FM Surapong suggests 'photo visa' to stop criminals entering Thailand

[madmitch]

In this electronic age there must be dozens of better methods of visa security than simply attaching a visa with a serial number (or in the case of extension of stay, no more than a stamp in the passport).

Time for some forward thinking: a system fit for the 21st century. And this comment does not just apply to Thailand; many more developed countries are still also stuck in the dark ages when it comes to visas.

Edited August 27, 2013 by madmitch

[chrisinth]

It has always been my belief that the 'true' criminals residing or visiting Thailand are, and will remain, squeaky clean when it comes to visas, nothing will change. Exception being if they make the proposed photograph, or software scanning it fit for facial recognision. The 'true criminals will have access to passports, etc. as well as any type of visa money can currently buy.

What would be the criteria for criminal checks on a tourist as opposed to someone working or residing in the country? Where would the line be drawn or would all records be taken into consideration? While not condoning criminal activity, it is my belief that a person, once convicted and sentence done, should not have to carry what could have been an action on the spur of the moment for the rest of their lives. Just my view.

If the offences targeted were for acts of violence, sexual abuse or assault, repeated drugs/alcohol abuse, etc, then I could certainly live with that.

[chrisinth]

This is obviously a misguided attempt at solving what, sadly, is a serious problem in Thailand in general and in Pattaya in general. I have read a statistic somewhere that apparently as many as 50% (every second of us!!!) of Pattaya long-term farang residents is a current of former criminal!! Hard to believe....but then again a quick look around in most bars reveals individuals with not so bright faces covered in tats who obviously haven't spent their productive days as city bankers...

I would really be interested in the source of those statistics.

In the mean time, I will treat it as the BS that it really is.......................

The interest in the statistics BTW is to make sure my name isn't included, that I am not the wrong one of the two...........

I am assuming this is a wind-up post???

[harrry]

I hope they control the coloured bits of paper they have in the till a little more carefully than they handle the visa stickers.

[Halion]

Such hypocracy and stupidity unparrelled elsewhere. We the public were assured at the onset that No government officials at least of Thai origin were envolved in this theft.

Now they claim that they wish to introduce a new procedure in order to deter such people from commiting such theft.

As a result of the current administration comprised of the largest gathering of the intellectully and morally challenged morons we have been subjected to this kind of banal rhetoric.

When will these buffons stop trying to put patches on the effect and start looking at removing the cause.. Most probably never as that would require them to remove themselves and put a significant dent in their respective rice bowl.

[Songhua]

How does taking/adding a photo determine whether the applicant is a criminal or not?

Although some appear to have entered the country by less than legal means with stolen stickers, surely the only 'criminals' here are the officials who stole them in the first place.

Another knee-jerk reaction.

Let me break it down for you....

• "Entering the country by less than legal means" = entering the country by illegal means (no need for spin, right?)
• = knowingly engaging in a criminal activity thereby making one a criminal (the people who bought the stickers were knowingly committing a crime
• a. NB. There can be more than one criminal involved in a crime (here, both the sellers and purchasers of the stickers have committed a crime)
• People who engage in one criminal activity (e.g., entering a country in a knowingly illegal manner) have a higher likelihood of having committed other crimes and greater probability of committing crimes in the future. This is because:
• a. Their threshold for committing crime is lower (they're willing to knowingly commit one crime so may be more willing than average to commit others)
• b. They probably have something to hide if they need to avoid legitimate means of entry.

Therefore, having a photo requirement will make it more difficult (perhaps not impossible) for criminals to gain illegal entry to Thailand (ref. 5a and 6b above).

Stop thinking the Thais are so stupid ...

[p.s., the above logic does not necessarily apply to refugees and economic migrants who are generally seeking long-term safety and economic security for their families and who perceive no other options ... these are not the people we're talking about here, like the young Russian picked up a few days back]

I can't disagree with much of what you say DocNo but the photograph must be done in conjunction with a criminality check. A photo alone proves nothing other than that the visa has been issued to the person who holds the passport.

Yes, it prevents anyone without a photo visa crossing a border (because to do so would indicate they have an illegal visa and are committing an illegal act) but that will only work until someone outside gets savvy enough to start embedding photos in stolen/fake visas. I'm not sure we even know whether the lucky recipients of this latest batch of stolen stickers knew they were doing anything under the table or whether they thought they'd simply gone to an agent.

My suspicion would be much as yours however, that at least some were knowingly obtaining visas they were not eligible for.

In my short time on TV I have not once stated (or thought) Thais are stupid. Plans, policies and happenings, yes. It's a constant debate on here that I have not once entered into. I'm sorry you found it necessary to accuse me of it but you're at the wrong tree. If it did come to it you might be surprised to find me actually siding with you.

[SOTIRIOS]

Why is everything done backwards here???? Punish the criminals (the Officials) and have done with it. Problem solved.

...because they don't really want anything to change....

...but they were caught...so they have to appear 'just'....and find another way around it....

[dunque]

Why is this proposal eliciting such ridicule? Seems remarkably similar to other countries

exhibit A

[CarthagoDelendaEst]

Isn't the photo in your passport already not good enough, how many photographs do you need attached? You have a pic of a guy in his passport then a pic of the same guy attached to a visa sticker what's the point? If you want to stop criminals entering the country via legal methods then don't grant them a visa. How will this prevent a criminal obtaining a visa on arrival.

Use your head a little. If the visa doesn't have a photograph, there is nothing to compare the passport photo AGAINST, to see that it's valid. It certainly makes using stolen visas harder. As much as people here seem to think criminals posess amazing technology to bypass this by changing it to their own photo, it certainly would be near impossible to do on a thin visa, or at the very least expensive and difficult.

Whereas right now all a person has to do is steal a visa and slap it on one of their pages and bam! Now able to enter Thailand. Granted I think there's a name on there but most immigration officials aren't that thorough. But they do usually look at the front page's photo, and if the visa had a photo they could easily spot the difference. Remember many immigration officials only spend a minute or two, sometimes less than a minute on approving entry.

[gtm2k]

so basically the immigration systems are so "disconnected in real-time" that you cant even detect an invalid serial number !

i reckon most private retailers in Thailand can detect if their product is sold or not and in which 7-eleven is it currently sitting in !

[hansgruber]

I'm all for it.

Visa and passport pics and details match is good for security.

Pics can't be faked because the immigration will then have it on file to match.

[Soutpeel]

I have a 100% fool proof method, for the Thai goverment which will never fail.....

Stop issuing visa's and do not allow any of those pesky farang bloody do gooders in the country, kick all the existing farangs out and close the borders like North Korea...

Visa problem solved

[Time Traveller]

The photo visa will show those evil foreign criminals. They'll be terrified!

[Thai at Heart]

Isn't the photo in your passport already not good enough, how many photographs do you need attached? You have a pic of a guy in his passport then a pic of the same guy attached to a visa sticker what's the point? If you want to stop criminals entering the country via legal methods then don't grant them a visa. How will this prevent a criminal obtaining a visa on arrival.

You seem to be missing the point that a stolen visa blamk can be added to any passport.

If a photograph is embedded into the visa when issued, you can feel more confident of validity.

The USA and UK certainly do this.

As to criminals, I have always felt passport issuing countries might be persuaded to issue criminal records in the details when a passport is scanned in at the airport immigration.

All you need to do is get hold of the printer to print the picture.

[winstonc]

This is obviously a misguided attempt at solving what, sadly, is a serious problem in Thailand in general and in Pattaya in general. I have read a statistic somewhere that apparently as many as 50% (every second of us!!!) of Pattaya long-term farang residents is a current of former criminal!! Hard to believe....but then again a quick look around in most bars reveals individuals with not so bright faces covered in tats who obviously haven't spent their productive days as city bankers...

i wasnt aware that having (tats)..meant you were no good to man nor beast,,interesting,will ask david beckham when i see him soon,hes probably worth more than the entire forum members,,,just saying....

[Sydebolle]

Who would make such stickers disappear? In Kuala Lumpur there is a slight chance, that some consular diplomats are lining their pockets as the local yokels certainly have no access to such blank stickers. We all know, that the "visa regulations" vary not only from Thai Embassy to Thai Embassy nor Thai Consulate to Thai Consulate but from Officer to Officer.
The sticker certainly come in handy and I am just waiting for Somsak blocking a traveller into Thailand with a stolen sticker, which they officially were blessed not in Kuala Lumpur or The Hague but in places like Phnom Penh, Vientiane or Rangoon. After all; without diplomatic pouch odour they become ...... stickers only!
Ah, and before I forget, which country's Ambassador sold the Embassy of his country to a businessman? We never had an update on that little incident. Pathetic!

[alocacoc]

...

Edited August 27, 2013 by alocacoc

[allan michaud]

How about stopping criminals (like TS etc) from leaving the country?

[zydeco]

I'm all for it.

Visa and passport pics and details match is good for security.

Pics can't be faked because the immigration will then have it on file to match.

Well, I think I'm against it. Out of principle. I'm just sick and tired of my life being put under a constant microscope in the hallowed name of "security". Why not put a ball and chain around the leg of every valid visa holder. Any foreigner without a ball and chain and Presto, you know they're guilty . . . of . . . something. I moved to this country for its relative freedom in comparison to the constant police, credit, airport, car, and sports facilities checks in the US. Now, Thailand seems to want to recreate the worst of the US without implementing what good there is there--which, if you give me an hour, I'm sure I can think of a few things.

[lee b]

How would this be done with a visa on arrival? With a biro pen or a pencil?

[unanimosity]

No, this headline is clearly a misprint and should read :

FM Surapong suggests 'photo visa' to stop local criminals leaving country

Naturally, the photos will have to be taken with a proprietary camera system just incidentally owned by no relation at all.

[diehard60]

Rather than hold a handful of people responsible for a couple of isolated incidents, by all means, lets squander a billion baht concocting some nonsensical new method of visa issuance that is compromised within the first week.

Well done to Thaksin's cousin Surapong.

Question? Do you know how to read? I think it is a good idea because it might stop some of the trash from coming in. They are trying to keep Thailand safer.

[zydeco]

Rather than hold a handful of people responsible for a couple of isolated incidents, by all means, lets squander a billion baht concocting some nonsensical new method of visa issuance that is compromised within the first week.

Well done to Thaksin's cousin Surapong.

Question? Do you know how to read? I think it is a good idea because it might stop some of the trash from coming in. They are trying to keep Thailand safer.

Safer? Really? If the Thai government wanted more "safety," there are lots of other more urgent issues to address first. As for this visa proposal, it would effectively eliminate the visa upon arrival program. You cannot do a criminal check and print out a photo while someone is standing in the immigration line. This will all need to be done in advance. Tourist numbers will suffer.

Edited August 28, 2013 by zydeco

[EyesWideOpen]

Sigh.....more silly nonsense. If they wanted to go high tech, then simply a matter of getting a

camera backed up by facial recognition software, that could scan the face of each tourist at

the immigration counter, and then compare it to a interpol data base of wanted criminals

in real time.

[sirchai]

I thought that my passport photo should suffice.

I think he meant to say, if this procedure had been inplace now it may have been helpful regarding the visa sticker/no. theft. Immigration has a list of all the stolen numbers although it appears that one hundred or so people were able to leave, leave, not trying to enter the country with the visas, before the police had a list of the stolen numbers.

This is why foreign Embassys do not issue passports. They do not have them on the premises.

Years ago and not so long ago thefts of blank passports was common. The Baeder Meinhoff crew comes to mind as known for passport thefts from Embassys.

Are they still alive? Wasn't that in the 70th? I'd guess a photo sticker instead of the ordinary sticker doesn't prevent criminals from coming into town//leaving town..

The hub of "good ideas" comes to mind. As good as tablet PCs from China for little kids and schools without electricity.-

Edited August 28, 2013 by sirchai

[Traveling Sailor]

Isn't the photo in your passport already not good enough, how many photographs do you need attached? You have a pic of a guy in his passport then a pic of the same guy attached to a visa sticker what's the point? If you want to stop criminals entering the country via legal methods then don't grant them a visa. How will this prevent a criminal obtaining a visa on arrival.

Use your head a little. If the visa doesn't have a photograph, there is nothing to compare the passport photo AGAINST, to see that it's valid. It certainly makes using stolen visas harder. As much as people here seem to think criminals posess amazing technology to bypass this by changing it to their own photo, it certainly would be near impossible to do on a thin visa, or at the very least expensive and difficult.

Whereas right now all a person has to do is steal a visa and slap it on one of their pages and bam! Now able to enter Thailand. Granted I think there's a name on there but most immigration officials aren't that thorough. But they do usually look at the front page's photo, and if the visa had a photo they could easily spot the difference. Remember many immigration officials only spend a minute or two, sometimes less than a minute on approving entry.

"there is nothing to compare the passport photo AGAINST." TRUE! In Thailand it is true. However, when entering China, the customs official has a computer. He/She types in country and passport # and up pops all the information that was gathered by the Chinese embassy where you applied for a visa, which takes several days to process. If the information does not match, you are arrested for attempting illegal entry. The Chinese are smart, intelligent and clever. They know what is necessary and they do it.

[bangon04]

If they did it then it would take longer, cost more money and be a general pain in the ass for everyone. I hope it doesn't happen as visa's are already stupidly annoying and expensive enough !

Isn't this the essence. the very definition of Thainess?

Otherwise they would have to use a computer at the border inspection to check whether the passport number agrees with the visa sticker number, and this would be far too simple and difficult to scam...

[mrtoad]

This bloke is a real bozo.

He will go far.

[mrtoad]

Why is everything done backwards here???? Punish the criminals (the Officials) and have done with it. Problem solved.

It's not a Thai problem, don't forget.

[geriatrickid]

Isn't the photo in your passport already not good enough, how many photographs do you need attached? You have a pic of a guy in his passport then a pic of the same guy attached to a visa sticker what's the point? If you want to stop criminals entering the country via legal methods then don't grant them a visa. How will this prevent a criminal obtaining a visa on arrival.

You seem to be missing the point that a stolen visa blamk can be added to any passport.

If a photograph is embedded into the visa when issued, you can feel more confident of validity.

The USA and UK certainly do this.

As to criminals, I have always felt passport issuing countries might be persuaded to issue criminal records in the details when a passport is scanned in at the airport immigration.

In respect to your comment about shared information, some countries already have agreements in place. The most prominent agreement is probably Canada & USA which allows the border agents to access information on cross border visitors. I think NZ and Australia have a similar agreement.