Foreigners And Thais Nothing In Common We Can Relate To, To Talk About

[StreetCowboy]

 

...

There are people here saying that all Thais are incapable of critical thought, I say that's a falsehood and racist.

Oy vey! IF anyone actually said that in those words, I would agree with you. That would be racist. I still think you are playing a twisty turny game and the gist of thread is NOT racist.

 

If you had been to as good a school as I had, and spent your time talking about politics instead of food, then you would realise that people do not need to say things explicitly in as many words to convey the meaning. And also, that quite often people say things unconsciously, betraying opinions and prejudices of which they may themselves be unaware.

And Kitsune, don't get JT started on matters of race, and whether one is racist or not in criticising an education system. Race does not need to focus solely on skin colour, and does not even need to exist for people to exhibit racism.

SC

[SinglePot]

Schadenfreude. Mudita. The Price of Fish.

We are social animals.

Can we please stop beating the sh** out of each other.

[Kitsune]

 

...

There are people here saying that all Thais are incapable of critical thought, I say that's a falsehood and racist.

Oy vey! IF anyone actually said that in those words, I would agree with you. That would be racist. I still think you are playing a twisty turny game and the gist of thread is NOT racist.

 

If you had been to as good a school as I had, and spent your time talking about politics instead of food, then you would realise that people do not need to say things explicitly in as many words to convey the meaning. And also, that quite often people say things unconsciously, betraying opinions and prejudices of which they may themselves be unaware.

And Kitsune, don't get JT started on matters of race, and whether one is racist or not in criticising an education system. Race does not need to focus solely on skin colour, and does not even need to exist for people to exhibit racism.

SC

I am not criticizing an education system, I saying this system does not believe in teaching his population to hold its own thoughts

But as said previously I can't wait to meet these wonderful friends of yours who can debate about Obama's position in Syria while sipping YaNang.

I am focusing on trying to defend a population who is denied the right to decent information and original thinking, that's progressism, the opposite of racism

Edited June 10, 2013 by Kitsune

[nickmanchester2]

These are personal accounts.
Once these issues are solved, what do you talk about?
Thai people have limited access to the world news, politic, culture, current affairs etc, simply because they don't learn to have an interest in those

To be put it another way, those things are not VALUED in this culture.

Correct the only things which are valued are money, face and Thailand

How about family?......is that not important in Thailand?

Not as much as most foreigners imagine.
Many of the women have the urge to take care of their mothers.
Their children seems to be another matter entirely.

I find generally self-interest comes first.

yep, ship the kids off quick sharp

[SinglePot]

You are easily amused Kitsune.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

...... The fact that "TB" has some conversationally adept dinner mates is just anecdotal. .....

"claims to have"

[AnotherOneAmerican]

No it's not an extreme twist........we're in a debate here where some people believe that Thais are incapable of critical thought. It's a pathetic contention.

No we're not. You're trying to make this into that kind of debate. You're trying to accuse people who want to make observations about the differences in CULTURES of being racists. That's an extreme twist, on STEROIDS.

Not it's not......I know Thais who are very capable of critical thought, I'll defend them till my hearts content.

There are people here saying that all Thais are incapable of critical thought, I say that's a falsehood and racist.

I would modify the statement into "almost all Thais that attended Thai state schools are incapable of critical thought".

Clearly those (like me) educated in other countries are capable of critical thought, and some also slip through the state system unscathed.

The whole concept of Thai state school is to produce unquestioning and obedient drones for the powerful elite to easily control and manipulate.

[SinglePot]

No it's not an extreme twist........we're in a debate here where some people believe that Thais are incapable of critical thought. It's a pathetic contention.

No we're not. You're trying to make this into that kind of debate. You're trying to accuse people who want to make observations about the differences in CULTURES of being racists. That's an extreme twist, on STEROIDS.

Not it's not......I know Thais who are very capable of critical thought, I'll defend them till my hearts content.

There are people here saying that all Thais are incapable of critical thought, I say that's a falsehood and racist.

I would modify the statement into "almost all Thais that attended Thai state schools are incapable of critical thought".

Clearly those (like me) educated in other countries are capable of critical thought, and some also slip through the state system unscathed.

The whole concept of Thai state school is to produce unquestioning and obedient drones for the powerful elite to easily control and manipulate.

Ever lived in China?

[Scully]

Personally I have a very good Thai friend whose parents were from Vietnam and he calls himself, in a joking fashion a farrang. We meet for a couple of beers twice a week and he talks about Thai politics, religion ,news etc etc for example the farrari driving cop killer was a subject he brought up and I value his opinion but we sometimes disagree as all people do. We still stay friends though even after heated debates.

The man is retired he owns two hardware stores run by his son's and alway's insists on buying the beer.

I mention this because he never asks me for anything only friendship, he speaks some English and I speak some Thai so we can communicate well.

He's not well educated but self educated in the way the world works, he loves reading and watching English language world news (his words).

He's a mate, when a pretty girl walks by we stop talking, smile at her, we smile at each other and "say what were we talking about". Just like mates the world over.

Yes he's a farang, his education might have been compensated by his Vietnamese parents.

He was born in Thailand, his parents were Vietnamese, my parents are Scottish but I am definately English as I was born there ( I am sorry to say )

So, you are saying his parents did not take any part in his education ?

I think you should read up on education in Vietnam 65 years ago when he was born, it's not even that great now.

He is Thai and a nice bloke, why do you find it so hard to believe this?. There are many nice Thai's and many Thai's I wouldn't like to get to know, you live in the same country and you have nothing in common?. I suggest you try a bit harder to find someone out of the 65 million to get friendly with.

[Kitsune]

No it's not an extreme twist........we're in a debate here where some people believe that Thais are incapable of critical thought. It's a pathetic contention.

No we're not. You're trying to make this into that kind of debate. You're trying to accuse people who want to make observations about the differences in CULTURES of being racists. That's an extreme twist, on STEROIDS.

Not it's not......I know Thais who are very capable of critical thought, I'll defend them till my hearts content.

There are people here saying that all Thais are incapable of critical thought, I say that's a falsehood and racist.

I would modify the statement into "almost all Thais that attended Thai state schools are incapable of critical thought".

Clearly those (like me) educated in other countries are capable of critical thought, and some also slip through the state system unscathed.

The whole concept of Thai state school is to produce unquestioning and obedient drones for the powerful elite to easily control and manipulate.

Yes!

As Amy would have said I "liked" you comment, but wanted to like it 4 times !

You are Thai you went through a different education system

You realize you escaped a system producing "unquestioning and obedient drones for the powerful elite to easily control and manipulate"

Thank you very much

Could not have said it better

Edited June 10, 2013 by Kitsune

[Kitsune]

I think you should read up on education in Vietnam 65 years ago when he was born, it's not even that great now.

He is Thai and a nice bloke, why do you find it so hard to believe this?. There are many nice Thai's and many Thai's I wouldn't like to get to know, you live in the same country and you have nothing in common?. I suggest you try a bit harder to find someone out of the 65 million to get friendly with.

It's not about great or not great education, it's about teaching or even allowing its population to think for oneself.

And it's not about nice or not nice. I would never dream of saying such things as this nationality is not "nice", it's just plain stupid.

I know alot of nice Thai people.... it does not mean we can share views on global current affairs.

I can talk to my neighbor about gardening, the lottery, her health, her dogs, Thai cooking, etc, etc, she is very NICE but I would not ask her opinion on Bachar El Assad.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Kitsune

[SinglePot]

...... The fact that "TB" has some conversationally adept dinner mates is just anecdotal. .....

"claims to have"

If I am welcome at his dinner table he can have me anytime.

But I'm not going to sit on a dinner table with people who have some pretty fundamental criticisms of Thailand, and their yes men.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

...... The fact that "TB" has some conversationally adept dinner mates is just anecdotal. .....

"claims to have"

If I am welcome at his dinner table he can have me anytime.

But I'm not going to sit on a dinner table with people who have some pretty fundamental criticisms of Thailand, and their yes men.

There are many poor people who will endure anything for the sake of a free meal.

Edited June 10, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[David48]

Schadenfreude. Mudita. The Price of Fish.

We are social animals.

Can we please stop beating the sh** out of each other.

WOW ... I'll have to don my flack jacket before I weigh into this.

Glad you mentioned the Fish ... Fish Farmers ... salt of the Earth people they are.

My other half is a Thai University educated Thai ... and a Fish Farmer.

Could probably debate the pants off you lot ... but chooses not to.

She relies on tact and guile to navigate what are sometimes tricky social situations.

To do that successfully it takes both a generous dollop of both social and intellectual skills.

Just as a word to the wise here also ... choose carefully what you consider topics worthy of discussion to prove critical thinking ... American (USA) worldly concerns may have little relevance in Thailand. To have that opinion is really a Western centric view of the globe.

.

[SinglePot]

Glad you mentioned the flak jacket D48, this is not a debate.

[SinglePot]

...... The fact that "TB" has some conversationally adept dinner mates is just anecdotal. .....

"claims to have"

If I am welcome at his dinner table he can have me anytime.

But I'm not going to sit on a dinner table with people who have some pretty fundamental criticisms of Thailand, and their yes men.

There are many poor people who will endure anything for the sake of a free meal.

Sir, Yes Sir!

Message understood AoA.

[ABCer]

Stop this mutual bashing!

Nobody on this site is racist. Nowhere did I see ALL THAI! Non- critical thinking is feature of MOST Thais, but not ALL of them. Besides, it is not because they are "little brownies" or we are "big whities". Whoever brought this in is playing crap cards, trying to turn this discussion racist. It is year 2,556 and for about this long all Thais were not encouraged to think critically - ALL of them, including their Nobility and Elite, not mentioning middle classes and broad population.

It is a lovely country. We all are here by choice. Many are married. I repeat, there are no racists here. For 2,500 years their social structure, their religion, their culture, their customs and traditions were discouraging critical thinking.

Does this mean Thais are incapable of it? Definitely not. Will this situation change? It looks like it is. Will Thais be happier when this will change? I'm not sure...

By the way, critical thinking and intelligence are not education, both of them have nothing to do with making money and business acumen. Too many self-made millionaires are uneducated. Too many educated people cannot think critically and there is a lot of intelligent people among uneducated.

Thank you all.

N.B. Speaking of religions - none of them encourage criticism, ever!

Edited June 10, 2013 by ABCer

[SinglePot]

Forget It ABCer.

My request earlier today went unheeded and eventually ended up in clever dick remarks from AnotherOneAmerican.

I take exception to these 2 statements from Kitsune and AnotherOneAmerican:

'...the only things which are valued are money, face and Thailand.'

How about family?......is that not important in Thailand?

'Not as much as most foreigners imagine. Many of the women have the urge to take care of their mothers.Their children seems to be another matter entirely. I find generally self-interest comes first.'

Both of these statements suggest an unhealthy attitude towards Thailand which I personally think needs to be challenged.

I am also not impressed by the provocation and bullying of TheBlether regarding his mealtime conversations with intelligent decent people.

The issue of Thai education and the ability of Thai people to think critically is another matter. Possibly a diversionary tactic founded on unhealthy attitudes towards Thai? I don't know.

I see some pretty critical thinking from educated foreigners on this thread.

And I don't like it.

Good evening.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Forget It ABCer.

My request earlier today went unheeded and eventually ended up in clever dick remarks from AnotherOneAmerican.

I take exception to these 2 statements from Kitsune and AnotherOneAmerican:

'...the only things which are valued are money, face and Thailand.'

How about family?......is that not important in Thailand?

'Not as much as most foreigners imagine. Many of the women have the urge to take care of their mothers.Their children seems to be another matter entirely. I find generally self-interest comes first.'

Both of these statements suggest an unhealthy attitude towards Thailand which I personally think needs to be challenged.

I am also not impressed by the provocation and bullying of TheBlether regarding his mealtime conversations with intelligent decent people.

The issue of Thai education and the ability of Thai people to think critically is another matter. Possibly a diversionary tactic founded on unhealthy attitudes towards Thai? I don't know.

I see some pretty critical thinking from educated foreigners on this thread.

And I don't like it.

Good evening.

^^^ ^^^

FunFon or Candypants??

[amykat]

Obviously in a large population there is going to be diversity and there are going to be OUTLIERS. The fact that "TB" has some conversationally adept dinner mates is just anecdotal. Nobody is suggesting any people isn't capable of any thing any other people is capable of. That would be racist to assert that. The question I see here is one of CULTURE. Cultures DO vary. Different cultures value different things. I grew up in a culture that perhaps irrationally highly valued novelists. Thailand is not such a culture. It's not racist at all to make that observation about Thailand.

This is definitely a post that deserves multiple LIKES!! I would like to "LIKE" even more comments on this thread, but I, for the first time ever, ran out of likes yesterday and couldn't give any. I'm worried about running out again today.

I think people are getting confused about talking about certain topics, and having different cultural views to these topics. Mostly, Thais will not say anything negative about many issues. They will come up with lies, stories, reasons to explain away things, but rarely will directly criticize. Many Western people, think a critical analysis, isn't necessarily negative, (and it isn't, the key word is analysis) but must be included, as a sign of intelligent thought/discussion. Some Western cultures value this more than others. Sometimes, this might be based on your education, like what exactly you studied in university. Just asking the question "WHY" seems anti-Thai, and we all know it is the number one topic on TV. WHY would that be?

[benalibina]

Critical thinking and education not only takes place at the schools but primarily at the house with parents. In thailand most parents leave all to the schools to educate them, manners as well. Many parents themselves are still poorly educated so a thai kid will not get the critical thought almost anywhere ( only internet ??). The system of respect and not question the elders is not helpfull. Thais have a good sense of LOGIC if 1 can explain it to them. It will take many generations before an educationsystem will be changed. Unfortunately thai, conservative, culture prevents speeding up this process.

I hope that this is not perceived as a RACIST comment !! If so, then it is just my opinion.

Kapom.

[SinglePot]

Forget It ABCer.

My request earlier today went unheeded and eventually ended up in clever dick remarks from AnotherOneAmerican.

I take exception to these 2 statements from Kitsune and AnotherOneAmerican:

'...the only things which are valued are money, face and Thailand.'

How about family?......is that not important in Thailand?

'Not as much as most foreigners imagine. Many of the women have the urge to take care of their mothers.Their children seems to be another matter entirely. I find generally self-interest comes first.'

Both of these statements suggest an unhealthy attitude towards Thailand which I personally think needs to be challenged.

I am also not impressed by the provocation and bullying of TheBlether regarding his mealtime conversations with intelligent decent people.

The issue of Thai education and the ability of Thai people to think critically is another matter. Possibly a diversionary tactic founded on unhealthy attitudes towards Thai? I don't know.

I see some pretty critical thinking from educated foreigners on this thread.

And I don't like it.

Good evening.

^^^ ^^^

FunFon or Candypants??

Fullmetaljacket

[StreetCowboy]

Personally, I think that the whole topic is racist, and grossly simplistic.

I don't really see how anyone could be stupid enough to extrapolate from his own experience and generalise to all foreigners. All because the OP doesn't like talking about food.

Several posters early on in the thread suggested alternative topics that they've found popular - my suggestion would be talk about your children, and the children of the person you're talking to - unless they come from one of these "Do you know who my father is" homes...

SC

[Scully]

It's not about great or not great education, it's about teaching or even allowing its population to think for oneself.

I think you should read up on education in Vietnam 65 years ago when he was born, it's not even that great now.

He is Thai and a nice bloke, why do you find it so hard to believe this?. There are many nice Thai's and many Thai's I wouldn't like to get to know, you live in the same country and you have nothing in common?. I suggest you try a bit harder to find someone out of the 65 million to get friendly with.

And it's not about nice or not nice. I would never dream of saying such things as this nationality is not "nice", it's just plain stupid.

I know alot of nice Thai people.... it does not mean we can share views on global current affairs.

I can talk to my neighbor about gardening, the lottery, her health, her dogs, Thai cooking, etc, etc, she is very NICE but I would not ask her opinion on Bachar El Assad.

Back in the West you talk to your neighbours about the weather, gardening etc etc, they are people who you just happen to live near. Once you have a solid friendship with a Thai you will get to know their real opinions, they do have views on more than whats in your stereotypical thinking.

[amykat]

Okay StreetCowboy, I understand what you are saying basically. But this isn't about "can we converse about something, anything ..." we all can, I am sure.

When I went one day to a regular restaurant I visited often, I found out a 20-21 year old waitress had died the night before due to a fluke medical event, that happens from time to time. Not an accident or anything she could be blamed for. I was appalled to hear everyone talking about her, like she was some shit on their shoe, because now that she had DIED at a young age, everyone decided, she DESERVED to die, due to her karma, therefore she must be a bad person, and deserved now, everyone's scorn!

I was seriously distressed by this. On the other hand, when somebody gets a new car/motorbike, has a blessing ceremony, gets crazily drunk to celebrate, drives with no lights and no helmet or seatbelt/aribags, and then crashes and dies on the way home, and I SAY, it was really stupid to let him drive so drunk and suggest this might be a lesson for others, people look like they will faint in shock at my analysis! They can't believe it, anymore than I believe their story, that a bad ghost caused the accident.

I could give you a list of 100s of events, like this, in my anecdotal life here in Thailand. These are the times one decides that we have nothing in common with Thais, in general, for the most part, not ALL, etc.

This is the part of life that "theblether" is missing. I could also list 1000 things he is missing because he hasn't tried to accomplish certain things here, in his part-time tourist life. And he probably THINKS he is getting along so well with everyone here, because THAI people make you feel that way, by telling lies, and agreeing with everything you say ..at least at his point here. I would suggest, as a test of course, for him to open a business here, get married, have kids, build a house, invest money with his new friends, and see what differences come up, if any??

[SinglePot]

Can I make a request please for an appreciation of the fact that we are not in the USA?

[StreetCowboy]

Okay StreetCowboy, I understand what you are saying basically. But this isn't about "can we converse about something, anything ..." we all can, I am sure.

When I went one day to a regular restaurant I visited often, I found out a 20-21 year old waitress had died the night before due to a fluke medical event, that happens from time to time. Not an accident or anything she could be blamed for. I was appalled to hear everyone talking about her, like she was some shit on their shoe, because now that she had DIED at a young age, everyone decided, she DESERVED to die, due to her karma, therefore she must be a bad person, and deserved now, everyone's scorn!

I was seriously distressed by this. On the other hand, when somebody gets a new car/motorbike, has a blessing ceremony, gets crazily drunk to celebrate, drives with no lights and no helmet or seatbelt/aribags, and then crashes and dies on the way home, and I SAY, it was really stupid to let him drive so drunk and suggest this might be a lesson for others, people look like they will faint in shock at my analysis! They can't believe it, anymore than I believe their story, that a bad ghost caused the accident.

I could give you a list of 100s of events, like this, in my anecdotal life here in Thailand. These are the times one decides that we have nothing in common with Thais, in general, for the most part, not ALL, etc.

This is the part of life that "theblether" is missing. I could also list 1000 things he is missing because he hasn't tried to accomplish certain things here, in his part-time tourist life. And he probably THINKS he is getting along so well with everyone here, because THAI people make you feel that way, by telling lies, and agreeing with everything you say ..at least at his point here. I would suggest, as a test of course, for him to open a business here, get married, have kids, build a house, invest money with his new friends, and see what differences come up, if any??

So what makes you think I'm like you, and not like a Thai? There are differences between foreigners, you can't just lump us all together and say "we're dfferent from them, so we can't get on well with them"; some of us are able to hold a conversation with people even if they believe in ghosts or Scottish independence or whatever irrelevant nonsense.

SC

[maxme]

Can I make a request please for an appreciation of the fact that we are not in the USA?

And by that you mean...

[benalibina]

You could state as well; WE CARE therefore we exchange opinions ! We cannot change where we come from. We can change however where we live. HERE for many. A caring parent sees the good and bad things of their own upbringing when he becomes a parent. My opinion about thailand was broadened when my kids went to school here at early age. I was not pleasantly surprised however.

Had many arguments with my, still to be, wife about it. Kids of 3 year doing homework ! Sad. I learned them on a playfull way by asking questions and learning them to think for themselves. As example that they can distinct following; stupid or not so clever. All the accusations on this forum about racism are totally out of order. Remember; WE CARE !!!!!!!

[amykat]

Hi SC,

Well you might be just like Thai people, you might be a Thai person, I don't know much about you at all. If you think just like Thai people, than I would not consider you one of "us" as far as this conversation goes. If you are just like a Thai person, maybe you don't get along well, or like, many Western people. This discussion is about generalities, which will not, by definition, fit every individual.

I can bet, that if you put me in a room, with 1,000 people in Los Angeles, (who were born there) that I can't find even one person who would say that a ghost caused the above accident I described. I can bet if I was in a room with any amount of Thai people, some huge percentage, maybe all, depending on the demographics, would say the ghost, bad luck, bad blessing ceremony, something along those lines would be the reason given for the accident. His bed was located facing the wrong way, there are all sorts of similar answers.

If you think more like Thai people, than I can only guess you are very happy here and that is great for you!!