Speaking Thai in Thailand is Useless

[Richard W]

Well, if you are already "wasting your time" by living in this country, it helps immensely to be able to speak the local tongue.

I live in CM, central Thai only language speaking people are in the minority, and most of them aren't worth speaking to anyway....

Nearly all the people living around me are Burmese, they live and work here, but don't speak Thai.

I think FiftyTwo is being pedantic. His primary point is that the mother tongue of most people in his area is not Central Thai, but rather Northern Thai. Therefore, if he were to learn the local tongue, he would learn Northern Thai.

As to the 'Burmese', it seems a lot of Thais think of the people of the Hill Tribes as citizens of Burma rather than citizens of Thailand, even though the Burmese officials demur. I would take it at that level of precision.

[bifftastic]

I spend my time in the North as well, and whilst I have picked up a few words of Northern Thai, I have only been able to do that because I have some Central Thai as well. If I hadn't any Thai at all, the Northern Thai speakers wouldn't have been able to give me the smattering of Northern Thai that I have, because they wouldn't have been able to translate it. "in Thai we say <whatever it is> but in Isaan/Kmer/KamMeuang we say <whatever it is>"

Central Thai will enable you to talk to most people in Thailand, even if they speak another Thai language.

[FiftyTwo]

"Thais are generally a dull and poorly educated bunch.

the argument about it not being used anywhere else is the dumbest of arguments as you are not living in those other places. Spanish isn't going to help you much in asia and neither is chinese unless you are in China. The worst part of that argument is that learning 1 additional or 6 additional languages doesn't take any more effort. It is not like you lose the 2nd language when you learn a 3rd or 4th.

I used to be able to speak French, Spanish and German ........ but I have now lost them due to disuse.

Just English and central Thai now.

You'd be surprised how many speak Chinese in Thailand.

HMong and Shan hill tribes for a start all speak Chinese.

[FiftyTwo]

Depends on what you really wanted. If you wanted a can of Lipton Ice Tea, you should have said "ice tea" man, because that's what a Thai also would have said.

This is because "cha yen" in Thai means a particular kind of tea mixed with milk.

Just google ชาย็น and you'll see pics of what it looks like.

But if you really wanted that kind of milk tea, then you were right to use that word. But I doubt so because a vendor who sells these kinds of tea would normally not have beer.

All my local coffee shops sell Cha yen ..... usually with Lipton tea bags and no milk unless you ask for different.

Times are changing.

Edited October 18, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[kevozman1]

The bottom line is, If you cannot read Thai well, you almost certainly do not speak clearly or properly.

Ah, so the numerous Thais in Isaan who speak fluent Thai and yet have virtually no reading skills must all be special cases then I assume? This post actually got some likes also, from some other slightly confused TV members.

[DavidMavec]

The bottom line is, If you cannot read Thai well, you almost certainly do not speak clearly or properly.

Ah, so the numerous Thais in Isaan who speak fluent Thai and yet have virtually no reading skills must all be special cases then I assume? This post actually got some likes also, from some other slightly confused TV members.

I should have qualified my post by saying "Thai language learners whose native language is Indo-European". There are some exceptions, I know, but they are few and far between.

Isaan/Lao is extremely similar to Thai; the definition of "dialectic" is debated but the similarities would likely fall within.

[Mole]

I would say that the Thai "dialects" are about as different as Norwegian/Danish/Swedish. Linguistically the Thai dialects would have been considered a language on their own, but culturally they're only called "dialect".

The various Shan/Tai dialects is like Icelandic/Faroese.

[Mole]

Depends on what you really wanted. If you wanted a can of Lipton Ice Tea, you should have said "ice tea" man, because that's what a Thai also would have said.

This is because "cha yen" in Thai means a particular kind of tea mixed with milk.

Just google ชาย็น and you'll see pics of what it looks like.

But if you really wanted that kind of milk tea, then you were right to use that word. But I doubt so because a vendor who sells these kinds of tea would normally not have beer.

All my local coffee shops sell Cha yen ..... usually with Lipton tea bags and no milk unless you ask for different.

Times are changing.

This is weird, I drink this ชาเย็น all the time and all the vendors that sells this all prepare it with milk.

Also, they do not use tea bags, but they'll have this special equipment where they'll prepare the coffeee and tea for you fresh.

For the same tea, but without milk, the term is "ชาตำเย็น".

If you google both terms you will immediately see the difference in the pics that you get.

I'm pretty confident that if you order "ชาเย็น" in any restaurants or anywhere which sells this, you will get it with milk.

This is because I usually order this almost anywhere and so far has ALWAYS got it the way it's supposed to be.

Maybe the staff see that you're a farang and give you acordingly. If any Thai order "ชาเย็น" and got something with a tea bag in it, they'd be like &lt;deleted&gt;...

[zeichen]

I find it funny that people are promoting the local dialects. Living in Chiang Mai for over 12 years I rarely hear people fully communicate in other dialects. Apart from laborers and the ladies at the market all of my conversations are in Thai.

I try to pick up a few things here and there but overall Thai is useful and have aided in my acceptance and respect from my neighbors.

Reading and writing have nothing to do with oral conversation. I will acknowledge that learning the written language will aid in acquiring vocabulary, and understanding things in context.

[spidermike007]

It hasnt really helped at all as when I am in a restaurant or venue and order in what I think is perfect Thai, they just look at me with the look of a Phnom Phenn Motorcycle Taxi driver, then look at the Thai I am with for confirmation. She/he says exactly the same thing as I just said then everything is ok.

Lived in Thailand 11 years, and this has happened to me uncountable times.

Showed a Japanese friend around Thailand for a week (who didn't speak Thai), and it was hilarious to watch the service sector people ignore me and look at him, although I was obviously the one asking for service. I would continue to talk in Thai, they would continue to stare at my Japanese friend (ignoring me), until he would shake his head "no" and point at me. Even then, some would refuse to turn their attention to the non-asian foreigner. After a couple of instances like this, we decided to get up and leave the premises because of this rude behavior. As we would start to get up to leave, suddenly, the service-person could understand my Thai.

A good number of Thais just cannot imagine that Thai words would come out of a farang face. So, they take the easy way out: ignore the farang and stare at the Asian until they talk. In many, many cases, it's just a lazy, xenophobic, or paranoid reaction vs. really trying to make an effort to communicate.

NOTE: My long-time Thai friends tell me that my Thai is understandable. That's after I press them to be direct (some of them already are), and take into consideration my long vowels & tones, and accent. When I speak over the phone to strangers, I am often mistaken for a Thai. When my Thai companion, at a service venue, repeats the exact same thing I do, to the service person, and they are understood--I ask my Thai friend, "Did I not say it exactly like you did? Tones, vowels, and all?" Most of the time the answer is in the affirmative.

The problem is just as much in the listener as the speaker, I contend.

Very good points indeed. I think one of the issues seems to be the lack of colonization. Since the Thais have had very little historical interrelationships over the past several decades, it has made them very insular. They just do not seem to be able to pick up sounds and tones that are unlike their own. And they do not seem to be open minded enough, nor motivated enough to make an attempt to figure out what you are saying. In many Latin American countries I have visited, if you ask where is the closest beach, and botch the grammar, they will always get it, and give you directions. If you get only the works where and beach correct, they are able to use their creative juices to figure it out. Here, that is simply not the case. A very rare Thai will be able to extrapolate real meaning from just a few words that they understood. It is as much a cultural issue, and a language issue. Very few farangs are going to be as proficient as a Thai, when it comes to the tones, and proper pronunciation. But, I do find the little bit of Thai I use goes a long way here.

[Tomtomtom69]

I ve experienced such things so many times that I say something in thai and they act like they dont understand. It is simply because thais do not like seeing foreigners trying to integrate into the society and speaking the language is a clear sign of that. But it doesn't bother me, I usually let them know that I know they speak thai therefore they understand me even if I have an accent. So it's either they stop refusing to understand me or we are going to sit there all day until they start to speak their language. They always get the point.

My ex gf is from a wealthy family. She is highly educated and is fluent in english. She literally hated if I spoke thai and it bothered her. But she was not alone with that insecurity. I have met several people who share the same trait. I have always felt for them.

Regarding to directions, I am surprised most of them are able to find their way back home.

But dont get me wrong, I like thais. They are cool. But it's just the way they are.

Sent from one of my devices using the internet

That's what I used to think or experience (years ago) but things have changed to the point that even the most well educated Thais with impeccable English (well there really aren't that many who can speak such good English) still preferring to speak Thai with me once it becomes clear that I am as good or better at Thai as they are at English. So the question is, how good is your Thai? Because a foreigner with only mediocre Thai skills probably won't get much respect from the types of people you have mentioned.

[Tomtomtom69]

Did it perhaps occur to you that those people are merely trying to use the opportunity to practice their English exactly the same way you try to use Thai as often and as many people as you can?

You should not be so narrow minded and just let them communicate in whatever language they'd like with you.

You say feel that THEY are rude for not speaking Thai to you. But You on the other hand are quite arrogant in that you chose not to even make the effort to respond to them at all because of their inferior English.

Just think back when your Thai wasn't really that good yet and what if you got the same attitude from somebody else.

I hope in a few years time, you may speak with this person again and his English may have improved considerably. But his feelings about you and how you shunned him in the past, this may not have improved...

I also disagree that in order to speak fluently in a language you should also be able to read and write. Actually, there mere fact that there exist illiterate people in the world, but still be able to speak their language(s) fluently refutes your statement.

I'm not sure if you were responding to me or others, but in my case, I don't have the time or patience to practice English with every ordinary Thai. I am not an English teacher and even if I was, I wouldn't give out free lessons. I have already mentioned that I would be willing to occasionally speak English or another language (such as Chinese) with a Thai that I already know. And for every person like me who can speak Thai, there are hundreds of other foreigners a Thai can practice their English with who don't speak a word of Thai - so they really don't need to practice with me. If I am living in Thailand, I don't want to spend everyday on an issue like this - fortunately I don't. It's hard enough avoiding all the discrimination and other issues you experience living in Thailand without having to add another one to the mix.

I am going to continue with what I am doing now - I am doing very, very well with my Thai language skills and that will never change as long as I decide to live in, visit or do business in Thailand.

Also, I don't see Thailand's level of English improving in the future - not unless the country greatly changes it's attitude towards foreign languages and foreigners.

[Tomtomtom69]

I have found that speaking Thai beyond a basic level isn't worth the extra time it would take to achieve a higher level of fluency. While daily interactions require some Thai, how many of us have really benefited in any tangible way from being able to speak Thai well? Did speaking Thai make the bureaucrats at immigration any easier to deal with? Did the shopkeepers give you a discount because you were able to converse with them in their native language? Did the guards at Wat Po let you in for free because you could read the Thai signs? How many of those conversations with taxi drivers, security guards, or street vendors were actually insightful?

Keep in mind, though, that all of this is my experience as a Bangkokian. If I lived upcountry perhaps I would worry more about social isolation, but here in Bangkok that is not an issue.

I believe my life has been greatly enhanced by being able to speak something better than very basic, heavily accented Thai. Speaking Thai has, in the past, been immensely helpful at immigration. I have had countless shopkeepers give me the local price because not only did I speak decent Thai, but I was willing to take my time and engage them in respectful conversation. Can't speak for Wat Po, but I have many times been allowed in at "local prices" after reading the entry fees posted in Thai, including the reading of Thai numerals. There are many westerners these days who speak far better Thai than do I as I have not lived full time in the Kingdom for over 20 years now and my language skils have greatly suffered. But I daresay that my countless conversation with taxi drivers, street vendors, and countless other ordinary Thais over the past 30 years has given me far greater insight into the culture than do many who now speak better Thai than myself. But then again I don't spend any time in Bangkok,a metropolis that is far more Chinese than it is Thai.

Bangkok is not Chinese at all, even if a significant number of it's population is of ethnic Chinese descent (usually mixed ethnic Chinese and Thai or Lao, Phuan, or others) but generally speaking they can't speak Chinese anymore as Thailand was very successful at integrating immigrants in the past and forcing them to become "Thai" by essentially giving up on their previous culture and language. Ethnic Chinese in Malaysia and Singapore can still mostly speak Chinese, but apart from a few elderly Chinese Thais in Chinatown who I might first mistake for mainland Chinese tourists, very, very few Thais (unless they are studying Chinese now for business, study or other purposes) can speak or read any Chinese at all.

[Tomtomtom69]

Did it perhaps occur to you that those people are merely trying to use the opportunity to practice their English exactly the same way you try to use Thai as often and as many people as you can?

You should not be so narrow minded and just let them communicate in whatever language they'd like with you.

You say feel that THEY are rude for not speaking Thai to you. But You on the other hand are quite arrogant in that you chose not to even make the effort to respond to them at all because of their inferior English.

Just think back when your Thai wasn't really that good yet and what if you got the same attitude from somebody else.

I hope in a few years time, you may speak with this person again and his English may have improved considerably. But his feelings about you and how you shunned him in the past, this may not have improved...

I also disagree that in order to speak fluently in a language you should also be able to read and write. Actually, there mere fact that there exist illiterate people in the world, but still be able to speak their language(s) fluently refutes your statement.

Have you also ever considered that most Thais speak poor English and that speaking English when you can speak excellent Thai is so counterproductive as to be ridiculous? Of course this applies only to very few people and clearly not yourself, but when you're in my situation you would know how I would feel if that were to happen to me. If we're talking about a situation where an intricate understanding on the part of both parties is important, such as when you are discussing an insurance report, need to get a refund for an unused ticket, go to the hospital and explain your symptoms when you are sick, in an emergency or any other type of situation (even an everyday situation like finding out where the nearest vegetarian restaurant is, or the location of the bus station, the opening times of a certain store etc. etc.) all these things can get lost in translation - even in places where you initially find people who appear to speak good English only to find that both parties got confused or one party (usually the foreigner) thought the local could understand him/her when they couldn't.

Be my guest and play such games if you want - I don't and there's nothing you can do to change that. Nearly everyone I interact with likes me and I act in a natural, efficient manner. I'm by nature a modest person. I may speak and read, write better Thai than practically every other foreigner in Thailand but I'm certainly not going to boast about it on a public forum or anywhere else for that matter; for me, my knowledge of the language is simply a given necessity for living in the country. Thai is just like any other language to me and I don't feel special for my knowledge of the language. I know it to get by, as simple as that. However, right now my focus is on Chinese - a language I really need to improve my skills in.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Tomtomtom69

[DavidMavec]

Did it perhaps occur to you that those people are merely trying to use the opportunity to practice their English exactly the same way you try to use Thai as often and as many people as you can?

You should not be so narrow minded and just let them communicate in whatever language they'd like with you.

You say feel that THEY are rude for not speaking Thai to you. But You on the other hand are quite arrogant in that you chose not to even make the effort to respond to them at all because of their inferior English.

Just think back when your Thai wasn't really that good yet and what if you got the same attitude from somebody else.

I hope in a few years time, you may speak with this person again and his English may have improved considerably. But his feelings about you and how you shunned him in the past, this may not have improved...

I also disagree that in order to speak fluently in a language you should also be able to read and write. Actually, there mere fact that there exist illiterate people in the world, but still be able to speak their language(s) fluently refutes your statement.

Have you also ever considered that most Thais speak poor English and that speaking English when you can speak excellent Thai is so counterproductive as to be ridiculous? Of course this applies only to very few people and clearly not yourself, but when you're in my situation you would know how I would feel if that were to happen to me. If we're talking about a situation where an intricate understanding on the part of both parties is important, such as when you are discussing an insurance report, need to get a refund for an unused ticket, go to the hospital and explain your symptoms when you are sick, in an emergency or any other type of situation (even an everyday situation like finding out where the nearest vegetarian restaurant is, or the location of the bus station, the opening times of a certain store etc. etc.) all these things can get lost in translation - even in places where you initially find people who appear to speak good English only to find that both parties got confused or one party (usually the foreigner) thought the local could understand him/her when they couldn't.

Be my guest and play such games if you want - I don't and there's nothing you can do to change that. Nearly everyone I interact with likes me and I act in a natural, efficient manner. I'm by nature a modest person. I may speak and read, write better Thai than practically every other foreigner in Thailand but I'm certainly not going to boast about it on a public forum or anywhere else for that matter; for me, my knowledge of the language is simply a given necessity for living in the country. Thai is just like any other language to me and I don't feel special for my knowledge of the language. I know it to get by, as simple as that. However, right now my focus is on Chinese - a language I really need to improve my skills in.

How many years would you estimate it took you to get to such a high level? How much did you study per day/week etc during this time? Do you have a job that puts you in a Thai environment? Do you have any tips besides what you have outlined (i.e. not allowing English to interfere) to improve? Any good places to go or people to talk to?

[Maestro]

Removed a flame and the replies to it.

[Puccini]

...For the same tea, but without milk, the term is "ชาตำเย็น"...

Is it really ตำ, not ดำ ?

[Mole]

It's ดำ sorry for the typo

[Mole]

There are plenty of farangs out there who have learned to speak Thai like a native as in you wouldn't be able to tell on the phone.

[wrevelate]

i totally relate to the frustrations that accompany speaking thai in thailand, especially bangkok. i speculate that it is the frequency of our voices, and the way we vibrate our vocal chords that throws thais off when trying to listen. even if we do get everything else correct, our voices will project at a different frequency - and correspondingly, require the listener to adjust to the this frequency. this, coupled with the fact they think there's no way in hell that a farang can speak thai, causes them to be thrown off from the get go, and causes a reactionary "what?" or a terribly contorted disgusted face, depending on the person.

My solution which does help a little is to always start off by saying "sawatdi khrap สวัสดีครับ" then waiting for them to respond back with "sawatdi khrap สวัสดีครับ" to prepare them for the ensuing interaction which will be in thai.

Edited October 23, 2013 by wrevelate

[Jayroo]

" ... in what I think is perfect Thai ... "

Possibly, Thais think differently.

Thais are extremely fixed on inflection. I once ordered a "Mocha Moolatte" at my local DQ. After about a half dozen attempts at it, a Thai explained that I wanted a Mo-KAAAA Moolatte. That's when they figured it out.

They even try to correct your English if they don't understand something, like the other day I wanted a Deluxe Cheeseburger, I rang maccas and went through the English options, and she said "no Mr, it's deloox" umm ok lol

and another time I wanted to borrow an iron at a hotel, and receptionist said, "noo mr it's I-Ron", putting emphasis on the 'r' lol.

[Jayroo]

following what Curt said above, it really comes down to saying it like a Thai. For example you might order a sprite in Thai, and say everything fine, but then when you say "Sprite", rather than "Sa-prite", they get confused. I've found i'm best understood when I adopt the Thai accent for things, no matter how humiliating it is lol...

omg right, they don't even understand coke, the most popular soft drink in the world, you still have to say, "cork"

[Jayroo]

i suspect you dont "pood chart".

i also find speaking thai incredibly useful for shooting the shit with the locals on my doorstep and getting what i want.

if someone doesn't get it i say it again or circumlocute until i am understood. usually only has to happen once.

personally i believe my thai is &lt;deleted&gt;, and because of that when i am not understood by a native speaker i look back to myself for fault, not the person who speaks the language fluently.

yeah but even then it begs the question, are they genuinely not undstanding you, or they don't want you to know you are saying it correcty.

[Jayroo]

It most certainly is worth learning Thai but I do understand what the OP is referring to. If you don't use the correct Thai accent and aren't very careful with tones many of the people you may speak to seem completely lost (particularly the less educated in my experience). Often it seems as if Thais fail to take the context of the conversation in to account. For example, there is one clerk at my local 7/11 who doesn't understand 'hotdog', 'sangsom', and several other words until they are repeated to her by her colleagues. No matter how badly I butcher the tones and even if I use the wrong classifier, you should be able to figure out what I mean when I say "ao hotdog song un" when you are standing beside a hotdog cooker. Having said that, the type of people who work in a 7/11 anywhere in the world are not exactly society's best and brightest...

exactly , not very logical at all, it's the same as when they ask what drink would you like in a restaurant, it's funny how many times they give you blank stares when you say coke, I mean how many drinks sound like coke? umm none.

[xkkpafi]

Its pure and simple racism. Its a Thai with a ten word pidgeon-english vocabulary saying to a falang who has probably 3000+ words "all falangs are so stupid and dumb that its impossible to even conceive of learning, let alone having the temerity to use, our wonderful language" ... or rather " falang suer buer can spik thai tink no man kum can doo".

[Tchooptip]

Well, if you are already "wasting your time" by living in this country, it helps immensely to be able to speak the local tongue.

This really applies to anywhere in the world.

Having your local language to be a "world language" if of course a plus. But if you really never ever travel anywhere, then the most importing thing is to be able to communicate in the language of your locals, no matter if it's just a minority language, but spoken my a majority of people around you.

1+1=2 ?

[Baa_Mango]

Your Thai is subpar and mediocre because you have learned and practiced it with your companion for many years. This means she (or he?) can understand you even though you have poor pronunciation.

I have seen this many times with people who live quite sheltered lives inside Thailand. Once they step outside and meet strangers, the strangers are often baffled. In many cases this causes deep rooted resentment in the speaker, which often results in complaints about other people being stupid, or ignorant.

I have also noticed that often times these long term speakers do posses extensive vocabularies and can comprehend impressive amounts of the language. The problem is rooted in sloppy, lazy, incorrect pronunciation and tones.

Often times this can be fixed by serious studying of the reading and writing Thai language and internalizing and mastery of the tones rules and sounds.

[Baa_Mango]

Also - yes when English speakers hear people slaughtering English, it is often easy for us to understand of decipher what the point or meaning is.

With Thai, and I may I venture, other tonal or Asian (?) languages, no matter the context, can often leave people clue less. I thing it is pointless to pin this on one race or kind of people, because I am sure if I was in Iran at 7-11 jabbering and "Farsi" and waving my hands around, it would still be stretch for the staff to realize I just want a bottle of vodka, rum, or phone credit.

I think people may need to exercise cultural empathy for once and try to understand where others may be coming from.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Also - yes when English speakers hear people slaughtering English, it is often easy for us to understand of decipher what the point or meaning is.

With Thai, and I may I venture, other tonal or Asian (?) languages, no matter the context, can often leave people clue less. I thing it is pointless to pin this on one race or kind of people, because I am sure if I was in Iran at 7-11 jabbering and "Farsi" and waving my hands around, it would still be stretch for the staff to realize I just want a bottle of vodka, rum, or phone credit.

I think people may need to exercise cultural empathy for once and try to understand where others may be coming from.

Pointing at the bottle of vodka on the shelf behind the checkout could be helpful.

[Baa_Mango]

Also - yes when English speakers hear people slaughtering English, it is often easy for us to understand of decipher what the point or meaning is.

With Thai, and I may I venture, other tonal or Asian (?) languages, no matter the context, can often leave people clue less. I thing it is pointless to pin this on one race or kind of people, because I am sure if I was in Iran at 7-11 jabbering and "Farsi" and waving my hands around, it would still be stretch for the staff to realize I just want a bottle of vodka, rum, or phone credit.

I think people may need to exercise cultural empathy for once and try to understand where others may be coming from.

Pointing at the bottle of vodka on the shelf behind the checkout could be helpful.

In Iran? Are you nuts!