Russia's anti-gay laws have teeth -- gay priders assaulted

[Jingthing]

I wouldn't call him intellectuaI just because he hosted QI, he's a comdeic actor, look at Blackladder and his best mate Mr Bean.'Some of his politics I agree with especially Palestine, but he's an entertainer at the end of the day and will jump on any issue for press gay or straight.

And yes the hair is bad

I consider him an intellectual, among many other things. He's does LOTS of different things. A very admirable man indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OamQy8wc2XE

[ToddWeston]

I finally got a chance to watch the videos & read up on him without interruption. I judged too quickly, without knowing the facts.

Thanks for the insight.

[Dr Robert]

I like Stephen Fry-he is in my opinion a gifted intellect, has a great sense of humour and has overcome much personal adversity to inspire people, (gay and not gay). He is a poster boy for decency and human rights -has the heart of a lion. He does so much good at so many levels, how could you not admire him?

[LeCharivari]

I like Stephen Fry-he is in my opinion a gifted intellect, has a great sense of humour and has overcome much personal adversity to inspire people, (gay and not gay). He is a poster boy for decency and human rights -has the heart of a lion. He does so much good at so many levels, how could you not admire him?

I do admire him, but that doesn't mean he's always right or that he's always quite as "decent" as he appears or is 100% how he portrays himself - the eccentric upper class Englishman, styled after Jeeves and Wooster. He is a very good actor, after all. His "swings", as he calls them, for example over what should be done about Russia's anti-gay laws (to keep on topic!) are infamous and often 180°.

[onthemoon]

Just watched the first hour.

My major criticism of Fry is that he needs a style consultant. His haircut is a disgrace, and his clothing could be better.

Other than that, he is a hero.

The man has severe issues with bipolar disorder. He almost died during the African part of the trip in the doc by suicide. That is a MEDICAL condition. I think focusing on his dress and hair seems very petty. I really didn't notice. Maybe I'm not "gay" enough.

Agree, he's a brilliant man and a hero.

I had no idea about his medical condition, I just took (and take) him as a journalist. As an advocate for gay acceptance.

Presentation does count if you want results. Out there in the world, you don't get bonus points for medical conditions. Not that I'm not sympathetic, but the world isn't.

I hate to admit it, but I have to side with Jingthing (or at least his quoted view) here.

Stephen Fry is best known, apart from his acting and comedy roles, for his openness about his bipolar issues and his support for those others with a similar condition through his presidency of Mind. His work as an "advocate for gay acceptance" is, by comparison, relatively minor and hardly grounds for judging whether he is "brilliant and a hero" or not.

I also have to take issue with your view that "Presentation does count if you want results. Out there in the world, you don't get bonus points for medical conditions. Not that I'm not sympathetic, but the world isn't." I believe that "the world" may not be "sympathetic" and while it may not justify "bonus points" it does not and should not stop anyone being judged by "the world" on the merits of their ideas rather than their appearance - Stephen Hawking is an obvious example.

I just watched the second hour, and I stand by my opinion:

1. Stephen Fry is a hero in the worldwide fight for gay acceptance.

2. He needed a haircut (presentation does count), but then, he got a haircut some time in the second hour of the documentary.

He is not known to me for any bipolar issues, and he was brought up in this forum for the gay issues he stands for.

And don't kid yourself - Stephen Hawking is another league. <gd&r>

[onthemoon]

I like Stephen Fry-he is in my opinion a gifted intellect, has a great sense of humour and has overcome much personal adversity to inspire people, (gay and not gay). He is a poster boy for decency and human rights -has the heart of a lion. He does so much good at so many levels, how could you not admire him?

I do admire him, but that doesn't mean he's always right or that he's always quite as "decent" as he appears or is 100% how he portrays himself - the eccentric upper class Englishman, styled after Jeeves and Wooster. He is a very good actor, after all. His "swings", as he calls them, for example over what should be done about Russia's anti-gay laws (to keep on topic!) are infamous and often 180°.

A admire a lot of people, but I have never agreed 100% with everything they said. I think that's quite normal.

[Scott]

I know the anti-gay propaganda law in Russia and the Olympics has been discussed a lot, but for those that are interested this just came across the news feed in the World News Section:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/678138-putin-says-gays-welcome-at-sochi-olympics-despite-propaganda-law/#entry6979614

Here's a little excerpt from it:

Alexander Zhukov, the head of Russia's National Olympic Committee, told the RIA Novosti news agency at the time that gays will be able to take part in the event without any fears for their safety. "If a person does not put across his views in the presence of children, no measures against him can be taken," he said. But it is unclear if the law also applies to the public display of, for example, the rainbow flag that is a symbol of the LGBT movement.

[isanbirder]

I know the anti-gay propaganda law in Russia and the Olympics has been discussed a lot, but for those that are interested this just came across the news feed in the World News Section:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/678138-putin-says-gays-welcome-at-sochi-olympics-despite-propaganda-law/#entry6979614

Here's a little excerpt from it:

Alexander Zhukov, the head of Russia's National Olympic Committee, told the RIA Novosti news agency at the time that gays will be able to take part in the event without any fears for their safety. "If a person does not put across his views in the presence of children, no measures against him can be taken," he said. But it is unclear if the law also applies to the public display of, for example, the rainbow flag that is a symbol of the LGBT movement.

Putin also is reported as saying, "Gays are welcome at Sochi."

[Jingthing]

This is obviously just a PR stunt for the Olympics and also to prevent any chance of protests there about the actual situation in Greater Russia. That doesn't change at all.

[Scott]

I agree that it's probably a PR exercise, but hopefully the powers in Russia are going to get used to the idea that gays won't just disappear.

[sustento]

Why would anyone at the Olympics want to fly a rainbow flag when they're supposed to be there to represent their country?

[Jingthing]

Why would anyone at the Olympics want to fly a rainbow flag when they're supposed to be there to represent their country?

To protest Russian government policies of anti-gay oppression. Obviously.

[onthemoon]

Why would anyone at the Olympics want to fly a rainbow flag when they're supposed to be there to represent their country?

Because they are representing the gay country... errrr...

[onthemoon]

I know the anti-gay propaganda law in Russia and the Olympics has been discussed a lot, but for those that are interested this just came across the news feed in the World News Section:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/678138-putin-says-gays-welcome-at-sochi-olympics-despite-propaganda-law/#entry6979614

Here's a little excerpt from it:

Alexander Zhukov, the head of Russia's National Olympic Committee, told the RIA Novosti news agency at the time that gays will be able to take part in the event without any fears for their safety. "If a person does not put across his views in the presence of children, no measures against him can be taken," he said. But it is unclear if the law also applies to the public display of, for example, the rainbow flag that is a symbol of the LGBT movement.

Putin also is reported as saying, "Gays are welcome at Sochi."

Money wins at the end.

[Jingthing]

Money wins at the end.

Right and nothing improves for Russian gays because of this, and thing still seem to be getting worse. In my view -- carry on with the protests! They won't be about Sochi. They will be about greater Russia.

Russia’s idea of an “expert” on homosexuality? Paul Cameron, the discredited antigay psychologist who conflates homosexuality with pedophilia, testified before Russia’s Parliament as an invited expert earlier this month,BuzzFeed reports.

http://www.advocate.com/news/world-news/2013/10/29/russia-invites-discredited-antigay-researcher-offer-expert-testimony

[ToddWeston]

Why would anyone at the Olympics want to fly a rainbow flag when they're supposed to be there to represent their country?

I would certainly hope no one from my two countries would be disrespectful, they represent the Nation (s) it's a sporting event not a parade or protest.

All the hysteria and sound bites are over - Russian bad, let the games begin.

[Jingthing]

Putin DESERVES disrespect. These are Putin's games the same as Berlin 36 were Hitler's games. Don't buy into his lies!

[kevozman1]

Why are you singling out Russia for? I should imagine their laws and attitudes towards homosexuality are fairly tame compared to that of middle eastern countries. Not that i am personally backing their ways, I dislike it also and hopefully their attitudes will change in the future. Until then it does seem it will be a struggle for homosexual people in Russia, they will have to choose to stay and fight or leave, probably London or Brighton will be a suitable other European alternative.

edit: I suppose another alternative is to stay and have secretive same sex relationships, not ideal though.

Edited October 30, 2013 by kevozman1

[Jingthing]

If Uganda had the Olympics coming up, the focus of attention would be there now. Duh!

Most Russian gays are not in a position to leave and if great numbers of them tried to leave, the slots for asylum would likely dry up.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Jingthing

[onthemoon]

Putin DESERVES disrespect. These are Putin's games the same as Berlin 36 were Hitler's games. Don't buy into his lies!

I would say they are the participant's games. Germany boycotted the Olympic Games in Moscow sometime in the 1970s, and the only ones who got hurt were the German would-be participants who lost their chance.

The Olympic Games are non-political and should be about sports. The current discussion about one aspect of politics in the host country is great, but when the games begin, it's about sports.

[ToddWeston]

There is a time and a place for protest if that's your thing, the Olympics is not one of them. If and I hope no protest happens don't you think the Russian gays would be scapegoated as the cause of the unpatriotic cause of the disruption ? which would do more harm than good in the long run.

[isanbirder]

Just suppose.....

the Olympics were in your country, which had spent billions providing a stunning venue for the Games... as a showcase for your country. How would you feel if a group of participants took some action which was obviously a protest against some recent law YOUR country had just passed? I think you would be annoyed that these participants had abused your hospitality. I don't think you would feel you wanted to repeal the law; quite the reverse.

I don't think there's really any comparison with the Berlin Games. Yes, they were Hitler's Games, but they were also the Games of the Nazi Party, which hadn't got where it was without substantial support from the German people, which it still enjoyed.

[sustento]

Just suppose.....

the Olympics were in your country, which had spent billions providing a stunning venue for the Games... as a showcase for your country. How would you feel if a group of participants took some action which was obviously a protest against some recent law YOUR country had just passed? I think you would be annoyed that these participants had abused your hospitality. I don't think you would feel you wanted to repeal the law; quite the reverse.

I don't think there's really any comparison with the Berlin Games. Yes, they were Hitler's Games, but they were also the Games of the Nazi Party, which hadn't got where it was without substantial support from the German people, which it still enjoyed.

Just suppose all the African countries had protested about civil partnerships in the UK at the London Games?

[Jingthing]

That's absurd.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Scott]

Just suppose.....

the Olympics were in your country, which had spent billions providing a stunning venue for the Games... as a showcase for your country. How would you feel if a group of participants took some action which was obviously a protest against some recent law YOUR country had just passed? I think you would be annoyed that these participants had abused your hospitality. I don't think you would feel you wanted to repeal the law; quite the reverse.

I don't think there's really any comparison with the Berlin Games. Yes, they were Hitler's Games, but they were also the Games of the Nazi Party, which hadn't got where it was without substantial support from the German people, which it still enjoyed.

Just suppose all the African countries had protested about civil partnerships in the UK at the London Games?

Then they would have had to come out of hiding. I think a number of them managed to go missing. Apparently they liked the UK.

[Jingthing]

I would welcome foreigners in the US protesting the prison system.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[onthemoon]

That's absurd.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Only because they are not as well-organised as the pro-gay campaigners going to the Russia Olympics.

[sustento]

Just suppose.....

the Olympics were in your country, which had spent billions providing a stunning venue for the Games... as a showcase for your country. How would you feel if a group of participants took some action which was obviously a protest against some recent law YOUR country had just passed? I think you would be annoyed that these participants had abused your hospitality. I don't think you would feel you wanted to repeal the law; quite the reverse.

I don't think there's really any comparison with the Berlin Games. Yes, they were Hitler's Games, but they were also the Games of the Nazi Party, which hadn't got where it was without substantial support from the German people, which it still enjoyed.

Just suppose all the African countries had protested about civil partnerships in the UK at the London Games?

Then they would have had to come out of hiding. I think a number of them managed to go missing. Apparently they liked the UK.

You can't beat the NHS for attracting visitors

[onthemoon]

Just suppose.....

the Olympics were in your country, which had spent billions providing a stunning venue for the Games... as a showcase for your country. How would you feel if a group of participants took some action which was obviously a protest against some recent law YOUR country had just passed? I think you would be annoyed that these participants had abused your hospitality. I don't think you would feel you wanted to repeal the law; quite the reverse.

I don't think there's really any comparison with the Berlin Games. Yes, they were Hitler's Games, but they were also the Games of the Nazi Party, which hadn't got where it was without substantial support from the German people, which it still enjoyed.

Just suppose all the African countries had protested about civil partnerships in the UK at the London Games?

Then they would have had to come out of hiding. I think a number of them managed to go missing. Apparently they liked the UK.

You can't beat the NHS for attracting visitors

That's not fair. Every Western European country has a functioning health system in place, that is part of the state of development. Developing countries don't usually have that (albeit I quite like the state in which Thailand is in this respect), so of course it is an attractor.

But then, this is off-topic in this thread, or even this subforum.

[sustento]

The smiley thingy was to try and show that I was joking...