Dr Porntip lodges complaints against forensic team in Akeyuth case

[Thereisnoif]

An attention grabbing fraud with zero scientific credibility .

[geriatrickid]

Dr. Porthep, got on the wrong side of the police during the Thaksin administration. She was the one that brought the corruption in the police during the tsunami. She questioned the thousands of killings carried out by the police drug crackdown.

She knows the forensics process and she will not be dictated to by the police or politicians.

Hello? The issue of corruption in the police force was no secret. She wasn't instrumental in highlighting this after the tsunami. The population was rather vocal about it, as were foreign governments. You do understand that the southern region is a Democrat party stronghold. Any complaints about the local politicians would have implicated Democrat supporters not the TRT.

Yes, she questioned some of the fatalities during the the counter narco terrorist campaign. She wasn't the only one to do this. There were many reputable people and NGOs asking questions and expressing their concerns. Give credit where credit is due. Her PR activities gave the impression that she was some crusader. She wasn't. IMO, she never met a camera she didn't love. Some of her statements back then, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight , IMO seem to have been motivated more by the opportunity of some public face time than anything else. She really came to believe the hype that she was someone special.

If there was a political vendetta, why then did the PTP administration extend her term after the election? She was up for a review over a year ago, but the PTP kept her on. If anything you should be slamming the government for doing so. Both the Democrat and PTP administrations should have removed her for incompetence after the bomb detector fiasco. However, in Thailand, officials are not held responsible for their incompetence are they. Instead, the officials get shuffled about, ready to continue as the gift that keeps on giving.

Dr. Pornthip, needs to retire and go and rebuild her credibility. As of now, she will be dogged by her conduct during the bomb detector mess. She defended that device and claimed it worked. She wouldn't accept criticism and verify the device. What does this say about her thinking process and reliability?

Edited July 8, 2013 by geriatrickid

[geriatrickid]

There's an awful lot of messenger shooting here. She was mistaken over the bomb 'detectors'. So were the army, police and many local authorities. That does not make her lose credibility in forensics.

She was asked to become involved with the Akeyuth case while being told that a second autopsy would not be allowed. She has every right to speak up as the case was apparently 'solved' by Chalerm even before the victim's body was found.

I don't know if it was a political killing or a revenge killing but I'm pretty dam_n sure it wasn't how the BIB were instructed to present it.

Sorry, but her conduct during the affair most certainly calls into question her credibility. It wasn't just the endorsement, but the steadfast refusal to acknowledge the mounting facts.

Here's another classic Porntip questionable activity. Remember, the Rohingya crisis that embarrassed the Abhisit administration when the Thai military was accused of towing the refugees out to sea and then abandoning them? In 2009 she provided an excuse for the military's conduct by claiming that the refugees boats had explosive residues. The evidence was questionable at the time. Then in January 2013, she made Thailand a laughing stock when her department again made the claim about the refugees claiming blood samples and DNA tests supported the conclusion. (She should publish the findings since it seems it's a new concept as that she's the only person to make a claim in this manner.)

http://asiancorrespondent.com/96419/thai-forensic-expert-links-rohingya-refugees-to-southern-thai-insurgency-again/

Really, Seriously? Do you think that is actually credible? Is it any surprise, people were aghast? She embarrassed Thailand. Do you think this might have had a role in her transfer?

why are some people calling her a scientist? She is not a scientist. She is a medical pathologist. She has no formal training as a research scientist. where are her credentials from an accredited institution? Where's her M.Cl.Sc. or doctorate? She is a physician that specialized in pathology. She opines on explosives and chemicals, but she is not an expert in either. She opines on DNA, but she is not a geneticist. She over stretches her educational training and her abilities.

[rametindallas]

I agree that Porntip has blown her credibility.

It seems there is a huge push to make this murder a political one. This, despite there being a long, long line of people that this scumbag ripped off that are equally as likely to have had him bumped off.

I agree that Porntip has blown her credibility.

Even a broken clock tells the time correctly twice a day

It seems there is a huge push to make this murder a political one. This, despite there being a long, long line of people that this scumbag ripped off that are equally as likely to have had him bumped off.

Why wait 15 years for revenge for economic loss when the politics were about to get ugly. The PM had a defamation suit against him in court for revealing her bunk meeting with a wealthy real estate developer at the Four Seasons Hotel. Testimony in his defense may have embarrassed the PM greatly.

My thinking is the PTP had more reason than long-ago victims of a pyramid scheme to be involved in this. Just look at who is handling the investigation for the police and all the shrill denials. This stinks to high Heaven.

[rametindallas]

Looks like the rats are out to play , nothing ceases to amaze in Amazing Thailand , how many times are these sort of cases are a cop out for corruption at a high level , the gentleman concerned was only doing what we do here quiet often and that is to criticise the current PTP government and why not, the fact that he was a very rich business man is not the question , what a wonderful chance, along with a little planning to bring silence, the DSI wants to rise above the PTP mentality and proceed without favour , cause what go's around comes around .

Business man?

He was a thief!

He was both and not worthy of being murdered for his long-ago thieving. Many thieving businessmen live long lives without being murdered. It's the timing of his death and the specific players in the case of arresting and investigative officers in the police department that cause so much suspicion. This case will not go away as easily as you seem to want.

[djjamie]

The article would be more appropriate to have been written as;

Disgraced forensic pathologist Porntip Rojanasunan criticized local forensic officials investigating the murder of businessman Akeyuth Anchanbutr alleging that they were not doing their job independently.

IMO Dr. Porntip over stepped her authority with her criticism. She was not in a position to offer an objective opinion, nor should she have been interfering in another department. I doubt she's particularly happy with the current government since her removal as CIFS Director in April 2013. (She was transferred over to the Ministry of Justice to work as its Inspector General. Apparently she received formal advice of the transfer while she was on a junket (my term for an "official" visit) to China. At the time she claimed she was a victim of politics.)

Apparently, it still hasn't dawned on Dr. Porntip that the fiasco with the bomb detector was still going strong in 2012 and that it was reasonable for the government not to renew her posting. The woman lost all credibility when she endorsed the bogus GT200 bomb detector. In any other country, such a blunder would have caused all of her previous cases to be reviewed to determine if she demonstrated the same incompetence in her past investigations. Fortunately, for her, she worked in Thailand and such reviews are not likely to occur.

Perhaps there are problems with the investigation. There usually are valid criticisms of these investigations, although Dr. Porntip seems to be bereft of acknowledging the issue back when she was the department director. In this case, I call sour grapes and the fury of a woman with a chip on her shoulder. She should have resigned from the government and spent some time working towards restoring her credibility. If there is a deficiency, then the question that should be asked of this woman, is what did she do when she was in charge of the department to implement protocols and reliable procedures. Yea, that's what I expected. Silence.

Ohh the sarcasm is priceless.

They say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but hands down with that comment I disagree.

I agree. The PTP should be very worried about an intelligent person such as Dr Porntip. They are not used to dealing with intelligence so I enjoy how this turns out.

[geriatrickid]

The article would be more appropriate to have been written as;

Disgraced forensic pathologist Porntip Rojanasunan criticized local forensic officials investigating the murder of businessman Akeyuth Anchanbutr alleging that they were not doing their job independently.

IMO Dr. Porntip over stepped her authority with her criticism. She was not in a position to offer an objective opinion, nor should she have been interfering in another department. I doubt she's particularly happy with the current government since her removal as CIFS Director in April 2013. (She was transferred over to the Ministry of Justice to work as its Inspector General. Apparently she received formal advice of the transfer while she was on a junket (my term for an "official" visit) to China. At the time she claimed she was a victim of politics.)

Apparently, it still hasn't dawned on Dr. Porntip that the fiasco with the bomb detector was still going strong in 2012 and that it was reasonable for the government not to renew her posting. The woman lost all credibility when she endorsed the bogus GT200 bomb detector. In any other country, such a blunder would have caused all of her previous cases to be reviewed to determine if she demonstrated the same incompetence in her past investigations. Fortunately, for her, she worked in Thailand and such reviews are not likely to occur.

Perhaps there are problems with the investigation. There usually are valid criticisms of these investigations, although Dr. Porntip seems to be bereft of acknowledging the issue back when she was the department director. In this case, I call sour grapes and the fury of a woman with a chip on her shoulder. She should have resigned from the government and spent some time working towards restoring her credibility. If there is a deficiency, then the question that should be asked of this woman, is what did she do when she was in charge of the department to implement protocols and reliable procedures. Yea, that's what I expected. Silence.

Ohh the sarcasm is priceless.

They say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but hands down with that comment I disagree.

I agree. The PTP should be very worried about an intelligent person such as Dr Porntip. They are not used to dealing with intelligence so I enjoy how this turns out.

Intelligence as demonstrated by her defense of a bogus bom detector? Or her intelligence as demonstrated by making claims that the Rohingya towed out to sea to their deaths were "terrorists", or her intelligence when the claims that the refugee children and women could be considered terrorists because of the alleged DNA and blood evidence? Dr. Porntip is a medical pathologist. Would you have the same confidence level if a dermatologist weighed in on alzheimers? You agree with her only because it supports your own personal opinion.

[katana]

It wasn't just Porntip from Thailand hoodwinked by the GT 200.
Others countries fooled were India, Mexico, and even the United Nations Environment Programme, who spent millions on them.
Even the UK government was conned:
"On 27 February 2011 the British government told BBC Newsnight that it had helped Global Technical sell the GT200 around the world between 2001 and 2004. Royal Engineers sales teams demonstrated the devices at arms fairs and the UK Department of Trade and Industry helped two companies sell the GT200 and similar products in Mexico and the Philippines."

I guess with hindsight it's now self-evident that they're fakes and couldn't possibly work, but at the time, it's easy to be bamboozled by new technology and just accept what people are telling you.
As Schopenhauer famously said, all truth passes through 3 stages. First it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed; third it is accepted as being self-evident.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT200

[Robby nz]

As far as the bomb detectors go we don't know what was given out initially to be tested.

The things that were given out out for evaluation may well have worked.

There were so many people fooled all over the world into buying them that it seems incredible that they could all have been paid off or fooled by a useless plastic box.

Once the orders were received and the money pocketed then what was delivered in bulk could well, while looking the same, have been the completely different useless and far cheaper to produce box of nothing these things turned out to be.

To try to discredit Dr Porntip on the grounds of the bomb detector thing, which after all was not her field of expertise is just silly.

But why not there are 3 shoot the messenger topics going on here right now.

[tominbkk]

I agree that Porntip has blown her credibility.

It seems there is a huge push to make this murder a political one. This, despite there being a long, long line of people that this scumbag ripped off that are equally as likely to have had him bumped off.

Fair enough, but the supposed method in which thebBIB say he was killed and the suspect just don't jibe. That's why it makes it look like the police are hiding something.

[Siripon]

I agree that Porntip has blown her credibility.

It seems there is a huge push to make this murder a political one. This, despite there being a long, long line of people that this scumbag ripped off that are equally as likely to have had him bumped off.

Fair enough, but the supposed method in which thebBIB say he was killed and the suspect just don't jibe. That's why it makes it look like the police are hiding something.

They flatly contradict each other. The autopsy said he was killed from behind whilst the suspect claims he killed him alone, using a shoelace from the front! Aekayut was a big man, I can't see a flimsy shoelace wielded by a somewhat slightly built man killing him.

Where are Santiparp's phone records just prior to the abduction?

Where are Aekayut's missing and highly expensive amulet and gold watch?

This case is full of holes, perhaps a audio clip will turn up soon with some big names discussing the case!

[geriatrickid]

As far as the bomb detectors go we don't know what was given out initially to be tested.

The things that were given out out for evaluation may well have worked.

There were so many people fooled all over the world into buying them that it seems incredible that they could all have been paid off or fooled by a useless plastic box.

Once the orders were received and the money pocketed then what was delivered in bulk could well, while looking the same, have been the completely different useless and far cheaper to produce box of nothing these things turned out to be.

To try to discredit Dr Porntip on the grounds of the bomb detector thing, which after all was not her field of expertise is just silly.

But why not there are 3 shoot the messenger topics going on here right now.

You have highlighted her fundamental deficiency.

You state, "To try to discredit Dr Porntip on the grounds of the bomb detector thing, which after all was not her field of expertise is just silly."

No it isn't. If she didn't have the expertise, why then did she defend the bogus devices? This wasn't just a one time error. A strong case was presented that the devices were questionable. She refused to consider the evidence and remained steadfast in her opinion. In that bomb detector case, she presented herself as an authority and opined as such, despite, as you acknowledge, her lack of expertise.

In the Akeyuth case, she is not in a position to comment. Keep in mind that she works in a different department in an administrative role and is removed from the investigation. She has overstepped her authority since she has no say in this type of investigation. Aside from the very public breach of procedure, she is not in possession of all of the facts. If she shot her mouth off like this in Australia or the UK or the USA etc. she would be subject to reprimand and a disciplinary hearing, and even termination. She has legal duties and responsibilities and should not be offering her opinion in this manner.

Keep in mind that she did not participate in the autopsy. And, to the best of my knowledge she has not seen the investigation reports, nor the autopsy report. The investigators certainly haven't spoken to her in their official capacity, nor asked for her opinion. And yet, she runs off at the mouth offering up her assessment. I have the impression that she craves public attention.

She certainly did not get this worked up over the deaths of other people who needed an advocate when their autopsies were considered questionable. Wasn't this the woman in charge of the forensics special team when the foreigners started dying off in the Chiang Mai hotel? We didn't hear anything from her at the time did we?

How about when those 2 girls died last year? Remember how the forensic experts claimed it was accidental DEET poisoning? The Canadian coroner challenged the autopsy findings of Thai officials that ruled two Quebec sisters found dead in their hotel room in June were accidentally poisoned. Coroner Renée Roussel told Radio-Canada the concentration of the chemical DEET in the sisters' systems wasn't enough to be fatal. That finding directly contradicted the conclusion of Thai authorities, who performed post-mortems on the bodies of Noémi Bélanger, 25, and Audrey Bélanger, 20, Where was Dr, Porntip on that case? What was her response? Oh wait, there wasn't a response was there? And yet, you and others blindly embrace whatever this woman says. Sorry, but her credibility as a pathologist and as a supervisor are in tatters.

Edited July 10, 2013 by geriatrickid

[Robby nz]

Robby nz, on 10 Jul 2013 - 05:47, said:

As far as the bomb detectors go we don't know what was given out initially to be tested.

The things that were given out out for evaluation may well have worked.

There were so many people fooled all over the world into buying them that it seems incredible that they could all have been paid off or fooled by a useless plastic box.

Once the orders were received and the money pocketed then what was delivered in bulk could well, while looking the same, have been the completely different useless and far cheaper to produce box of nothing these things turned out to be.

To try to discredit Dr Porntip on the grounds of the bomb detector thing, which after all was not her field of expertise is just silly.

But why not there are 3 shoot the messenger topics going on here right now.

You have highlighted her fundamental deficiency.

You state, "To try to discredit Dr Porntip on the grounds of the bomb detector thing, which after all was not her field of expertise is just silly."

No it isn't. If she didn't have the expertise, why then did she defend the bogus devices? This wasn't just a one time error. A strong case was presented that the devices were questionable. She refused to consider the evidence and remained steadfast in her opinion. In that bomb detector case, she presented herself as an authority and opined as such, despite, as you acknowledge, her lack of expertise.

In the Akeyuth case, she is not in a position to comment. Keep in mind that she works in a different department in an administrative role and is removed from the investigation. She has overstepped her authority since she has no say in this type of investigation. Aside from the very public breach of procedure, she is not in possession of all of the facts. If she shot her mouth off like this in Australia or the UK or the USA etc. she would be subject to reprimand and a disciplinary hearing, and even termination. She has legal duties and responsibilities and should not be offering her opinion in this manner.

Keep in mind that she did not participate in the autopsy. And, to the best of my knowledge she has not seen the investigation reports, nor the autopsy report. The investigators certainly haven't spoken to her in their official capacity, nor asked for her opinion. And yet, she runs off at the mouth offering up her assessment. I have the impression that she craves public attention.

She certainly did not get this worked up over the deaths of other people who needed an advocate when their autopsies were considered questionable. Wasn't this the woman in charge of the forensics special team when the foreigners started dying off in the Chiang Mai hotel? We didn't hear anything from her at the time did we?

How about when those 2 girls died last year? Remember how the forensic experts claimed it was accidental DEET poisoning? The Canadian coroner challenged the autopsy findings of Thai officials that ruled two Quebec sisters found dead in their hotel room in June were accidentally poisoned. Coroner Renée Roussel told Radio-Canada the concentration of the chemical DEET in the sisters' systems wasn't enough to be fatal. That finding directly contradicted the conclusion of Thai authorities, who performed post-mortems on the bodies of Noémi Bélanger, 25, and Audrey Bélanger, 20, Where was Dr, Porntip on that case? What was her response? Oh wait, there wasn't a response was there? And yet, you and others blindly embrace whatever this woman says. Sorry, but her credibility as a pathologist and as a supervisor are in tatters.

I would suspect she was given one of the things to comment on and did so, if you have any evidence to the contrary please post.

These things were tested all over the world and even demonstrated to the public in the UK so what was demonstrated must have worked.

Which sort of supports my supposition that the things that that were delivered were different to those given out for evaluation.

I know you can post some good stuff at times but this in not one of these times for all you are doing is bashing the lady without knowing what the contents of her complaint are.

[Thai at Heart]

Robby nz, on 10 Jul 2013 - 05:47, said:

As far as the bomb detectors go we don't know what was given out initially to be tested.

The things that were given out out for evaluation may well have worked.

There were so many people fooled all over the world into buying them that it seems incredible that they could all have been paid off or fooled by a useless plastic box.

Once the orders were received and the money pocketed then what was delivered in bulk could well, while looking the same, have been the completely different useless and far cheaper to produce box of nothing these things turned out to be.

To try to discredit Dr Porntip on the grounds of the bomb detector thing, which after all was not her field of expertise is just silly.

But why not there are 3 shoot the messenger topics going on here right now.

You have highlighted her fundamental deficiency.

You state, "To try to discredit Dr Porntip on the grounds of the bomb detector thing, which after all was not her field of expertise is just silly."

No it isn't. If she didn't have the expertise, why then did she defend the bogus devices? This wasn't just a one time error. A strong case was presented that the devices were questionable. She refused to consider the evidence and remained steadfast in her opinion. In that bomb detector case, she presented herself as an authority and opined as such, despite, as you acknowledge, her lack of expertise.

In the Akeyuth case, she is not in a position to comment. Keep in mind that she works in a different department in an administrative role and is removed from the investigation. She has overstepped her authority since she has no say in this type of investigation. Aside from the very public breach of procedure, she is not in possession of all of the facts. If she shot her mouth off like this in Australia or the UK or the USA etc. she would be subject to reprimand and a disciplinary hearing, and even termination. She has legal duties and responsibilities and should not be offering her opinion in this manner.

Keep in mind that she did not participate in the autopsy. And, to the best of my knowledge she has not seen the investigation reports, nor the autopsy report. The investigators certainly haven't spoken to her in their official capacity, nor asked for her opinion. And yet, she runs off at the mouth offering up her assessment. I have the impression that she craves public attention.

She certainly did not get this worked up over the deaths of other people who needed an advocate when their autopsies were considered questionable. Wasn't this the woman in charge of the forensics special team when the foreigners started dying off in the Chiang Mai hotel? We didn't hear anything from her at the time did we?

How about when those 2 girls died last year? Remember how the forensic experts claimed it was accidental DEET poisoning? The Canadian coroner challenged the autopsy findings of Thai officials that ruled two Quebec sisters found dead in their hotel room in June were accidentally poisoned. Coroner Renée Roussel told Radio-Canada the concentration of the chemical DEET in the sisters' systems wasn't enough to be fatal. That finding directly contradicted the conclusion of Thai authorities, who performed post-mortems on the bodies of Noémi Bélanger, 25, and Audrey Bélanger, 20, Where was Dr, Porntip on that case? What was her response? Oh wait, there wasn't a response was there? And yet, you and others blindly embrace whatever this woman says. Sorry, but her credibility as a pathologist and as a supervisor are in tatters.

I would suspect she was given one of the things to comment on and did so, if you have any evidence to the contrary please post.

These things were tested all over the world and even demonstrated to the public in the UK so what was demonstrated must have worked.

Which sort of supports my supposition that the things that that were delivered were different to those given out for evaluation.

I know you can post some good stuff at times but this in not one of these times for all you are doing is bashing the lady without knowing what the contents of her complaint are.

They weren't tested, they were demonstrated.

Any self respecting testing lab would have rubbished them. But then, bird nest soup makes you live forever according to Guangzhou school of Chinese medicine.

She have a celebrity pooyai endorsement.