Random RCBO Trip...What Next?

[martynsnowmans]

i,m going to have to start using my british natwest atm card to withdraw cash

as i no long return to u.k so unable to bring cash back with me , can any1

tell me which thai banks give the best rate or are they all the same if using

u.k bank card . thanks for any help .

[i claudius]

open a metro bank account ,no charges when you withdraw money abroad ,then use an aeon machine ,again no charges for using your card and a good rate , using a natwest card you incure charges and if you use any other macine rather than an aeon ,charged by them ,i have been using the metro card for two years now ,no problem ,but only allowed to withdraw 300 pounds a day. hope that helps.

Edited August 10, 2013 by i claudius

[martynsnowmans]

open a metro bank account ,no charges when you withdraw money abroad ,then use an aeon machine ,again no charges for using your card and a good rate , using a natwest card you incure charges and if you use any other macine rather than an aeon ,charged by them ,i have been using the metro card for two years now ,no problem ,but only allowed to withdraw 300 pounds a day. hope that helps.

thanks for that but would i have to be in the u.k to open a metro account ?

i,ve never heard of metro bank , or aeon atm machines .

[infinity11]

I thought i was so smart once,

i went to four machines to check balance,

i wanted to see which had the best rate.

Two did not work (TIT) and two gave the same exact amount in TB.

(different thai banks)

[puck2]

To OP:

I assume you'll use a VISA- or MASTER-card. Then forget the "best rate from atm". With the VISA-card you get the same exchange rate (on the same day at the same time) everywhere here in Thailand. The same is valid for a MASTER-card.

But all Thai Banks charge an ATM-fee, 150 THB for a VISA-card withdrawel and now 180 THB for a MASTER-card withdrawel. Only AEON doesn't charge this fee (150 re 180 THB).

Furthermore, the net booking on your account depends on the fees of your card issuing bank in your home country. This fee may be the most expensive - up to 3-4%, but a few don't charge any.

Edited August 10, 2013 by puck2

[nycjoe]

I take my passport and visa or MasterCard to the bank directly. They give me a good rate and do not charge a fee. Bangkok bank and almost all will do it for you.

[Pib]

This post I made in a similar thread may help.

[kentb21]

For the best ATM and exchange rates from all banks in Thailand, from any currency, regularly updated throughout the day check out

http://bankexchangerates.daytodaydata.net/default.aspx

[Pib]

Where it says select TT Rate for the ATM rate, they only say that because a bank TT Buying Rate (use for incoming wire transfers) will be pretty close to the actual Visa/MasterCard rate...plus or minus a few stang....maybe up to 0.25 baht difference on days when the FX market is volatile....or at least that is what I have noticed. And for a person who uses several of his no foreign transaction Visa fee debit cards all the time in Thai bank ATMs...usually just AEON ATM to avoid the Thai bank foreign card fee of Bt150/Bt180...I get the exact Visa exchange rate. For folks with no foreign transaction fee debit cards they will get the MasterCard exchange rate...now some banks who provide a no foreign transaction fee MasterCard may still allow a MC 0.2% currency exchange fee to pass through to the customer instead of absorbing it....then of course it really not a no foreign transaction fee card because the card issuing bank did allow a pass-thru fee instead of absorbing it....but its still pretty close to a no foreign transaction fee card. It may also apply to Visa cards but in the 0.15% ball park...all depends on what your card-issuing bank passes-thru or charges you.

But using above site will get you pretty close to the no-fee Visa/MasterCard exchange rate if a person don't want to use the Visa/MasterCard exchange rate pages to determine the actual rate. And remember, never accept an ATM's offer to process in your home currency...that's DCC in disguise...and you will get a several percent lower rate.

If you want to see an example of how much lower the DCC rate could be, go to this Siam Commercial Bank Exhange Rate page, take a look at the TT Buying Rate for your currency of interest (remember the TT Buying Rate will be close to the Visa/MasterCard exchange rate) then go to the bottom of the page and click on the link titled "For Credit Card (Dynamic Currency Conversion) and see how many percent that rate is below the TT Buying Rate. Although the link says its for credit card DCC it probably applies to a debit card DCC transaction also if by chance the ATM does offer a DCC rate. DCC bad, very bad for the customer; DCC good, very good for the bank/merchant. And remember, you need to know what, if any, foreign transaction fee(s) your card issuing bank applies to your debit or credit card....that is the card-issuing bank applying a fee which has the effect of giving you a lower exchange rate when the actual charge(s) hit your home country bank acccount; not Visa/MasterCard or the local Thai bank giving your a crappy exchange rate.

[Pinot]

For the best ATM and exchange rates from all banks in Thailand, from any currency, regularly updated throughout the day check out

http://bankexchangerates.daytodaydata.net/default.aspx

This is the site. Set the type of currency and the "TT" rate will get you exactly what the rate is at the various banks ATM rate of exchange. The interesting thing is that there is no one "go to" best bank bank as the banks are constantly changing. If you want to save a few bucks check the site above just before you head to the ATMs. Sometimes there are significant differences.

For Americans Charles Schwab Bank (part of the brokerage company) refunds ATM fees. That saves me $20-25 a month. Other ATM fee free cards are available as discussed on TV.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Pinot

[infinity11]

For the best ATM and exchange rates from all banks in Thailand, from any currency, regularly updated throughout the day check out

http://bankexchangerates.daytodaydata.net/default.aspx

This is the site. Set the type of currency and the "TT" rate will get you exactly what the rate is at the various banks ATM rate of exchange. The interesting thing is that there is no one "go to" best bank bank as the banks are constantly changing. If you want to save a few bucks check the site above just before you head to the ATMs. Sometimes there are significant differences.

For Americans Charles Schwab Bank (part of the brokerage company) refunds ATM fees. That saves me $20-25 a month. Other ATM fee free cards are available as discussed on TV.

I read somewhere else about this, maybe it was you.

It inspired me to call my bank and ask for a refund, they gave me a little to my surprise, six months of fees back.

So if it WAS you, thank you, i owe you a drink.

[JimGant]

This is the site. Set the type of currency and the "TT" rate will get you exactly what the rate is at the various banks ATM rate of exchange.

Nope. The rate you'll get is the once every 24 hours rate you'll find on the Visa or MC websites -- per Pib's reply, above. The banks/ATM owners have no influence over this rate, unless they go the DCC route.

And as for "exactly," the rate you'll get (after stripping out any fees charged by the networks and issuing banks) will be within two decimal places of the advertised rate for that day by Visa or MC. If this isn't your experience, you're not accounting for all the fees associated with your card.

The Visa rate is posted 12:01AM New York time, and MC posts their rate about 12 hours later. So, with ATM transactions near real time, a pull with your Visa ATM card in the afternoon of, say, Aug 14th, will get you the Visa posted rate for Aug 14th. For MC in the same Aug 14th afternoon, you'll get their posted rate for Aug 13th -- again, because their projected rate lags Visa's, and posts late in the day Thai time.

Bringing up the http://bankexchangerates.daytodaydata.net/default.aspx site, I get TT rates for Aug 13th, at 6:14 PM. The highest TT rate is Gov't Savings, at 31.15 baht to the US dollar; and the lowest rate is Bangkok Bank, with a buying TT rate of 31.08.

If I stuck my US issued Visa ATM card into a Bangkok Bank ATM machine, I'd have realized 31.153 baht at 6:14 PM (before fees) -- because 31.153 is the Visa advertised rate for that time frame. I would NOT receive the Bangkok Bank TT rate of 31.08.

And 31.153 would be my realized rate at all ATM machines in Thailand during this Visa 24 hour window (again, before fees) -- unless those machines are practicing DCC (Bank of Ayudhya and Krueng Thai are two that come to mind)

And for MC -- I'd have gotten their 12 Aug advertised rate of 30.978 at 6:14 PM. (Their 13 Aug rate doesn't get much better, at 31.022 -- with Visa averaging about 16 satang better than MC, as it has the past several years).

Comparing FX rates between banks is useful -- just not exactly for what to expect from their ATM machines.

[Pib]

Yea, the times I have used my U.S. Visa debit cards to get money from an AEON ATM or a few times from Thai bank ATMs (I don't use Thai bank ATMs often due to the Bt150 Visa foreign card fee they charge) I got the Visa exchange rate to the second or third decimal point. Or when I use my U.S. MasterCard credit card for purchases I get the MasterCard exchange rate.

It's hard to find any reference on a bank web site as to what exchange rate they give at their ATMs, except maybe their DCC rate...I think this is because they generally follow the Visa/MasterCard/AmEx exchange rate (depending on which card you are using) and maybe don't want to get in the situation of responding to customers complaints that their exchange rate may sometimes or most of the time be lower than the card network exchange rates, especially since the Visa exchange rate usually beat Thai bank TT Buying Rate by a few stang.

Heck, usually a Thai bank's "credit card" will use the Visa/MasterCard exchange rate not the Thai bank's rate....for example see this Bangkok Bank link where show you how to check the latest Bangkok Bank Visa or MasterCard exchange rate. How do they do it? They send you to the Visa/MasterCard exchange rate websites.

And this KrungThai Bank webpage that talks about exchange rates at its ATMs....its vague/weasel words basically say you got the choice of their DCC rate or the MasterCard rate. I expect they are referring to their MasterCard logo cards. With a Visa card I expect you would be offered their DCC rate or the Visa rate. Remember, DCC bad, very bad for the customer; DCC good, very good for the bank/merchant---don't accept DCC for an ATM cash withdrawal or credit/debit card purchase.

But using the TT Buying Rate will definitely get you very close to the Visa/MasterCard exchange simply because they are always very close (like plus or minus approx. 0.25 baht/USD), but if a person wants the exact rate they will get they need to look at the Visa/MasterCard exchange rate pages and the crank in any foreign transaction fee(s) the card-issuing bank may apply.

[JimGant]

its vague/weasel words basically say you got the choice of their DCC rate or the MasterCard rate

Pib, it's even more weasel worded than that -- they equate DCC to their "impressive exchange rate." Hadn't realized the Thai word for "impressive" translates into "bend over."

With a Visa card I expect you would be offered their DCC rate or the Visa rate

Visa has opted out of applying DCC to ATM transactions. The only exception is Visa debit/ATM cards issued in countries using the Euro. Probably not cost effective/too confusing for Krungthai to offer Visa DCC to only a small segment of card holders.

By the way, Krungthai and Bank of Ayudhya are the only banks I specifically know of using DCC for ATM transactions. But I recall there's a third one too (and maybe more....). Any ideas?

Reference for Visa's atm relationship to DCC is found at the bottom of this link:

https://www.six-payment-services.com/downloadcenter/110005902_DS_Dynamic_Currency_Conversion_ATMs_INT_EN_opt.pdf

And this quote says Krungthai couldn't even offer the option to Visa Europe card holders, as the option is only available in Europe:

Notes:

^*Visa currently allows DCC at ATMs only in its Visa EU region on Visa EU issued cards. MasterCard allows DCC at ATMs globally on all MasterCard issued cards.

Edited August 14, 2013 by JimGant

[Pib]

Jim,

That link you provided above is very informative and also "hilarious "in how they try to make DCC sound like a good thing for the customer...some of the best weasel words I've seen in a long time. And I just can't believe whoever wrote the "Advantages to the ATM Customer" points did so with a straight face and probably had to pray for forgiveness immediately after writing them.

[Pinot]

This is the site. Set the type of currency and the "TT" rate will get you exactly what the rate is at the various banks ATM rate of exchange.

Nope. The rate you'll get is the once every 24 hours rate you'll find on the Visa or MC websites -- per Pib's reply, above. The banks/ATM owners have no influence over this rate, unless they go the DCC route.

And as for "exactly," the rate you'll get (after stripping out any fees charged by the networks and issuing banks) will be within two decimal places of the advertised rate for that day by Visa or MC. If this isn't your experience, you're not accounting for all the fees associated with your card.

The Visa rate is posted 12:01AM New York time, and MC posts their rate about 12 hours later. So, with ATM transactions near real time, a pull with your Visa ATM card in the afternoon of, say, Aug 14th, will get you the Visa posted rate for Aug 14th. For MC in the same Aug 14th afternoon, you'll get their posted rate for Aug 13th -- again, because their projected rate lags Visa's, and posts late in the day Thai time.

Bringing up the http://bankexchangerates.daytodaydata.net/default.aspx site, I get TT rates for Aug 13th, at 6:14 PM. The highest TT rate is Gov't Savings, at 31.15 baht to the US dollar; and the lowest rate is Bangkok Bank, with a buying TT rate of 31.08.

If I stuck my US issued Visa ATM card into a Bangkok Bank ATM machine, I'd have realized 31.153 baht at 6:14 PM (before fees) -- because 31.153 is the Visa advertised rate for that time frame. I would NOT receive the Bangkok Bank TT rate of 31.08.

And 31.153 would be my realized rate at all ATM machines in Thailand during this Visa 24 hour window (again, before fees) -- unless those machines are practicing DCC (Bank of Ayudhya and Krueng Thai are two that come to mind)

And for MC -- I'd have gotten their 12 Aug advertised rate of 30.978 at 6:14 PM. (Their 13 Aug rate doesn't get much better, at 31.022 -- with Visa averaging about 16 satang better than MC, as it has the past several years).

Comparing FX rates between banks is useful -- just not exactly for what to expect from their ATM machines.

Yup! I don't know what you're doing. I went to Bangkok Bank yesterday for 20000 baht. The rate from the website was 31.84/USD. That's what I got after adding back in the 150 baht fee. The rate at the various banks change throughout the day. The website will tell you exactly what the rate is. Exactly.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Pinot

[JimGant]

The rate at the various banks change throughout the day. The website will tell you exactly what the rate is. Exactly.

For Visa or MC ATM cards, the rate changes just once a day. And this rate is closely approximated by the TT rate -- but usually not exactly. And the TT rate can -- and usually does -- change throughout the day. But, again, not the Visa or MC rate. You just happened to pull the lever when the approximated rates were the same.

However, you got Visa's weekend rate of 31.84 (check its site, below, for 8/24 and 8/25 -- you'll need to take the reciprocal)

http://usa.visa.com/personal/using_visa/consumer_ex_results_us.jsp

Now, when I go to http://bankexchanger...et/default.aspx , I get the page dated 8/25/17:51 -- but TT rates don't update on the weekend, so the rates I get are for Friday, Aug 23rd. And, yep, there's your Bangkok Bank TT rate of 31.84

For ATM rates, select the TT currency type.The date & time now is 2013-08-25 17:51:41 GMT

Bangkok Bank Thailand 2013-08-23 01:30 USD THB 31.84

Thanachart Bank Thailand 2013-08-23 10:08 USD THB 31.82

TMB Thailand 2013-08-23 09:52 USD THB 31.82

Siam CB Thailand 2013-08-23 10:25 USD THB 31.81

GSB Thailand 2013-08-23 09:00 USD THB 31.81

Kasikorn Bank Thailand 2013-08-23 08:44 USD THB 31.81

UOB Thailand 2013-08-22 17:00 USD THB 31.81

Krung Thai Bank Thailand 2013-08-23 11:04 USD THB 31.8

Bank of Ayudhya Thailand 2013-08-23 09:51 USD THB 31.78

Percentage difference between minimum and maximum exchange rates above = 0.19%

Average bank exchange rate from data above: 1 USD = 31.8111111 THB

But, had you used the ATM machines at the other banks mentioned, you'd still have gotten Visa's weekend rate of 31.84 -- although by your rationale, you would have gotten anything *but* 31.84, according to the above chart's advertised TT rate . Just by coincidence, Bangkok Bank's TT rate for Friday mimicked Visa's weekend rate (and, if you go to Visa's Aug 23 rate, you'll see that you would have gotten 31.86 for a Friday pull at a Bangkok Bank ATM machine -- not Bangkok Bank's advertised 31.84).

For ATM rates, select the TT currency type

I guess it would be too confusing if the bankexchanger site tried to explain not exactly in reference to this phrase.

[jacnl2000]

At some places the logic applied locally is quite difficult to understand. First, take a look at this chart:

Was charged € 503,41 for BHT 20.000 at the 20th of August 2013 ( withdrawal at the 16th of August 2013 13:07:04 SCB/SAMUTPRAK ATM 006 540204 ) which is equivalent to approx. 39.729 BHT per EURO, and, that is, in my opinion, too much. So, I do not trust the firmware inside these handy ATM machines anymore, so immediately adjusted my behavior accordingly.

[Pib]

At some places the logic applied locally is quite difficult to understand. First, take a look at this chart:

Was charged 503,41 for BHT 20.000 at the 20th of August 2013 ( withdrawal at the 16th of August 2013 13:07:04 SCB/SAMUTPRAK ATM 006 540204 ) which is equivalent to approx. 39.729 BHT per EURO, and, that is, in my opinion, too much. So, I do not trust the firmware inside these handy ATM machines anymore, so immediately adjusted my behavior accordingly.

Visa and MasterCard exchange rates vary a little from each but are always real close to each other and you didn't mention which kind of card you have. Don't know where your chart is from....appears to just be a FOREX chart representing currency trades for BIG, BIG amounts of currency...while such charts are fine to show currency trends that's not the exchange rate you get at banks, ATMs, etc...the exchange rate will be a little lower.

But the rate you mentioned is approx. 4% lower than Visa or MasterCard exchange rate for 16 Aug 13. Expect your card has a "foreign transaction fee" (and maybe a flat fee also) of around 4%...or since Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) transactions usually have an approx. 4% lower exchange rate I hope you didn't unknowingly accept/select a DCC ATM withdrawal due to warm fuzzy/vague wording used by the ATM (vague/warm, fuzzy wording that allowed the bank to make a nice little profit off you using a local bank/different exchange rate other than the Visa/MasterCard exchange rate). I expect your home country card-issuing bank has a healthy foreign transaction fee on your card and/or you did a DCC withdrawal; don't blame the local Thai ATM except maybe for vague DCC wording if that is what happened...but usually it's just because your card has a foreign transaction fee attached to it making a nice little profit for the home country "card-issuing" bank.

[NoshowJones]

open a metro bank account ,no charges when you withdraw money abroad ,then use an aeon machine ,again no charges for using your card and a good rate , using a natwest card you incure charges and if you use any other macine rather than an aeon ,charged by them ,i have been using the metro card for two years now ,no problem ,but only allowed to withdraw 300 pounds a day. hope that helps.

thanks for that but would i have to be in the u.k to open a metro account ?

i,ve never heard of metro bank , or aeon atm machines .

I would want to know the answer to that to Marty, as far as I know they only have branches in the london area.

[CharlieH]

Yes, Metro Banks are all within the M25 I believe.

AEON machines can be found in many places, they are actually Japanese.

The best method for slightly larger amounts and to avoid running regularly to an ATM, is to take your card into a bank with your passport and ask them to do it manually, no ATM fee that why either.

Edited October 11, 2013 by CharlieH

[jacnl2000]

Where it says select TT Rate for the ATM rate, they only say that because a bank TT Buying Rate (use for incoming wire transfers) will be pretty close to the actual Visa/MasterCard rate...plus or minus a few stang....maybe up to 0.25 baht difference on days when the FX market is volatile....or at least that is what I have noticed. And for a person who uses several of his no foreign transaction Visa fee debit cards all the time in Thai bank ATMs...usually just AEON ATM to avoid the Thai bank foreign card fee of Bt150/Bt180...I get the exact Visa exchange rate. For folks with no foreign transaction fee debit cards they will get the MasterCard exchange rate...now some banks who provide a no foreign transaction fee MasterCard may still allow a MC 0.2% currency exchange fee to pass through to the customer instead of absorbing it....then of course it really not a no foreign transaction fee card because the card issuing bank did allow a pass-thru fee instead of absorbing it....but its still pretty close to a no foreign transaction fee card. It may also apply to Visa cards but in the 0.15% ball park...all depends on what your card-issuing bank passes-thru or charges you.

But using above site will get you pretty close to the no-fee Visa/MasterCard exchange rate if a person don't want to use the Visa/MasterCard exchange rate pages to determine the actual rate. And remember, never accept an ATM's offer to process in your home currency...that's DCC in disguise...and you will get a several percent lower rate.

If you want to see an example of how much lower the DCC rate could be, go to this Siam Commercial Bank Exhange Rate page, take a look at the TT Buying Rate for your currency of interest (remember the TT Buying Rate will be close to the Visa/MasterCard exchange rate) then go to the bottom of the page and click on the link titled "For Credit Card (Dynamic Currency Conversion) and see how many percent that rate is below the TT Buying Rate. Although the link says its for credit card DCC it probably applies to a debit card DCC transaction also if by chance the ATM does offer a DCC rate. DCC bad, very bad for the customer; DCC good, very good for the bank/merchant. And remember, you need to know what, if any, foreign transaction fee(s) your card issuing bank applies to your debit or credit card....that is the card-issuing bank applying a fee which has the effect of giving you a lower exchange rate when the actual charge(s) hit your home country bank acccount; not Visa/MasterCard or the local Thai bank giving your a crappy exchange rate.

Thank you for your explanation ( and time ).

In this case I used a Dutch ING MasterCard.

Went to this Siam Commercial Bank Exchange Rate internet page and found a rate of 40.37012 for today, a value, which is not on the chart I have shown, and, very different from the actual rate of today found on many internet sites, mentioned on the right side of that same chart. That explains the relative large difference I noticed for the very first time in August 2013.

Decided not to use ATM machines anymore as long as apparently other more cheap methods of money transfer exist elsewhere which quite strangely involve more manual labor. It'll require planning a[ ]head which is always better than to loose one ;-)

[Pib]

To determine what rate you will get just go to the MC exchange rate webpage and then substract any foreign transaction fee(s) applicable to your card...some cards do charge a fee but some don't...all depends on your "card-issuing bank." And don't forget the foriegn card fee of Bt180 for Mastercard (Bt150 for foriegn Visa cards) when using a Thai bank ATM....better to use an AEON ATM which does not charge the fee. That Bt180 fee may have been part of the reason your effective exchange rate was low unless that fee showed up as a separate charge hitting your account.

Sent from my Onda V971 tablet