This thread will either sink quickly like a rock on a predestined collision course with the depths of hel_l or it will ascend like a pillowy cloud to the enlightened galaxies.

So, I'm curious. Bedlam denizens possess, among other qualities, obvious intelligence. So what say you about . . . life? What do the members here really believe in? What is life supposedly about? What the <deleted> are we all doing here in the first place? And who the hel_l are we, really?

Is there a designed purpose to life and does our individuality retain continuity and existence beyond this world? Or is this existence just a cosmic bag of aimless stellar dust, and all of us merely the result of chaotically coalesced particles of molecular debris? Are we nothing more than a cruel joke, perpetrated by an imaginary superior being who exists only in the twisted recesses of our misbegotten cerebral grey matter? Are we the Frankenstein's created by what father if not the the most senseless and grandest universal idiot of the cosmos?

Rejecting the idea that we are all mental and physical miscreations of randomness then the flipside of the cosmic coin would mean that life has overall purpose. And that our entire existence somehow makes divine sense which perhaps we can grasp or not within our lifetimes.

Well, I guess the above serves up a few basic questions. Enough food for thought so far? Now, do the above questions inspire you and you find your mental cogs and gears whirring at speeds approaching that of light, or do you need to go find the oil can first?

Who says philosophy is boring, anyway? Not wid me it taint.

___________________________________________________________________

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.

Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

Takes me back to one of my philosophy courses, "Classical and Contemporary Metaphysics" and studying Immanuel Kant. It was one of two courses that I remember that truly impacts the mind and way of thinking, the other was abnormal psychology (intense course indeed).

---------------------------------------------------

"3. Kant's Copernican Revolution: Mind Making Nature

Kant's answer to the question is complicated, but his conclusion is that a number of synthetic a priori claims, like those from geometry and the natural sciences, are true because of the structure of the mind that knows them. "Every event must have a cause" cannot be proven by experience, but experience is impossible without it because it describes the way the mind must necessarily order its representations.

We can understand Kant's argument again by considering his predecessors. According to the Rationalist and Empiricist traditions, the mind is passive either because it finds itself possessing innate, well-formed ideas ready for analysis, or because it receives ideas of objects into a kind of empty theater, or blank slate.

Kant's crucial insight here is to argue that experience of a world as we have it is only possible if the mind provides a systematic structuring of its representations. This structuring is below the level of, or logically prior to, the mental representations that the Empiricists and Rationalists analyzed. Their epistemological and metaphysical theories could not adequately explain the sort of judgments or experience we have because they only considered the results of the mind's interaction with the world, not the nature of the mind's contribution.

Kant's methodological innovation was to employ what he calls a transcendental argument to prove synthetic a priori claims. Typically, a transcendental argument attempts to prove a conclusion about the necessary structure of knowledge on the basis of an incontrovertible mental act.

Kant argues in the Refutation of Material Idealism that "There are objects that exist in space and time outside of me," (B 274) which cannot be proven by a priori or a posteriori methods, is a necessary condition of the possibility of being aware of one's own existence. It would not be possible to be aware of myself as existing, he says, without presupposing the existing of something permanent outside of me to distinguish myself from. I am aware of myself as existing. Therefore, there is something permanent outside of me."

----------------------------------------

The last paragraph being the most pertinent on this topic.

Being a research scientist, I inherently keep an open mind about what is and what isn't even when (maybe especially) it can't be seen. I was brought up in an extremely religious enviornment but it burned me out (Southern Baptist then Nazarine, with a touch of Methodist). Being force fed most of my life I rebelled and would describe myself more as an agnostic with an open mind to all possibilites.

Studying philosophy certainly added a new dimension to my thinking, sometimes in conflict with the sciences and sometimes re-enforcing it. Makes me think of the 'Thread Killer' topic, this might just do it.

This thread will either sink quickly like a rock on a predestined collision course with the depths of hel_l or it will ascend like a pillowy cloud to the enlightened galaxies.

It will sink into a religious debate, like similar threads. Us against them. Nothing resolved as no one will be willing to listen to anything that might upset their entrenched beliefs.

So, I'm curious. Bedlam denizens possess, among other qualities, obvious intelligence. So what say you about . . . life? What do the members here really believe in? What is life supposedly about? What the <deleted> are we all doing here in the first place? And who the hel_l are we, really?

Obvious intelligence ? Where do you get that from ?

Cogito, ergo sum" ("I think, therefore I am") René Descartes.

Unfortunately, man often tend to think too much, in directions that serve little purpose. On the other hand, that excess thinking (and curiosity) has led to our evolution as a species.

Is there a designed purpose to life and does our individuality retain continuity and existence beyond this world? Or is this existence just a cosmic bag of aimless stellar dust, and all of us merely the result of chaotically coalesced particles of molecular debris? Are we nothing more than a cruel joke, perpetrated by an imaginary superior being who exists only in the twisted recesses of our misbegotten cerebral grey matter? Are we the Frankenstein's created by what father if not the the most senseless and grandest universal idiot of the cosmos?

Like I said, it quickly turns into a discussion on religion.

Rejecting the idea that we are all mental and physical miscreations of randomness then the flipside of the cosmic coin would mean that life has overall purpose.

And that our entire existence somehow makes divine sense which perhaps we can grasp or not within our lifetimes.

Never lose a holy curiosity.

Like I said, religion.

I have my own views on this matter naturally, just as other members have views that are diametrically opposed to mine. In some cases, we agree to disagree with each other. It is rare that the two sides ever agree with anything the other side has to say, regardless of the reams of evidence presented by both sides.

Most of the questions you have posed will be answered in time. We know so much more about ourselves and the world we live in, than we did even 100 years ago. We certainly know immense amounts more about those things than we did 2,000 years ago. Things that would have seen you executed for being a heretic/witch a couple hundred years ago, are now everyday, accepted knowledge.

What questions will be answered in the next 100 years ? What new questions will there be ?

I'll come back and let you know then !

For the whole of our lives we are constantly preparing for our inevitable death. Where do we go from there?

Is there and after life and if so, can we take our money with us?

The Romans gave it plenty of thought:

This essay was posted to the Nova Roma mailing list in response to a question about what Romans believed happened after death.

Written by Flavia Claudia - Nova Roma.

When you die ("you" being a good Roman of the Religio persuasion), you are escorted to the River Styx by spirits. There, you and the other recently life-challenged are met by Charon, the ferryman. A coin, an obolus, will have been placed in your former body's mouth to pay Charon (although an aurus gets you a better seat in the boat, some believed). This payment is not representative of money so much as of the relationship between god and man, acknowledging your debt to the gods and their protection and guidance to you.

On the other side of Styx, you will pass Cerberus, the three-headed watchdog belonging to Father Dis, god of the Underworld. Cerberus will be friendly — he only becomes UNfriendly when shades try to get OUT of the Underworld unauthorized.

You will go before the three judges, Minos, Rhadamanthos and Aeacus, who will ask you to account for your life. After you've made your accounting, you will be given the water of the River Lethe, the river of forgetfulness and one of five Rivers in the Underworld, which makes you forget your past life. You will be sent to the Elysian Fields (a version of paradise) if you've been a warrior or hero; The Plain of Asphodel, if you've been a good citizen, where you will continue to live a good life as a shade; or — if you've really offended the gods — to Tartarus, where you'll be punished by the Furies until your debt to society is paid. (There's no "eternal damnation" in the Roman underworld, although you can be there a pretty long time, depending on what you've done.) Your punishment depends on your crime.

Every once in a while, Dis or Persephone, the Queen of the Underworld, will reprieve a candidate for the entire process and send him or her back to live again, especially if the deceased was unjustly murdered. He is given the Water of Forgetfulness and sent back across the Styx, presumably with a treat for Cerberus! (This is where the old phrase, " a sop for Cerberus" comes from — a bribe.)

Dis, while he is God of the Underworld, is NOT the God of Death. He does not decide who lives and dies. Instead, this is determined by the Three Fates. However, Dis does dispatch the god of death, Mors or Thanatos, to do his duty. He also has some connection with Morpheus, god of dreams.

Interestingly, Dis Pater is the only god with no name. He is known by the name of his kingdom: Hades, Pluto, or Dis, all of which refer to the secret riches of the earth.

Makes me think of the 'Thread Killer' topic, this might just do it.

That observation, tywais, is astoundingly insightful! I do believe that you will have much in the way of life's truths to contribute to this thread!

For myself, I've never taken any official academic courses on philosophy. Maybe it was better so. But I believe explanations regarding our reality and who we are can be found in many places as they are not 'hidden' and beyond the reach of anyone who has the desire to know. In fact, I believe that the desire to know, the never-ending questioning, is precisely that which leads one to the answers. Answers do not come to those who do not ask, is the rule that I believe applies. On the other hand, to quote from another well known source, "Seek and ye shall find." I've believed since I was a little kid that there's an answer to every question, which is contrary to the religious precept that "only God knows."

The Albert Einstein quote I provided has particular meaning for me since I could not have stated more eloquently what I've felt my entire life. In fact, the awe I feel regarding the utter magnificence and grandeur of the structure of our reality increases exponentially the more I learn. And I have had a voracious appetite for understanding the mysteriousness of our little sphere of existence.

Fortunately, though, philosophy degrees are not a prerequisite to engaging in questioning conversation and debate. I could throw out a multitude of questions regarding the nature of reality and ourselves and every person on the globe would have his/her personal belief about it. And since much of this world can never be proven in physical terms then everyone is qualified to contribute. Respect for each other is the only ground rule for dialogueing. Which is very easy to accord another when one realizes that who we are is not our thoughts. Disrepecting the thought, therefore, is O.K.

You spelt "corner" wrong !

totster

This thread will either sink quickly like a rock on a predestined collision course with the depths of hel_l or it will ascend like a pillowy cloud to the enlightened galaxies.

It will sink into a religious debate, like similar threads. Us against them. Nothing resolved as no one will be willing to listen to anything that might upset their entrenched beliefs.

Perhaps, but then again perhaps not. Don't be so quick to think that things cannot be different now. Or is that an entrenched belief of yours???

So, I'm curious. Bedlam denizens possess, among other qualities, obvious intelligence. So what say you about . . . life? What do the members here really believe in? What is life supposedly about? What the <deleted> are we all doing here in the first place? And who the hel_l are we, really?

Obvious intelligence ? Where do you get that from ?

Cogito, ergo sum" ("I think, therefore I am") René Descartes.

Unfortunately, man often tend to think too much, in directions that serve little purpose. On the other hand, that excess thinking (and curiosity) has led to our evolution as a species.

No man thinks too much. The world either has purpose or it does not. There can be no grey area. And so the purpose of his direction may escape others, including himself. But where it may lead cannot always be immediately seen from the perspective of where one stands. In physical terms you can only see so far down any given road.

Is there a designed purpose to life and does our individuality retain continuity and existence beyond this world? Or is this existence just a cosmic bag of aimless stellar dust, and all of us merely the result of chaotically coalesced particles of molecular debris? Are we nothing more than a cruel joke, perpetrated by an imaginary superior being who exists only in the twisted recesses of our misbegotten cerebral grey matter? Are we the Frankenstein's created by what father if not the the most senseless and grandest universal idiot of the cosmos?

Like I said, it quickly turns into a discussion on religion.

The future is not dependent upon the past. The choices made in the present are what determine the future. I believe you can find an endless amount of examples which would prove that out.

Rejecting the idea that we are all mental and physical miscreations of randomness then the flipside of the cosmic coin would mean that life has overall purpose.

And that our entire existence somehow makes divine sense which perhaps we can grasp or not within our lifetimes.

Never lose a holy curiosity.

Like I said, religion.

To quote Einstein once again:

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941

You're obviously very wary of religion, and I don't blame you. I stay as far away from it as possible myself, for quite a few reasons. Not a problem, though.

I have my own views on this matter naturally, just as other members have views that are diametrically opposed to mine. In some cases, we agree to disagree with each other. It is rare that the two sides ever agree with anything the other side has to say, regardless of the reams of evidence presented by both sides.

Most of the questions you have posed will be answered in time.

Did you ever think that the answers may exist now? Or that they have always existed? Granted, one can only speculate what it would require to make them common knowledge, and when that might happen.

We know so much more about ourselves and the world we live in, than we did even 100 years ago. We certainly know immense amounts more about those things than we did 2,000 years ago. Things that would have seen you executed for being a heretic/witch a couple hundred years ago, are now everyday, accepted knowledge.

What questions will be answered in the next 100 years ? What new questions will there be ?

I'll come back and let you know then !

Not out of the realm of possibility . . .

You spelt "corner" wrong !

totster

Rightly did I wrong. And yet I wronged rightly. BTW, is spelt spelt spelled or is spelled spelled spelt???? You gotta wake up earlier in the morning, there, tots.

O.K., okay, okae, I'll quit making a head case outta everything I say. I promise.

I'm a simple person, I don't know what the word "denizen" means, although I consider myself to have some basic intelligence. I seldom think about life and what it is all about and, as far as cosmic bags go, I don't think I've met one yet although I've been told that many can be found in Soi 6.

My outlook on life can be summed up in the following song.....and my name ISN'T St. Brian!

OK, all together now...1,2,3...

Always look on the bright side of life. (Don't forget that whistle now)

Always look on the light side of life.

If life seems jolly rotten,

There's something you've forgotten,

And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing.

When you're feeling in the dumps,

Don't be silly chumps.

Just purse your lips and whistle. That's the thing.

And...

Always look on the bright side of life.

Always look on the right side of life.

For life is quite absurd

And death's the final word.

You must always face the curtain with a bow.

Forget about your sin.

Give the audience a grin.

Enjoy it. It's your last chance, anyhow.

So,...

Always look on the bright side of death,

Just before you draw your terminal breath.

Life's a piece of shit,

When you look at it.

Life's a laugh and death's a joke. It's true.

You'll see it's all a show.

Keep 'em laughing as you go.

Just remember that the last laugh is on you.

And...

Always look on the bright side of life.

Always look on the right side of life.

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Life's a piece of shit,

When you look at it.

My outlook on life can be summed up as in the previous phrase - at least till I came to Thailand!

And...

Always look on the bright side of life.

Always look on the right side of life.

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

Always look on the bright side of life!

O.K., got your philosophical stance pegged . . . a positive thinker.

You spelt "corner" wrong !

totster

Rightly did I wrong. And yet I wronged rightly. BTW, is spelt spelt spelled or is spelled spelled spelt???? You gotta wake up earlier in the morning, there, tots.

O.K., okay, okae, I'll quit making a head case outta everything I say. I promise.

It's "spelt"

totster

You spelt "corner" wrong !

totster

Rightly did I wrong. And yet I wronged rightly. BTW, is spelt spelt spelled or is spelled spelled spelt???? You gotta wake up earlier in the morning, there, tots.

O.K., okay, okae, I'll quit making a head case outta everything I say. I promise.

It's "spelt"

totster

Jeez, tots, how are we ever gonna come to understanding more heady issues when we can't even get past spelling 'spelled.' If I 'spelt' you, then I gave you a breather, which I'm not about to do on this issue.

Brits. Now there's definitely a segment of humanity that was the result of cosmic creation gone stark haywire.

Life's a piece of shit,

When you look at it.

My outlook on life can be summed up as in the previous phrase - at least till I came to Thailand!

Nah, you were just reborn and didn't realize it, UG.

This does not have to sink into religious debate. The op was asking for what we thought, not to out-do any one else’s views or beliefs.

I am not an orthodox Christian, nor do I have much time for organised religion, my views come from years of meditation and study - I like to think 'holistically' about why we exist and why we are here and what the ultimate purpose is.

So, let me (briefly) answer some of the op questions.

The ultimate purpose of God is that he will be glorified; the earth will be full of the knowledge of the glory of God.

Why are we here? We have the choice to be part of the glorifying of God. We can live for ever in a restored Edenic state, where there will be no more pain nor sorrow nor death.

What happens at death? When we are born we are given life, this is the same life giving force that is in all living things. When we die - that's it, we are dead, no conscious existence after death until the Lord Jesus returns and we are resurrected to live again.

So my focus for life is on the Kingdom of God, which I believe will soon be established, and the saving name of the Lord Jesus Christ, soon to return in glory to establish that kingdom.

I have tried to be brief, I have avoided quoting scripture, also for brevity. Obviously it is far more detailed than I have stated but this is the ultimate answer to the questions raised.

Everyday above ground is a good day.

For lazy people this thread could turn into Fortune Cookie Corner.

One concept I've always had trouble with is infinity,

The chicken and the egg, the child that incessantly rebuts but why after every explanation, and legitimately so.

Living in the finite, a reality that on a cursory level can be measured, weighed, quantified, touched and held, then it's all thrown out the window when you hear the universe is infinite, (they build larger telescopes, what do they see, more stars,),

Cause and Effect:

A creates B, B creates C, C creates ..., excuse me, what created A again, I missed that part,

for the last time, A always was, yeah, but something, some effect had to create A, something can not come from nothing ?...,

Theoretical spaceship:

Unlimited fuel, unlimited lifespan, eventually I'll come to the edge of universe, no you won't, but why ?, because it's infinite, but why ?, because it just is, but why?, because I said so, now go to bed,

<snip>

So my focus for life is on the Kingdom of God, which I believe will soon be established, and the saving name of the Lord Jesus Christ, soon to return in glory to establish that kingdom.

I have tried to be brief, I have avoided quoting scripture, also for brevity. Obviously it is far more detailed than I have stated but this is the ultimate answer to the questions raised.

Well, Kerry's prediction came true . . . this thread has just degenerated into a religious rant.

Makes me think of the 'Thread Killer' topic, this might just do it.

No, tywais, I think suegha just provided the "Thread Killer."

________________________________________________________

Admittedly, a part of me insists on forever joking around. So forgive me, suegha, if I used you as the butt end of my humour. But, for one, I enjoy taking the seriousness out of situations (boy, does that make for a perfect fit in Thai culture) since I don't believe there is much which is truly serious enough to sacrafice one's joy, and for another I would much rather put smiles on people's lips than frowns on their foreheads. The former I deem to have far greater value.

That being said, I'll relate a story in response to suegha's post in order to illustrate a point for those who take ancient scripture as the 'ultimate' authority, or The Last Word (yes, we had to work that thread in there, now didn't we?).

About a year ago someone tried to initiate a chat with me via Skype. While I generally hit the 'ignore' button in these cases I decided to accept this once. Lo and behold, the person on the other end was a young, male student in the middle east from an Islamic country. Now mind you, I had been raised under Catholicism and had long ago left it behind for many reasons, perhaps the foremost being that I did not accept the unquestioning nature of organized religion. And here I find myself dialoguing with a member of a religion which, perhaps, tolerates questioning of itself the least of all religions.

The kid was initially affable enough and I didn't at first know where he came from or who he was, although I could tell by his broken English that he was from elsewhere in the world. And then he asked me to 'teach' him. Odd question, but O.K., I thought to myself, what does he want to know? And I put that precise question to him. Well, the ensuing conversation eventually lead to him stating his belief in Mohammed. So I thought I'd have some fun and test his flexibilty of mind. None, and I mean none. No matter what rationales I would present him with he would invariably lead back to responses which were nothing more than mechanical recitals of the religious beliefs he had been taught to believe since he was an infant. Needless to say, we quickly arrived at a stalemate that could not, even on a cold day in hel_l, be broken.

The point here is that all religion, no matter which persuasion it may be of, demands an unquestioning faith. Since all people have been given rationale minds there are, then, those among us who are loathe to sacrafice this vital portion of our being to any religion. There are those among us who would much prefer to allow our questions a stay of execution long enough to perhaps hear an alternative answer, rather than hastily and perfunctorily laying them on the altar of religion to be vanquished forever.

Now, this is perhaps the most significant difference between folks who subscribe wholeheartedly, and especially fervently and zealously, to any given religion and to those who do not: some people love to question and pursue the search for their own answers, while others are of a bent to enthusiastically and willingly give themselves over to having the answers to all the conceivable questions that could possibly exist be given them on a holy platter so that they no longer have to think about anything for themselves.

What, may I ask, have you been given a rational mind for, then? Or access to thought? Religion requires it not, and a free mind can only act as a hindrance to following a prescribed, predetermined and extremely narrow path. I, myself, would never consider abdicating my responsibility to think and conclude for myself.

To simply aver that "It is written here" and just as easily expect that to be enough of an explanation to satisfy another's curiosity is . . . , well, it just ain't gonna happen . . . ever. Would any God, or supreme being, or whatever other meaningless name you choose to give it, summarily dam_n me to eternal hel_l because I choose to use this gift of mind that has been given me by this same entity? Is this not the definition of a setup, then? If there is an entity who has created us and this reality and all others, and I do believe there is, I find it hard to accept that it would possess narrow mindedness greater than ours, nor likely that it is into playing cosmic games along the lines of 'I Give Them The Answers, Let Me See What They Do With It,' nor do I believe that 'whatever it may be' is so insecure that it demands blind worship and adoration from every living creature it has created.

There is much, much more which can be said for religion, and I'll be the first to admit that it isn't all bad. But it's not my intention to turn this thread into a strict debate of religious beliefs versus all else. For there is much more. Trust me. I have more up my sleeve with this thread.

I think most people here know I am anti-religion. Having said that though, you can't discuss philosophy with out religion for religion has had an effect on the touughts that any society has produced. Much western philosophy is a response to religion.

The point here is that all religion, no matter which persuasion it may be of, demands an unquestioning faith.

I thought that Buddhism specifically didn't require unquestioning faith but continual questioning and investigation?

I think most people here know I am anti-religion. Having said that though, you can't discuss philosophy with out religion for religion has had an effect on the touughts that any society has produced. Much western philosophy is a response to religion.

Absolutely in agreement, Bops. I would add furthermore that religous concepts are ingrained within us, as individuals, much more deeply than we would care to realize. And, that they produce effects which, while me might have awareness of them, we never associate or trace back to their original religious based origins.

From my observations of people, and myself in particular, people are generally not aware of the complete contents of their minds. Inventory is rarely taken, ideas continue to accumulate, and we are left with a whole lot of old, unused and ill-fitting mental furniture which never gets disposed of as it should be. That's not to say that all religious concepts we have learned are worthless. In fact, I would admit that many of them speak from deeper portions of ourselves and have great value.

The point here is that all religion, no matter which persuasion it may be of, demands an unquestioning faith.

I thought that Buddhism specifically didn't require unquestioning faith but continual questioning and investigation?

Point well taken, endure, and I'm glad you brought it up. While proofing that post I realized after the edit time had elapsed that I wrongly qualified all religions as requiring blind faith. I don't know much about Buddhism and would like to know more, especially after living in Thailand, but perhaps it is one of the better ideolgies available. Any system of thought which promotes questioning and investigation is preferrable to me. In fact, if I had to choose a religion it would be Buddhism, and mainly for that reason among other aspects of it which I see to produce quite positive effects. But, I have read that it is not considered a religion per se. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: I'll add that I do believe Buddhism has it right in espousing reincarnation. I think heaven and hel_l are symbolisms and not literal 'places' that exist somewhere. I'm still open to my beliefs about how karma truly works, though.

One concept I've always had trouble with is infinity,

The chicken and the egg, the child that incessantly rebuts but why after every explanation, and legitimately so.

Living in the finite, a reality that on a cursory level can be measured, weighed, quantified, touched and held, then it's all thrown out the window when you hear the universe is infinite, (they build larger telescopes, what do they see, more stars,),

Cause and Effect:

A creates B, B creates C, C creates ..., excuse me, what created A again, I missed that part,

for the last time, A always was, yeah, but something, some effect had to create A, something can not come from nothing ?...,

Theoretical spaceship:

Unlimited fuel, unlimited lifespan, eventually I'll come to the edge of universe, no you won't, but why ?, because it's infinite, but why ?, because it just is, but why?, because I said so, now go to bed,

I agree, cobra. There are some concepts which seem to do nothing more than boggle the mind. Infinity is one of them. Infinity both in terms of space and time. I have heard that space is only as infinite as our perception of it. In other words, if we cannot perceive something then for all practical purposes it does not exist.

I have also heard that space and time are merely aspects of physical reality. That apart from this sphere of existence they really don't exist as such. I tend to agree from all of the evidence that's been presented to me. That would include precognitive dreams which I've had. If time truly existed strictly in linear fashion then precognition would necessarily be an impossibility.

But we talk here of possibly purely abstract concepts which may not have any practical meaning for us. (Or do they?) And if there seems to be no practical application of this knowledge then of what interest is it? While it may be fascinating to consider briefly it becomes a bore otherwise, for where can you go with it? At least for most, but not all, I believe.

Philosophy to me, however, is not meant to be an expressly dry and intellectual pursuit. It should have quite practical, and even profound, applications. It is to that extent that I pursue it for myself. Well, that and the fact that there is mesmerizing beauty to behold, too. So, it's makes for an enjoyable, rewarding, and vastly educational experience. But, oh, it does indeed have quite practical and profound applications.

Some interesting thoughts here. I thought the op was about what we thought without refuting anybody's views.

I hope that my thoughts did not qualify for 'religious rant'. However, to make the assumption that a person of any religious persuasion has an unquestioning faith is incorrect. All of my conclusions have resulted from a questioning faith! How else would I seek?

One ability that I believe is God given is our ability to ask these deeper questions, for what animal asks 'why are we here?' or what's it all about?'

Also, just to deal with the comment about 'organised religion', I agree, I am opposed to organised religion! What good has it ever done? I do believe that our capacity for abstract thought allows us a certain dominion which affords us the capacity for 'spirituality'. So when we ponder the bigger picture, we prove this capacity!

My biggest bug-bear is that people confuse the organised church/religion with our spirituality. No one can teach us the truth, we must find it for ourselves. I have found mine and I have total faith and happiness in what I believe. This does mean that I am constantly searching, for our journey to the truth ends in a destination. For me the destination is life everlasting in the kingdom of God.

No offence meant to any who hold opposing views.

This thread will be beyond most people. No one knows for sure anything about who we are or where we come from. There are countless theories written by numerous people. No one can say, with any amount of certainty, that any of those theories are accurate.

Some think humans were all created by God. Some think we evolved from monkeys. Some think we are the creation of an alien race of beings known as the Annunaki.

Who are we? I have no idea. All I know is that I am scared of death and like most people, I have a great fear of the unknown.

I don't know much about Buddhism and would like to know more, especially after living in Thailand, but perhaps it is one of the better ideolgies available.

You might try and get hold of 'The Heart of Buddhism' by Guy Claxton.

This thread will be beyond most people. No one knows for sure anything about who we are or where we come from. There are countless theories written by numerous people. No one can say, with any amount of certainty, that any of those theories are accurate.

Some think humans were all created by God. Some think we evolved from monkeys. Some think we are the creation of an alien race of beings known as the Annunaki.

Who are we? I have no idea. All I know is that I am scared of death and like most people, I have a great fear of the unknown.

I don't believe the subject matter of this thread is beyond anyone, TRIPxCORE. It would be like suggesting that, well . . . here we find ourselves ensconced in a physical form, a rational mind, and perceptive mechanisms with which to observe and function yet lacking the ability to perceive or understand ourselves or the position we happen to find ourselves in. I find that highly doubtful.

But I do agree that most don't know who we are or where we come from or where we go when we leave. And I can then understand how that would create just a wee bit of uncomfortableness for many at the prospect of moving on. To where, if anywhere? I have to admit I find it oddly humourous that these questions don't appear to have readily available answers to which we can all agree. Might there be a very good reason for it? I believe so.

As far as death is concerned I think that it's probably one of the most misunderstood events of our existence. As we observe our environment and contemplate our existence I think it's wholly evident that it's the result of a masterful design. Death is part of that design and there are reasons for it. For myself the reasons for death are extremely evident. Take my word for it or not, but I don't think it's anything to fear.

I don't know much about Buddhism and would like to know more, especially after living in Thailand, but perhaps it is one of the better ideolgies available.

You might try and get hold of 'The Heart of Buddhism' by Guy Claxton.

Thanks, endure. I'll check it out. BTW, do you subscribe to Buddhism, or any part of it?

Brits. Now there's definitely a segment of humanity that was the result of cosmic creation gone stark haywire.

Yanks... one has to wonder if they are actually from this planet...

totster

Brits. Now there's definitely a segment of humanity that was the result of cosmic creation gone stark haywire.

Yanks... one has to wonder if they are actually from this planet...

totster

Hmmmm, you might be right there, tots. Didn't they come from the heavens to be the world saviours?? But only ended up being universal cops??