Teenager's take on how to reform Thai education

[kingstonkid]

interesting comments.

The point that has been made is that there is no incentive for kids to pay attention. When you know you cannot fail and mommy and daddy have the coin to get you in university why pay attention.

unlike the previous poster I find that the Mat 5 and 6 students are the best to teach as they will challenge you and have a desire to be challenged.

mat 1 and 2 are still int he Pratom pants style and only want to have fun.

[Skywalker69]

I wish you luck, young man.

With the entrenched views, especialy amongst Thai teachers, this will be a real David and Goliath contest.

Hope he and his friends don't get discouraged but they most definitely will be warned off if they speak up too much.

Your right, thats why he is going to need a lot of support.

[TinaKohChang]

"Q : What are the other major problems?

The lack of welfare for both teachers and ........power centralised in the hands of teachers...... ? what? Paradox.

Q : Why do most other students not seem to have any problems with the system?

They don't study.

--------------

I'm surprised ..........but that's how I've always been. - Surprised at a constant?? Paradox

-----

He's not as bright as people make out. He needs to string his words more carefully, or he'll get nowhere!

Sunisa.

You name the problem, and therefore it is just great that he speaks out openly what he not even should think (so as believed by 'good' Thai). Where can this country go, if saving face comes loooong before truth, scrutinizing and expressing one's individual opinion openly and were lies are well accepted for the sake of saving face...that is insane.

[hansnl]

"Q : What are the other major problems?

power centralised in the hands of teachers and school administrators"

And what school in the world is so different from this?! Give me a serious BREAK! These brats don't even listen to their teachers. I repeat, THEY DO NOT LISTEN. All they want to do is strole into class any time they please and do whatever the heck they want, which is not studying. They flat out don't have any respect for foreign teachers who really care about learning. We are labled 'serious' and KICKED out of school by these lazy ... I have had enough of these game playing idiots!

I advise you learn to spell correctly before you go on a tirade such as this. If your native language is not English...okay, you're doing fine. If your native language is English...you should hang your head in shame.

Not everybody had the benefits of your high class education.

And your tendency to be degrading to someone who tries to bring his points into the discussion.

[koosdeboer]

Wow, great article. I really hope this young man can start some kind of ball rolling...but I wont hold my breath.

 

I have been teaching english here in Thailand for about 9 years. At the moment I am  working at a government (albeit selective) high school. Working at a high school is something that I swore I would never do again. When I was offered the job I took into consideration the type of school it was and decided to give it a go (the money and working conditions were pretty good to). I have again been reminded why I prefer to teach older prathom kids for my bread and butter. There is a point, somewhere around matthayom three that all the conditioning of how to be 'Thai' has finally worn down the kids naturally inquisitive nature. This is why I chose to teach matthayom 1 and 2. I can still see remnants in those kids of what should be nurtured, but is not. My friends dont understand why I dont want to teach higher level matthayom students. I just find a lot of those kids (no not all) to be a bit soul destroying to teach. I have now been forced to teach a few periods a week of matthayom 3 and 4. I do try and some of the students are pretty cool but the mindset is just not there for me. By that time the indoctrination has kind of zombiefied a lot of them. I am in no way saying that these kids are not smart. I know for a fact that many of them are really very intelligent young people. I just cant see the spark in a lot of them anymore. Having said that I do try to bring it out in them and do succeed at times.

 

Anyway, Thailand is possibly about to be thrown open to the world a little more with the AEC coming into fruition in 2015. Perhaps having more contact with their neighbours, being shown up a little at times will make them sit up and really take notice. This country has so many good things about it, inspite of all the negative tripe that I read on here. Thailand does not have to veer toward being too western in its thinking, it doesnt need to lose its identity, but Thai kids deserve more. One thing they can take from our education system is our acceptance to question everything...even if just for the sake of a good argument! Respect should be given to all untill it is shown that, the respect is not deserved. However, the blind acceptance that older people are ALWAYS right is stifling the younger generations. Thai kids should be taught how to use reason when arguing a point. This is something that is sorely lacking. There are obviously many other problems, the no fail system......

 

This young man should be given more airtime. I am genuinely interested in seeing what is going to happen in this country over the next decade. I will be here, unless something strange happens. I hope more like him speak out.

 

 

 

Enjoyed reading that. Agree with most of your comments. I have heard recently that The Thai Education system will take its first major change or step to bring it in line with ASEAN. From the Chamber of Commerce in Khon Kaen (good Source) that at the end of the 2nd semester in March 2014 all educational facilities will shut down for over 5 months and reopen 1st Semester September 2014 to bring the semesters in line with an ASEAN directive. Can anybody confirm this as my kids school are saying 'dont know'  lot of teachers scrambling for money if this is true.

 

From 2014 and the years thereafter the new school year in Thailand will start 1 month later till in line.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Emdog]

Hit the nail on the head with this section about the problems: "It is problematic because the system does not allow students to challenge teachers. When I pose questions, I end up being branded as a problematic youth." I was just thinking about this last night. I was teacher in USA btw, and this is one case where I think I know what I am talking about. When students are challenging the teacher, they are engaged, paying attention, etc (assuming this is on subject, rather than trivial issue). By challenging, I hope that also means asking questions. Learning involves questioning. But the climate of Thai education is such that if a student asks a question, that implies the teacher did a poor job of instruction (so would lose face). That is not real world. People learn in many ways and no teacher can fill all styles in all subjects. I asked my Thai gf if she asked parents questions when they were teaching her something ("of course"), when friend showing how to use an app on phone ("of course"). But Thai students are kicked out of class for doing what I encourage: asking questions. I liked to be challenged on info/subjects. Debate and contrasting ideas are tools for arriving at conclusions, and sharpening thinking skills. I have guest taught some classes in Asia, and the lack of questioning is disconcerting. Almost like being a standup comedian and asking "Is anyone alive out there?" when there is no response or laughter. Students also don't pay attention because they are seen as empty vessels just to pour propaganda and info into. A normal person would zone out. If you want to have students pay attention make it interesting and inviting to them. This change would cost no money. It is the climate that needs to be changed.

[SiggiCM]

first I want to say sorry for my english, but it isn´t my mother language,

Questioning the flag and saluting problem is the right of young people, if you become older you keep going on doing things only because you are used and lazy,

doing this things in scholl doesn´t mean any proud of theit thai country, I can train salute monkeys daily in front of flag, so they would be also good thai peopel?

o make somebody proud of his country means: have a good goverment ith honest people in main places, have a good and fair education system, what allows everybody to get the best educaton for his/her level, a sozial system what suppors the weaker groups in soociety, to have some successful outstanding sportsmen/women, to have some progressive companies, who develop or invent something that everyone needs or wants, a society that treats the various ethnic groups and races fairly and equitably,

so my question,

DID YOU SEE ANYTHING OF THIS IN THAILAND?

This young student has more strength, endurance, courage and risk-taking, than all the smart members here,

He has only 1 Question to us, is this what we want for us, our children and our future, status quo or

we want a change? Chankes starts all the time with 1 step, 1 Question, 1 time say NO,

especially the U.S. citizens should have learned this in their school

this young guy, he could start his words also with: I HAD A DREAM .........

[hellodolly]

"Q : What are the other major problems?

The lack of welfare for both teachers and ........power centralised in the hands of teachers...... ? what? Paradox.

Q : Why do most other students not seem to have any problems with the system?

They don't study.

--------------

I'm surprised ..........but that's how I've always been. - Surprised at a constant?? Paradox

-----

He's not as bright as people make out. He needs to string his words more carefully, or he'll get nowhere!

Sunisa

Kind of harsh but what you say is true. He leaves himself to wide open. On the other hand it is a great start. It gives us hope that the Thailand of today will be a much more educated Thailand in the future.

I whole heartily disagree with his attack on the flag. I feel that the members of any nation should respect their flag and when in a foreign country respect theirs. There is nothing wrong with patriotism. It is the culture that needs changing to compete in the ever changing world. I am not advocating a 100% change but the part that holds students back from learning and not admitting mistakes when they make them.

[hellodolly]

As already stated the kids and students have no wish to learn they are not interested and usually about 15 minutes into a lesson the attention span has gone. ranked bottom out of a TOEFL in all new ASEAN countries. Ask a Philippine why they speak English so well in a very poor education system and the answers i get are because we want to so we can get on in life, as a Thai not nee spike englit. They cant even be bothered to pull the backs of there shoes of their heels just tread them down its easier.

Education begins at home and they dont get it. Pissing in the wind young man.

Typical knee jerk response the kids are stupid because they don't want to learn English.

I will give you a clue. How many English words to you need to know to work in a rice field. You can do it with the fingers on one hand.

There are so many jobs that will never require English yet there are people who would rather than spend the time teaching them more useful things spend it on teaching English.

Yes they speak English very well in the Philippine's are they doing any better than Thailand the poverty is stifling there also. But they can speak English big deal. What is their unemployment rate? As low as Thailand's?

If a student wants to learn English let him/her have a qualified teacher to give the class. The ones who don't want to learn it will just be holding back the ones who do want to learn it and in all likely hood never need English any how. All you have done is succeeded in holding back the ones who do want to learn it.

English is spoken in America still they have people living in the streets. Family's starving. An unemployment rate that is far and above the one the Thai's have. But they can speak English.

[TackyToo]

"Q : What are your views on the Pheu Thai government's education policy?

I don't think they take things seriously." NOBODY takes education seriously in Thailand, least of all these teenage brats. He has not said anything new here or offered anything valuable about how to make the system better. He's simply moaning about being a student.

So what? Others are moaning and groaning about their frustrating life as a foreign teacher.

Maybe you have the time ability and wisdom to teach this 16 year old boy how to make things better from his position in society.

You would earn a lot of respect and admiration for that. Isn't that what you are looking for?

Nah, teenagers think they already know everything anyway. To make matters worse, in Thailand, they lack curiosity and originality in their academics. Oh sure it's there for art, but that's where it stays. Ask teens to be creative in an English writing class and they'll complain that it's boring and they just want to 'play a game.'

Nah, teenagers think they already know everything anyway.

No offense man. However, are you sure you picked the right profession? With a teacher like you discouraging a 16 year young student and claiming omniscience instead of supporting the smallest sprout of courage to think out of the box, I would have left school immediately.

To make matters worse, in Thailand, they lack curiosity and originality in their academics.

A good educator would not complain about the actual situation as he would know why things are like this.

Do you?

And a very good educator would know where to go from here and lead them to find the right path.

Oh sure it's there for art, but that's where it stays.

So what in Singapore a Minister told me: The last 40 years we just needed well-functioning people, now we can afford to produce artists”. No need to tell you- it does not work this way!

Ask teens to be creative in an English writing class and they'll complain that it's boring and they just want to 'play a game.'

And here is a final gentle reminder: As a teacher it is not your duty to ask students to be this or that. It’s your damn job to teach them how to and support them in any afford to transform.

they'll complain that it's boring

Ever asked yourself this question- boredom in a classroom is created by who?

[Skywalker69]

"Q : What are the other major problems?

The lack of welfare for both teachers and ........power centralised in the hands of teachers...... ? what? Paradox.

Q : Why do most other students not seem to have any problems with the system?

They don't study.

--------------

I'm surprised ..........but that's how I've always been. - Surprised at a constant?? Paradox

-----

He's not as bright as people make out. He needs to string his words more carefully, or he'll get nowhere!

Sunisa.

Remember it´s translated from Thai.

[MaxLee]

Better prepare for protection, because the political henchmen mercenaries are everywhere to silence any critics, whether young or old, or even toddlers they won't spare,

any start is slow lets hope it grows...

[marell]

Here's some advice for this boy:

A. Get out of Thailand and observe successful education programs in Singapore, the Philippines and various Western countries.

B. Get a PhD in a Western country that's in the field of Education.

C. Publish a dissertation on the topic.

D. Gain widespread recognition for educational reform.

E. THEN tell the world what to do.

Until then, you are just talking!

Are you speaking from direct personal experience? Is this a description of what you have done? If you feel so strongly about this subject then you have surely followed your own profound advice.

We should bear in mind that this is a sixteen year old student who is trying to address some important issues. Does he have all the answers? Of course not, but he's raising some relevant questions. There's nothing wrong with "just talking" and he should be encouraged, not attacked.

Edited September 1, 2013 by marell

[Noistar]

Education here needs heavy funding from the state, especially in new books, classroom repairs and even electricity in some places. I like the boy in the OP he has a good spirit, I would disagree slightly on the standing before the flag and Thainess in general, I think those things are good because being patriotic is what (if anything) will save this nation and other nations too. But I agree that saluting etc. should not get in the way of learning. One concern I have is the lack of funding in new books, and the growing trend of tablets, gadgets, googling etc. replacing the much more educational individual cross-referencing of books in libraries. Individual cross-referencing and correlation of mass-data is what makes kids grow up into smart adults capable of forming their own conclusions based on information provided in the workplace. Google and wiki have seriously undermined the actual researching and cross-referencing which was part of the learning process in previous generations, and which made people able to process facts by themselves and not just read the finished output on a website. Obviously you can't turn back the clock, and google/wiki are very useful tools, but kids should still study books and cross-reference from an early age, it promotes a critical appraising mind.

School uniforms should be heavily subsidised, free to all except the high-end expensive schools, obviously there are some schemes in place already but I still hear my Thai friends from lower-class backgrounds say they are strugging with new uniforms all the time. And the whole education system needs heavy investment by Ms Yingluck & co, books classrooms and infrastructure that promote healthy and smart kids in ALL parts of Thailand.

Hi yunia - glad to hear you again!

I hope I'm not breaking forum rules by re-using this link from another poster

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23845345

Interesting the bit about spending more on education than thailand's neighbour's but getting the worst results.

Now, I wonder why that might be

[atyclb]

This kid is one of the aberrations in society, he is awake rather than being in a "semi-functional coma"

He forgot to mention "rote learning" and lack of training the mind how to think; critically/analytically nor how corruption in education further damages whatever learning remains.

I have Thai friends like this also. Typically they had trouble growing up as they noticed things most others did not.

I guess its rather difficult to realize you are semi comatose while semi-comatose.

Edited September 1, 2013 by atyclb

[Hornell]

Gosh, some of you write the most unbelievable cr@p! In fact the young man makes a lot of good points - I agree with posters that he should downplay the flag bit - and Yooyung who is obviously an English teacher here makes some equally good and sensible points. I have little experience with the education system in Thailand but I have been involved in management training here for 12 years and so have seen a great deal of the product that this system turns out. I am aware of the dangers of generalisation, but I would say that a combination of the learning by rote system and an ingrained law of the jungle that teachers (and elders) are always right therefore you can't question them has turned out generations of people who can only solve a problem if they already have a template solution for it. They cannot use reasoned argument in applying general principles to arrive at a solution, because they have never been taught to do so. In my experience this applies equally to 20-something junior executives as much as it does to the much older ones. I agree entirely that the arrival of the AEC is going to show up the failings in this country's educational system and I wish the young man and his friends the best of luck, although I confess without much optimism!

[Colabamumbai]

Thai students learn at an early age that it is ok to cheat, unfortunately, I think that this stays with them the rest of their lives. Maybe the dishonesty in Thai society begins here.

[wprime]

It's one thing to question parts of the education system, but when he questions the flag he loses all hope of support from the conservatives.

[Noistar]

Thai students learn at an early age that it is ok to cheat, unfortunately, I think that this stays with them the rest of their lives. Maybe the dishonesty in Thai society begins here.

I don't think that's true of all Thai students.

But that's just an opinion based on my step-daughter and her circle of like-minded friends.

Perhaps they are the exception

[boshidoson]

The questions asked Khun Netiwit seem aggressive, putting him on the defensive. The fact that he has an opinion and is willing to speak his truth is the problem according to the powers that be. Speaking ones mind is not encouraged but discouraged. Students like this are branded troublemakers and pay a price for speaking out. The education system prefers sheeple, not critical thinkers. Teachers that encourage critical thinking are also deemed a problem, unfortunately.

[nachiket]

He did not elaborated how bright he/they are before criticizing system?

Edited September 1, 2013 by nachiket

[PhoenixRising]

As already stated the kids and students have no wish to learn they are not interested and usually about 15 minutes into a lesson the attention span has gone. ranked bottom out of a TOEFL in all new ASEAN countries. Ask a Philippine why they speak English so well in a very poor education system and the answers i get are because we want to so we can get on in life, as a Thai not nee spike englit. They cant even be bothered to pull the backs of there shoes of their heels just tread them down its easier.

Education begins at home and they dont get it. Pissing in the wind young man.

Typical knee jerk response the kids are stupid because they don't want to learn English.

I will give you a clue. How many English words to you need to know to work in a rice field. You can do it with the fingers on one hand.

There are so many jobs that will never require English yet there are people who would rather than spend the time teaching them more useful things spend it on teaching English.

Yes they speak English very well in the Philippine's are they doing any better than Thailand the poverty is stifling there also. But they can speak English big deal. What is their unemployment rate? As low as Thailand's?

If a student wants to learn English let him/her have a qualified teacher to give the class. The ones who don't want to learn it will just be holding back the ones who do want to learn it and in all likely hood never need English any how. All you have done is succeeded in holding back the ones who do want to learn it.

English is spoken in America still they have people living in the streets. Family's starving. An unemployment rate that is far and above the one the Thai's have. But they can speak English.

Actually, you're both wrong. I've spent time in the Philippines, observed classes and taught English there. The reason why they speak English is because all of their subjects are taught in English and if you want to pass from one grade to the next, you absolutely must learn it. Those who don’t probably didn't get a chance to go to school. Not everyone goes.

The economy is so bad there because the government is so corrupt. It discourages foreign investment and the country is heavily overpopulated by comparison with Thailand. Nevertheless, the people are happy to learn English as it gives them an edge up in the job market and a better chance to go overseas to make more money.

All in all, I thoroughly enjoyed teaching the Pilipino children and they loved me too. If the economy were different in the Philippines, I'd much rather be there teaching English than Thailand. It's nice to be appreciated for actually teaching. In Thailand, we just play games with people who are not eager to learn or work hard at becoming proficient. This is certainly not the case in the Philippines.

[PhoenixRising]

The questions asked Khun Netiwit seem aggressive, putting him on the defensive. The fact that he has an opinion and is willing to speak his truth is the problem according to the powers that be. Speaking ones mind is not encouraged but discouraged. Students like this are branded troublemakers and pay a price for speaking out. The education system prefers sheeple, not critical thinkers. Teachers that encourage critical thinking are also deemed a problem, unfortunately.

Right, and if you try to teach these same students to think for themselves in the slightest way, they will take up so much class time it's ridiculous. They have no idea what it means to think critically and if you even encourage these teens to do so they will wonder why you don't just play a funny game or be like their Thai teacher who gives them all the answers to memorize and forget after the exam. Getting Thai student to REALLY THINK HARD is a challenge the size of Mount Everest. They don't like to THINK.

[Phatcharanan]

Right, and if you try to teach these same students to think for themselves in the slightest way, they will take up so much class time it's ridiculous. They have no idea what it means to think critically and if you even encourage these teens to do so they will wonder why you don't just play a funny game or be like their Thai teacher who gives them all the answers to memorize and forget after the exam. Getting Thai student to REALLY THINK HARD is a challenge the size of Mount Everest. They don't like to THINK.

You've given up already.

[PhoenixRising]

"Q : What are your views on the Pheu Thai government's education policy?

I don't think they take things seriously." NOBODY takes education seriously in Thailand, least of all these teenage brats. He has not said anything new here or offered anything valuable about how to make the system better. He's simply moaning about being a student.

So what? Others are moaning and groaning about their frustrating life as a foreign teacher.

Maybe you have the time ability and wisdom to teach this 16 year old boy how to make things better from his position in society.

You would earn a lot of respect and admiration for that. Isn't that what you are looking for?

Nah, teenagers think they already know everything anyway. To make matters worse, in Thailand, they lack curiosity and originality in their academics. Oh sure it's there for art, but that's where it stays. Ask teens to be creative in an English writing class and they'll complain that it's boring and they just want to 'play a game.'

Nah, teenagers think they already know everything anyway.

No offense man. However, are you sure you picked the right profession? With a teacher like you discouraging a 16 year young student and claiming omniscience instead of supporting the smallest sprout of courage to think out of the box, I would have left school immediately.

To make matters worse, in Thailand, they lack curiosity and originality in their academics.

A good educator would not complain about the actual situation as he would know why things are like this.

Do you?

And a very good educator would know where to go from here and lead them to find the right path.

Oh sure it's there for art, but that's where it stays.

So what in Singapore a Minister told me: The last 40 years we just needed well-functioning people, now we can afford to produce artists”. No need to tell you- it does not work this way!

Ask teens to be creative in an English writing class and they'll complain that it's boring and they just want to 'play a game.'

And here is a final gentle reminder: As a teacher it is not your duty to ask students to be this or that. It’s your dam_n job to teach them how to and support them in any afford to transform.

they'll complain that it's boring

Ever asked yourself this question- boredom in a classroom is created by who?

You said, 'No offense man' and continue to offend me even to the extent of swearing AT me. Therefore, it's not worth my time to respond to your rude and ignorant comments.

[Emdog]

"Getting Thai student to REALLY THINK HARD is a challenge the size of Mount Everest. They don't like to THINK." Yes, and Mount Everest has been climbed. New skills and ways of thinking are often resisted at first. If you wish to be a good teacher, you have to be willing to put in all on the line, be real and work your ass off. If you are unwilling or unable to do that, you should get out of the classroom and find an easier job that won't perpetuate the poor performance as things currently stand. You have to be creative, you have to have passion and you have to have endurance to be a teacher worth the name "teacher". It can be a revolutionary job.

[trainman34014]

A bright spark......lets hope it turns into a raging fire.

[Yunla]

Hi yunia - glad to hear you again!

I hope I'm not breaking forum rules by re-using this link from another poster

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23845345

Interesting the bit about spending more on education than thailand's neighbour's but getting the worst results.

Now, I wonder why that might be

Hi Noistar ^^

Yes I'm like herpes, I never really go away. And my guess re; the heavy funding / poor results is down to the large sums being pocketed en-route to the classroom. Its a basic law of social sciences really, you can never actually study society, you can only study the values of humans in a given society. And the sad truth is that stage one of any society that wants to succeed is to basically make stealing (call it corruption or w/e) a no-no. Any society that doesn't treat larceny as a serious crime at the very outset is in big trouble. Because it has endless repercussions and you just can't achieve anything when the funds go skating off in all directions. In many ways the ancient tribal societies were better off because they caught you stealing a goat or w/e and they just dragged you outside town and nailed you to a tree, and kids would go look at you and think "well, I don't know what I want to be when I grow up, but I know I'm not going to be a thief." Education meant something in those days.

Thats offtopic slightly but if Thailand spends more on Ed than nearby nations, and as I think you imply, the money goes astray, there isn't really any other way of discussing it except to say this nation needs a zero-tolerance attitude to theft from the Social Fund. If somebody steals food because they're starving that isn't really an issue, but when somebody pockets large sums of money thats supposed to be for schoolbooks etc., they should go jail and not able to work after that except maybe 7-11.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Yunla

[bumpkin]

as Oscar Wilde said " I wish I was young enough to know everything "

[Jingthing]

Wow!

I bow to you!

Finally someone engages a brain!

Clearly another young mind infected by the f-rang dominated internets ...