The 90-day hassle: Why?

[OJAS]

IMPORTANT: this topic is not about the so-called 90-day address report, ie the notification of staying in Thailand longer than 90 days with the form TM.47. There are many recent topics on this subject where you can go and add your valuable thoughts. Therefore, please do not litter this topic with off-topic posts about the 90-day address report.

This topic is about a foreigner, Mark Knowles, who

• got a multiple-entry non-B visa to take up employment at a Thai company,
• apparently did not realise that this visa allows stays in Thailand of only 90 days at a time,
• either does not know about the extension of stay for employment or does not qualify for it,
• and now complains about the "hassle" of having to leave and re-enter Thailand every 90 days.

Off-topic posts and replies to them have been deleted and will continue to be deleted without further ado.

one correction having seen the visa page it was a single entry non-B visa to take up employment at a Thai company,

Why did Mr Knowles choose not to reveal his identity in the PG article as reported in the OP? Or did the editor of that august periodical make that decision for him? Is this exaggerated nonsensical rant typical of the PG's standard of reporting?

[Maestro]

I've lived in Thailand for three years. During the initial year I had to do the same, travelling eight hours to the nearest point in Mae Sai, into Burmah for 2 minutes to get passport stamped. A stay overnight and then another 8 hours home. A real pain and an expense I hadn't planned for.

What visa did you have during that first year when you had to make border runs?

[Maestro]

sometimewoodworker, having seen that the visa is a single-entry non-B do you know why Mr Knowles wrote that he has a "one-year non-immigrant B visa" in the story he sent to Phuket Gazette? Could you persuade Mr Knowles to sign up on Thaivisa and post in this topic to clarify his visa status?

[Maestro]

Why did Mr Knowles choose not to reveal his identity in the PG article as reported in the OP? Or did the editor of that august periodical make that decision for him? Is this exaggerated nonsensical rant typical of the PG's standard of reporting?

Mr. Knowles's name is in fact revealed in the Phuket Gazette article. That's where I got it from. At the bottom of the OP, click on the link to the online article and scroll down to the end.

[Maestro]

Reading the OP once more I think I have found the key to this intriguing puzzle in this text passage:

From the point of view of investment, these all add up to a clear disincentive to establishing a small company requiring foreign expertise here in Thailand.

Mr Knowles is not an employee of the Phuket Gazette. He is a freelance journalist who established his own company in Thailand, probably recently, and the job title in his work permit is “foreign expert” or something like that.

There remains, though, the puzzling question why he wrote that he has a multiple-entry non-B visa when according to an eye-witness report from a ThaiVisa member it is a single-entry non-B visa. After all, his rant is based mainly on his perplexity as to why he has to leave and re-enter Thailand every 90 days despite having a multiple-entry visa, and he has nicely outlined on a map 18 places he plans to visit for these trips. I look forward to reading his photo reports about these future trips, having found the recent article about his trip to Sabah quite interesting.

[Tchooptip]

A one year extension of permission of stay for work fixes that. Been doing it for 20 years so not sure what the 90 day border run complaint is all about, or am I missing something.

Glad you'r a mod Tywais for I too thought I was missing something.

[sikishrory]

If you are working on a Non-B visa and have a valid passport and work permit, I do not understand why you are doing a 90 day boarder run. Maybe you should pop along to the immigration office in Phuket and see what they actually want you to do. I used to live and work at a school in Si Sa Ket and never had to do a boarder run for the 90 day report.

There is no minimum income requirement for teachers and a few other jobs. However, for example a cook from the UK must for instance make at least 50,000 a month to get an extension of stay.

A cook from Singapore needs an income of 45,000 a month and a cook from Brasil 35,000 a month while a cook from Nigeria needs an income of 25,000 baht to get an extension of stay from immigration.

How do you know this? not questioning whether it's true just curious. it is good information.

I am chef from australia

[Maestro]

There is no minimum income requirement for teachers and a few other jobs. However, for example a cook from the UK must for instance make at least 50,000 a month to get an extension of stay.

A cook from Singapore needs an income of 45,000 a month and a cook from Brasil 35,000 a month while a cook from Nigeria needs an income of 25,000 baht to get an extension of stay from immigration.

How do you know this? not questioning whether it's true just curious. it is good information.

I am chef from australia

It is in Annex A of Police Order 777/2551.

Thai Police Order 777/2551 basis for extension of stay

[OJAS]

Why did Mr Knowles choose not to reveal his identity in the PG article as reported in the OP? Or did the editor of that august periodical make that decision for him? Is this exaggerated nonsensical rant typical of the PG's standard of reporting?

Mr. Knowles's name is in fact revealed in the Phuket Gazette article. That's where I got it from. At the bottom of the OP, click on the link to the online article and scroll down to the end.

Phuket Gazette Mark Knowles.jpg

A-ha thanks, I can see his name now! Regarding your following post I suspect that a more appropriate job title in his work permit would be "rabble-rouser" judging from the tone of some of the comments on his article on the PG website (which really do beggar belief IMHO)!

[Maestro]

You read that, too. The rabble he roused, I like that

[JLCrab]

Former US President Harry Truman once said: It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours.

So a logical Visa/Immigration policy in Thailand is one where you can get a long-term extension of stay and an illogical system is one where you can't get a long-term stay extension of stay.

Edited September 16, 2013 by JLCrab

[OJAS]

Former US President Harry Truman once said: It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it's a depression when you lose yours.

So a logical Visa/Immigration policy in Thailand is one where you can get a long-term extension of stay and an illogical system is one where you can't get a long-term stay extension of stay.

Not sure whether Mr K has actually been refused a long-term extension of stay. The impression I get from his article is that it hasn't occurred to his thick head to even bother applying for one!

[samran]

Is this what passes for journalism down in Phuket?

I'm not sure but it looks to me like a letter to the editor sent by Mark Knowles that the Phuket Gazette published.

P.S. Come to think of it, seeing that Phuket Gazette published it as an opinion pieces and created its own graphic with red arrows to go with it, it looks more like Mark Knowles is an employee of that esteemed publication.

Mark should changes his surname from Knowles to Knows-nothing. He clearly hasn't researched his options very well. This article should really be a whinge about why his work doesn't pay him enough to get a WP and proper extension of stay.

[jpeg]

One of my Thai businessmen friends stated many years ago 'They make the farang leave the country every three months, why? Stupid'! So, answers (logical ones) on a postcard ....

[Fookhaht]

Most professions require that you have a minimum income, if you don't meet that minimum income requirement you can get a work permit but will not get an extension of stay from immigration. Hence you have to leave the country every 90 days.

For most western nationalities that minimum income is 50,000 a month.

That knocks about 90% of foreign teachers right out of the ballpark. Are you SURE the 50K is the minimum income for foreign workers where the average teaching pay is 20-25K?

[Tywais]

Most professions require that you have a minimum income, if you don't meet that minimum income requirement you can get a work permit but will not get an extension of stay from immigration. Hence you have to leave the country every 90 days.

For most western nationalities that minimum income is 50,000 a month.

That knocks about 90% of foreign teachers right out of the ballpark. Are you SURE the 50K is the minimum income for foreign workers where the average teaching pay is 20-25K?

As mentioned before teachers do not have that requirement.

[ubonjoe]

There is no minimum salary for teachers.

Only extensions for working under clause 2.1 of police order 777/2551 have a minimum salary requirement.

Teaching is clauses 2.6 and 2.7.

[lee b]

Oh how i just love the visa situation here

[samran]

One of my Thai businessmen friends stated many years ago 'They make the farang leave the country every three months, why? Stupid'! So, answers (logical ones) on a postcard ....

Well, they don't make you leave every 90 days.

Is that short enough for you?

[mallyrd]

If as a teacher they are not subject to the same rules - those working for private employers are subject to both company requirements and income by nationality requirements even after having obtained a work permit if they want an extension of stay. In most cases new company employment will mean more than a year of not being able to obtain extension and often much longer due requirement for last years tax paperwork..

I'm married maybe that is the difference.

My wife set up a sole priority ship, we applied for TAT license, work permit and extension of stay. All done in 1 month after getting shop papers.

Immigration asked for 1 year tax papers and 3 months salary and social security for staff. Explained we not have due opening shop only 3 weeks ago, see shop papers and it was no problem.

We did this in July 2010, don't know if the rules are changed or the marriage was the benefit. I still have extension of stay based on my NON-B visa.

I suspect you have an extension of stay based upon marriage.

You would not be able to get an extension based upon working with a sole proprietorship business. Which you implied you have when you incorrectly called it a B visa.

I attached my visa as you can see it is a NON=B

The dates on the visa do not gel with the dates in your post wherein you say "We did this in July 2010......"

[Maestro]

Oh how i just love the visa situation here

There are only 31 basic types of extensions of stay, numbered from 2.1 to 2.31 in Police Order 777/2551 and Immigration Bureau Order Immigration Bureau Order 305/2551. The good news is that a foreigner can always stop by his local immigration office and they will gladly inform him what extension is available for his particular situation and needs, or he can post on this forum to ask for information. When visiting the immigration office for information it is a good idea to have a person speaking Thai with you as not all offices may at all times have an officer with good English skills on duty. After that first extension, it is quite easy to do it alone because the officer will see what you are there for on the basis of your previous extension and the documents you present, except that for extensions for the reason to live with a family member of Thai nationality, that family member will have to accompany you to the immigration office.

[Maestro]

Eager to help Mr Knowles see light at the end of the tunnel I posted this comment on his article in Phuket Gazette:

The limitation to 420 characters for the comment did not allow me to go into greater detail. I would have liked to give a link to this here topic but no links are allowed and therefore I made this public post with the link on Google+ on the slim chance that Mr Knowles may see it.

[HOOD Robin]

i fullyy agree with Lite Beer! Why all this hassle to risk our lifes in those "suicide vans" with incompetent drivers who cares a shit with the lifes of their passengers. It's all good business for the sooooo many visa run companies PLUS those crooks waiting at the border and picking out the "weak" farangs to rip them of....

i agree that rules and laws have to be respected, but why just dont do it in the local Immigration offices instead of heading to neighbouring countries, loosing a full day, getting annoyed with some hot shots in the van and/or the driver who constantly is calling very loud, (again) risking your life etc...

Do we see that in the West that foreigners have to leave the country every 90 days ????

What would they do without all those Foreign $$$ ?? (but i guess that's another topic, isnt' it ?)

[ALFREDO]

Oh how i just love the visa situation here

There are only 31 basic types of extensions of stay, numbered from 2.1 to 2.31 in Police Order 777/2551 and Immigration Bureau Order Immigration Bureau Order 305/2551. The good news is that a foreigner can always stop by his local immigration office and they will gladly inform him what extension is available for his particular situation and needs, or he can post on this forum to ask for information. When visiting the immigration office for information it is a good idea to have a person speaking Thai with you as not all offices may at all times have an officer with good English skills on duty. After that first extension, it is quite easy to do it alone because the officer will see what you are there for on the basis of your previous extension and the documents you present, except that for extensions for the reason to live with a family member of Thai nationality, that family member will have to accompany you to the immigration office.

Maestro, I love and appreciate your work here on Thai Visa, "but" here have to write,

similar, after the first visit, visits, it is enough to have all papers and copies signed with you, to get your extension of stay.

Regarding -

"except that for extensions for the reason to live with a family member of Thai nationality, that family member will have to accompany you to the immigration office."

Not necessary to have the children with you anymore, after I had some extensions. At least not in Udon Thani Immigration.

AND - I would love to have the Cambodian Immigration laws in Thailand to, just order an Agent to meet you, pay and get your Passport later delivered with the new extension! No problems, no Visa runs, no nothing, no time lost, no dangerous expensive trips.

For some that would make their Thai stay more expensive, a bit, but for most it would make it much more easy!

Also regarding work permit! About 350.-Dollar a year, for what work ever you like to do!

Edited October 3, 2013 by ALFREDO

[Maestro]

You're right there. It's the wife they want to see for every extension for the marriage extension, usually not the children, who may anyway have to be in school, for the parent extension.