First time 12 month extension of Non O - retirement

[bluesofa]

What's the time frame for the first time 12 month extension of a Non O visa based on
retirement?

The immigration staff said “see you in two months”, when I was issued my Non O - but it expires after 90 days.
At the time it didn't click, but thinking about it, I'd guess it would be better to request the 12 month extension a few days before the Non O is due to expire – as in a few days before the 90 days, rather than two months? Is this correct?


A bit of background for anyone who maybe interested:
A lot of hassle getting a TR visa changed to a Non O at Udon.

The staff on reception at Udon initially said for a Non O visa I'd have to go to Laos and apply there.
When I said that I thought I could change my visa within Thailand, I was told Bangkok was the only place to do it.

So, had a day in BKK. The staff there said that to apply for a Non O, I needed to show I had 800K Baht in my Thai bank account - and also proof it had come from abroad.
It was the proof of it coming from abroad that was the stumbling block for me (the money has been in my Thai bank for about ten years or so).

My g/f managed to contact a helpful immigration staff member at Chaeng Wattana, who said that BKK did in fact stipulate the money had to been seen as coming from abroad, but if I changed my visa in Udon, no one there would interested in that requirement!

More phone calls and my g/f managed to contact an Udon staff member who admitted that, yes, I could change my visa in Udon.

After a lot of hassle, and the boss in Udon tying to throw obstacles in the way as to why it wasn't easy and it would be better going to Laos, I did eventually get my visa changed to a Non O at Udon. It took half an hour, once he accepted I knew he could do it.

[ubonjoe]

You can do it at any time during the last 30 days of your permit to stay.

I suggest you go at least a week early.

[Jingthing]

It sounds like are concerned if you go in for your extension EARLY that you will lose some days on the extension. That concern is unfounded. For example if you go in 30 days before expiration of your current 90 day stay, your NEW annual extension will START from the day after your current expiration of permission to stay. So there is no good reason NOT to go in early and plenty of good reasons not to go in too close to the expiration date.

[bluesofa]

Thanks Ubonjoe,

Does the 12 month extension start from the day it is approved (say I apply one full month before my 90 days expires), or will it be forward dated to be 12 months from the entry expiry date?

Also, is it just one visit for the 12 month extension, or will I need to wait some time for approval and re-visit after applying?

[Jingthing]

Again, it starts starting from the current expiration date. Guaranteed. I do this myself for years. Cheers.

or will it be forward dated to be 12 months from the entry expiry date?

YES!

Edited July 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[ubonjoe]

One visit if you have every thing you need.

[jrtmedic]

Is this guy aware of the need for 90 day reports once he has secured his extension ?

[bluesofa]

Yes, jrtmedic, this guy (me!) is aware of the 90 reporting requirement, thanks.

I think in a neaby thread, the OP didn't seem too sure though:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/650975-non-o-confusion/

[jrtmedic]

OK---Enjoy your stay!

[Obb]

I also today inquired at my local immigration office about a 1-year extension for a retirement visa.

Contrary to what has been stated elsewhere in this forum:

1) the money in my bank account would have to have been seasoned for 3 months

2) a foreign currency account with the equivalent of 800,000 baht would not suffice; the money had to be in baht

The erroneous TV answers would best be replaced by "depends on many variables; check at your local immigration office".

Also, there are many reports locally of bribes being paid to both immigration officials AND banks to circumvent the rules. (The bank will, for a fee, put money into your account and then remove it when the extension has been obtained.)

I would never pay bribes in this rotten country and I suppose the immigration officers sensed this and did not offer. The bank, however, did offer to arrange things and I declined.

Furthermore, as I am not an American I cannot just "swear in an affidavit" that I have 65,000 baht per month in income - without having to provide proof - so that well-known ruse was also not available.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Obb

[ubonjoe]

It is 2 months for first extension then 3 months after that.

[Obb]

It is 2 months for first extension then 3 months after that.

No.

This would be one of those erroneous TV answers best replaced with "depends on many variables; check with your local immigration office".

[lopburi3]

And the statements on accounts has been about fixed deposit accounts in baht.

And what are you calling a retirement visa? Only the long stay O-A provides a pre-approved one year extension of stay - even on a normal 90 day visa entry the first extension only required money in account 60 days and that is clearly stated in police order 777/2551.

For the first year, the applicant

should have that amount in his bank account for not less than 60

days

[Jingthing]

It is 2 months for first extension then 3 months after that.

No.

This would be one of those erroneous TV answers best replaced with "depends on many variables; check with your local immigration office".

Two months for the FIRST extension is the OFFICIAL government rule. You are correct that a few offices might incorrectly require three months for the first extension, but that is surely a small minority of offices. So it's true, a good idea to check about local eccentricities.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[Lite Beer]

The official ruling:

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);

(2) The applicant is 50 years of age or over;

(3) Proof of income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) Account deposit with a bank in Thailand of not less than

800,000 Baht as shown in the bank account for the past 3 months at the filing date of the application. For the first year, the applicant should have that amount in his bank account for not less than 60 days or

(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application

[OJAS]

Furthermore, as I am not an American I cannot just "swear in an affidavit" that I have 65,000 baht per month in income - without having to provide proof - so that well-known ruse was also not available.

And an illegal ruse for our American cousins, too, I gather, if they lied under oath to obtain the Embassy POI letter. Probably not sufficiently serious as to get offenders placed on the list of "America's Most Wanted" or even extradited back to the States under an Interpol arrest warrant. But they would presumably find themselves in hot water when/if they next set foot on US soil.

Edited July 3, 2013 by OJAS

[bluesofa]

And the statements on accounts has been about fixed deposit accounts in baht.

And what are you calling a retirement visa? Only the long stay O-A provides a pre-approved one year extension of stay - even on a normal 90 day visa entry the first extension only required money in account 60 days and that is clearly stated in police order 777/2551.

For the first year, the applicant

should have that amount in his bank account for not less than 60

days

Hi Lopuri3,

A slight side-track regarding converting a TR to a Non O - but only in BKK:

What is the interest in proving the 800K Baht in a Thai bank came from abroad, and not only that it has been the the bank for the qualifying time?

When applying for the 12 month Non O renewal, it's not necessary to prove where the money originated from (that I'm aware of anyway)?

[Jingthing]

Immigration officers are on the lookout for retired expats who are working in Thailand illegally as you can't work legally in Thailand on retirement status. The officers are police. Applicants are suspects.

[Suradit69]

I also today inquired at my local immigration office about a 1-year extension for a retirement visa.

Contrary to what has been stated elsewhere in this forum:

1) the money in my bank account would have to have been seasoned for 3 months

2) a foreign currency account with the equivalent of 800,000 baht would not suffice; the money had to be in baht

The erroneous TV answers would best be replaced by "depends on many variables; check at your local immigration office".

Also, there are many reports locally of bribes being paid to both immigration officials AND banks to circumvent the rules. (The bank will, for a fee, put money into your account and then remove it when the extension has been obtained.)

I would never pay bribes in this rotten country and I suppose the immigration officers sensed this and did not offer. The bank, however, did offer to arrange things and I declined.

Furthermore, as I am not an American I cannot just "swear in an affidavit" that I have 65,000 baht per month in income - without having to provide proof - so that well-known ruse was also not available.

"

I would never pay bribes in this rotten country and I suppose the immigration officers sensed this and did not offer. The bank, however, did offer to arrange things and I declined."

Why are you so eager to stay in this "rotten country?" I know of no one who has paid a bribe or been asked for one.

"Furthermore, as I am not an American I cannot just "swear in an affidavit" that I have 65,000 baht per month in income - without having to provide proof - so that well-known ruse was also not available."

Where do you come up with "that well-known ruse?" Immigrations can, and sometimes does, ask for substantiation of any claim. If we're going to make wild accusations about rotten countries and ruses, I'll speculate that most people obtaining an affidavit from their embassies, not just Americans, are totally honest and have the paperwork to back it up or can get it easily.

[jrtmedic]

Clearly Obb knows all the answers ! ( I wish I did! )

Obb would not seem to need any more "erronious" responses from TV members !

Lets wish Obb good luck and hope he reports back here a success story that we can all learn from !

[NancyL]

Oh dear, I hope Obbs returns to taking his medications and attending anger management classes.

Yes, there can be serious problems for Americans who have lied on their income statements. I find it an interesting "switch up", but the so-called nanny-state countries in Europe (and by that I include the UK) won't give repatriation loans to their destitute nationals who want to return to their home country, but the Americans will. Interesting in that once Americans return, they don't immediately jump into Nanny's bosom for free care, but somehow the American will give loans to get their nationals home.

Anyway, if an American has lied about their income to obtain their retirement visa, then the consulate/embassy staff will ask some serious questions -- I can't say if they'd refuse to make the loan -- I'm not a State Dept employee -- but life will be very difficult for these people.

As for money ageing two months for the first extension vs. three months for the ones that follow, well, Obbs, here in Chiang Mai the "rule" appears to be two months. Let's remember that each province has their own rules. As for the news about transferring money in for just a short period -- well, in some provinces if you use the so-called "combo" method, i.e. some income but not 65,000 baht/month, then the bank balance doesn't need to age. Thus you can have an "instant loan" to make up the shortfall and it's all acceptable to Immigration -- at least in some provinces. (I wish they'd change this rule.)

As for foreign currency accounts being accepted -- again this is a "rule": that may vary by province.

So, Obb, I suggest you take that chip off your shoulder, learn a little about respect and humility, and recognize that the best minds in the Thai visa universe hang out at this forum and be more specific -- your nationality, what province, etc.

(Oh, I'd love to know why you're slagging Yanks, also. We don't go around making negative comments about other nationalities. Frankly, I didn't realize the hatred other English-speaking people have for Americans until I came to Thailand.)

Edited July 3, 2013 by NancyL

[NancyL]

Can no longer edit my previous post, so I'll add this about proving your funds came from abroad.

If you save your old passbooks for accounts at Thai banks, then each transaction will have a code which shows the origin of the funds. It's easy-peasy (a non-American word I learned on this forum) for a bank official to certify that the funds originated from abroad if you show them the old passbook.

I'm amazed at how many people fail to keep either their old passports or old passbooks. These are items you should never discard while you're living outside your home country.

Edited July 3, 2013 by NancyL

[Jingthing]

I ask my bank for a paper RECEIPT for all incoming foreign transfers and so far no problems always getting them for free (going back for a year even).

[StevenHeidbriderSr]

I also today inquired at my local immigration office about a 1-year extension for a retirement visa.

Contrary to what has been stated elsewhere in this forum:

1) the money in my bank account would have to have been seasoned for 3 months

2) a foreign currency account with the equivalent of 800,000 baht would not suffice; the money had to be in baht

The erroneous TV answers would best be replaced by "depends on many variables; check at your local immigration office".

Also, there are many reports locally of bribes being paid to both immigration officials AND banks to circumvent the rules. (The bank will, for a fee, put money into your account and then remove it when the extension has been obtained.)

I would never pay bribes in this rotten country and I suppose the immigration officers sensed this and did not offer. The bank, however, did offer to arrange things and I declined.

Furthermore, as I am not an American I cannot just "swear in an affidavit" that I have 65,000 baht per month in income - without having to provide proof - so that well-known ruse was also not available.

So you assume that Americans are Fibbers? I think the Thai Immigration has learned over the years who is truthful and who isn't:wai2: Edited July 4, 2013 by lopburi3
fix quote

[OJAS]

"So you assume that Americans are Fibbers? I think the Thai Immigration has learned over the years who is truthful and who isn't"

Hmm, interesting that this final sentence appears to have been removed from Obb's post at #10 - presumably by the Great And Almighty One himself?

"Frankly, I didn't realize the hatred other English-speaking people have for Americans until I came to Thailand."

I can assure you Americans that that doesn't apply to me as a Brit. Heaven help those of us who hail from Good Old Blighty if Good Old Obb is, in fact, one of us! He's probably just jealous because his monthly income ain't anywhere near the 65,000 THB required for an Embassy POI letter (which might also explain his reluctance to pay "bribes" as he sees them?).

Edited July 3, 2013 by OJAS

[ubonjoe]

Can no longer edit my previous post, so I'll add this about proving your funds came from abroad.If you save your old passbooks for accounts at Thai banks, then each transaction will have a code which shows the origin of the funds. It's easy-peasy (a non-American word I learned on this forum) for a bank official to certify that the funds originated from abroad if you show them the old passbook.I'm amazed at how many people fail to keep either their old passports or old passbooks. These are items you should never discard while you're living outside your home country.

I have a bank book with the code FTT (foreign telex transfer) for my SS payments. I think that many immigration officers know about this code.

There should be no need for a letter from bank.

[OJAS]

"So you assume that Americans are Fibbers? I think the Thai Immigration has learned over the years who is truthful and who isn't"

Hmm, interesting that this final sentence appears to have been removed from Obb's post at #10 - presumably by the Great And Almighty One himself?

A-ha, Lop's subsequent editing of post # 24 has now made things a whole lot clearer! Still waiting with baited breath to hear from Obb regarding his nationality, though.