Refusing to recognise the validity of newly issued UK passports

[chrisartist]

I recently had a new passport issued. When I went to Chiang Mai Immigration to have my stamps transferred to the new passport, they refused to recognise the validity of the new passport as-is. They wanted me to produce either a receipt for payment for the new passport, or a letter from the British consulate. I understand that this is not a new requirement, but also that it does not exist across all regional offices of the Thai Immigration Police.

It cannot be the responsibility of individual citizens to acquire documents that validate their own passports. They have already jumped through whatever hoops there are to acquire a new passport in the first place, passports wear their validity on their faces, provided that foreign authorities have the means to detect the signs of validity, and anyway, if it is possible to fake a passport it is surely possible to fake a letter from the consulate.

I would like to bring this matter directly to the attention of the Head of Consulate in Bangkok, but before I do, I would like to know the extent of the problem, so that I can document it in my letter: which Immigration offices are making this requirement, and how many people have been asked to meet it.

So, if you are a UK citizen and have been asked to provide external validity of your passport, please can you post and say which regional Immigration Office required this of you? Thanks very much.

Perhaps concerned citizens of other countries could do the same in separate threads.

[glegolo]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

Glegolo

[evadgib]

New passports come with feedback details.

A quick fix would be to ring the Embassy from inside the immigration office & pass the phone to the officer (new passport procedure must surely have been explained via appropriate channels before being implemented).

HTH

Edited September 1, 2013 by evadgib

[PoorSucker]

Same thing happened in Bangkok.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/635134-guarantee-letter-from-uk-embassy-with-new-passport/

[ubonjoe]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS  enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

 

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

 

Glegolo

Same for US embassy. Just a letter with one space for consular officer to write in date of issue then sign and stamp it.

UK embassy has been neglecting to do letters for years unless you asked for it. It's even worse now with the mail in requirement.

Many topics about it on this forum.

[chrisartist]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

Glegolo

The UK authorities do not enclose such a document when they send new passports. The Swedish government would seem to take its responsibilities towards its citizens seriously. The solution you cite is one of a number that I had determined to include in my letter. Thanks for your helpful comment.

[chrisartist]

Just to clarify: the issue is not simply one of requiring that the consular section of a foreign country politely ask the Thai Immigration Police to kindly transfer stamps to a new passport that the Thai Immigration Police already recognise as valid. it is that the Thai Immigration Police are requiring such a letter (or a receipt for payment) because they *do not* recognise the validity of the passport. This came across very clearly in a discussion that I had with an Immigration Officer last week: his rationale was that without external validation, they do not know whether or not a passport is valid, so they do not recognise it as such.

This is a diplomatic matter that has to be resolved between the Thai authorities and the authorities of foreign countries. It is not a matter to be addressed in a feedback from to the people who make the passports. Such forms are for matters of procedure, not foreign relations.

[PoorSucker]

Here's the correct letter.

[cardholder]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

Glegolo

The UK authorities do not enclose such a document when they send new passports. The Swedish government would seem to take its responsibilities towards its citizens seriously. The solution you cite is one of a number that I had determined to include in my letter. Thanks for your helpful comment.

I am not sure that it is a case a government "taking responsibilities.."

Surely, a passport is evidence enough of it's validity and I see no reason for immigration to delve further. They would not question a new passport if you were a new arrival so why do so with a renewed passport (where the holder also has the expired one).

What qwould happen if you were to travel out of Thailand on your new passport and return, with the new passport (and the old one showing the previous stamps). If stamped in successfully would this not be all the evidence Chiang Mai immigration need to make the passport 'valid'.

I imagine the immigration officer on arrival would encourage you to get the stamps transferred asap.

Edited September 1, 2013 by cardholder

[evadgib]

Re #7; In that case why isn't every office doing it?

[jrtmedic]

PoorSucker

Thanks for posting that "letter". It appears to be a rather clumsy attempt at "catch all" and even refers to a "replacement visa" !

If the Thai immigration were to interpret that literally a problem would arise because I do not believe "visas" can be replaced.

[iondricka]

sound like its your embassy is the one that is backing up. mine gave me the letter without me even asking for it when they issued the passport.

[Naam]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

Glegolo

same here! wife got a new passport and the German Embassy automatically issued a letter as mentioned by Glegolo.

[NancyL]

Frankly, it's a problem for the U.K. citizens. Other countries seem to issue the appropriate letter. So it doesn't seem that it's the responsibility of Thai Immigration to change, but rather for the UK embassy to do what every other country does.

FWIW, Hubby transferred his visa extension into a new passport this year and Chiang Mai immigration barely looked at the letter supplied by the U.S. consulate, but they did include it in the stack of paper generated for the transfer.

[phuketrichard]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

Glegolo

America also give you the letter stating a new passport has been issued.stating same

Thai immigration is not wrong or hassling you to request this letter.

[jrtmedic]

I suspect that this has something do with the process.

Brits living in Thailand apply for a new passport via Hong Kong but the passport is issued in the UK and returned direct from the UK to the applicant.

As Thailand is one of the few(only?) country to require the document it is not generated centrally.

Because the British Embassy has been removed from the passport renewal loop there is no chance of a local resolution being implemented. As a result we have ended up with a sloppy system which requires individual passport holders having to request this document after they receive their new passport.

Very Brit should be writing to the Embassy demanding a better solution.

[wayned]

I suspect that this has something do with the process.

Brits living in Thailand apply for a new passport via Hong Kong but the passport is issued in the UK and returned direct from the UK to the applicant.

As Thailand is one of the few(only?) country to require the document it is not generated centrally.

Because the British Embassy has been removed from the passport renewal loop there is no chance of a local resolution being implemented. As a result we have ended up with a sloppy system which requires individual passport holders having to request this document after they receive their new passport.

Very Brit should be writing to the Embassy demanding a better solution.

I am not a Brit but I agree 100%, your elected officials have again made a problem for you to make it easier for themselves and in doing it they have also implemented a system that doesn't work and costs you more money.

[thaicbr]

They want you to provide a receipt so do that. You received a receipt from Hong Kong via Dhl. You also have your old passport.. can't see a problem.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[jpinx]

One year ago I arrived at Bangkok with a virginal UK Passport and was stamped in without a visa for 30 days permit to enter - no questions at all.

[Briggsy]

Good luck at the British Embassy, the world's most unhelpful consular staff, with penty of hostile attitude for afters.

p.s. no chance of dealing with a British national, although if you did they probably would be not much better.

p.p.s I am British.

[jrtmedic]

wayned

The "Elected officials" will have had very little input to this mess. The smear of bureaucracy is, however clear.

The intention I have no doubt was good and sought to reduce passport fraud which emanated from some third world Embassies.

However, as always, the bureaucracy have failed to join all the dots !

[lopburi3]

Actually it has noting to do with passport production AFAIK. I don't believe UK Embassy ever provided such letters but in the past immigration would overlook the lack of them.

[Time Traveller]

If anyone can go to the trouble of making a fake UK passport to fool the Thai immigration, I'm certain that they can also make a fake embassy letter confirming the fake passport's authenticity. Are Thai immigration this stupid, or are they just trying everything to make it difficult for everyone?

Edited September 1, 2013 by Time Traveller

[lopburi3]

It is also a check that the passport was issued as a replacement - not as an extra passport as is often done for frequent travelers and would not be the entry passport so stamps should not be transferred.

[jrtmedic]

"Actually it has noting to do with passport production AFAIK. I don't believe UK Embassy ever provided such letters but in the past immigration would overlook the lack of them."

It is only recently that this has become an issue.

If UK passports were still issued via the British Embassy it would be simple to implement a local solution.

[transam]

How about when you send your stuff off to HK you put an attached note asking for an authentication letter that the new passport (number) is a replacement for the old passport (number). Then see what happens.

[Naam]

a number of countries (one of them the U.S. of A.) exist which accept the validity of a visa in an invalid passport attached to the new passport.

[lopburi3]

"Actually it has noting to do with passport production AFAIK. I don't believe UK Embassy ever provided such letters but in the past immigration would overlook the lack of them."

It is only recently that this has become an issue.

If UK passports were still issued via the British Embassy it would be simple to implement a local solution.

It is only recently that immigration has not allowed exception from UK applicants - from reports I have seen that Embassy never provided them for reasons only known to them - at least as far back as I have followed. It has always been an immigration requirement and most embassies provide routinely.

[BitCon]

Good luck at the British Embassy, the world's most unhelpful consular staff, with penty of hostile attitude for afters.

p.s. no chance of dealing with a British national, although if you did they probably would be not much better.

p.p.s I am British.

agree 100%.

saw the error of my ways long ago and ditched it. now i get good polite helpful service elsewhere. although a little time consuming in deliver of stuff.

[OJAS]

I suspect that this has something do with the process.

Brits living in Thailand apply for a new passport via Hong Kong but the passport is issued in the UK and returned direct from the UK to the applicant.

As Thailand is one of the few(only?) country to require the document it is not generated centrally.

Because the British Embassy has been removed from the passport renewal loop there is no chance of a local resolution being implemented. As a result we have ended up with a sloppy system which requires individual passport holders having to request this document after they receive their new passport.

Very Brit should be writing to the Embassy demanding a better solution.

I just wonder whether, were we to place the onus squarely on the Embassy to devise a better solution, the result might prove even sloppier in practice than the existing arrangement. As I see things, there are 2 points which they do need to address in connection with their procedures.

Firstly, as things stand, we are supposed to turn up in person at the Embassy with our old and new passports for their letter. However, they did, in my case a few months ago, allow me to request the letter by email - although it was made clear to me that I was being granted a special dispensation on the grounds of the expense and inconvenience to me of a physical visit to the Embassy from where I lived.

Clearly the email option should be the standard, rather than the exceptional, one – with the alternative of snail mail available for anyone who was still not on email in this day and age.

Secondly, the Embassy should add relevant information in connection with this letter to the notarial services section of their website. For example, how widely known is it that this is one of the few notarial services for which we are not charged?

Any other specific points worth making to the Embassy as well/instead?

Despite the inaccurate “visa” references in the Embassy’s letter, I am not aware of any reports that letters have been rejected by Immigration on these grounds.

How about when you send your stuff off to HK you put an attached note asking for an authentication letter that the new passport (number) is a replacement for the old passport (number). Then see what happens.

You would, of course, need to include in your note details of your latest entry date into Thailand and “visa” type (not that this should be a problem). However, even if HMPO did issue a letter with your new passport (which strikes me as unlikely), Immigration might in any event reject it on the grounds that it was not issued by the Embassy!

Edited September 1, 2013 by OJAS