is it me who is (-) or is it you who is (+)

[nonthaburial]

IS IT ME (-) OR IS IT YOU (+)

A quick, and hope not boring take on my life. Born in the UK, during the baby boomer years. Lived in Africa from 5-14 years old, educated at a top expatriate international School, can remember enjoying the weather and the sport. At the age of 14 my parents decided that I was losing my UK roots and shipped me back (shipped literally) back to UK to stay with an Auntie and continue my education.

At the age of 16 attempted to join the RAF as a pilot, passed all the required examinations, but failed the colour blindness. End of my dream.

To cut a long story short, joined the Army, got a trade, and got bored, applied for and completed the RM Commando course, joined 29 Cdo in Plymouth, had very enjoyable life but my marriage suffered. I requested and was granted a 2 year posting to anywhere but Hong Kong. August 16^th 1977 landed at Kai Tak to start a 2 year attachment to the Gurkha Transport Regiment.

Enjoyed the change of lifestyle tremendously, was a member of the 1^st 100 club at the Old China Hand, took my first paid for Military vacation in 1978 at a smallish fishing village called Pattaya, flying in a Cathay Pacific Tri Star to Dom Muang. With a nice paid for sun tan, wife buggered off back to UK and we eventually divorced. After 2 years I decided I was through with the UK and Green Beret malarky

Left the military on a Friday afternoon in 1979 and joined the HK Government with the RHKP as a vehicle examiner the same Friday afternnon, before being promoted to run one of the HK Fire Services Workshops. In 1982 I was head hunted by a very well-known UK Fire truck manufacturer. And took up the position of Asia Pacific Service manager, based in Hong Kong.

In the early period I travelled extensively, mainly to Mainland China, which was a nightmare with security personnel tracking me 24 hours a day including sleeping in a chair outside my hotel room. Then in 1983, my first Thailand visit came about this to commission and train on 10 x 60m Snorkels (which are still there today).

Heaven is not strong enough a word to describe this and consequent trips, with the Royal River Hotel my second home from home for many a year. Get the daily work done, rush back to the hotel, shower, and shave, after shave on and onto the ferry into the naughty areas. Weekends in Pattaya all paid for, food and expenses paid for. Company didn’t blink when my hotel receipts were handed over with the word “Joiner” stamped on the room rate. Talk about a kid in a toy shop…. That was me!

Fast track to 1996, My UK Company was bought out and closed; I relocated to Manila as a consultant with San Miguel, but after 6 years I was getting paranoid with the crime, poverty, security issues and put feelers out. Within 18 hours I had a call from a large Bangkok based fire company who asked me to fly to BKK the very next day for an interview as they had me in mind for the position of Chief Engineer.

With a huge smile on my face I was accepted and commenced working, firstly living in Pyathai then buying a lovely Condo near Chaeng Wattana. I was back in heaven again and it didn’t take long to get back into the rhythm of 1983, Although Thailand had changed for the worse already.

I left Thailand in 2009 to take up another position in – would you believe China, and what a difference 20 odd years had made. China was a different place, clean, modern, good infrastructure, relatively cheap, friendly natives. I was left gob smacked.

After moving to China, I returned to BKK about 6 months later to pack up and ship out my things, and instead of being heavy hearted I was actually very relieved to get out of the rat trap, that in my opinion is Thailand of today.

As my Chinese Company still has an office in Bangkok I do visit every now and then, but really do not look forward to it. This weekend, I have to visit again, this time for 8 days, and I am far from happy. From the packed aircraft full of loud obnoxious Chinese tour groups, to the <deleted> hole that is supposed to be a world class airport, to usually long immigration queues, manned by sour faced arrogant officials. Then out into the melee to be obstructed and harassed by taxi touts, to fighting with a Taxi driver over a bent meter or scam, to the streets of Bangkok teeming with low life, hookers, stoned foreigners, black drug pushers, and let’s not forget pavements taken over by vendors, pot holes, drain holes, and the occasional MC driver who thinks the pavement is a short cut.

Ok let’s get away for a few days FORGET Pattaya, that’s no longer a nice little fishing village, it’s now a cess pit full of down and outs (in the main) alcoholics, chancers and Paedos. Let’s try Hua Hin, now that’s a little better, well that is if you survive the suicidal drive down.

Sorry people Thailand has plummeted down the slippery slope and it now appears to attract scum, deadbeats, alcoholics, child molesters, on the run criminals, oh and let’s not forget the number of farang murders, beatings and the like.

So is it only me who after so many years of being in Asia, the only negative one with regards to Thailand, or are their others like me who have seen the good times as they were and now noticed the change? Or is it those who are still wet behind the knees, who think they can see the positive side?

I would like to hear from the genuine old timers, not the newbies or pretenders on whether it’s just me.

Sorry for the length of this post and my background but I think it is relevant and puts things into a certain perspective. Flamers don’t bother, been around a long time and seen and heard it all many times before

[MegaRanter]

Ok, I feel you.

Now, no children, no grandchildren and just a lousy fireman advisory job,

If I were you I would feel worse.

Note: not all the drug arrests involves a black peddler. Add a few scats, Brits, kiwis, Aussies and very large quantity of Thais.

[David48]

[Dr Robert]

This sounds more like a "who am I" quiz question. Get a grip man; seek help from a good health provider for depressive illness.

not a flame!

[DLock]

I enjoyed reading your career history.

You will get 2 types of response.

The first will be the relative newbies who are still in the "honeymoon phase" and think you are nuts. They will learn in time.

The second will be old timers who remember the good old days and lament the changes in Thailand and it's people, but stay because they have no choice.

I'm somewhere in the middle. I can tolerate living here because I travel so much, but Thailand is not where I will be forever for many of the reasons to list.

Good luck Sir.

[MJP]

Not sure if this helps . . . .

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/#/page/indexes/global-peace-index

Thailand's pretty rough in my opinion. Only been here 13 years so not an old timer. I do know a few real old timers who think it's not a very nice place now compared to 25+ years ago. But frankly, where is?

Probably a bit of the grumpy old man creeping in there too, that's not a flame.

[Neeranam]

Personally, I don't think much has changed apart from me. I hope I qualify to post - 20 years but I am an alcoholic and find it rather ignorant and insulting to list alcoholics with pedophiles. Are whoremongers better than alcoholics too?

If anything, there are less undesirables here since the internet. Many 'normal' guys meet women on love sites and move here. Maybe a bit less exciting than those coming years ago.

Maybe you have depression, trying to remember the past.

The Chinese spiritual leader and philosopher, Lao Tzu, drew a wonderful correlation between depression and the past; anxiety and the future; and, peace and the present.

Here is what Lao Tzu had to say about them:

If you are depressed, you are living in the past.

If you are anxious, you are living in the future.

If you are at peace, you are living in the present.

This quote is a simple pointer towards what ails our lives and why. It also brings out the fact clearly that if we want to be at peace with ourselves, we must focus on the present i.e., NOW. If we keep thinking about the past, we are sure to remain depressed. And, if we keep worrying about the future, we would be courting anxiety.

We have no control over the past because it is already gone. The key to our future is in the present because we can make decisions today that may affect your future in many ways. So, the key to lasting peace and happiness lies in constantly focusing on the present moment and dealing with it as best as we can.

Sounds a bit like a low self-esteem thing also - calling all the people coming to Thailand these days, 'scum, dead beat etc"

Edited September 25, 2013 by Neeranam

[siampolee]

Been here some 22 years and in reality it is much the same as anywhere one lives, bad days good days decent people lousy people. yes Thailand has changed as has the rest of the world. Living as I we do in the wilds of Surin I am transported back to my childhood days in rural England in the 1950-60's. Relaxed easy lives , kids being kids doing kids things safe walking around unlike the U.K and other countries these days , no P.C. O.K. the bureaucratic process can be a bind at times but so it is in the U.K. too

However I still wake up in the morning ready for the coming day.

I work through choice as opposed to necessity so in some respects that does I suppose improve the quality of ones life.

All in all life is all about change.

In many respects my life wasn't so different from your Nonthaburial apart from the Africa bit, I attended a top notch grammar school in the U.K. I did my military thing by choice, I was a public servant and retired when hit 46 years of age in the U.K. and used my Bachelors degree and my Masters degree to join the teaching profession here in Thailand and it has been a great experience which as I said is still ongoing.

At my age I consider waking up in the morning a bonus

Let's face it, if the changes cease it would seem to me that I or we'v shuffled off of this mortal coil

[CharlieH]

Sounds to me to be a typical somewhat depressed look at ones past and lifes experiences. Things are never what they were on reflection, not just Thailand but anywhere and most memories will be distorted by present mood and circumstance.

All seems to be a typical ageing person refecting on what once was, doesnt like the present much and yearns for yesteryear. Hopefully you wont get bitter too! (and I dont mean a pint).

[MJP]

Been here some 22 years and in reality it is much the same as anywhere one lives, bad days good days decent people lousy people. yes Thailand has changed as has the rest of the world. Living as I we do in the wilds of Surin I am transported back to my childhood days in rural England in the 1950-60's. Relaxed easy lives , kids being kids doing kids things safe walking around unlike the U.K and other countries these days , no P.C. O.K. the bureaucratic process can be a bind at times but so it is in the U.K. too

However I still wake up in the morning ready for the coming day.

I work through choice as opposed to necessity so in some respects that does I suppose improve the quality of ones life.

All in all life is all about change.

In many respects my life wasn't so different from your Nonthaburial apart from the Africa bit, I attended a top notch grammar school in the U.K. I did my military thing by choice, I was a public servant and retired when hit 46 years of age in the U.K. and used my Bachelors degree and my Masters degree to join the teaching profession here in Thailand and it has been a great experience which as I said is still ongoing.

At my age I consider waking up in the morning a bonus

Let's face it, if the changes cease it would seem to me that I or we'v shuffled off of this mortal coil

The Issan pace of life is ideal for those who don't want to rush.

I love it.

[cpofc]

It is the same old story. Nostalgia aint what it used to be. When I was a young bloke and first started touring the Far East, the Old Hands, then, were saying the same things. 'Finished with this lot, things have changed too much, this will be my last trip. I'm getting out, paying off, shove it up your clacker.

Singapore was like a 2nd home to me once upon a time. I flew back just to visit my old stomping grounds a few years back. Somewhat a bit of a disappointment, the place was gutted, a dust bowl, run down. But that's life. I still enjoyed going there, lots of memories, good memories.

It is the natural human resistance to change. Honestly, I don't think it has bothered me a hell of a lot, I have coped alright. took it all in my stride. Yeah sure, the good old days were really good, and I love talking about them, and reminiscing, I consider myself fortunate more than anything else. I have had a great life so far. Sometimes in cases like this it is the loss of youth which is harder to cope with more than anything else. And lacking the ability to grow old gracefully and accept things the way they are.

I was here (Far and SE Asia) every year since I was a teenager, and I have watched and been part of the changing first hand.

Just be thankful, it seems you have had a decent run and an interesting life. it was never going to stay the way it was. You would have to be a fool to expect so.

I notice you were with the Gurkhas in HK in 78. We used to spend a fair bit of time in HK in those days, HMS Tamar doing Self Maintenance Periods. In 1978, we were sending our sailors out to join up with you blokes to do Illegal Immigrant Patrols on the border. The XO organised it because he reckoned it would stop the sailors getting bored during an extended period alongside.

The Bull and bear was a favourite in 78 - When Australian Sailors weren't barred and they would let us in.

Running around Wanchai as a 16 YO in 1970. Got to be happy with that! Even if Wanchai had never changed. I sure have. LOL.

Cheer up mate. Life is what you make it. Look back and be happy, not sad.

,

[Kilgore Trout]

I certainly don't believe a word of it. I'm not even sure this poster is a western man at all.

[MJP]

I certainly don't believe a word of it. I'm not even sure this poster is a western man at all.

What makes you think that?

[nonthaburial]

Ok, I feel you.

Now, no children, no grandchildren and just a lousy fireman advisory job,

If I were you I would feel worse.

Note: not all the drug arrests involves a black peddler. Add a few scats, Brits, kiwis, Aussies and very large quantity of Thais.

African Chief, please s l o w l y read my post again and absorb, I have never said I am Childless I did say I once divorced, but didn't see the need to report to the likes of you that I have been happily married for the last 8 years, and no she is not Thai or African. Nor did I mention anything about "arrested" black drug dealers.

Please point out in my post where I stated I was "just a lousy fireman advisor" again I didn't see fit to explain that I am the Chief Engineer of a Chinese/UK joint venture that manufacturers high tech rapid response vehicles for the world market.

Instead of quickly reading a thread with you thumb stuck up your (insert wherever you wish) please be so kind as to understand what was said and not answer stupidly or ignorantly. Thank you

[Beetlejuice]

There have been 2 similar themed threads published on Thai visa recently:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/670250-five-reasons-why-youll-never-last-here-in-thailand/?p=6858275

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/670227-westerners-on-the-decline-in-thailand-maybe-time-to-move-on/

Is this I’m really feeling cheesed off with Thailand week?

I suggest you look at the last 2 threads and perhaps you will find your answers on those.

I also live in Thailand and have sexual, financial and emotional problems. Was going to open a thread about it, but no one is interested.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[David48]

I suggest you look at the last 2 threads and perhaps you will find your answers on those.

I understand what you are saying ... but self-discovery is a wonderful thing.

.

[MegaRanter]

Sorry my bad then.

You just did sound too sad and forlorn.

Sleeping with many joiners and nothing to show for it could cause that, I suppose.

Ok, I feel you.

Now, no children, no grandchildren and just a lousy fireman advisory job,

If I were you I would feel worse.

Note: not all the drug arrests involves a black peddler. Add a few scats, Brits, kiwis, Aussies and very large quantity of Thais.

African Chief, please s l o w l y read my post again and absorb, I have never said I am Childless I did say I once divorced, but didn't see the need to report to the likes of you that I have been happily married for the last 8 years, and no she is not Thai or African. Nor did I mention anything about "arrested" black drug dealers.

Please point out in my post where I stated I was "just a lousy fireman advisor" again I didn't see fit to explain that I am the Chief Engineer of a Chinese/UK joint venture that manufacturers high tech rapid response vehicles for the world market.

Instead of quickly reading a thread with you thumb stuck up your (insert wherever you wish) please be so kind as to understand what was said and not answer stupidly or ignorantly. Thank you

[nonthaburial]

It is the same old story. Nostalgia aint what it used to be. When I was a young bloke and first started touring the Far East, the Old Hands, then, were saying the same things. 'Finished with this lot, things have changed too much, this will be my last trip. I'm getting out, paying off, shove it up your clacker.

Singapore was like a 2nd home to me once upon a time. I flew back just to visit my old stomping grounds a few years back. Somewhat a bit of a disappointment, the place was gutted, a dust bowl, run down. But that's life. I still enjoyed going there, lots of memories, good memories.

It is the natural human resistance to change. Honestly, I don't think it has bothered me a hell of a lot, I have coped alright. took it all in my stride. Yeah sure, the good old days were really good, and I love talking about them, and reminiscing, I consider myself fortunate more than anything else. I have had a great life so far. Sometimes in cases like this it is the loss of youth which is harder to cope with more than anything else. And lacking the ability to grow old gracefully and accept things the way they are.

I was here (Far and SE Asia) every year since I was a teenager, and I have watched and been part of the changing first hand.

Just be thankful, it seems you have had a decent run and an interesting life. it was never going to stay the way it was. You would have to be a fool to expect so.

I notice you were with the Gurkhas in HK in 78. We used to spend a fair bit of time in HK in those days, HMS Tamar doing Self Maintenance Periods. In 1978, we were sending our sailors out to join up with you blokes to do Illegal Immigrant Patrols on the border. The XO organised it because he reckoned it would stop the sailors getting bored during an extended period alongside.

The Bull and bear was a favourite in 78 - When Australian Sailors weren't barred and they would let us in.

Running around Wanchai as a 16 YO in 1970. Got to be happy with that! Even if Wanchai had never changed. I sure have. LOL.

Cheer up mate. Life is what you make it. Look back and be happy, not sad.

cpoc,thanks for your intelligent and polite response, yes I remember the Bull and Bear very well, how about the China Fleet Club?? Yes I can recollect a number of Aussie matelots on Border patrol with us, a real comedy act, bit different to quietly moving around on board a ship, these guys were noisy, but the thing that stands out was the fact that the Kukri boys (great troops) didn't understand a word your guys spoke !!

I don't understand how most seem to think I am a delusional old fart, I am not, my attempted post was to simply point out that Thailand's better days are over, and what once used to be an exciting posting is now a nightmare, don't be surprised if Myanmar now starts to attract attention.

,

[MJP]

It is the same old story. Nostalgia aint what it used to be. When I was a young bloke and first started touring the Far East, the Old Hands, then, were saying the same things. 'Finished with this lot, things have changed too much, this will be my last trip. I'm getting out, paying off, shove it up your clacker.

Singapore was like a 2nd home to me once upon a time. I flew back just to visit my old stomping grounds a few years back. Somewhat a bit of a disappointment, the place was gutted, a dust bowl, run down. But that's life. I still enjoyed going there, lots of memories, good memories.

It is the natural human resistance to change. Honestly, I don't think it has bothered me a hell of a lot, I have coped alright. took it all in my stride. Yeah sure, the good old days were really good, and I love talking about them, and reminiscing, I consider myself fortunate more than anything else. I have had a great life so far. Sometimes in cases like this it is the loss of youth which is harder to cope with more than anything else. And lacking the ability to grow old gracefully and accept things the way they are.

I was here (Far and SE Asia) every year since I was a teenager, and I have watched and been part of the changing first hand.

Just be thankful, it seems you have had a decent run and an interesting life. it was never going to stay the way it was. You would have to be a fool to expect so.

I notice you were with the Gurkhas in HK in 78. We used to spend a fair bit of time in HK in those days, HMS Tamar doing Self Maintenance Periods. In 1978, we were sending our sailors out to join up with you blokes to do Illegal Immigrant Patrols on the border. The XO organised it because he reckoned it would stop the sailors getting bored during an extended period alongside.

The Bull and bear was a favourite in 78 - When Australian Sailors weren't barred and they would let us in.

Running around Wanchai as a 16 YO in 1970. Got to be happy with that! Even if Wanchai had never changed. I sure have. LOL.

Cheer up mate. Life is what you make it. Look back and be happy, not sad.

cpoc,thanks for your intelligent and polite response, yes I remember the Bull and Bear very well, how about the China Fleet Club?? Yes I can recollect a number of Aussie matelots on Border patrol with us, a real comedy act, bit different to quietly moving around on board a ship, these guys were noisy, but the thing that stands out was the fact that the Kukri boys (great troops) didn't understand a word your guys spoke !!

I don't understand how most seem to think I am a delusional old fart, I am not, my attempted post was to simply point out that Thailand's better days are over, and what once used to be an exciting posting is now a nightmare, don't be surprised if Myanmar now starts to attract attention.

,

I think it's getting to grips with what is now a McWorld. There's not much character or individuality anywhere, it's all the same the McWorld over.

[saakura]

I certainly don't believe a word of it. I'm not even sure this poster is a western man at all.

I do believe every word of it. Sounds like a depressed old guy yearning for bygone days when a white westerner was accorded the status of a hero or demi god and his earnings were far higher than a well paid thai and could have almost anything he fancied. Now he has to face the ignonimity of mixing with non western tourists, well paid thai's, and lesser buying power.

[itchybum]

Old guys always live in the past...I remember when....get with it, times change.....don't come back if it is such an issue....easy

[kannot]

Id say you summed it up pretty well, many people seem to think some of us are here for the "love of Thailand" we arent, some us happen to have married Thais who have good well paid jobs and even more surprisingly "keep" their husbands in the financial and other respect..

Having said all that I still prefer Thailand in many ways to where i am currently visiting parents...............the UK

So long as i dont have to have much interaction with the Thais I get along just fine, thats the way I like it and thats all that matters.

Having been back just a week Im itching to get out, put the tv on all i say is chavvy slappers, the woman who won Big Brother( tripe indeed) wets the bed and shows everyone her t**s a fine example of "modern England", yet I am probably the only one under 50 here who thinks like this anymore.....that does depress me slightly

Edited September 25, 2013 by kannot

[cpofc]

I certainly don't believe a word of it. I'm not even sure this poster is a western man at all.

I do believe every word of it. Sounds like a depressed old guy yearning for bygone days when a white westerner was accorded the status of a hero or demi god and his earnings were far higher than a well paid thai and could have almost anything he fancied. Now he has to face the ignonimity of mixing with non western tourists, well paid thai's, and lesser buying power.

Mate, you wouldn't know if the Grenadier Guards were up you until they fixed bayonets.

Hero or Demi God? Buying power? What a load of rubbish. You've been watching too many movies.

[falkan]

old bitter fart move on then if you dont like it..

[Crazy chef 1]

nice/interesting post.may some thoughts for the future but the good thing in life we always can move on so long it is physically or financially posible.

but ones man's heaven can be another mans hell.our choice.

[MJP]

Id say you summed it up pretty well, many people seem to think some of us are here for the "love of Thailand" we arent, some us happen to have married Thais who have good well paid jobs and even more surprisingly "keep" their husbands in the financial and other respect..

Having said all that I still prefer Thailand in many ways to where i am currently visiting parents...............the UK

So long as i dont have to have much interaction with the Thais I get along just fine, thats the way I like it and thats all that matters.

Having been back just a week Im itching to get out, put the tv on all i say is chavvy slappers, the woman who won Big Brother( tripe indeed) wets the bed and shows everyone her t**s a fine example of "modern England", yet I am probably the only one under 50 here who thinks like this anymore.....that does depress me slightly

The trick to having a good fulfilling life is to keep the television unplugged. In any country.

[Neeranam]

Id say you summed it up pretty well, many people seem to think some of us are here for the "love of Thailand" we arent, some us happen to have married Thais who have good well paid jobs and even more surprisingly "keep" their husbands in the financial and other respect..

Having said all that I still prefer Thailand in many ways to where i am currently visiting parents...............the UK

So long as i dont have to have much interaction with the Thais I get along just fine, thats the way I like it and thats all that matters.

Having been back just a week Im itching to get out, put the tv on all i say is chavvy slappers, the woman who won Big Brother( tripe indeed) wets the bed and shows everyone her t**s a fine example of "modern England", yet I am probably the only one under 50 here who thinks like this anymore.....that does depress me slightly:(

The trick to having a good fulfilling life is to keep the television unplugged. In any country.

Used to be the case but now the secret is to keep the computer unplugged. Also switch off the smartphones, ipads etc. In my house we have not got the tv connected yet as we just bought it(the house) and it is surprisingly good without it. Was playing snakes and ladders tonight, but we have a PC computer, ipad, ipod, laptop, phonelet, smartphone, and a tablet. Turn the wifi off I think.

[bunnydrops]

Yes-- its a McWorld. The westernization of everything and every place. And we wonder why some people in some counties just want us out . But of course, you and us are part of that problem. If you every get a chance, look at some old National Geographic from the early 30s and 40s if you want to see some really "good old days"

A real shock I had a couple of years ago was seeing I was traveling near where I lived when I was boy 50 years ago. So I took a detour off the main hiway to see the place again. The town was bigger and the covered bridges were gone. I went to the old swimming hole--- It was just like I remembered it. A log (different one I am sure) with a rope swing tied to it just like it was when I lived there. The whole area was just like a photograph from the past.

[Banzai99]

my attempted post was to simply point out that Thailand's better days are over

,

Sounds like your better days are over too.

[itchybum]

my attempted post was to simply point out that Thailand's better days are over

,

Sounds like your better days are over too.

Not to thos that visited for the first time last week.....their's are just beginning......but in 4o years....sigh