I haven't spoken on the issue yet, but it is certainly a hot issue amongst both the Thais and the Farangs, and one that is causing a lot of speculation.

My own opinion is not too dissimilar to this, although I'll certainly refrain from calling the Elite of Bedlam "brain deads"...

Personally, I think it is just an uproar by those who are jealous of Thaksin's success... jealous that he was in a powerful political postion and was able to manipulate people and events to suit his own wealth-grabbing machinations... and jealous (of course) that they didn't get their cut too.

Like him or not, he has however done a lot of good for this developing country. You cannot compare Thailand now with the Thailand of 5 years ago.

The way my (Thai) missus puts it... the 30 baht scheme has helped many poor people receive medical attention that they would not previously have been able to afford... including her own mother (who has had open heart surgery in Khon Kaen). No matter that the system is under-funded and doctors are fleeing the public system in droves... the reality for her is that her mother lives because of Thaksin.

I'm torn two ways... my western upbringing is shocked by the utter corruption and deceit of the man and his family, but my time spent here in Thailand has taught me that if he hadn't done it, somebody else would have.

Is he good for Thailand or not?

An open discussion/debate... what do you think?

Hello Jai Dee.

You've made an interesting introduction to this thread. I was fascinated by the eloquence and quality of the posting from the link. Was it written by a Thai or a farang? I think a farang correspondent from the USA.

Do I detect some devil's advocacy when you say that you think it's just an uproar by those who are jealous of Thaksin's success and that they didn't get their cut too?

As you know, I have lived and worked in Thailand for the last 13 years, work that involved me directly with some Thai Governments of yesteryear. Yes, Thailand has changed, and, in the eyes of a Farang, somethings are better and somethings are worse but we will never be able to assess the impact of these changes on the life of a Thai....because we are not even close to being anything like a Thai.

My farang-based experience of the Thai Governments of yesteryear and my expectations of Thai Goverments of the future is that the status quo will prevail. Corruption is part of the culture of Thailand, you see it everywhere, even down at street level. So, like you, my time in Thailand has taught me that if he hadn't done it, somebody else would have....and will do in the future.

I asked my Thai family about their feelings about Thaksin and they all said that they hoped he would return as PM. "Why?" I asked and their overall response was limited to "30 baht"! Many of my family, including my wife, benefited from this health care scheme too. So, you're right, this popularist policy worked but was it Thaksin or Thai Rak Thai who introduced this. OK, everyone is likely to say "But Thaksin is/was Thai Rak Thai". The point that I am making as a farang is that we will never know...and that's the way of it.

The writing was on the wall for Thaksin many weeks ago. He cost the people of Thailand, unnecessarily, 2 billion baht last Sunday. Although I am not convinced, not by a long chalk, that Chamrong, Sondhi and the rest of the PAD played their part with integrity and true selfless purpose, Thaksin never had the guts or the experience as a statesman (which he was not) to accept his inevitable and imminent demise.

The people of Thailand are better off without him but will Thailand's journey to democratic maturity be affected adversely by this political debacle. Absolutely, and the coming weeks will confirm this.

I'm torn two ways... my western upbringing is shocked by the utter corruption and deceit of the man and his family, but my time spent here in Thailand has taught me that if he hadn't done it, somebody else would have.

Is he good for Thailand or not?

Jai Dee~

The difference is Taksin came into office already rich so people thought good, we now have a guy that won't rip us off as bad since he's already a millionaire. There lies the crux of the people's disappointment and now rejection. Taksin got too greedy but the point I want to make is the idea if he hadn't corrupted someone else would have - is a false argument.

For example, my province of Suphanburi. Ex-PM Barnham did more for Suphan than any ten PM's have done for their provinces. Was Barnham corrupt? Depends on your definition of corruption. We all know Taksin meets everyone's criteria of a corrupt leader i.e. taxes he did not pay, offshore accounts, football clubs in the UK - the list goes on.

Your last question re is he good for Thailand? In the final analysis, no...

I'm torn two ways... my western upbringing is shocked by the utter corruption and deceit of the man and his family, but my time spent here in Thailand has taught me that if he hadn't done it, somebody else would have.

Is he good for Thailand or not?

Jai Dee~

The difference is Taksin came into office already rich so people thought good, we now have a guy that won't rip us off as bad since he's already a millionaire. There lies the crux of the people's disappointment and now rejection. Taksin got too greedy but the point I want to make is the idea if he hadn't corrupted someone else would have - is a false argument.

For example, my province of Suphanburi. Ex-PM Barnham did more for Suphan than any ten PM's have done for their provinces. Was Barnham corrupt? Depends on your definition of corruption. We all know Taksin meets everyone's criteria of a corrupt leader i.e. taxes he did not pay, offshore accounts, football clubs in the UK - the list goes on.

Your last question re is he good for Thailand? In the final analysis, no...

Taxes he did not pay? don't you mean that he worked it legally so he would not have to pay taxes.He did what any business man would have done.In fact, I would have been disapointed if he didn't.

"is he good for Thailand or not?"...

It's like black-and-white and therefore not so easy to answer.

My guess however is that he will be back, one way or another.

The Thai majority will forgive and forget and if he will be back he will be stronger and better for the country than he ever was.

I think he's the type of man that wishes to be remembered for the good he did...not for the bad, and that will be an enormous challenge for him.

It's about power and narcistic behaviour; it's in his blood.

Time will tell.

LaoPo

I find it hard to take a real stand on the political situation here. I am not a Thai citizen, I can't vote and I can't make any real difference regardless of who is in power.

If someone else was the PM over the last couple of years, we would probably still be having these discussions, only the finer details would be different.

Like many leaders world-wide, PM Thaksin has done some good for the country, and has done things that have harmed the country. There are people that like him, and people that hate him.

My impression is that the PM tried to run the country the way a successful CEO would run a company. Unfortunately, running a company doesn't usually require the same tact and diplomacy that running a country does.

His seeming inability to handle criticism, and his attempts to curtail the media, raise the scary spectre of a man who is willing to stop at nothing to achieve his goals. Left unchecked, he could have easily returned the country to the dark days of defacto dictatorships and military coups.

Will the country be better off with him gone ? Only time will tell, as no one can predict the future. Like the old saying goes, Better the Devil you know. Who ever replaces him could turn out to be worse.

i dont think we have seen the end of thaksin , he will most likely be back , in fact i dont think he will really go away.

his constant moving of the goalposts of policy to benefit his business and his cronies is par for the course in thai politics , its hard to accept by westerners ,( although the british government is this week embroiled in its own corruption scandal of favours for donations) , but thats how things are done here at the moment.

i've read his biography , and i dont like the man , but he is no worse than any of the other bastards that rise to the top in this country through secret deals and backhanders.

the events of the past weeks have been pure farce , he was elected by a landslide majority , and when eventually the noise of the opposition and the protests got too loud , he did the right thing and called an election , if the opposition felt they had a chance to oust him fairly they should have fielded their candidates and given the people a real choice , by not putting up candidates they lost all credibility in my book , it led to the trt paying bogus parties to contest the seats and all kinds of conniving by the election watchdog committee to get those candidates legalised , it all turned into a bizarre farce that would have even looked out of place in one of those central african states in the 1950's run by a bunch of despots.

many countries are ill served by their politicians , but few countries have been so ill served for so long by such a collection of greedy self serving irresponsible ego maniacs that have made up the majority of politicians in this country since democracy was introduced here.

one can only feel sorry for the long suffering population of this country.

thaksin is a charismatic leader who commands respect from the majority in this country , love him or hate him , he was elected , and he did more for thailand than many of his predecessors have , and as for what will follow , well t.i.t. and anything can and probably will happen , or not as the case may or may not be !!

I wrote this yesterday, but couldn't get access to ThaiVisa at the time....

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I don't think "jealous" is the right word. I knew Sondhi wanted revenge for Thaksin axing his TV show because Sondhi started to be critical of Thaksin. Were there underlying financial reasons for this criticism? Who knows...

Before the Thamasek selling Sondhi's anti-Thaksin movement had little to go on, mainly citing Thaksin's invasions of royal affairs, but still had considerable support. However, once the AIS sell-off was made public, this gave him the weapon he needed. The whole "Thaksin is selling Thailand" campaign got some real ground, whether you agree with the statement or not.

IMHO, what's made this situation considerably worse for Thaksin is his refusal to acknowledge any of the critics directly. Calling for an election, which turned out to be a complete sham, demonstrated the guys weaknesses - his stubbornness and arrogance, and eventually lead to his downfall.

When me and my gf went to the anti-Thaksin rally we were slightly worried about getting there, spurred on by the reports have harrasments by pro-Thaksin taxi drivers. We hailed a cab, jumped in and told the driver where we wanted to go. The driver didn't resist in any way and the journey began. On the way the driver started telling us how support for Thaksin had dropped completely amongst taxi drivers. He told us that of the estimated 100,000 taxis in Bangkok, only around 1,000 where behind Thaksin. Given that most taxi drivers hail from the areas which Thaksin has the strongest support, I personally read this as a huge change of opinion.

It's difficult to predict what will happen to TRT in the future. The only person with any level of competence seemed to be Thaksin. If whoever succeeds him isn't told what to say, where to go and how to do it 24/7, I'll predict there'll be an almighty cock up which could end up being the party's demise. Something on the scale of the Chiang Mai Night Safari VIP menu should be enough to do it

Now that Thaksin has 'removed' himself from his priministerial job, the PAD has achieved it's sole aim to oust Thaksin.....but, now they want an end to the TRT party...and then what next? They are continuing to plan demonstrations and will boycott by-elections now. What is up with these people, does anyone know what they really want? I think that their supporters have completely lost sight of their real cause now.

Now that Thaksin has 'removed' himself from his priministerial job, the PAD has achieved it's sole aim to oust Thaksin.....but, now they want an end to the TRT party...and then what next? They are continuing to plan demonstrations and will boycott by-elections now. What is up with these people, does anyone know what they really want? I think that their supporters have completely lost sight of their real cause now.

1. Is it really the PAD or...is it a personal vendetta ? from Sondhi?

2. Maybe they should rally for the 16 million voters to be put in exile... for good

Absurd.

LaoPo

What some of the more short-sighted posters in the news-section fail to comprehend is that many of us that opposes Thaksin would oppose anyone from the democratic party [or whatever] if [and they are] doing the same thing.

Being against one wrongdoing is not accepting the other.

For me, it's the opposite. I oppose all wrongdoings - and I have yet seen a political leader that is 'good'. It's more shades of gray in the area of 'less bad'.

Regarding the 30 baht scheme, a friends dad of my wife got poisioned and didn't recieve any help from any hospital at all. It's not economical viable to help a 50 year old alcoholic that ate the wrong fruits [that had been sprayed with strong pesticides and should be eaten by anyone] and promising a 30baht-'one-card-fixes-everything' isn't ecenomically sain for the goverment. It was another of their pure populistic solutions, and populistic is the enemy, alongside fascism and communism.

ahhhh screw it ....

Actually I think that at first Thaksin was pretty decent ... he had his issues but it didn't matter to me.

It was after last year's elections that I turned off him completely ... went from being a leader to being something far worse. Last years elections moved Thailand far away from being a democracy imho ...

So I see that has happened since as being a good thing (IN THE LONG RUN) still more bumps and damage to come.