Gut bacteria changes linked to weight gain after quitting smoking

[Jingthing]

I wear my pants around my waist. I'm not a hip hop artist.

Some more very interesting and related research about the link of gut bacteria and obesity. Sounds very promising, but if it's for real, the article says it will take 5 years to be available in a pill.

This gut bacteria think might be the big breakthrough the world needs to effectively combat the global obesity epidemic effectively for the masses. Or it might not. Only time will tell but it's great that this research is happening.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/study-right-bacteria-might-help-fight-obesity

WASHINGTON (AP) — Call it a hidden ally: The right germs just might be able to help fight fat.

Different kinds of bacteria that live inside the gut can help spur obesity or protect against it, say scientists at Washington University in St. Louis who transplanted intestinal germs from fat or lean people into mice and watched the rodents change.

And what they ate determined whether the good germs could move in and do their job.

Thursday's report raises the possibility of one day turning gut bacteria into personalized fat-fighting therapies, and it may help explain why some people have a harder time losing weight than others do.

"It's an important player," said Dr. David Relman of Stanford University, who also studies how gut bacteria influence health but wasn't involved in the new research. "This paper says that diet and microbes are necessary companions in all of this. They literally and figuratively feed each other."

[robblok]

I wear my pants around my waist. I'm not a rapper.

Some more very interesting and related research about the link of gut bacteria and obesity. Sounds very promising, but if it's for real, the article says it will take 5 years to be available in a pill.

This gut bacteria think might be the big breakthrough the world needs to effectively combat the global obesity epidemic effectively for the masses. Or it might not. Only time will tell but it's great that this research is happening.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/study-right-bacteria-might-help-fight-obesity

WASHINGTON (AP) — Call it a hidden ally: The right germs just might be able to help fight fat.

Different kinds of bacteria that live inside the gut can help spur obesity or protect against it, say scientists at Washington University in St. Louis who transplanted intestinal germs from fat or lean people into mice and watched the rodents change.

And what they ate determined whether the good germs could move in and do their job.

Thursday's report raises the possibility of one day turning gut bacteria into personalized fat-fighting therapies, and it may help explain why some people have a harder time losing weight than others do.

"It's an important player," said Dr. David Relman of Stanford University, who also studies how gut bacteria influence health but wasn't involved in the new research. "This paper says that diet and microbes are necessary companions in all of this. They literally and figuratively feed each other."

.

Interesting, but so is anything that might help

[Jingthing]

Yes more evidence that the science of obesity is most certainly NOT only about simple math. There is MUCH more to it.

[robblok]

Yes more evidence that the science of obesity is most certainly NOT only about simple math. There is MUCH more to it.

In the end it still is about how much you burn and how much you consume.

The problem is there are variables that influence it and make things harder or easier. However it is still not impossible for people to take control and do something about it.

You don't wake up obese its a process, while there certainly are people that do everything right and still have a hard time loosing weight there are plenty who don't do a thing.

[Jingthing]

In the study the mice that benefited ate a low fat, high fiber diet, indication that not ONLY calories were relevant, but the CONTENT/NATURE of the types of food ingested.

While I don't have the benefit of an artificial thin person gut bacteria injection, I find one thing seems to be beneficial to me now is a rather significant increase in the volume of VEGETABLES that I eat every day.

Obese people in the world if they are to be given a bacteria pill are still going to to have to find a way to change what they eat. So even this kind of revolutionary advance won't help everyone. I'm thinking about poor people in America who simply can't afford fresh produce, don't have access to it, and can only afford and access fast and processed foods.

[robblok]

In the study the mice that benefited ate a low fat, high fiber diet, indication that not ONLY calories were relevant, but the CONTENT/NATURE of the types of food ingested.

I agree there that its better to eat the right kind of food and calories. I am not sure how it translates from mice to humans but there are people who say a calorie is a calorie but im not 100% convinced about that . Stuff like high fructose corn syrup is said to be real bad and such.

But I am not sure how it translates into percentage ect. Same like that proteins take more trouble to digest and burn ect. I would love to see these things worked out.

But then again we are so diverse that what works for one does not work for an other.. take your supplement it did not work on me.

[Jingthing]

Some foods are clearly big trouble, like the corn syrup you mentioned.

White rice vs. brown rice -- obviously the same amount of calories in the brown rice is much better for you.

As I've said before, I don't count calories, but I know I can eat all the broccoli I desire any time I want!

Anyway, the research on humans isn't done, and we don't have this bacteria pill yet, so us mortals have to carry on with what we have and know now.

[robblok]

Some foods are clearly big trouble, like the corn syrup you mentioned.

White rice vs. brown rice -- obviously the same amount of calories in the brown rice is much better for you.

As I've said before, I don't count calories, but I know I can eat all the broccoli I desire any time I want!

I counted calories, haven't for a long time as I now know how much i can eat. I do still monitor my weight and eat healthy.

I am quite boring food wise I eat the same foods quite often. Though i love to go out and eat some vietnamese food with friends. Loads of veggies just a lil bit of meat and nice and spicy. Sometimes go sizler and love the salad bar, or Oishy bufet and eat the salmon and other stuff. Sounds like I eat out a lot but I don't but when I do i choose healthy stuff when possible, but like everyone i let go once in a while too.

Yes you can eat all the broccoli you want, i like eating salad but im often lazy to find a seller of salad or travel a lot to get it. I am organised and like to buy stuff that keeps for a while and that i can stock up on.. salad does not fit that bill. I can't find salad at the market always have to go to a Big C and get it there. Just dont like going 14 km trip (round trip) for some salad.

[Jingthing]

I'm wondering as word spreads about this possible gut bacteria fat fighting revolution, if in the time we wait for a commercial application of this whether there will start to be some kind of underground quack doctor movement with fecal transplants from thin people to fat people. Gross, yes! But I wouldn't be surprised to see it.

Thin people -- I want your bacteria!

[robblok]

I'm wondering as word spreads about this possible gut bacteria fat fighting revolution, if in the time we wait for a commercial application of this whether there will start to be some kind of underground quack doctor movement with fecal transplants from thin people to fat people. Gross, yes! But I wouldn't be surprised to see it.

Thin people -- I want your bacteria!

I was thinking the same thing but not fecal matter.. I mean taking it straight from the gut and then transplanting it to the gut. would not surprise me. 10 years ago a co worker of mine who was real fat was put on a 500cal diet and got HCG (pregnant woman hormone) injections. That was the thing at that time and he was loaded and could pay for the private dr to pay for it. Not sure it helped much actually.

[Jingthing]

Fecal transplants are already an established effective tool for certain gastrointestinal problems. It doesn't sounds appetizing. Again, it wouldn't be surprising if some doctors start experimenting this therapy to treat obese people:

(Don't try this at home ...)

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865579532/Transplanting-ourselves-out-of-obesity.html?pg=all

One can imagine the implications. The ultimate experiment would be to give obese humans the germs from those who have lost weight via the operation.

All of this is possible because the diets we consume may promote certain species of organisms that facilitate obesity by changing the metabolism or liberate more calories for the body to absorb. They have even narrowed the search to four particular species that may be the culprits

.

[partington]

The press reports ( I haven't looked at the original paper, so this may be wrong, given their notorious inability to report science correctly ) seemed to be clearly saying that the non-smokers/obese subjects gut bacteria are digesting more of the plant material, thus making the calories within the plants more available for absorbtion by the gut.

This is how cows digest cellulose from grass, in a stomach that contains large amounts of cellulose-digesting bacteria- so this is a common biological mechanism for making food calories more available.

So if you understand what's happening simple energy balance rules still apply.

For example: a smoker eats a plate of vegetables containing 1000 calories total (what you would get if you burnt the entire thing in a calorimeter say).

His own digestive enzymes make say, 650 calories available, but his gut bacteria do not digest very much of it because there are not enough plant-digesters. Say they digest 100 calories worth. Total: 750 calories to be turned into fat.

Now a non-smoker whose gut contains more of the plant-digesting bacteria eats the same plate containing 1000 calories.

His own digestive enzymes make 650 calories available, but his bacteria digest a lot more, say 250 calories. Total: 900 calories to be turned into fat.

Again it shows that if person X eats 1000 calories, it is not the same as person Y eating 1000 calories: everyone will respond differently. But the response can be understood by measuring energy intake.

If this research has been reported correctly, it implies that you must eat plant/fibre material for it to work, and the miracle pill would actually be something that preferentially kills off your plant/fibre-digesting bacteria......

[Jingthing]

Yes diets must be changed but potentially combined with bacteria therapy, it might be a program that actually has a high long term success rate, when currently very little (nothing) that science offers has anything close to a high long term success rate (short of bariatric surgery which is horrible).

Definition of long term success:

An obese person loses the weight to something like normal weight.

5 years later they are still at normal weight.

[partington]

Sounds like it might be comparatively simple too: a specific antibiotic that is targeted to certain species of gut bacteria.

I should start a company!

[Jingthing]

Sounds like it might be comparatively simple too: a specific antibiotic that is targeted to certain species of gut bacteria.

I should start a company!

I don't know how simple it really will be, but the commercial potential for something like that this that might really work long term is beyond ridiculous.

[partington]

Yeah I was kidding a bit, but one clue is these bacteria obviously don't like something in cigarette smoke. The commercial potential is huge I agree!

[Tolley]

Yes diets must be changed but potentially combined with bacteria therapy, it might be a program that actually has a high long term success rate, when currently very little (nothing) that science offers has anything close to a high long term success rate (short of bariatric surgery which is horrible).

Definition of long term success:

An obese person loses the weight to something like normal weight.

5 years later they are still at normal weight.

You should know by now there are no miracle cures.

There is however plenty of evidence from people who have successfully lost weight and kept it off.

The recurring theme is that they monitor everything they eat and are very proactive in their dietary habits and are very self disciplined.

[Jingthing]

There needs to be non-surgical methods that work for most people long term. There aren't now.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[David48]

I've lost about 12 kgs. over a number of months.

JT ... you know that I will argue passionately if I disagree with what you say ... especially on this issue.

BUT ...

But, congratulations on the weight loss ...

Slow and steady ... easy off and hopefully no issues (tight skin) later for you as the weight recedes.

You must feel better for it?

More energy?

What is the long term goal in kg?

Champion Effort ...

.

[Jingthing]

I've lost about 12 kgs. over a number of months.

JT ... you know that I will argue passionately if I disagree with what you say ... especially on this issue.

BUT ...

But, congratulations on the weight loss ...

Slow and steady ... easy off and hopefully no issues (tight skin) later for you as the weight recedes.

You must feel better for it?

More energy?

What is the long term goal in kg?

Champion Effort ...

.

Thank you.

I am dealing now with the harsh reality of slow down.

I had a 2 kilo loss month but last month only 1 kilo. That was the lowest yet. I think I will be lucky now to keep at 1 kilo loss per month and I have to brace myself psychologically for some months of even poorer results.

I don't want to talk at this point about long term goals before the first level goal of entering into non-obese BMI which is now happily a shorter term goal. But basically I am talking about something spanning multiple years from the start of it. As far as skin issues, I am well over 50 so that's an issue. So far things don't look too bad and there is supposedly a recovery period where things might get better over two years, but it is too early to tell yet if I am going to have a serious loose skin issue if I am so fortunate as to be able to eventually reach a normal weight. I'm not sure yet how I might feel if a major problem like that becomes apparent. I know surgery is possible but it is not trivial surgery.

I know intellectually that slower is better but it still gets frustrating sometimes still being obese and Thai people still calling me fat (bless their hearts) but my focus continues to be to eat and move in a way that I can sustain for the long term, including after I might reach reach a size goal. I don't really feel that I am on a "diet" and that's exactly the way I like it and think it should be (I am a big NON-BELIEVER in "diets"), but I am also very aware of my GOAL of becoming not-fat person and that takes a long time, so as you might imagine, that's a bit of a contradiction. All this might be a way of saying that my struggle now is more psychological than physical.

How do I feel now?

Well I am still obese.

The main health benefits I've noticed so far is easier feeling when exercising on my rower, a tendency towards lower back pain seems to have lessened a lot, and I was even starting to have pain issues in my feet from the weight, and that seems largely relieved as well. As far as overall energy being much higher, not really so much.

Anyway, nobody said dealing with obesity was a cake walk!

[David48]

Anyway, nobody said dealing with obesity was a cake walk!

For a little humour ...

Maybe it more like ...

... walk away from the cake!

[tropo]

I wear my pants around my waist. I'm not a hip hop artist.

sagging.jpg

So you wear your pants up as high as you navel then, because that's where the waist is? Most people wear pants just below the top of the hip bone, not at the waist. If you wear your pants that high (like grandpa), then it's understandable why you're so concerned about your waist girth in relation to pants size.

[Jingthing]

I wear my pants around my waist. I'm not a hip hop artist.

sagging.jpg

So you wear your pants up as high as you navel then, because that's where the waist is? Most people wear pants just below the top of the hip bone, not at the waist. If you wear your pants that high (like grandpa), then it's understandable why you're so concerned about your waist girth in relation to pants size.

My current BMI is 31.6.

My current waist size (pants) is 41".

I don't really think I wear them all THAT unusually high as your Grandpa comment implies. Do you want a picture or something of the OVERHANG?

Anything over 40" is really bad as far as health risks.

The good news for now is that I can realistically envision now getting to 39" and under 30 BMI, technically not "obese" levels.

No that isn't ideal, but it's a good start for a long term obese person.

(No offense intended to real Grandpas who actually do wear their pants as in the picture who might be reading this.)

[Jingthing]

Anyway, nobody said dealing with obesity was a cake walk!

For a little humour ...

Maybe it more like ...

... walk away from the cake!

If only it was that simple and easy. Personally that's never been a problem for me. Cake, that is.

[tropo]

I wear my pants around my waist. I'm not a hip hop artist.

sagging.jpg

So you wear your pants up as high as you navel then, because that's where the waist is? Most people wear pants just below the top of the hip bone, not at the waist. If you wear your pants that high (like grandpa), then it's understandable why you're so concerned about your waist girth in relation to pants size.

My current BMI is 31.6.

My current waist size (pants) is 41".

I don't really think I wear them all THAT unusually high as your Grandpa comment implies. Do you want a picture or something of the OVERHANG?

Anything over 40" is really bad as far as health risks.

The good news for now is that I can realistically envision now getting to 39" and under 30 BMI, technically not "obese" levels.

No that isn't ideal, but it's a good start for a long term obese person.

gramps.jpg(No offense intended to real Grandpas who actually do wear their pants as in the picture who might be reading this.)

IMO using waist size as a measure of health is about as ridiculous as using BMI.

If you wear your pants lower, you can use a lower number. I'm currently fitting 34" pants, which makes me happy, but the legs can a bit tight unless I find baggy styles.

Would you send a picture please? (like that's ever going to happen). You and me both - I'm pretty shy about photos too.

BMI is weight in lbs divided by height in inches, right? I'm nearly the same as you at 32.5 this morning.

[tropo]

Anyway, nobody said dealing with obesity was a cake walk!

For a little humour ...

Maybe it more like ...

... walk away from the cake!

If only it was that simple and easy. Personally that's never been a problem for me. Cake, that is.

I'll have to admit, I find it difficult to walk away from good cake displays..... but usually I do walk. Willpower is something you can strengthen.

[poanoi]

Willpower is something you can strengthen.

How ?

[chiang mai]

After the effort I've put into dietary control over the past nine months, there's nothing that can tempt me, if it's not on my list of approved and sanctioned foods it doesn't stand a chance - I think it's just a state of mind that you get to at some point..

[Jingthing]

Willpower is something you can strengthen.

How ?

I hear self flagellation works a charm!

[Jingthing]

IMO using waist size as a measure of health is about as ridiculous as using BMI.

If you wear your pants lower, you can use a lower number. I'm currently fitting 34" pants, which makes me happy, but the legs can a bit tight unless I find baggy styles.

Would you send a picture please? (like that's ever going to happen). You and me both - I'm pretty shy about photos too.

BMI is weight in lbs divided by height in inches, right? I'm nearly the same as you at 32.5 this morning.

That's your opinion only.

Looking at numbers, BMI and waist size is standard mainstream stuff.

I can look in the mirror and know I'm obese so it doesn't really matter at this point anyway as long as I'm moving in the right direction!

I won't be surprised if I still look obese at just under 30 BMI and 39 waist but it will still represent meeting a significant starting goal for me.

Actually I expect I'll still be looking quite fat at that point.

Everyone is different.

If you don't find looking at these numbers meaningful, then they're not for you, but I am sure they are meaningful and useful to a lot of people.

I also get it that BMI doesn't work for bodybuilders. What percentage of people do you reckon are bodybuilders?

I don't expect you to ever change your opinion and that really isn't the point either.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/obesity/BMI/bmicalc.htm