I've Hit The Wall & Need Help

[minikev]

Hang in there mate!! I was once full of diazis well over 4 years I kidded myself that the painkillers I also took could replace them and slowly but surely it worked. The painkillers were easy to bin.

My family didn't know me at the time as I was such a different person. I stayed totally alone and got them out of my life.

The new life is fantastic better than I ever dreamed.

The fact that you posted here tells me you are strong enough. Go at your own pace but with a huge desire to get them out of your life. Just less always is the key never go back to an old habit. When you are searching the drawers for the one tab you think you kept there shut the drawer and do anything else. Even if only for an hour or 2.

[ray35ty]

have you tried effexor xr ask your doctor. can cure your demons and social anxiety.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Vero]

Have you tried Christianity? God can heal you. Go to a church nearby and speak to the Pastor about it for help.

[Samuipie]

I don't know where you are, but Dr. Antika at Bangkok Hospital Samui is a lifesaver.

You are suffering from depression that is exacerbated by the valium.

You need a much clearer diagnosis and therapy. It isn't easy staying mentally healthy and it takes extra effort while in a foreign country.

Also Dr. Adul at BKK Hospital psych in Bangkok is a genius and a great guy.

You need support and proper diagnosis then the right medication for the job.

Don't give up. There is help in Thailand.

[nami]

Is the above post a joke or what? We are talking about a serious issue here to banalize it with religion...

OP, I really really feel you. I was officially diagnosed with depression and anxiety at 17 though I remember suffering the symptoms and even a suicide attempt as early as 10-11. There were times when I couldn't put myself together to get out of the house, some times I even felt extreme anxiety at home without any apparent cause. I know how you feel, I've been there and living life like this is not living at all, it sucks completely.

In my case I kept going to weekly psychiatrist sessions and adjusting medication. I think it was a bad move to self medicate yourself like you explain. I actually stop cold turkey in several occasions and the withdrawal is just crazy (and dangerous but I wasn't taking as many drugs as you do).

Some years ago I started to feel better after following simple routines like taking care of my hygiene and my looks (avoiding any possibility of thinking people may be looking you down), forcing (and I really mean it) to go out even if it is just to walk a few minutes on the street, forcing myself to meet friends (so I should go out, and also easier because you are not alone), etc Simple things but make it a habit.

At some point I felt good enough to come as a tourist to Thailand on my own, so I did. I was just in love with the culture, specially because it didn't make me feel anxious at all. You see, my main problem was the rudeness of western people staring at you with those angry faces or with the evaluation look in their eyes; I don't really care about that here because: most people don't do, some do it with a smile (don't care if fake or not), a minority is just the same as the westerners OR look you because you are a foreigner. After a few more trips I took the decision, reduced the drug usage with the help of the doctor (gradually lowering the dose), quit my job and come here. I found a job, stop completely with the drugs and didn't feel anxiety anymore (except for some very stressful periods at work, but I am able to handle it by myself). However you are already here and looks like it doesn't make a difference to you :-(

I can't recommend you a clinic or doctor over here, but I hope I gave you a bit of hope about the possibility of passing this period in your life, there's light at the end of the tunnel. In a few years all this will be just bad memories.

If you can't afford a clinic, I would recommend you to lower your doses gradually, very gradually over a long period of time. And the most important, force yourself to simple routines. You learned Thai so you were able to go to the class periodically, find activities if you need but don't keep at home; the longer you keep inside the harder it is to get out again and all the work is wasted and need to start over again (but you probably know that).

Almost forgot, stay away of alcohol, it can make you feel relaxed and avoid the anxiety but it is not worth (besides you can turn into an alcoholic pretty easily). I did the most stupid things when mixing it with benzos, and the feeling next morning when you start to realize what did you do (if you can actually remember or when some friend explains to you). It is not worth.

I also smoked around 15 very heavily loaded ganja/hashish joints every single day, didn't really help with the anxiety but I didn't want to stop it because it was my 'only' pleasure. When I moved here I stopped for some 3 months, then I bought a 100g brick (standard shitty quality). I smoked until finished (as a good addict) but didn't buy more. Why? Because just the thought of a neighbour smelling it and calling the police (I didn't have enough money to bribe at that time) made me feel so crazily anxious that didn't enjoy or feel relaxed at all when smoking.

Best of luck!

Edited September 30, 2013 by nami

[hellodolly]

If there is a Thai Psychiatrist who also works well as a therapist in Thailand, I would be surprised. They like to talk for 5 minutes and then send you to the pharmacist downstairs for meds.

In general the Psychology profession here is not well developed at all. So, I would try The Cabin in Chiang Mai, as was pointed out and is generally well known and has decent reputation. It is pretty expensive, I hear.

Or you might contact this woman (farang) and ask for a referral to a real Psychiatrist. If there are any, she may be helpful to point you in the right direction. Or maybe work tag team with a Psychiatrist where she does therapy and the other does meds.

089-782-1764.

Piyachat R. Finney, LMFT, LMHC

Tapering from those doses will take months. There is a famous program developed by some British doctor (female) who outlines exactly how to taper and from different types of benzos. And when you get down to smaller amounts you may need some sophisticated mechanics to split pills or titrate, or what ever its called when you dissolve in water. The good news is Valium is easier to taper from than... say... Klonpin.

Good luck and good health.

Thank you for your post. Is the British Docotor you refer to Dr Aston? I am aware of her and in fact have have a brief discussion with her. I am at the moment though around 30-40mg a day, I know it should be constant but I am all over the place, plus I have been drinking 2-3 times a week as well for a while now. At least I am not taking 400mg anymore which is totally absurd, I am surprised I have not died.

Your first paragraph is exactly what happened to me when I went to speak with a 'psychiatrist' quick discussion, didn't care or understand much and then some anti depressants that did nothing even after 6 weeks of use. What makes this whole situation worse is that mental illness or disorder is not that recognized here and thus it is not treated well. Nobody understands me, even my partner who I can speak to in Thai all day long doesn't fully understand, she does to an extent and she tries her best, but she doesn't fully understand or know solution. I just need a decent therapist who will give me the time of day to listen and have the professional skills to act accordingly. I want to be rid of substances, like I said it has been nearly 12 years of using and abusing them now and I am sick of it.

Today I hit the wall and could see no way out, those thoughts do not head anywhere good. As for klonopin (clonazepam) I have taken that as well, xanax, lorazepam, temazepam, bromazepam, and some opiates as well, sometimes in combination with each other. But right now I am only using valium and by my standards a low dose.

Where is Piyachat R. Finney based do you know?

And finally yes the Chiang Mai cabin is around 400,000฿ for a months treatment, i emailed them earlier. I really do not have that money, and for a month it seems kind of much, even though they have a good reputation.

Valium is not some thing you can just stop taking and go through with drawls and then be OK.

It has an extremely long half life and I have known people to go through withdrawal effects as long as a year after stopping.

I had a girl friend once who had a long and heavy habit. When she stopped they had to put here in a hospital for a week and give her some thing to help get her through it/ When she was released she went into a half way house for women coming off alcohol and drugs. I believe she then went through a week of constipation.

You will definatly need a doctor and be sure to tell them every thing you are taking. I don't know if they have any doctors here in Thailand with experience of walking you through it.

Perhaps a treatment center will help you but you have to have a clear head. Other wise all it is will be what we called back home "three hots and a cot." A good treatment center will not take you in until you have been off every thing for a minimum of three days. Some a week. Even then if you have been abusing your thinking is not clear.

The Cabins is not a hospital they are there to help you rehabilitate your self an imposable job if you are not free of drugs for a period of time. How ever there could be real medical reasons for one of them. That is where a Doctor can help.

To the best of my knowledge all they know in Thailand for treatment is other drugs which can lead to other problems.

The bottom line is is there a real mental physical reason for your problems or is it just straight out addiction.

Sorry if I sound heavy handed but lies will not help you.

[hellodolly]

Shit....do you have money? Can you get to an ibogaine clinic? It looks like they have one in koh Pangan and somewhere else...... http://ibogainethailand.com/ http://ibogainethailand.net/

Normally, I wouldn't bring this up, but if you are on the brink and therapy isn't working out, maybe you need to take a more drastic action that is not the worst alternative. Ibogaine has been shown to "reset" people.....it is an intense experience, but that seems exactly what you might need.

Also, there is a monastery here that is famous for taking in dependent people.....mostly or heroin, but they might be able to aid with this as well....it is worth giving it a shot..... http://www.thamkrabok.net/html/treatment.html These monks have seen alcoholics and drug addicts of many types over the years.

Please, no matter what you do.....get help and be well.....there is always a solution to this stuff and you can get through it, no matter how dark it seems.

Go and check those out and see if they can help.

There is no evidence that I am aware of that ibogaine works for benzo withdrawal (unlike opiates, which it has been shown to be effective for). It is also not approved for use in Thailand.

As benzos go, valium is the easiest one to get off of, in fact the protocol for getting people off other benzos involves first switching them over to valium.

A program of gradual tapering will avoid the physical symptoms of withdrawal , and there are a number of Thai psychiatrists specializing in addiction disorders who can advise on that. The harder part is dealing with the anxiety that led to the addiction in the first place. Here is where a good therapist can make a huge difference.

there are some non-addictive medications that are useful in management of anxiety. A therapist would be able to refer you to a good psychiatrist specializing in this.

Every case of addiction is different. The one thing they all have in common in there active phase is denial.

My oldest suffered from Anxiety or so the doctors told him. After many years he stopped the drugs and alcohol and guess what no anxiety.

His anxiety had been the result of his addiction. There are many Doctors in the west willing to believe that it is the anxiety that causes addiction.

This how ever is not a blanket statement there are cases where it is true the anxiety has a large part in causing the addiction and once the addiction has been dealt with they are still faced with the anxiety. This is a rare occasion but it is a fact.

[Minnehaha]

Shit....do you have money? Can you get to an ibogaine clinic? It looks like they have one in koh Pangan and somewhere else...... http://ibogainethailand.com/ http://ibogainethailand.net/

Normally, I wouldn't bring this up, but if you are on the brink and therapy isn't working out, maybe you need to take a more drastic action that is not the worst alternative. Ibogaine has been shown to "reset" people.....it is an intense experience, but that seems exactly what you might need.

Also, there is a monastery here that is famous for taking in dependent people.....mostly or heroin, but they might be able to aid with this as well....it is worth giving it a shot..... http://www.thamkrabok.net/html/treatment.html These monks have seen alcoholics and drug addicts of many types over the years.

Please, no matter what you do.....get help and be well.....there is always a solution to this stuff and you can get through it, no matter how dark it seems.

Go and check those out and see if they can help.

There is no evidence that I am aware of that ibogaine works for benzo withdrawal (unlike opiates, which it has been shown to be effective for). It is also not approved for use in Thailand.

As benzos go, valium is the easiest one to get off of, in fact the protocol for getting people off other benzos involves first switching them over to valium.

A program of gradual tapering will avoid the physical symptoms of withdrawal , and there are a number of Thai psychiatrists specializing in addiction disorders who can advise on that. The harder part is dealing with the anxiety that led to the addiction in the first place. Here is where a good therapist can make a huge difference.

there are some non-addictive medications that are useful in management of anxiety. A therapist would be able to refer you to a good psychiatrist specializing in this.

Every case of addiction is different. The one thing they all have in common in there active phase is denial.

My oldest suffered from Anxiety or so the doctors told him. After many years he stopped the drugs and alcohol and guess what no anxiety.

His anxiety had been the result of his addiction. There are many Doctors in the west willing to believe that it is the anxiety that causes addiction.

This how ever is not a blanket statement there are cases where it is true the anxiety has a large part in causing the addiction and once the addiction has been dealt with they are still faced with the anxiety. This is a rare occasion but it is a fact.

Actually, every case of addiction is very similar. By definition, addiction means the body needs a medication to such a strong extent that there is dependency and if removed, the person suffers withdrawal. In some cases, such as benzos and alcohol it can be life threatening.

The chicken or the egg discussion regarding whether an addict gets addicted because they already have extreme anxiety or some other psychological condition or special reaction to the substance that then drives them to addiction or the addiction or another way around is discussed at great length. But nothing is conclusive.

Having known many alcoholics and addicts, my experience is that they all have 1 thing in common. They have a pre-disposition for benefiting from the substance. That is, the substance does something for them that is extremely beneficial in their minds. This is how they get addicted or dependent. Dependency is differentiated from addiction in that when the substance is removed, the person does not experience more than psychological angst - no physical withdrawal.

The OP said he had psychological issues before he was prescribed medication. He now has 2 issues - dependency and probably addiction, so needs to address both at the same time.

I believe the Ashton System is the gold standard.

go to benzo dot org dot uk / manual

there are charts for about every kind of benzo in the book.

[TomTom55]

Wow so much to read through. I will try to be brief.

Hallucinogenics, I have taken pretty much every drug, or commonly known drug you can think of bar heroin and PCP, also some other ones a lot of you won't know of. LSD mushrooms and DMT are some I have taken quite a few times in the past as well. As much as I can see they have the ability to make you see things from a different perspective, they can also make things a whole lot worse.

Christianity, you are either trolling or you are high up on a preaching pedestal, either way no sale. I'm Buddhist anyway. It has helped me grow a lot over the past 6 years with regards to my personality, but addiction is something that has remained.

@nami it sounds like you treated yourself in a similar fashion to CBT? I know what you mean by really forcing yourself outside, it is so hard and so irrational at the same time. I am no monster yet I have this underlying anxiety issue that needs addressing, it has been there from as early as I would say 9-10 and I need to know why. The weird thing is when I first came here, for the first 9 months I did not take any benzos or anything really, my anxiety was kept at a manageable level and then one day it exploded and I sought out an easy and quick answer. I also have smoked weed for a long period of time, I quite smoking weed before I came here though, I smoked almost daily from the age of 14-19 and now I cannot smoke weed without it triggering anxiety attacks so I don't bother. That and the fact I don't like the notion of smoking in general.

I know of xr or extended release, I do not want any more drugs, period.

@hellodolly I am pretty sure anxiety is the cause of my addiction but I am not too sure of the causes or causes of my anxiety. I thin kI am have bene self medicating for years now, this is why I need a therapist.

I cannot muster up the strength right now to search and reply to everything but thank you all. I am waiting to hear back from the PSI doctor in Bangkok, I may just phone him.

[Sheryl]

I cannot muster up the strength right now to search and reply to everything but thank you all. I am waiting to hear back from the PSI doctor in Bangkok, I may just phone him.

Please do, it is by far the wisest and best course of action. Though it will take time and work on your part to resolve things, you'll feel better right away just knowing you have a trained therapist on your side and a path forward.

Glad to see that you have the wisdom to reject well-meaning but dangerous advise re self-medication with other drugs. Would certainly make matters worse.

[Robbie Dye]

So sorry to hear all this, have a look at www.alcoholrehab.com based in Chanthaburi and on Koh Chang, Dont be put off by name, they are Asia Health and have experience in addiction related problems too. Not sure how expensive but have done wonders for people I know.

[TomTom55]

So sorry to hear all this, have a look at www.alcoholrehab.com based in Chanthaburi and on Koh Chang, Dont be put off by name, they are Asia Health and have experience in addiction related problems too. Not sure how expensive but have done wonders for people I know.

I looked yesterday, peng maaaaak! You are looking at around 400,000 for 28 days in those kinds of places. I have decided that I am going to reply on three things, myself, a decent therapist that understands the situation and is willing to help, and the Dharma.

[TomTom55]

I just received this from Dan at PSI, without looking back to page 1 I forget who linked me to him but thank you.

Hi Tom,

My name is Dan Boyd, one of the addiction specialists at PSI.

I also specialize in the treatment of anxiety.

As you mention in your email, benzodiazepine addiction is very
difficult. I work exclusively in conjunction with Dr Thani at BNH
on Convent Road in Bangkok. He is excellent in supervising the
gradual withdrawal with the least discomfort to the patient and
without adding on a bunch of unnecessary meds. As you point
out, over-prescribing is a huge problem in Thailand so it is very
important to have a supervising physician who is trusted. Also,
I am assuming that a gradual, out-patient, weaning is what you
want, rather than a more rapid in-patient detox.

At the same time we would begin Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy
to treat the anxiety disorder. This would entail weekly counseling
sessions for a period of time. I am not sure how possible this is
for you, living in Hua Hin, but we may be able to arrange Skype
sessions after an initial period.

Regarding fees, my standard fee is 3500 baht per 50 minute session.
My office hours are Wednesday through Saturday, 9:00-7:00. You
can read more about me on my web site below.

Let me know how this is sounding to you and we will see if we can
move ahead.

Best regards,
Dan

So I think I may go with this, it sounds like the best option I have to be honest.

[pete66]

I think you have things spot on. Find a decent psychiatrist, and get to the root of the anxiety issues if possible. But even if you never discover the absolute root, there are many techniques people here have talked about to manage social anxiety (mindfulness, CBT, relaxation techniques, breathing, meditation, therapy that can just help you understand the anxiety better and deal with it "there and then" etc). A good doctor / therapist is the way to go.

Forget those ludicrous SSRI anti-depressants that the drug companies make billions from. One of the biggest cons in history. I've been on social anxiety forums where people list the medications they are on / have tried and some of them are like huge shopping lists. Which indicates they just don't work. Some people are taking 5 things at the same time. How could they possibly know if any of the medications were helping? Its a road to nowhere.

I waited until I was 40 before I started to deal with my social anxiety issues. Looking back, they started around the age of 12 as well. You have chosen to deal with this much earlier than I did. You have every chance of dealing with this and improving your outlook on life.

Let us know how you get on!!

[flyingdoc]

I feel greatly for you. I was married to a U/K based Psychiatrist for many years, but now specialize in Anti-aging Medicine (AAM), based largely on the Chicago A4M model. However, quality of life does come within our remit, and if money is not plentiful, I could get some recommendations from the Medical staff at Thammasat University in BKK, and they would be very sympathetic to your plight and financial circumstances. It may be that involving Beta Glucan in weaning off dependancy drugs, could play a valuable part in this.

Contact me if I can help?

[Sheryl]

....Forget those ludicrous SSRI anti-depressants that the drug companies make billions from. One of the biggest cons in history. I've been on social anxiety forums where people list the medications they are on / have tried and some of them are like huge shopping lists. Which indicates they just don't work.

Actually, SSRIs are quite effective for many people..with depression. Anxiety, social or otherwise, is a different condition,. For some reason people tend to confuse the two things or lump them together.