Rabies

[sms747]

Thanks for the replies!

I have come to the wobbly conclusion the risk is very low indeed and haven't bothered getting inoculated.

It's not like the shots are particularly cheap, they are a real expense.

The dog is still hanging around the gardens where I live.

I feel sorry for it and had thought of at least feeding it regularly, but it tends to bark at people in the night and so I'm shooing it away I have great trouble getting back to sleep. Sorry dog.....but you did bite the hand that fed you!

Keep your eye on the dog-if it dies in a couple of weeks get straight to the hospital, that's what Chula told me when in a similar situation

[cheeryble]

I think the whisky dip did it-effected your thinking, not cleanse the wound.

Are you depressed? have you thought through how much you think your life is worth to you and your loved ones? is this a call for help?

Hey don't beat up on me.

All I've done is come here asking for a little information.

I've then gone out and informed myself not only from general data available and kindly posted here, but by going to the horse's mouth (no haha intended) to find out the local incidence.

I came to a position to take no action but even then erred on the safe side by getting a first shot while I learn more.

It then seems that between the vet I visited for information and JRTMedic's WHO data my position was to my mind perfectly reasonable.

Despite all that I got a first shot, and despite the dog showing no symptoms tonight on my way back from Lamphun I had a brainwave and stopped by Sarapee Hospital for a second shot. The price at the local hospital would have obviated me even bothering to seek information here, see below.

What was even better is that my wife, who herself works at a hospital and is the world's best organiser, got my name down at the hospital and has the exact information required for me to be a 30baht patient and was told the whole system. Nice to think the taxes i've paid will give me some rights, though personally I'd rather not draw from the system unless I have to in older age......the kitty is no doubt limited.......so I will generally go private.

BTW when you suggest jumping at a treatment remember SOME treatments have risks themselves. Combine this with the chance of being given the wrong medication (my wife noted they didn't double check my name and show me the ampoule at this country hospital) and there becomes a balance to be struck in some instances.

Same for me. Went to a local clinic and paid 2500 for a course of 5 injections.

I paid 330 baht for the one shot this evening!

You know I don't mind paying for things I need to but must admit i begrudge paying fourfold, so I feel satisfied with that (even more strange is my annoyance at the expense of the US healthcare system. Although actually it does have a bearing on me. If I stayed there again as I used to regularly and had a serious event as could easily happen at my age I could literally be ruined).

ps: The shekels saved today paid for nephew and niece and grandma and I to go to water park near Lamphun much enjoyed by all except me!)

A dog can pass on rabies only when the virus reaches the brain...at the same time, it infects the saliva..hence it can transmit it via bites.

Once this happens the dog will die within a week or so and also exhibit very outward signs ...confusion,anger,loss of co-ordination.

If you don't want to get vaccinated and have daily access to the dog, keep an eye on him for a few days.

If no signs of rabies are present ,don't have the vaccines.

If yes, do it asap.

You have several days grace as the virus takes some time to incubate.

The rabies vaccine is a nasty mofo....

Good luck

Vinnie and SMS747 your sources seem to say similar things and so may be valid, however I'm not qualified to comment and frankly am not going digging to find out for sure (must admit internet sources on rabies say EXTRAORDINARILY different things!)

I will certainly keep an eye on the culprit even though I think my chance of infection is remote.

Thanks!

Edited October 13, 2013 by cheeryble

[jbrain]

Listen to what the previous poster said about the fatality rate and get the shots.....8k baht is cheap compared to your life. Good luck!

My son got bitten by a dog only 5 days ago and got the rabies shots at the Banglamung government hospital.

Charge fore the first 2 shots including doctors fee and a course Amoxycillin antibiotics was 400 Baht.

He needs to get another 3 follow ups of 2 injections, from which he received the first set yesterday, at 200 Baht per visit.

Edited October 13, 2013 by jbrain

[Issangeorge]

Vinnie and SMS747 are saying the samething a doctor in Toronto Canada told me. He told me if the dog was still alive a week later, then I didn't have rabies.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jbrain]

Vinnie and SMS747 are saying the samething a doctor in Toronto Canada told me. He told me if the dog was still alive a week later, then I didn't have rabies.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Free translated this means that the chance of getting bitten by a dog that has rabies is next to non existent, since a dog that has rabies only lives for 7 days ?

[sms747]

Dog can bite a lot of people in a few days surely?

[FBN]

A dog can pass on rabies only when the virus reaches the brain...at the same time, it infects the saliva..hence it can transmit it via bites.

Once this happens the dog will die within a week or so and also exhibit very outward signs ...confusion,anger,loss of co-ordination.

If you don't want to get vaccinated and have daily access to the dog, keep an eye on him for a few days.

If no signs of rabies are present ,don't have the vaccines.

If yes, do it asap.

You have several days grace as the virus takes some time to incubate.

The rabies vaccine is a nasty mofo....

Good luck

"Keeping an eye on the dog" is not useful. Rabies vaccine (the immune globuline), to be effective needs to be administered within 24h.

Calculating odds of getting rabies is not useful either; you are dealing with an extremely serious condition that carries a 100% fatality rate and involves dying in a most unpleasant manner.

The routine vaccine involves an injection on day 1, day 7 and day 22; three shots not like the post exposure course which is much more intensive and way more unpleasant. Modern rabies vaccine is safe and has a low profile of side effects.

Living in Thailand: Just get vaccinated....

[sms747]

you are dealing with an extremely serious condition that carries a 100% fatality rate and involves dying in a most unpleasant manner.

This girl survived without injections

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/121479779.html

[thaiexpat21]

you are dealing with an extremely serious condition that carries a 100% fatality rate and involves dying in a most unpleasant manner.

This girl survived without injections

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/121479779.html

This is a Tabloid report with absolutely no scientific or academic references.

Here is what the WHO have to say

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs099/en/

And here is the CDC report about this very unusual case

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5350a1.htm

For those equipped to understand the detail it will be recognised that this was a extremely atypical case.

Animal bites sustained in rabies endemic areas should always be treated seriously !

For all practical purposes rabies is 100% lethal to humans .

[arunsakda]

I read all the posts on this thread. A dog nice enough to pet. Why don't you collect him amd bring in for a check up with a Vet? You could end up adopting, gaining a new friend.?

[cheeryble]

A dog can pass on rabies only when the virus reaches the brain...at the same time, it infects the saliva..hence it can transmit it via bites.

Once this happens the dog will die within a week or so and also exhibit very outward signs ...confusion,anger,loss of co-ordination.

If you don't want to get vaccinated and have daily access to the dog, keep an eye on him for a few days.

If no signs of rabies are present ,don't have the vaccines.

If yes, do it asap.

You have several days grace as the virus takes some time to incubate.

The rabies vaccine is a nasty mofo....

Good luck

"Keeping an eye on the dog" is not useful. Rabies vaccine (the immune globuline), to be effective needs to be administered within 24h.

Not saying you're wrong, but you are contradicting three posters saying something different, so.......sources?

Calculating odds of getting rabies is not useful either; you are dealing with an extremely serious condition that carries a 100% fatality rate and involves dying in a most unpleasant manner.

I'm afraid I can't see how the seriousness and unpleasantness of rabies stops one rationally assessing it as a risk the same way one weighs up risks constantly.

[cheeryble]

I read all the posts on this thread. A dog nice enough to pet. Why don't you collect him amd bring in for a check up with a Vet? You could end up adopting, gaining a new friend.?

Well unfortunately when I "petted" him he snapped.

However it ws just a reaction he's a pleasant chap and I though of feeding him regularly like my own dog. It's dog heaven here as they are all free to roam around the communal garden of several rai, and they have many friends both human and canine. The good thing here is I can go away and someone will feed him, and I'm sure my dog's getting fed elsewhere also, so I only give him a small amount a day and he's fine.

The culprit is still around but now I know the rabies igures I won't be concerned about testing him.

The main problem is the night he stayed on my step he woke me up, and I need my sleep.

However he doesn't look more than a bit skinny so I suspect helps getting food somewhere, and socially he's been at least partially accepted by the local dogs and mine.

The poor fella can't put one of his paws down though. I've been watching for improvement without any action as I don't fancy another bite messing with the paw.

Not at all sure how I could get him to the vet either.

Edited October 14, 2013 by cheeryble

[Gaccha]

Thanks for all your concern.......

but i think the odds are very slim and am willing to take my chances.

Funnily enough the same dog has been hanging around in the background at our garden......a sort of forested community of rentals.....and today he was the same slightly nervous but amiable slowly tail wagging chap who approached when I was going to feed my dog (and I still feel sorry for him may arrange for him to get food somewhere far enough away I can't be woken up).

I think the little snap he gave me was just reaction pretty typical of a nervous dog to overconfident petting.

I also noted today that from a distance of a few yards there are no obvious wounds on him where he may have himself contracted rabies.

I read that the virus is pretty fragile and susceptible to alcohol, so add to the above the washing in water then soaking in whisky I gave the two tiny and surface wounds (which bled just a few drops), and I think I can not justify the expense of shots to myself.

Again, thanks!

(holds throat, froths, and grimaces )

Thailand has the third highest level of rabies in the world. 0.5% of all dogs.

The shots are completely free if you have the health insurance from working here.

Get the post-exposure dosages.

[thaiexpat21]

Thanks for all your concern.......

but i think the odds are very slim and am willing to take my chances.

Funnily enough the same dog has been hanging around in the background at our garden......a sort of forested community of rentals.....and today he was the same slightly nervous but amiable slowly tail wagging chap who approached when I was going to feed my dog (and I still feel sorry for him may arrange for him to get food somewhere far enough away I can't be woken up).

I think the little snap he gave me was just reaction pretty typical of a nervous dog to overconfident petting.

I also noted today that from a distance of a few yards there are no obvious wounds on him where he may have himself contracted rabies.

I read that the virus is pretty fragile and susceptible to alcohol, so add to the above the washing in water then soaking in whisky I gave the two tiny and surface wounds (which bled just a few drops), and I think I can not justify the expense of shots to myself.

Again, thanks!

(holds throat, froths, and grimaces alt=w00t.gif> )

Thailand has the third highest level of rabies in the world. 0.5% of all dogs.

The shots are completely free if you have the health insurance from working here.

Get the post-exposure dosages.

Where exactly does that assertion derive from ?

Please supply evidence and links to the information.

[Gaccha]

Thanks for all your concern.......

but i think the odds are very slim and am willing to take my chances.

Funnily enough the same dog has been hanging around in the background at our garden......a sort of forested community of rentals.....and today he was the same slightly nervous but amiable slowly tail wagging chap who approached when I was going to feed my dog (and I still feel sorry for him may arrange for him to get food somewhere far enough away I can't be woken up).

I think the little snap he gave me was just reaction pretty typical of a nervous dog to overconfident petting.

I also noted today that from a distance of a few yards there are no obvious wounds on him where he may have himself contracted rabies.

I read that the virus is pretty fragile and susceptible to alcohol, so add to the above the washing in water then soaking in whisky I gave the two tiny and surface wounds (which bled just a few drops), and I think I can not justify the expense of shots to myself.

Again, thanks!

(holds throat, froths, and grimaces alt=w00t.gif> )

Thailand has the third highest level of rabies in the world. 0.5% of all dogs.

The shots are completely free if you have the health insurance from working here.

Get the post-exposure dosages.

Where exactly does that assertion derive from ?

Please supply evidence and links to the information.

Google is your friend. I am not your performing monkey.

Hints: 3rd highest level takes about 10 seconds to find at Wikipedia.

0.5% figure can be found at Mahidol's website under the research for the tropical diseases.

And the cost of the healthcare derives from my own experience.

And now, go and find them.

[thaiexpat21]

I note

Thanks for all your concern.......

but i think the odds are very slim and am willing to take my chances.

Funnily enough the same dog has been hanging around in the background at our garden......a sort of forested community of rentals.....and today he was the same slightly nervous but amiable slowly tail wagging chap who approached when I was going to feed my dog (and I still feel sorry for him may arrange for him to get food somewhere far enough away I can't be woken up).

I think the little snap he gave me was just reaction pretty typical of a nervous dog to overconfident petting.

I also noted today that from a distance of a few yards there are no obvious wounds on him where he may have himself contracted rabies.

I read that the virus is pretty fragile and susceptible to alcohol, so add to the above the washing in water then soaking in whisky I gave the two tiny and surface wounds (which bled just a few drops), and I think I can not justify the expense of shots to myself.

Again, thanks!

(holds throat, froths, and grimaces alt=w00t.gif> )

Thailand has the third highest level of rabies in the world. 0.5% of all dogs.

The shots are completely free if you have the health insurance from working here.

Get the post-exposure dosages.

Where exactly does that assertion derive from ?

Please supply evidence and links to the information.

Google is your friend. I am not your performing monkey.

Hints: 3rd highest level takes about 10 seconds to find at Wikipedia.

0.5% figure can be found at Mahidol's website under the research for the tropical diseases.

And the cost of the healthcare derives from my own experience.

And now, go and find them.

i note your abusive and impolite reply !

Reported to the Mods

Edited October 19, 2013 by thaiexpat21

[thaiexpat21]

"Thailand has seen a decline in the incidence of rabies over the past three decades. In 1980 there were more than 370 rabies deaths, but from 2004 to 2009 the rate ranged from 8-26 rabies deaths a year."

http://www.mahidol.ac.th/mueng/news/news_2011_rabie.htm

[Richard W]

The routine vaccine involves an injection on day 1, day 7 and day 22; three shots not like the post exposure course which is much more intensive and way more unpleasant. Modern rabies vaccine is safe and has a low profile of side effects.

I had a post-exposure course 15 years ago while on holiday in Thailand. The only downsides were the inconvenience of arranging the injections and the jabs themselves. The only one which hurt was the final jab, delivered after I returned to England. Thai nurses seems more skilled than English nurses in giving jabs.

The days of post-exposure vaccination being unpleasant are long gone.

[lopburi3]

I do know that local testing of animal heads often were positive 30 years ago when independent tests said otherwise. It is the safe answer and gets victim to have the treatment (which can be life saving) - but it also greatly increased the supposed incident rate.

But the question is why take any chance when there is a treatment that can almost guarantee safety - a few thousand baht is really not that much of an insurance cost if it may save a life.

[cheeryble]

I do know that local testing of animal heads often were positive 30 years ago when independent tests said otherwise. It is the safe answer and gets victim to have the treatment (which can be life saving) - but it also greatly increased the supposed incident rate.

But the question is why take any chance when there is a treatment that can almost guarantee safety - a few thousand baht is really not that much of an insurance cost if it may save a life.

It's a fair point of view Looburi,

.....but you know there's an interesting and very meaningful psychological phenomenon where people fear risks they don't understand.....like telephone transmitter radiation, nuclear incidents, etcetera....... to a very great degree more than things which are more everyday......like risks of riding a bike, giving birth, for instance......which have a statistically enormously higher incidence rate of mal effects.

From the answers here it seems to me that rabies creeps into this category (and oddly we still haven't nailed the subject with some saying one thing and some another.)

Just yesterday I was in a committee meeting about a condo building well water problem......it comes out very dirty after rain and contains like tiny lightweight flecks.....they look kind of organic, so one would guess have a potential for bacteria. I suggested we immediately switch and make a city water connection while the problem is properly dealt with. One of our committee had a fit at the mention of city water like we would all be dropping dead in hours......and much preferred to get the present well system upgraded which means continuing with the dirty water for at least days or weeks, and later the new filtering getting old and tired like the present filtering.

We had someone else in the condo who said the transmitter on our roof.....for whcih TTT gives us 100,000 per year....will "fry people's brains".

Well I happen to be trained as a physicist and it took me 15minutes to find out that although the aerial is 6ft tall it only transmits the same as 4 cellphones......and 99% of the signal in a very horizontally narrow beam which carefully avoids any interference with habitation. In other words it was a fear of the unknown.

So risk for me is simply something to be ascertained by gathering good evidence and considering it well....also a skill.

(Naturally thanks to you and others for your concern!)

Edited October 20, 2013 by cheeryble

[FBN]

The risk of rabies is clear and well documented and so is the prevention strategies; it does not fall in the category of telephone transmitter radiation and urban myths.

The CDC recommends rabies vaccination for stays of longer than 30 days in rabies endemic countries. As far as this forum is concerned, that is best practice and discussions on alternative treatments with alcohol and other or a "risk based" approach serves no purpose.

[cheeryble]

The story has a happy ending (I hope).

The culprit in question has been welcomed as a member of our little community of humans and dogs.

He has put on weight and his limp is gone and his trust issues are improving with a couple of us.......today I fed him meat by hand. He is a warm dog and happy at being part of a group.

I guess that's what we all want.

He is large for a stray, larger than he looks here. He is quite a handsome chap.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Edited October 26, 2013 by cheeryble

[connda]

Go to a local government clinic and not a private hospital if you're cost conscious (why pay more if you don't have to).

My clinic in Lamphun charged me 368 Baht / shot for a total of 1840 baht for a 5 shot series. i got the shots in their ER room, so I was charged for the vacine, the plunger, the needle, and about 20 baht for a smiling nurse for the 368 baht total I did not receive the HIG Immunoglobulin because I elected to get a rabies shot series prior to coming to Thailand (I'm a sucker for animals, and if I can befriend them, I will touch them, and getting nipped is part of the territory when playing with unknown cats and dogs). Been here over 5 year and this is the first nip from an animal that wasn't my own.

The only reason I got the 5 shot series is because I don't know where bitchy kitten disappeared to. My fault -- I approach the cat. Also, because I've been innoculated, I could have opted for 3 shots, but its been 5 years since the shots and I don't know what my current anti-body count is, so why not be over precautious and just get the full series. Now I just wonder how long I'm immune for. And I hope bitchy kitty lives a long and enjoyable life. No hard feeling cat!

With that said, if you are an animal lover, get the three prophylaxis shots here in Thailand. They will charge you 50x more for the same shots in the US (talking about reasons I don't live there anymore). Three shots here plus the doctor consultation will set you back about 1150 baht. You can then play with the soi dogs and soi kitties with piece of mind.

Of course if you're from the US, you probably have germaphobia and tell your kids not to touch stray animals. My mom said the same thing -- didn't do any good. But I did wash my hangs really good after getting nipped! Thanks for that advise Mom!!!

Feed them -- it's fun! I've befriended two soi cats who even go 'belly up' with me now. I've also befriended a couple of malnourished dogs in the village. It makes me feel good, and I make new friends who actually give a darn about me.
"Gapman -- Look! Here comes the 'FoooooD God'!"

"No kidding Spotchai. And, and, and!!!!! HE HAS CANNED FOOD! AR-Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!

So get the shot. Play with with the critters. They'll love you for it.

Edited November 8, 2013 by connda

[Sheryl]

The story has a happy ending (I hope). The culprit in question has been welcomed as a member of our little community of humans and dogs. He has put on weight and his limp is gone and his trust issues are improving with a couple of us.......today I fed him meat by hand. He is a warm dog and happy at being part of a group. I guess that's what we all want. He is large for a stray, larger than he looks here. He is quite a handsome chap. ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1382775196.525522.jpg Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Now that is a REALLY happy ending!! Thanks for sharing it.

[tim armstrong]

Difficult one. On the one hand your life sure is worth more than B8,000, but on the other as you say, the dog was asymptomatic. If he is still around I'd watch his behaviour for any increase in aggression. I was bitten by a monkey in Bali some years ago, while walking on a forest track just before their feeding time. My friend - a VET, said probably nothing to worry about as you will either be dead or not in a week. I worried, but was OK.

On balance I'd probably go for the treatment, as while cheating death is the fashion in extreme sports, its still fairly permanent.

[uhuh]

OP asked price for rabies shots.

In Bangkok, Red Cross (at Rama 4 near Chulalongkorn Hospital) charges 600B per shot.

[maechanman]

Price depends where you go for your shots,I got bitten a few weeks ago and needed a course of 4 injections over a 30 day period.

Three injections I had at the new Pattaya City Hospital on Soi Buakhoa,I was up country in Buriram for the other injection.

The three injections in Pattaya cost around 460 Baht each including nurses fee and the single injection which I had at a government hospital in Buriram cost a total of 20 Baht.

[PMNL]

Post exposure cost approximately 650-750THB*5 plus a few hundreds doctor fee, from what you described I don't think you need HRIC/ERIC at all

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