A solution to Dead Beat Foreigners skipping out on their Health Insurance.

[Soutpeel]

Is this a big problem here? Are bills being run up by tourists? Or long-stay (non-Imm) residents?

does it matter ?....neither are Thai PR's or citizens and in fact from a risk point of view as regards the typical farang demographic in Thailand, its actually the "residents" who run the risk of having large medical bills they cant pay for

[historyprof]

Swiss

FYI, the U.S. does NOT require health insurance to obtain a tourist visa.

Mac

I know that... but I also know from personal experience that US hospitals will NOT treat you until you have paid upfront for the treatment... and that is the big difference, in Thailand you DO get treatment before you have shown money...

Not entirely accurate. With few exceptions, even private hospitals must stabilize any person in a medical emergency. That goes 100% for any government facility.

correct, but based on a documentry I saw, at certain hospitals in the US, once the patient was stable and couldnt pay, they were kicking them out the hospital, putting them in taxi's or dropping them off at bus stops...as not to incurr further costs

Try google, "The dead of night: 8,000 patients a week kicked out of hospital from 11pm to 6am"

[lomatopo]

Is this a big problem here? Are bills being run up by tourists? Or long-stay (non-Imm) residents?

does it matter ?....neither are Thai PR's or citizens and in fact from a risk point of view as regards the typical farang demographic in Thailand, its actually the "residents" who run the risk of having large medical bills they cant pay for

I was hoping to understand both the scope of the problem, and the cause(s), so then I could offer targeted fees for the offending demographic. I realize that trying to understand an issue before spouting off is frowned upon here on ThaiVisa - as is proper grammar - but old habits die hard.

[patongphil]

Swiss

FYI, the U.S. does NOT require health insurance to obtain a tourist visa.

Mac

I know that... but I also know from personal experience that US hospitals will NOT treat you until you have paid upfront for the treatment... and that is the big difference, in Thailand you DO get treatment before you have shown money...

absolutely wrong for the US and deadly wrong for Thailand, check your fact first!

I had a pretty bad motorbike accident along with my TGf at the time. We were both taken in an ambulance and treated at the local hospital. Once stabilised my TGF was sent to another larger hospital and a bit later I was asked whether I would like to go to the same place which I said I did. I was asked whether I had insurance and when I replied in the negative nothing changed and I was not asked for any money.

After 3 days in the larger hospital we were discharged and presented with the bill of just over 8,000 baht which I paid with money friends had brought to me in the meantime.

We were given all support and services up front and with no proof of monies to pay.

[pomchop]

If as has been reported the vast majority of falang unpaid hospital bills comes from motorbike wrecks and if said falang tourists have rented the bike why not require motorbike rentals to tack on an extra amount on all rentals that would include insurance from a legitimate company for the duration of the rental? If the rental company fails to comply then the company would be responsible for hospital bills.

As for heart attacks and the like just absorb it out of the TAT funds as a "good will gesture" for those who have no insurance.

[razorramone]

If its such a big problem then hospitals should be more strict when admitting/treating people.

When I first arrived here I went to bumrumgrad for a foot injury. I spent half a day getting treatment, and then went down to the cashier who told me i had to pay 10k total. At that point I realised my health insurance wouldn't direct pay, I had to pay and claim it back later.

I didn't have the cash on me, so you know what I did? Walked out the hospital. Nobody stopped me, nobody was keeping track. They had an address, which was completely made up because I couldnt remember my real hotel address.

If I was a tourist, I could have just flown home and never paid.

I'm not saying refuse people in emergencies. But mine wasn't an emergency, they could have checked payment with me first.

[MAJIC]

The Thais don't have to pay medical bills when they come to the UK so so what if Brits don't pay in Thailand ! (what other countries do is up to them)

Thais need medical insurance to get visa to the UK.

Not if you are the Thai Spouse of a British Citizen entering the UK on a Settlement Visa at no cost,to the Thai Spouse.

[JDGRUEN]

Swiss

FYI, the U.S. does NOT require health insurance to obtain a tourist visa.

Mac

I know that... but I also know from personal experience that US hospitals will NOT treat you until you have paid upfront for the treatment... and that is the big difference, in Thailand you DO get treatment before you have shown money...

Not entirely accurate. With few exceptions, even private hospitals must stabilize any person in a medical emergency. That goes 100% for any government facility.

And - the treatment will often go beyond minimal stabilization up to a point where a patient can walk out of the hospital (but not always).

If you are a foreigner in Dallas, Texas and have a serious illness heart attack, stroke, or car accident - broken bones, concussion, and worse - you would likely be taken to Parkland Hospital (the County Taxpayer paid Facility). You would get top flight treatment by some of the best medical staff in the world. You would be asked to pay - but if you said you couldn't you would just walk away (or be wheeled away) ... get a cab to DFW airport not far away and fly home.

Ten Thousand Illegal Alien Babies are born in Parkland Hospital each year - free to the mothers... paid by Texas Taxpayers... This is the same story for any foreigner Thai, Brit, German, Aussie, etc. at Ben Taub county hospital in Houston and John Peter Smith Hospital in Fort Worth.. and all other county hospitals in Texas.

I wouldn't mind paying a reasonable fee for urgent or emergency care in Thailand - but I would want a Card that applied to me to at least pay a significant portion of the hospitalization in Thailand that got me to a point of being stabilized.

Edited August 20, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[evadgib]

Med bills would perhaps be a little more affordable if they were based on nature of injury rather than ethnicity of patient.

[trainman34014]

The Thais don't have to pay medical bills when they come to the UK so so what if Brits don't pay in Thailand ! (what other countries do is up to them)

Thais need medical insurance to get visa to the UK.

Then this must be a recent new rule because my wife has been four times and there has never been a requirement for health insurance.

[StreetCowboy]

Med bills would perhaps be a little more affordable if they were based on nature of injury rather than ethnicity of patient.

To the best of my knowledge, my bills have always been treatment-based. In Hong Kong, Taiwan, Thailand and UAE. The way they have been paid has depended on residency, nationality and insurance,.

SC

[PoorSucker]

The Thais don't have to pay medical bills when they come to the UK so so what if Brits don't pay in Thailand ! (what other countries do is up to them)

Thais need medical insurance to get visa to the UK.

Then this must be a recent new rule because my wife has been four times and there has never been a requirement for health insurance.

Spouses to citizens do not require health insurance.

[willyumiii]

I call them "Euro Myths" negative fantasies about the USA.and other non Euro countries.

Guess it makes them feel as good as they think they are in Europe.

I know of a family who suffered a major medical emergency in the USA soon after becoming unemployed and losing all medical insurance that they had had for decades.

All needed treatment was received!

The family had to show what assets they had, (savings, real estate etc.) and what debts they had,( including, but not limited to medical expenses,) and current income.

100% of several hundred thousand dollars ( US D, not THB ) of medical expenses were dismissed.

The USA does not abandon those in need without medical coverage.

They receive the best treatment possible and financial assistance if required.

STOP THE EURO RUMORS AND MYTHS!

THANK YOU.

Swiss

FYI, the U.S. does NOT require health insurance to obtain a tourist visa.

Mac

I know that... but I also know from personal experience that US hospitals will NOT treat you until you have paid upfront for the treatment... and that is the big difference, in Thailand you DO get treatment before you have shown money...

You are mistaken. Completely mistaken. US hospitals, if they take any government money, must give you care until you are stable. Every hospital takes government money either in the form of grants for equipment or additions, or something as simple as treating patients who are covered by medicare or medicaid so it's virtually all hospitals.

"Stable" includes any emergency surgery and a hospital room with great treatment if necessary.

They aren't even allowed by law to ask if you have money or insurance before you are stable!!!!! Yes, you owe for the treatment but if they can't collect they are out. That applies to citizens and to foreigners.

Every hospital has a government sponsored "charity fund" and at their discretion they can pay your bill from that.

The US has a mighty strange reputation generated by foreigners who don't understand the system. Do you think the US just lets people die in the street?

Gimme a break!!!!

Now, I have heard that Thailand will let you lay there and die without treatment if you can't pay, but I don't know if it's true. I hope not.

[Soutpeel]

I call them "Euro Myths" negative fantasies about the USA.and other non Euro countries.

STOP THE EURO RUMORS AND MYTHS!

THANK YOU.

As I cited in a previous post...I watched a documentary sometime ago about the US medical system (incidently made by a a US produer) which cited numerous cases of people being kicked out on the street once their conditions were stabilised, and the only basis that they were kicked out the hospitals and put in taxi's or dropped off a bus stops was because they didnt have the means to pay for further treatment...

so it appears it not a Euro rumours or a myth.

I also suppose the "dead peasant" life insurance polices in which US companies take out life insurance in their employee's names with the company being named as the beneficiary in the event of the employee death is a Euro rumour and myth as well ?

[JLCrab]

[NeverSure]

Why do these topics always wind up being about the USA?

[Soutpeel]

Why do these topics always wind up being about the USA?

As a general observation and not intended to flame anyone, but on TV irrespective of the topic under discussion, it could be dicussion on the price of cheese in Holland and one of the colonial cousins seems to think its his moral duty to get some reference about the US and start waving the flag....

thats how topic's end up about the US all the time...

[JLCrab]

Why do these topics always wind up being about the USA?

Because there ain't no fun in bashing Burkina Faso.

[historyprof]

I call them "Euro Myths" negative fantasies about the USA.and other non Euro countries.

STOP THE EURO RUMORS AND MYTHS!

THANK YOU.

As I cited in a previous post...I watched a documentary sometime ago about the US medical system (incidently made by a a US produer) which cited numerous cases of people being kicked out on the street once their conditions were stabilised, and the only basis that they were kicked out the hospitals and put in taxi's or dropped off a bus stops was because they didnt have the means to pay for further treatment...

so it appears it not a Euro rumours or a myth.

I also suppose the "dead peasant" life insurance polices in which US companies take out life insurance in their employee's names with the company being named as the beneficiary in the event of the employee death is a Euro rumour and myth as well ?

And not just the US. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sending-patients-home-at-night-shows-789067 Sending patients home at night shows NHS (UK) faces a dark time.

BOOTING frail and vulnerable patients out into the street at the dead of night is a callous and disgraceful act. Behind the appalling figures which show almost 240,000 people were sent home from hospital between 11pm and 6am last year will be numerous tragic, personal tales.

I had 3 emergency operations in Thailand and never any problems. It's one of the reasons I live here. The health care is better.

Edited August 21, 2013 by historyprof

[StreetCowboy]

I call them "Euro Myths" negative fantasies about the USA.and other non Euro countries.

STOP THE EURO RUMORS AND MYTHS!

THANK YOU.

As I cited in a previous post...I watched a documentary sometime ago about the US medical system (incidently made by a a US produer) which cited numerous cases of people being kicked out on the street once their conditions were stabilised, and the only basis that they were kicked out the hospitals and put in taxi's or dropped off a bus stops was because they didnt have the means to pay for further treatment...

so it appears it not a Euro rumours or a myth.

I also suppose the "dead peasant" life insurance polices in which US companies take out life insurance in their employee's names with the company being named as the beneficiary in the event of the employee death is a Euro rumour and myth as well ?

You can't believe everything that you see on TV. Furthermore, facts are not always representative. there would be little point in someone producing a documentary saying what a great job the majority of hospitals do, not in saying how effective are most insurance policies. I think it is reasonable to say that if a documentary highlighting problems is justified, then the opposite is probably be the norm.

SC

[jpinx]

A simple Accident and emergency insurance policy would cover the life-threatening situations, and for the rest they need to prove ability to pay before treatment goes beyond stabilising. That proof could be an insurance policy or a visa/mastercard with a minimum balance available.

Edited to add ...... or a wad of cash

Edited August 21, 2013 by jpinx

[lomatopo]

Has there been a documentary made about deadbeat foreigners skipping out of paying their medical bills in Thailand?

I assume the problem, if there is one, would primarily involve tourists? I assume long-stay residents (non-Imm) have to provide identification (passport, visa, address) which would allow collections of un-paid medical bills?

[Soutpeel]

I call them "Euro Myths" negative fantasies about the USA.and other non Euro countries.

STOP THE EURO RUMORS AND MYTHS!

THANK YOU.

As I cited in a previous post...I watched a documentary sometime ago about the US medical system (incidently made by a a US produer) which cited numerous cases of people being kicked out on the street once their conditions were stabilised, and the only basis that they were kicked out the hospitals and put in taxi's or dropped off a bus stops was because they didnt have the means to pay for further treatment...

so it appears it not a Euro rumours or a myth.

I also suppose the "dead peasant" life insurance polices in which US companies take out life insurance in their employee's names with the company being named as the beneficiary in the event of the employee death is a Euro rumour and myth as well ?

You can't believe everything that you see on TV. Furthermore, facts are not always representative. there would be little point in someone producing a documentary saying what a great job the majority of hospitals do, not in saying how effective are most insurance policies. I think it is reasonable to say that if a documentary highlighting problems is justified, then the opposite is probably be the norm.

SC

SC...I have no issue with what your saying but my response was to posts like this:

"I call them "Euro Myths" negative fantasies about the USA"

"The USA does not abandon those in need without medical coverage"

"They receive the best treatment possible and financial assistance if required"

"STOP THE EURO RUMORS AND MYTHS"

Even if a couple of the cases in the documentry are 100% true....it proves that statements like the above are not factually true, and just strike me as flag waving, hence the reason people see post like this as a a gap to put the boot in about the US.

As a comparision get opinions from British expats in TV about the NHS in the UK and pretty sure you will not get any flag waving and would suspect most will say the NHS is a joke, The original concept of a NHS was a great one, but due to imcompentance, mismangement and piggies in the trough over the years the system is a mess/joke.

I personally cant comment on the NHS, even though I can avail myself to the services, I have never used them, as all my working life, even the time I worked in the UK I have had private medical insurance. However I do have a realitive who works with the NHS and even she says its a complete mess

[simon43]

I know for a fact that one farang who frequented the same bar for years was dragded out into the street when he suffered a heart attack. The altruistic bar owner did then call the police.

I had a similar experience about 5 years ago in Phuket at one of my hotels. The minivan driver who was dropping off my customers then tried to drop off another passenger, claiming that this guy needed to rest in my hotel for a little while.

In fact, the poor guy was actually dead - heart attack I suppose, and the minivan driver was trying to dispose of his body.....

Simon

Edited August 21, 2013 by simon43

[StreetCowboy]

I call them "Euro Myths" negative fantasies about the USA.and other non Euro countries.

STOP THE EURO RUMORS AND MYTHS!

THANK YOU.

As I cited in a previous post...I watched a documentary sometime ago about the US medical system (incidently made by a a US produer) which cited numerous cases of people being kicked out on the street once their conditions were stabilised, and the only basis that they were kicked out the hospitals and put in taxi's or dropped off a bus stops was because they didnt have the means to pay for further treatment...

so it appears it not a Euro rumours or a myth.

I also suppose the "dead peasant" life insurance polices in which US companies take out life insurance in their employee's names with the company being named as the beneficiary in the event of the employee death is a Euro rumour and myth as well ?

You can't believe everything that you see on TV. Furthermore, facts are not always representative. there would be little point in someone producing a documentary saying what a great job the majority of hospitals do, not in saying how effective are most insurance policies. I think it is reasonable to say that if a documentary highlighting problems is justified, then the opposite is probably be the norm.

SC

SC...I have no issue with what your saying but my response was to posts like this:

"I call them "Euro Myths" negative fantasies about the USA"

"The USA does not abandon those in need without medical coverage"

"They receive the best treatment possible and financial assistance if required"

"STOP THE EURO RUMORS AND MYTHS"

Even if a couple of the cases in the documentry are 100% true....it proves that statements like the above are not factually true, and just strike me as flag waving, hence the reason people see post like this as a a gap to put the boot in about the US.

As a comparision get opinions from British expats in TV about the NHS in the UK and pretty sure you will not get any flag waving and would suspect most will say the NHS is a joke, The original concept of a NHS was a great one, but due to imcompentance, mismangement and piggies in the trough over the years the system is a mess/joke.

I personally cant comment on the NHS, even though I can avail myself to the services, I have never used them, as all my working life, even the time I worked in the UK I have had private medical insurance. However I do have a realitive who works with the NHS and even she says its a complete mess

My experience of the NHS is that the service they provide is excellent; but, as so often, we take that for granted.

When faced with impossible tasks, like care for the elderly, they struggle somewhat, and probably the elderly would get better care from their own families, but when they will not or cannot take the burden, the NHS does as best it can. But the intention, in setting up the NHS, was not to prolong the misery of decreptitude, but to return workers to productivity regardless of their personal wealth or otherwise.

When faced with the sort of misfortune for which we need to take out insurance (i.e. beyond what we can pay for ourselves from our prudent savings) the NHS is often the only provider capable of offering the service in any case, as far as I am aware. Although the private hospitals may have a better wine list, their ability to stabilise trauma victims generally falls short of what the NHS can offer

SC

[Benaud]

Who travels without international health insurance anyway???

[Soutpeel]

Who travels without international health insurance anyway???

Lots it seems, but even more troubling is that people move to foreign countries to live on a permanent basis and do not carry medical insurance either and obviously they are not citizens or PR's of the country they move to and are on fixed incomes and in many cases very few savings in the bank.

so one could expect things may turn out very bad for them if they fall seriously ill, or are involved in a serious accident and dont have the funds to pay for all medical treatment they require

[bunnaag]

Who travels without international health insurance anyway???

Lots it seems, but even more troubling is that people move to foreign countries to live on a permanent basis and do not carry medical insurance either and obviously they are not citizens or PR's of the country they move to and are on fixed incomes and in many cases very few savings in the bank.

so one could expect things may turn out very bad for them if they fall seriously ill, or are involved in a serious accident and dont have the funds to pay for all medical treatment they require

next year I will travel without insurance because my usual company will not insure above the age of 75.

[Sheryl]

Has there been a documentary made about deadbeat foreigners skipping out of paying their medical bills in Thailand?

I assume the problem, if there is one, would primarily involve tourists? I assume long-stay residents (non-Imm) have to provide identification (passport, visa, address) which would allow collections of un-paid medical bills?

From what I have seen and heard the problem is more with long term expats.

A surprising number have no health insurance and many are living ion fixed incomes that cannot begin to accomodate catastrophic health costs.

It occasionally happens to tourists as well but less often.

There was an article in one of the papers some time back on the problem of older resident expats having "spent all their money" and being unable to pay for their medical care.

However addressing this problem fully would need more than a requirement for insurance linked to visa...it would need a viable insurance option for those over 65 or with pre-existing conditions. Such people are unable to obtain private insurance.

[jpinx]

Has there been a documentary made about deadbeat foreigners skipping out of paying their medical bills in Thailand?

I assume the problem, if there is one, would primarily involve tourists? I assume long-stay residents (non-Imm) have to provide identification (passport, visa, address) which would allow collections of un-paid medical bills?

From what I have seen and heard the problem is more with long term expats.

A surprising number have no health insurance and many are living ion fixed incomes that cannot begin to accomodate catastrophic health costs.

It occasionally happens to tourists as well but less often.

There was an article in one of the papers some time back on the problem of older resident expats having "spent all their money" and being unable to pay for their medical care.

However addressing this problem fully would need more than a requirement for insurance linked to visa...it would need a viable insurance option for those over 65 or with pre-existing conditions. Such people are unable to obtain private insurance.

I also remember a report on the older/retired farangs, but the numbers (from memory) were such that the total of their unpaid hospital bills is a tiny decimal percentage of the health budget.

Basically someone needs to accumulate the data on numbers of farangs admitted to hospitals, numbers who did not pay, actual total value of treatments given, actual unpaid total, actual Health budget for Thailand.

Let's get this in proportion people