Water Pump Installation

[ray23]

With Sung Kran water supply became a problem.

I tried a second pump to from the main to the tank. Don't think it can be done. The problem is as the water is used in the tank the float valve activates and the second pump does it's job annd tries to refill the bank. Problem there may or may not be water in the main. If there is water, no problem, if not the pump just continues to run. This will eventually just burn the pump out. Oh well worth a try.

There is no way to tell if the main has water or not and if it does it's usually late at night.

I thought about a bypass from the line around the pump with a valve setup to run into the pump when you know there is water. Certainly fills quickly when there is water, and if there is any it will bring it up.

What I'm trying to achieve is a automatic system.

Any ideas?

[Crossy]

With Sung Kran water supply became a problem.

I tried a second pump to from the main to the tank. Don't think it can be done. The problem is as the water is used in the tank the float valve activates and the second pump does it's job annd tries to refill the bank. Problem there may or may not be water in the main. If there is water, no problem, if not the pump just continues to run. This will eventually just burn the pump out. Oh well worth a try.

There is no way to tell if the main has water or not and if it does it's usually late at night.

I assume by 'main' you mean your village water supply which is somewhat variable.

How about a pressure switch on the inlet side of the pump (the main side) that only allows the pump to run when there is some water pressure.

Should be easy enough to implement and will be fully automatic.

[astral]

It is best to get the tank on the same level as the main so that it will fill

whenever there is water flow,

then pump from the tank into the house to get a good pressure for showers etc.

Pumping from an empty main is a waste of time and money.

Could you dig or drill your own well? Look and see what others in the area are doing.

[Sir Burr]

With Sung Kran water supply became a problem.

I tried a second pump to from the main to the tank. Don't think it can be done. The problem is as the water is used in the tank the float valve activates and the second pump does it's job annd tries to refill the bank. Problem there may or may not be water in the main. If there is water, no problem, if not the pump just continues to run. This will eventually just burn the pump out. Oh well worth a try.

There is no way to tell if the main has water or not and if it does it's usually late at night.

I thought about a bypass from the line around the pump with a valve setup to run into the pump when you know there is water. Certainly fills quickly when there is water, and if there is any it will bring it up.

What I'm trying to achieve is a automatic system.

Any ideas?

Each pump you use needs two float switches. The first, where it is pumping water to. When the level of water goes down in the tank, the float switch activates the pump.

The second float switch is where the pump is pumping from. If the float switch is hanging down due to a lack of source water, the pump will not activate, thus, saving burnt out pumps.

I have a bore that feeds two tanks. One for the house and the second for a sprinkler system.

The bore has two pumps, one for each stock tank and a float switch for each pump in case the well dries out.

Very simple for you to fix and float switches are not expensive.

Edited April 17, 2006 by Sir Burr

[jdinasia]

did the float and second pump before and put it on a timer AND a switch for late at night

[mouse]

I have installed a double system. One part is hooked to the village water tower and ususally runs without problems, then connected thorugh a resticting backflow valve, we have hooked a self contained water pump system to the home, by pumping water out of the nearesrt well, less than 100 meters away. I only use it from time to time and when the village water pressure is not present. The pump for that purpose cost a mere 4,500 baht and has an automatic shutoff system and small tank built into the pump itself. I can also turn it off through an internal breaker switch connection.

I learned a long time ago to never depend on any one signle means of supply for anything in LOS. Except for my Darling wife, in case of a malfunction that would be an outright replacement.

[ray23]

Inlet float switch now that sounds like the ticket, where do you find them? Can the average Thai electrican install them?

I thought about the timer but still no gaurentee that the water will be ther at any given time.

The well may be what woudl solvethe long term problem, but more expensive then a pump

[Sir Burr]

Inlet float switch now that sounds like the ticket, where do you find them? Can the average Thai electrican install them?

I thought about the timer but still no gaurentee that the water will be ther at any given time.

The well may be what woudl solvethe long term problem, but more expensive then a pump

The inlet float switch is identical to the outlet float switch. You can buy them at any Home-pro or pump shop. Get the pump shop electrician to install it.

[lopburi3]

You should never, ever, pump from a supply line here. Almost all will have breaks of some kind and you will be drawing in ground water with all kinds of bacteria and virus, your neighbors wash water (siphon if they have hose under water and tap open). The water main should always be at a positive pressure to prevent this but if empty it is not. Pumping will cause it to be empty and go negative. Not what you or your neighbors want. Your storage tank should be low enough to receive flow of water when it is available. If a standing tank can not be used there are bladder types available or you could place your tank in a hole. But please do not pump for a water main.

[Sir Burr]

Sorry, didn't read the OP accurately. You can't use a float switch in a mains pipe.

Lopburi3 is correct in what he says.

Get a bore dug. It cost me 1100 Bht per metre including concrete rings (1.5 mtrs).

[ray23]

Well here we go guys, Tried global could not get anyone to understand what I was talking about including my darling wife. The technician showed up, he did not understand either.

I researched the net with him watching, inlet pressure switch, found the diagram, he looked at it oh cylinoid. Dia.

So it gets installed today I've really got my fingers crossed that he does understand what is going on. Time will tell.

If not a temp solution, I will go back to the old method of garvity fill, there is enough pressure most times to fill the tank at night, even above ground, just not consistent.

I understand about the bore we buy drinkng water outside.

At this juncture all that any neighbors have done is to have gone to a two tank system giving larger storage capacity.

I think the real answer is the bore although I have no idea what the water level is here. I imagine not to deep, one block over they hit water at about three feet trying to install a guys under ground tank. About two months ago with no recent rains.

I just don't have the cash do that at the moment.

Well I will fill you guys in when I see what happens. I really miss being able to communicate but this is a long ways passed hello and how are you

[bbigman21]

With Sung Kran water supply became a problem.

I tried a second pump to from the main to the tank. Don't think it can be done. The problem is as the water is used in the tank the float valve activates and the second pump does it's job annd tries to refill the bank. Problem there may or may not be water in the main. If there is water, no problem, if not the pump just continues to run. This will eventually just burn the pump out. Oh well worth a try.

There is no way to tell if the main has water or not and if it does it's usually late at night.

I assume by 'main' you mean your village water supply which is somewhat variable.

How about a pressure switch on the inlet side of the pump (the main side) that only allows the pump to run when there is some water pressure.

Should be easy enough to implement and will be fully automatic.

or a flow switch

[billd766]

You should never, ever, pump from a supply line here. Almost all will have breaks of some kind and you will be drawing in ground water with all kinds of bacteria and virus, your neighbors wash water (siphon if they have hose under water and tap open). The water main should always be at a positive pressure to prevent this but if empty it is not. Pumping will cause it to be empty and go negative. Not what you or your neighbors want. Your storage tank should be low enough to receive flow of water when it is available. If a standing tank can not be used there are bladder types available or you could place your tank in a hole. But please do not pump for a water main.

This may be all well and good where you live, but up here in the Central region we have had no water from the government supply for a couple of months now. We are not drawing in any water because there simply is none from any reservoir.

What we actually do is pump from the local stream as most everybody else does. We pump under the road through the (dry) drain 250 metres up to the 14 x 2,000 litre storage tanks around the houses on the site. It is allowed to settle in the tanks and it is then fed through 2 filters and it is only used for general purposes. Drinking water comes from 2 x 3,000 litre stainless steel tanks which are fed by rain water during the wet season.

My storage tanks are all above the main supply as we live on the slope of the hills so we have to pump up hill though in normal times the water pressure is good enough to fill the tanks though I do have a pump which I use when the pressure is low.

It is impossible to dig a well or drill a bore hole as about 1/2 metre down is rock and the only way to drill through it would be to use a diamond drill bit or an oil rig drill and that would be too expensive.

I could buy from the government but with 14 people living here it would cost 300 baht a tanker load and I would need at least 3 tankers a week.

We just live with it and do the best we can.

So far (touch wood) we have caught no bugs from the water though a Thai friend (who lives in Germany) stayed with us last week and had a bad stomach and lived on Immodium for 3 days.

Roumer has it that the water will come back tomorrow but I have heard that before and I have a 20 baht bet out that says it won't be here tomorrow.

[ray23]

Well thats a lot tougher situation then mine. We had to use five trucks load in the last ten days, but some of them were partial as we kept the tank topped off each day and those went at 150 Baht.

I truly believe what we dealt with was water diverted for Sung Kran to the main city Udon. The following day we had water. I was simply trying to accomplish the best scenario, for our home.

So here is how the inlet prssure switch went.

I noticed when the worker came he wanted to install a electronic mointor in the tank to keep it full. My wife and I explained that was mnot the problem that part of the system was working perfectly. That is when I showed him the diagram of the inlet pressure switch installation. So he says oh no problem I can do.

shows up at five o'clock adn begins installing the tank monitoring swich, I stopped him and again tried to explain what needed to be done, to no avail, even to some wise comments by one of his workers. Guy you would have been proud of me, after five days of fighting this problem, I stayed Mia Bpen Lia, guess I am learning a bit

So I just had them remove the pump and went back to the gravity flow system I had before. It worked the majority of the time now I need to think in terms of a bore or additional storage capicity. And if the advantages are worth the expense, if it continues then I will infact do something. the problem is common enough here that getting water form truks is say and if you call in the morning they will get to you before the day is over. So as long as you have 1/4 of the storage capacity you shouldn't run out of water, a long as you call for it.

There is no doubt in my mind that a inflow pressure switch would have worked, the problem communication and face for the worker. Here in Isan fro waht the workers understand and are familair with you have no problems if you just stay out of the way. But you add something new to the works and they will fight you every inch of the way if you are a farrang. Just the way it is, if your a farrang you know nothing in thier eyes, if you prove them wrong, they are not going to be happy campers. In this case I paid the guy 150 Baht for taking the pump out and plumbing the system back the way it was. He was happy. Except for Mr. wiseguy he wouldn't even accept a beer, he must have taken not letting the switch be installed personally and had a loss of face. I try to avoid that but not to the point of accepting and paying for work that I don't want.

There is an engineer attached to the first home project, who is progressive thinking, he is on vacation at the momnent, speaks pretty good english and is willing to try something different. I may get with him when he gets back and dicuss the problem, if he buys off on it, the Thai workers will not get in his way to do something. Thats just life in Thailand.

Thanks for all your input, may happen yet.

[billd766]

Roumer has it that the water will come back tomorrow but I have heard that before and I have a 20 baht bet out that says it won't be here tomorrow.

###### the water came back today and I have lost 20 baht.

I suppose I could always say I meant the water should have been on at 0600 but that would mean I am a cheapskate.

Well it is only 20 baht.

[billd766]

Roumer has it that the water will come back tomorrow but I have heard that before and I have a 20 baht bet out that says it won't be here tomorrow.

###### the water came back today and I have lost 20 baht.

I suppose I could always say I meant the water should have been on at 0600 but that would mean I am a cheapskate.

Well it is only 20 baht.

[ray23]

I never stop getting amazed by life in Thialnd, with the water problems we were experiercing in our development, here. Just couldn't seem to get any answers or action from the water department. Then all of a sudden for the past two days a huge governement water truck has been running around filling the water tanks free. TT ( Tis Thailand)

[Gary A]

In our village we have four tanks on a tower. They normally fill those tanks in the morning and when the tanks go dry that's it for the day. I put a check valve in the line from the village. Water can go to my storage tanks when there is pressure but cannot back flow when there is no pressure. A simple mechanical float valve in the storage tanks stops the water when the tanks are full so no overflowing.

Edited April 20, 2006 by Gary A

[lopburi3]

In our village we have four tanks on a tower. They normally fill those tanks in the morning and when the tanks go dry that's it for the day. I put a check valve in the line from the village. Water can go to my storage tanks when there is pressure but cannot back flow when there is no pressure. A simple mechanical float valve in the storage tanks stops the water when the tanks are full so no overflowing.

Normally the float is attached at the end of the feed pipe and keeps the water below it so there would be no need for a check valve (it acts as its own-and water never gets to pipe level). The only place you should usually need a check valve is for a pump if water is being pumped up to the top of tank.

[Gary A]

The check valve is for when I am using the water pump. The spigots for the yard are between the pump and the check valve. There used to be a manual valve where the check valve is. My wife would forget to turn off the valve and the pump would feed tank water back to the village. The check valve makes it idiot proof. Not that my wife is an idiot but sometimes she forgets. She also used to forget to open the manual valve for filling and we would run out of water.

In our village we have four tanks on a tower. They normally fill those tanks in the morning and when the tanks go dry that's it for the day. I put a check valve in the line from the village. Water can go to my storage tanks when there is pressure but cannot back flow when there is no pressure. A simple mechanical float valve in the storage tanks stops the water when the tanks are full so no overflowing.

Normally the float is attached at the end of the feed pipe and keeps the water below it so there would be no need for a check valve (it acts as its own-and water never gets to pipe level). The only place you should usually need a check valve is for a pump if water is being pumped up to the top of tank.

[lopburi3]

Ok now I got it. It is on the bypass.

[Gary A]

That's correct. Of course there are more valves involved but one unexpected benefit was that the village water has more pressure than my pump. That means that even if it is setup to use only the pump the village water overrides the pump and the pump doesn't run. The hours that we have village water depends on when the guy decides to fill the village tower. We actually have four different systems. One is for drinking (1500 liter) water, one is for our small (500 liter) tower (emergency water) one is from the (2,000 liter) storage tanks and the last is village water. Believe it or not my wife knows how it all works and which valves are for which system.

Ok now I got it. It is on the bypass.