Royal Thai Air Force Museum

[rockyysdt]

When in Bangkok I found it a must to visit the Royal Thai Air Force Museum.

http://www.rtaf.mi.th/museum/INTRO-2.HTM#contact

I found the most economical way to get there was a BTS Skytrain ride to Mo Chit Station and then grab a cab (121 baht meter) downstairs and you're soon at the museum gate.

The place is filled with brilliant aircraft including examples you won't find anywhere else in the world.

My favorites include an F8F Bearcat, Sky Raider and F86 Sabre.

There's even a section where you can sit and watch video featuring historic war involvement of the Thai Air Force.

Entry is free.

Edited June 18, 2013 by rockyysdt

[rockyysdt]

This wrecked motor belonged to a Mustang P51D downed defending Don Meung Airport from WW2 Japanese air raid.

[impulse]

I'm a little puzzled by the engine from the P51 that defended Don Muang Airport from a Japanese Air Raid. The Japanese bombing in Thailand was limited to 1941, because Thailand signed an armistice with the Japanese late that year.

The P51 had its maiden flight in 1940, but was introduced into service in 1942.

Are they sure it wasn't shot down by the Japanese while IT was bombing Don Muang, or escorting Allied bombers that were bombing Don Muang, later on in the war?

I'm fascinated by WWII history, but find it's hard to get accurate info here in Asia (China and Thailand).

Thanks, BTW for the info. I love flight museums and did not know there was one in BKK.

[billd766]

How easy is it to get a taxi back again?

I will be down in BKK next month and I think I will take a trip there.

ex RAF

[rockyysdt]

I'm a little puzzled by the engine from the P51 that defended Don Muang Airport from a Japanese Air Raid. The Japanese bombing in Thailand was limited to 1941, because Thailand signed an armistice with the Japanese late that year.

The P51 had its maiden flight in 1940, but was introduced into service in 1942.

Are they sure it wasn't shot down by the Japanese while IT was bombing Don Muang, or escorting Allied bombers that were bombing Don Muang, later on in the war?

I'm fascinated by WWII history, but find it's hard to get accurate info here in Asia (China and Thailand).

Thanks, BTW for the info. I love flight museums and did not know there was one in BKK.

The scant information was written on the label in front of the engine.

The P51D was also a later development so I don't know the circumstance and timew line.

I watched three of the films available.

The first was Thai Air Force in WW2 & then Thai Air Force and then Korea.

The one involving WW2 was in Thai so I couldn't follow what actually happened other than I think they signed an armistice with the Japanese.

[rockyysdt]

How easy is it to get a taxi back again?

I will be down in BKK next month and I think I will take a trip there.

ex RAF

Just across the road there is a bus stop.

I stood there and flagged one of the many cabs using this road.

I instructed him to take me to Mo Chit station.

All cab drivers switch on their meter as opposed to airport scammers.

Only travel in a cab using the meter.

Combining rail and cab reduces cost and eliminates central Bangkok traffic snarls and toll fees.

Edited June 18, 2013 by rockyysdt

[rockyysdt]

How easy is it to get a taxi back again?

I will be down in BKK next month and I think I will take a trip there.

ex RAF

You'll be in for a treat.

There is a Firefly and a Spitfire.

Although website precludes cameras I was never challenged snapping in front of half a dozen staff.

[impulse]

I'd go if only to see the Spitfire.

Thanks for the good info!

[rockyysdt]

I'd go if only to see the Spitfire.

Thanks for the good info!

Although now all vintage, the Western powers used third world nations to dump their obsolete aircraft.

This has left places like Thailand a treasure trove of early aircraft.

The Thais don't throw anything out, preferring to maintain and repair.

The displays are set out allowing visitors to walk right up to them.

I also loved the Douglas Skyraider, Dakota C47, Tiger Moth, F84 Thunderjet, and a number of early helicopters. but the Bearcat was a beast.

There is even a bi plane designed and built in Thailand, the only one of its type in the world.

When Japan attacked Thailand the defenders were using Curtis Hawk 111's.

Completely outclassed they were eliminated early in the campaign.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_BF2C_Goshawk

It goes to show that operating national air forces with obsolete aircraft is pointless except for using against defenceless targets and civilians.

Edited June 18, 2013 by rockyysdt

[Baerboxer]

How easy is it to get a taxi back again?

I will be down in BKK next month and I think I will take a trip there.

ex RAF

Very easy - just come out of the main gates of the museum and you are on a main road that usually has plenty of taxis. The museum is located near RTAF air base, college etc and is easy to find.

If you're staying in central BKK go to Mo Chit BTS as it's cheap and quick into the centre.

It's a great place, lots of excellent aircraft and very friendly staff.

On your way back to Mo Chit there is the National Memorial museum which you might also want to take a look at if you have time.

[billd766]

How easy is it to get a taxi back again?

I will be down in BKK next month and I think I will take a trip there.

ex RAF

Just across the road there is a bus stop.

I stood there and flagged one of the many cabs using this road.

I instructed him to take me to Mo Chit station.

All cab drivers switch on their meter as opposed to airport scammers.

Only travel in a cab using the meter.

Combining rail and cab reduces cost and eliminates central Bangkok traffic snarls and toll fees.

Thank you for that information.

I will be staying in a hotel out on Sukhumvit 64 and plan to go to the UK Embassy for opening time to get a letter written for my pensions and then wondered what else to do and I have always wanted to visit the RTAF museum. That seems to be a good idea for me to combine both plans into the same day provided that I can get back to the embassy before 3 pm.

[rockyysdt]

Spitfire.

Edited June 19, 2013 by rockyysdt

[rockyysdt]

I'm a little puzzled by the engine from the P51 that defended Don Muang Airport from a Japanese Air Raid. The Japanese bombing in Thailand was limited to 1941, because Thailand signed an armistice with the Japanese late that year.

The P51 had its maiden flight in 1940, but was introduced into service in 1942.

My error.

I've learned Thailand became a reluctant ally with Japan.

Later they secretly assisted the Allies.

The P51 shot down would have been an American raider.

Quote:

The RAF and USAAF bomb raids put the RTAF in an awkward position. As the Air Force was engaged in transporting Allied secret agents to Don Muang, it also had to counter the Allied air raids. To suppress Japanese suspicions, the RTAF continued to try to intercept Allied bombers. As the Allied air supremacy grew even more, most airfields in Thailand were attacked by USAAF fighter-bombers. Even though the RTAF was secretly supporting the Allied cause, the Allied pilots had no way of distinguishing RTAF aircraft from Japanese operated aircraft. In one such raid, on April 7, 1945 , Don Muang was attacked by USAAF P-51 Mustangs. In this attack alone, the RTAF lost seven aircraft destroyed and seven personnel killed. During another raid on Don Muang two days later, two RTAF Ki-43s attempted to intercept about 40 USAAF P-51 Mustangs. Both Ki-43s were damaged, and the Thai pilots had to force land their Hayabusas. The strafing attack cost the RTAF yet another four aircraft, including one Ki-30. Several IJAAF aircraft were claimed as destroyed or damaged as well.

and

The Thai defences had been alerted to the raid, and scrambled five Ki-27bs from Foong Bin 16. After the Lightnings and Mustangs had completed their strafing run, the RTAF fighters were bounced by the US pilots. Although the Otas were more nimble than the P-38s and P-51s, they could not match the speed and arnament of the US fighters. During the rather one-sided melee, the Thais claimed one P-38 as shot down, but in turn lost all of their Ki-27bs. The five RTAF fighters split into two sections, with Pilot Officer Kamrop Bleangkam and Chief Warrant Officer Chuladit Detkanchorn attacking the Lightnings. P/O Kamrop claimed one P-38 before his own aircraft was badly hit, and he was forced to crash land. The P-38s shot down Chief W/O Chuladit as well. As the other three Thai pilots tried to fend off the P-51s, all of them were shot down. Flight Lieutenant Chalermkiats Ota was hit in the engine. He made a forced landing, after which his Ki-27b was strafed and destroyed by one of the Mustangs. Of the other two Thai pilots, Chief W/O Nat Thara Kaimuk crashed nine miles from Lampang, while Chief W/O Nat Sunthorn was the only Thai pilot killed. All the other Thai pilots were injured, though. The USAAF lost one aircraft, most probably the P-38 claimed by P/O Kamrop. According to Thai sources, three Mustangs were damaged during the dogfight, two of which crashed in northern Thailand and the last in the Shan states.

This confirms the presence of Mustangs in the area.

Edited June 19, 2013 by rockyysdt

[JusMe]

Rocky said: "I've learned Thailand became a reluctant ally with Japan.

Later they secretly assisted the Allies."

Beware Wikipedia. That alliance wasn't so reluctant until late enough in the war that it was clear Japan was going to lose. The "assistance" to the Allies was very limited, not much more than damage reports by Seri Thai about the bombing raids on the Bangkok ports. A few downed Allied pilots were "captured" by the Thai resistance, and transferred to Thai authority rather than to the Japanese p.o.w. camps.

[rockyysdt]

Rocky said: "I've learned Thailand became a reluctant ally with Japan.

Later they secretly assisted the Allies."

Beware Wikipedia. That alliance wasn't so reluctant until late enough in the war that it was clear Japan was going to lose. The "assistance" to the Allies was very limited, not much more than damage reports by Seri Thai about the bombing raids on the Bangkok ports. A few downed Allied pilots were "captured" by the Thai resistance, and transferred to Thai authority rather than to the Japanese p.o.w. camps.

Hi J.

Faced with the onslaught of the Japanese military machine, and armed with a few Curtis Goshawks, obsolete before they were even built, what would you have done?

They mounted an initial defence, but their machines were quickly destroyed.

Third world countries are dumping grounds for obsolete rubbish by companies seeking clear their inventories without loss.

The only use for such equipment is for use against civilian targets.

Edited June 20, 2013 by rockyysdt

[JusMe]

Faced with the onslaught of the Japanese military machine, and armed with a few Curtis Goshawks, obsolete before they were even built, what would you have done?

They mounted an initial defence, but their machines were quickly destroyed.

They could have done the same as Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, etc. They didn't - they saw an opportunity and became allies of the Japanese.

And they did not mount an initial defence and have their machines destroyed. There were a few hours of minor resistance from a few police patrols, assisted by a few military, but no real defence, until the order came from the Prime Minister to permit the transit of the Japanese forces, which had been agreed well before that time.

[rockyysdt]

Faced with the onslaught of the Japanese military machine, and armed with a few Curtis Goshawks, obsolete before they were even built, what would you have done?

They mounted an initial defence, but their machines were quickly destroyed.

They could have done the same as Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, etc. They didn't - they saw an opportunity and became allies of the Japanese.

And they did not mount an initial defence and have their machines destroyed. There were a few hours of minor resistance from a few police patrols, assisted by a few military, but no real defence, until the order came from the Prime Minister to permit the transit of the Japanese forces, which had been agreed well before that time.

Did you see what the Japanese did in China?

The Thais made a good move.

The Japanese mounted a multi pronged naval attacks, hitting six locations simultaneously.

They were supported with aircraft.

The attack mounted against Surat was defended by the Thai Air Force.

80% of the Thai aircraft were destroyed in a very short time.

They might as well have been armed with slingshots.

Edited June 21, 2013 by rockyysdt

[asiaexpat]

Thailand's history during WWII seems to vary based on who is providing the data, but it is certain that Thailand had military early contacts with Japan, and the fascist government of Thailand at that time put up little resistance when Japan launched their attack. Seri Thai conducted significant activities during the war and help OSS agents in Thailand, but made little difference in the outcome it seems. However, Thailand's Seri-Thai were a major factor in the US support of Thailand after the war. The UK and other countries wanted to severely punish Thailand, but US efforts minimized the punishment and became a major military supporter until after the VN war.

[JusMe]

The Thais made a good move.

The Japanese mounted a multi pronged naval attacks, hitting six locations simultaneously.

They were supported with aircraft.

The attack mounted against Surat was defended by the Thai Air Force.

80% of the Thai aircraft were destroyed in a very short time.

They might as well have been armed with slingshots.

The Thais made an opportunistic move. They not only made the agreement and friendship alliance with Japan, but surprised the Japanese by declaring war against the West.

There was no multi-pronged attack - there was an agreement for them to land and transit Thailand for their attacks on Malaya and Burma, as well as getting materiel support from Thailand.

And there was such little support for the landings that even the resistance in Songklha was small weapons - no bombardment, no artillery, no air attacks. The Japanese did not expect any resistance, and therefore weren't prepared for a major assault landing.

The air force defence was in Songkhla and mainly trainers.

As AsiaExpat said: " Seri Thai conducted significant activities during the war and help OSS agents in Thailand, but made little difference in the outcome it seems. However, Thailand's Seri-Thai were a major factor in the US support of Thailand after the war. The UK and other countries wanted to severely punish Thailand, but US efforts minimized the punishment and became a major military supporter until after the VN war."

Very true. Just how significant those activities were is a matter of debate, but they did provide some help to the OSS. After the war, again a matter of debate: the US did support Thailand's treaties of peace after the war, but that was mainly political anti-British colonialism and a desire to expand their own powers.

Edit - typos

Edited June 21, 2013 by JusMe

[rockyysdt]

Moving on to the 21st century, we have RTAF using F5 Freedom Fighters and Tigers.

These were rejected by USAAF as below par but used as bogies for training and for export to 3rd world countries.

It balanced Northrop's budget but if conflict comes, where will Thailand be again?

They are better of spending the money on public projects to improve their infrastructure and economy rather than making rich countries richer.

Edited June 22, 2013 by rockyysdt

[rockyysdt]

When it comes to jet aircraft l love the exhausts.

Here is a shot of the tail of an F5 parked at the museum.

Edited June 23, 2013 by rockyysdt