was shot by a soldier who was being shot at by the armed reds, a soldier who was doing his duty defending his country.

Thaksin is the one responsible for all the death, injuries and destruction as he was the one who promoted and funded the riots,

The Government of the day was only doing what they were forced to do to remove the armed rioters from the streets.

Forced by the rioters and their brave leaders who promised to fight to the last drop of blood then couldn't get their hands in the air quick enough in case it became their blood. That is the ones who didn't run away.

[philw]

If I remember reading, this occurred the beginning of the push, and reading the reports there was initially gunfire from both sides and then a lull for several minutes.

Then the two reporters made a run for it. Twitchy soldiers making a show of force at the beginning of the push seeing people legging it down the road towards the red lines.

I bet the shots were taken instinctively without even bothering to check if these guys were press or not.

Not quite right, an eyewitness account from Bradley Cox who was with Fabio Polenghi at the time

>Bradley, said both he and Fabio had taken footage of a protester shot in the leg around 10:45 a.m. About 15 minutes later, Bradley said, sensing a lull in the shooting, he moved away from a barricade controlled by the UDD and into a nearly empty road to investigate a commotion among protesters approximately 30 to 40 meters away. Bradley said Fabio followed a few steps behind. While they both ran down the road, Bradley said he felt a sudden, sharp pain in the side of his leg. It turned out that a bullet had grazed his knee, causing a minor injury. When he turned to look back in the direction of the troops, he saw Fabio sprawled on the ground about two or three meters behind him.

Fabio was wearing a blue helmet with the word “Press” written across the front and back, and a green armband indicating that he was a working journalist.

“My feeling at the time was that we were shot at the exact same time, perhaps even with the same gun,” said Bradley, adding that he didn’t hear the gunshot or shots that hit him or Fabio. “I don’t know who shot me or Fabio, but if the military was trying to shoot red shirts, there was no one around us. …Soldiers were firing at anything or anybody.”

As I said both guys are running away from the Army, they do not constitute a threat to the army, Why did the soldiers shoot at them? It doesn't matter whether they were journalists or protesters or ambulance workers - they were running away and were not a threat. Even by the revised ROE there is no excuse for what happened.

Spot on......................

[Noistar]

I thought the cause of the deaths was the verbal intentions of the Red Shirts, and the supposed implementation of their threats.

No Red Shirts, no hatred stirring, no conflict. But as usual, it's the victims (innocent non-reds) who come off worse.

Grow up, accept responsibility. Fat chance.

[Robby nz]

if the military was trying to shoot red shirts, there was no one around us. …Soldiers were firing at anything or anybody.”

As I said both guys are running away from the Army, they do not constitute a threat to the army, Why did the soldiers shoot at them? It doesn't matter whether they were journalists or protesters or ambulance workers - they were running away and were not a threat. Even by the revised ROE there is no excuse for what happened.

By his own words there were reds within 30 or 40 m of them is that not quite close around them?

They would also have been behind them at the barricades.

If the army had been shooting at anything and anybody why werent the reds obviously within plain sight of the army dead?

As has been stated over and over the men in black who had been shooting at the army would have been an obvious target, the reporter shot was wearing black, running away and carrying what could have been mistaken for a weapon.

That would have made him a target for he could have easily been mistaken for one of the men in black who had been shooting at the army.

The fact that he had press written on his helmet would not even have been seen from a distance.

It is very unfortunate that he was a casualty but to try to make it into murder is absolute stupidity.

[thaicbr]

If I remember reading, this occurred the beginning of the push, and reading the reports there was initially gunfire from both sides and then a lull for several minutes.

Then the two reporters made a run for it. Twitchy soldiers making a show of force at the beginning of the push seeing people legging it down the road towards the red lines.

I bet the shots were taken instinctively without even bothering to check if these guys were press or not.

Not quite right, an eyewitness account from Bradley Cox who was with Fabio Polenghi at the time

>Bradley, said both he and Fabio had taken footage of a protester shot in the leg around 10:45 a.m. About 15 minutes later, Bradley said, sensing a lull in the shooting, he moved away from a barricade controlled by the UDD and into a nearly empty road to investigate a commotion among protesters approximately 30 to 40 meters away. Bradley said Fabio followed a few steps behind. While they both ran down the road, Bradley said he felt a sudden, sharp pain in the side of his leg. It turned out that a bullet had grazed his knee, causing a minor injury. When he turned to look back in the direction of the troops, he saw Fabio sprawled on the ground about two or three meters behind him.

Fabio was wearing a blue helmet with the word “Press” written across the front and back, and a green armband indicating that he was a working journalist.

“My feeling at the time was that we were shot at the exact same time, perhaps even with the same gun,” said Bradley, adding that he didn’t hear the gunshot or shots that hit him or Fabio. “I don’t know who shot me or Fabio, but if the military was trying to shoot red shirts, there was no one around us. …Soldiers were firing at anything or anybody.”<

/span>

As I said both guys are running away from the Army, they do not constitute a threat to the army, Why did the soldiers shoot at them? It doesn't matter whether they were journalists or protesters or ambulance workers - they were running away and were not a threat. Even by the revised ROE there is no excuse for what happened.

Spot on......................

Actually i do not believe anywhere in the write up its says they were running AWAY from the army.. It does seem to imply that they were running from one hotspot which had cooled over to another potential hotspot, both RED shirt.

[Thai at Heart]

If I remember reading, this occurred the beginning of the push, and reading the reports there was initially gunfire from both sides and then a lull for several minutes.

Then the two reporters made a run for it. Twitchy soldiers making a show of force at the beginning of the push seeing people legging it down the road towards the red lines.

I bet the shots were taken instinctively without even bothering to check if these guys were press or not.

Not quite right, an eyewitness account from Bradley Cox who was with Fabio Polenghi at the time

Bradley, said both he and Fabio had taken footage of a protester shot in the leg around 10:45 a.m. About 15 minutes later, Bradley said, sensing a lull in the shooting, he moved away from a barricade controlled by the UDD and into a nearly empty road to investigate a commotion among protesters approximately 30 to 40 meters away. Bradley said Fabio followed a few steps behind. While they both ran down the road, Bradley said he felt a sudden, sharp pain in the side of his leg. It turned out that a bullet had grazed his knee, causing a minor injury. When he turned to look back in the direction of the troops, he saw Fabio sprawled on the ground about two or three meters behind him.

Fabio was wearing a blue helmet with the word Press written across the front and back, and a green armband indicating that he was a working journalist.

My feeling at the time was that we were shot at the exact same time, perhaps even with the same gun, said Bradley, adding that he didnt hear the gunshot or shots that hit him or Fabio. I dont know who shot me or Fabio, but if the military was trying to shoot red shirts, there was no one around us. Soldiers were firing at anything or anybody.

As I said both guys are running away from the Army, they do not constitute a threat to the army, Why did the soldiers shoot at them? It doesn't matter whether they were journalists or protesters or ambulance workers - they were running away and were not a threat. Even by the revised ROE there is no excuse for what happened.

In a normal situation, they would not have been shot. There were hundreds of reds behind barricades, army sine distance away shooting at and around them to control the crowd.

Stuff goes quiet and probably from 40 or 50 ms distance, 2 blokes one in a black t shirt and khakis, and mask make a break for it.

From the soldiers perspective they could be planting something, doing something, whatever.

I have a feeling if they had just say tight instead of running to take pictures they wouldn't have got caught up in this. The soldiers at best screwed up, at worst targeted these guys.

Is it feasible for an environment like that to be 100% safe for journalists? No way. And surely they knew that often the authorities don't want journalists around when this stuff goes on.

Maybe they were deliberately targeted. Maybe some 19 year old holding an m16 in an urban warfare situation for the first time, crapped himself and shot anything, maybe they were ordered to shoot at journalists?

No one will ever know.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[kimamey]

As much as I feel sorry for the death of her brother it seems she is getting a lot of media publicity. I guess the other people who lost loved ones just don't rate.

So what if she is receiving a lot of publicity - why would you have a problem with that? I guess had your brother/sister/mother/father been murdered you would simply shrug your shoulders and keep keep stuffing burgers down your throat, preferring to not make a fuss as you wouldn't want to stand out from the crowd of murder victims.

Respect for this woman - she is an example as to how the other victims should be vocal

I would have made sure they got to the truth of it and not simply what the ptp/red shirts/thaksin were pushing for their own benefit. Looks like she is prepared to work with the ones that likely were the cause of the death rather than look for the truth.

She has the truth. What she is saying is do not let the perpetrators get away with it. Seems perfectly reasonable. Her brother was illegally killed by the military as the Courts verdict shows - she is asking the MP's not to pass an amnesty bill that absolves the military (and by extension Abhisit and Suthep as the ones responsible for signing the ROE/s).

You're partly right and I think there are a lot of people who want to see justice done. Whether they'll agree with whatever verdict is given remains to be seen.

The verdict said it was likely that Fabio was killed by a soldier. It didn't as far as I know address the legality of the killing. Although it may seem straightforward I don't believe it is. The protesters had been ordered to disperse so any that stayed were breaking the emergency laws but I don't know the status of journalists. You seem to suggest that Abhisit and Suthep are responsible as they signed the rules of engagement but if whoever fired the shot wasn't following those ROIs then their signing wouldn't then be justification for the killing. I think it's highly unlikely that killing of unarmed members of the press who were posing no danger was included in the ROIs

I think you're right about not having an amnesty but there really needs to be a fair legal process undertaken regarding this. I'm not sure this is possible in Thailand at this time but we will just have to hope.

[amore]

I don't know why they bother with Inquests. There's seemingly 10 or 20 people posting here who know more about what happened than the eyewitnesses and the Judge and presumably have thoroughly researched each and every situation via the learned court of The Nation "newspaper".

How supposedly educated westerners could make such earnest apologies for a military that was out of control and actively encouraged through the supplied ROE and built in amnesty of the Emergency Decree to shoot civilians, with a known past history of outrages against their fellow citizens is beyond me. Really, you're welcome to it.

[thaicbr]

I don't know why they bother with Inquests. There's seemingly 10 or 20 people posting here who know more about what happened than the eyewitnesses and the Judge and presumably have thoroughly researched each and every situation via the learned court of The Nation "newspaper".

How supposedly educated westerners could make such earnest apologies for a military that was out of control and actively encouraged through the supplied ROE and built in amnesty of the Emergency Decree to shoot civilians, with a known past history of outrages against their fellow citizens is beyond me. Really, you're welcome to it.

We are discussing the many reports from varied sources to try and and understand what happened in those days. You conveniently miss the points discussed.

It would seem that you yourself know exactly what happened..Please enlighten us!

[Noistar]

As with earlier posters, I am of the opinion that Thailand is not ready for an impartial investigation of these important events. A while ago there were reports of government supporters suddenly having total recall of events.

Any political conclusions to the legal process will, IMO, just lead to further unrest. The situation is not black and white, despite the government supporters' claims.

Hence the whitewash bill, which unfortunately (for the government supporters), the 'guilty' do not want to avail themselves of. They seem to be showing a non-Thai integrity to take responsibility for their actions and be judged accordingly.

Put Thailand's future on hold while we reset the fuse please.

[kimamey]

I don't know why they bother with Inquests. There's seemingly 10 or 20 people posting here who know more about what happened than the eyewitnesses and the Judge and presumably have thoroughly researched each and every situation via the learned court of The Nation "newspaper".

How supposedly educated westerners could make such earnest apologies for a military that was out of control and actively encouraged through the supplied ROE and built in amnesty of the Emergency Decree to shoot civilians, with a known past history of outrages against their fellow citizens is beyond me. Really, you're welcome to it.

You seem to have missed my comment immediately before yours. I partly agreed with you but pointed out some assumptions that you made which don't seem to be entirely accurate. I also notice you assume that all the information has come from The Nation although some have mentioned other sources however there does seem to be a lack of links but then it's not always easy to find old stories. There does seem to be some evidence that points to others than the military in the area at the time although I've not seen this for myself.

I notice that although the shots were fired apparently by the military there has been no push to hold the military responsible by the authorities. This seems to be more of a get Abhisit and Suthep operation to me.

I wish I could see an English translation of the ROIs.