20 dead in Thai bus accident: police

[lucjoker]

Please, please, please not again !

How are you supposed to travel in this country?? Bus?To dangerous! Minivan?Deadtraps with speeding drivers! Train? Derailments a daily occurrance! Fly? And slide of the runway! Drive private car? With the road full of drunk/drugged drivers!

Only way to survive, seems to be, stay home!

Hope those who died in this tragedy didn't suffer.

100% right BUT most accidents happen close to your home !

So thats why we rent a house on a different place every month.

Now i feel much safer!

[salapau]

Driving too fast, brakes crap,don't know how to use gears to slow vehicle down,

so no seat belts on that bus. RIP

regards Worgeordie

Requiring log books that record distance traveled as well as breaks would go a long way also. Of course then there's the enforcement part...

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Log books need to be manually written up and won't be. Installing tachographs will record detail electronically and the information downloaded automatically, then checked regularly by the authorities. Installing speed limiters on buses and trucks of all sizes, is the only way to ensure that safe speeds are not exceeded. Installation of both tachographs and speed limiters are mandatory by government legislation in many other countries.

It also is ridiculous that the drivers eat from food boxes on their laps or on the instrument panels or use their mobile phones to speak and send texts. These are banned in many other countries.

How backward is the Thai culture and government and police.

[fareastguy]

Should be getting used to these accidents by now.

Just another day in paradise!!

[johnlandy]

Tragedies like this happen all over the world. They seem to happen here a little more often than other places. So sad.

Correction!! Tragedies like this occur all over the world, but in civilized countries a death toll of this magnitude would happen once in a generation "not ever '<deleted>' week"

And with an attitude of acceptance as you display there is no reason that they won't continue to occur with monotonous regularity.

If it's you or yours I will be interested in the statements that you make then

[MaxYakov]

Driving too fast, brakes crap,don't know how to use gears to slow vehicle down,

so no seat belts on that bus. RIP

regards Worgeordie

Just in the interests of safety - changing down on a diesel truck or bus does very little to slow the vehicle - that's only applicable to petrol engines with their higher cylinder-compression numbers.

If that's indeed the case, could you explain this about diesel (aka compression-ignition) engines, then?: (Diesel Engine - Wiki)

"The diesel engine has the highest thermal efficiency of any standard internal or external combustion engine due to its very high compression ratio."

This explains it: (Engine Braking - Wiki)

Unlike petrol engines, diesel engines vary fuel flow to control power rather than throttling air intake and maintaining a constant fuel ratio as petrol engines do. As they do not maintain a throttle vacuum, they are not subjected to the same engine braking effects.

But, according to the above, a diesel engine can get a similar effect (to a petrol engine) by use of a compression-release/jake brake or an exhaust brake. But, I guess, I digress.

R.I.P to the victims and full and speedy recoveries to the injured.

Edited October 24, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Travelman868]

Driving too fast, brakes crap,don't know how to use gears to slow vehicle down,

so no seat belts on that bus. RIP

regards Worgeordie

Requiring log books that record distance traveled as well as breaks would go a long way also. Of course then there's the enforcement part...

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You could also limit buses to say 70 kmh ? I believe European rules require a rest every 4 hours ?

This is the one annoying thing about Thailand as I have lost a number of friends due to the dangerous roads

Driving from Jomptien to Udon a nightmare, that's not the others on the road, it was POT HOLES 30 cm deap and road cracks to take down any Motor cycle, highway 331-304 and highway 2 from Korat to Udon most vehicles driving in the right hand lane. My car hit a pot hole and with it being full of water had no idea how deap. Most of the 8 hours were watching for holes and trying to swerve around them- disgusting state. Had to have a wheel change as my Mag wheel was bent and tyre wall slashed.

No wonder there are so many accidents/incidents.

I've driven this route a number of times and never come across holes 12 inches deep. There are a few parts where the inside lane

is patched but overall not bad.

As for imposing a 70 kph limit that's just silly.

[gp2002]

Very sad.

Maybe the driver was eating his dinner at the time.

[truckerjoe]

Driving too fast, brakes crap,don't know how to use gears to slow vehicle down,

so no seat belts on that bus. RIP

regards Worgeordie

Requiring log books that record distance traveled as well as breaks would go a long way also. Of course then there's the enforcement part...

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You could also limit buses to say 70 kmh ? I believe European rules require a rest every 4 hours ?

This is the one annoying thing about Thailand as I have lost a number of friends due to the dangerous roads

E.U. passenger vehicle rules are a driver must take a break of not less than 45 minutes after driving for 4.5 hours, that break is solely for recuperation and the driver must not undertake any form of work during that break, total hours driving allowed per day is 9 hours, which can be extended to 10 hours twice a week, with two 45 minute breaks, a driver must take a daily rest period of at least 11 hours or more during any 11 hour period. maximum driving total per week 56 hours!

These rule are in place to stop tired driver crashing into ravines etc!!

[Travelman868]

Driving too fast, brakes crap,don't know how to use gears to slow vehicle down,

so no seat belts on that bus. RIP

regards Worgeordie

Just in the interests of safety - changing down on a diesel truck or bus does very little to slow the vehicle - that's only applicable to petrol engines with their higher cylinder-compression numbers.

If that's indeed the case, could you explain this about diesel (aka compression-ignition) engines, then?: (Diesel Engine - Wiki)

"The diesel engine has the highest thermal efficiency of any standard internal or external combustion engine due to its very high compression ratio."

This explains it: (Engine Braking - Wiki)

Unlike petrol engines, diesel engines vary fuel flow to control power rather than throttling air intake and maintaining a constant fuel ratio as petrol engines do. As they do not maintain a throttle vacuum, they are not subjected to the same engine braking effects.

But, according to the above, a diesel engine can get a similar effect (to a petrol engine) by use of a compression-release/jake brake or an exhaust brake. But, I guess, I digress.

R.I.P to the victims and full and speedy recoveries to the injured.

Diesel engines provide similar engine breaking as petrol engines.

[MaxYakov]

The police spokesman made the ridiculous statement that the road is ' curvy ' but I suppose, at least, he didn't blame the rain this time.

That would be a road that has curves. What is ridiculous about that? Perhaps more ridiculous is describing that description as ridiculous.

The accident happens on the road Phayao-Lampang, that I drove many times with my wife at the wheel....It is a nice and wide road, but really curvy. It is a 90 degrees curve. Really, 90 degrees!.... that I do not know how people can see it driving at night. Not signs at all. My wife drives fast even if I do not agree with that, but we have a brand new small car. Now I regret not getting a big truck. With a very old car....drive there at night or with rain is suicidal...

Your wife drives fast and you do not agree with it ???? tell her to slow down then-or don't have her drive, get a grip mate, these Thai wives seem to control foreigners why put up with it, If I was scared I wouldn't be in the car, if you as a passenger thinks it's fast, do something about it. just saying-no it's not my business I know.

Absolutely! I've invoked what I call "passenger rights" a few times in my past life. One was with a co-worker, going through a divorce, who drove with a death wish - refused to ride with him again. In Thailand, I abandoned a visa-run van north of KK and hitchhiked rather than watch the driver play road-roulette.

Passengers should have a right to be transported safely, and they should invoke those rights when necessary. Maybe it could be rationalized as: "poor people have poor (and dangerous) ways". Or is it something else?

Edited October 24, 2013 by MaxYakov

[BestBitterPhuket]

Please, please, please not again !

How are you supposed to travel in this country?? Bus?To dangerous! Minivan?Deadtraps with speeding drivers! Train? Derailments a daily occurrance! Fly? And slide of the runway! Drive private car? With the road full of drunk/drugged drivers!

Only way to survive, seems to be, stay home!

Hope those who died in this tragedy didn't suffer.

Stay in Bkk and take BTS and MRT. It's the best

[NoshowJones]

You could also limit buses to say 70 kmh ? I believe European rules require a rest every 4 hours ?

This is the one annoying thing about Thailand as I have lost a number of friends due to the dangerous roads

Thailand's roads aren't dangerous, its drivers are.

Wrong, a lot of Thai roads are dangerous, especially for motorbikes, all those potholes must be part of the reason, only part mind you, why the death and injury rate of motorcyclists, is so high in Thailand.

[MaxYakov]

I've driven this route a number of times and never come across holes 12 inches deep. There are a few parts where the inside lane

is patched but overall not bad.

As for imposing a 70 kph limit that's just silly.

I think a 70 kph (approx 43 mph) limit (or even slower) would be reasonable on hazardous sections/roads - in a country that actually posted speed limits and then enforced them. Otherwise, you're right. It would be just silly and a waste of money putting up the speed limit signs - not to mention their being roadside hazards and audaciously attempting to limit Thai freedom.

Edited October 24, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Loles]

Ohhh my God, my Buddha, I have to find always here these sad bus disaster news. Seems never ending. Sorry for families of victims.

[Thailand]

A dreadful accident compounded by the fact that nearly all the deceased are from around the same village in Saraphi.

A community decimated.

RIP

[MaxYakov]

Hey mods we seem to have a mega prob in posting, no smileys and faint print, not as good as of late--can you amend ???

Faint print.

The mangled reply nesting is apparent, I'll give you that.

Edited October 24, 2013 by MaxYakov

[NoshowJones]

What is the main cause of all those potholes on Thai roads? My opinion is it's overloaded trucks and trailers, so what is the purpose of the Weigh Stations? There are plenty of them, do the truck drivers keep the Weigh Station employees in tea money? does the BiB get their share also? You never see them checking trucks.

[NoshowJones]

You could also limit buses to say 70 kmh ? I believe European rules require a rest every 4 hours ?

This is the one annoying thing about Thailand as I have lost a number of friends due to the dangerous roads

Thailand's roads aren't dangerous, its drivers are.

A lot of Thailands roads are dangerous. what about all those potholes? How is a motor cyclist going to see them on those dark unlit roads?

[MESmith]

What is the main cause of all those potholes on Thai roads? My opinion is it's overloaded trucks and trailers, so what is the purpose of the Weigh Stations? There are plenty of them, do the truck drivers keep the Weigh Station employees in tea money? does the BiB get their share also? You never see them checking trucks.

Poor road construction, or more probably poor road reconstruction.

Road near our house was resurfaced a few months ago. The potholes that were there before are already "resurfacing".

Plus overloaded trucks.

[badmedicine]

You can't blame the road for being "curvy". No road is dangerous if people drive appropriately for the conditions. The trouble is, they often don't. Same is true here as elsewhere. The one difference I think is that in Thailand, there's no incentive for people to drive responsibly. In the UK, for example, people fear being banned for getting 12 points on their licence. When even doing 80 on a 70mph motorway can get you 3 points, people are generally incentivised to drive with some semblance of sanity.

In the last week I've been unlucky enough to be in the passenger seat of two vehicles with Thai drivers behaving like maniacs. Both were guilty of repeated tail-gating, under-taking, and speeding -- and both of the drivers thought I was being unreasonable by pointing out the dangers of their behaviour. Even though I have scant use for a car on a day to day basis, I tempted to buy one now simply because I don't want to have to suffer being the victim of someone else's stupidity on the few occasions when I do need to travel.

[poohy]

A friend of mine who had lived for 18 years (sadly now passed) on said this to me when I arrived in Thailand 14 years ago, at the time I thought it was pretty racist.."remember "they" are just off the farm and can only drive bikes and buffalos" It seems however he is partially true as modern cars, roads, motor bikes, buses etc are now here, but the farm driving mentality for so many reasons is still here and prevalent.

[gintis0604]

Driving too fast, brakes crap,don't know how to use gears to slow vehicle down,

so no seat belts on that bus. RIP

regards Worgeordie

Requiring log books that record distance traveled as well as breaks would go a long way also. Of course then there's the enforcement part...

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You could also limit buses to say 70 kmh ? I believe European rules require a rest every 4 hours ?

This is the one annoying thing about Thailand as I have lost a number of friends due to the dangerous roads

I Europe all heavy vehicle have to have an electronic tachograph. There is even an electronic "speed limiter" set to 80 km/h. In Pattaya the buses drive 100 km/h in city. When they come to a crossing they just turn on the hazard and speed on. 99 % of all Thai drivers are complete idiots on the streets, but the bus drivers are the worst. Not one of 1000 would be able to make a driving licence in west Europe.

[MaxYakov]

You can't blame the road for being "curvy". No road is dangerous if people drive appropriately for the conditions. The trouble is, they often don't. Same is true here as elsewhere. The one difference I think is that in Thailand, there's no incentive for people to drive responsibly. In the UK, for example, people fear being banned for getting 12 points on their licence. When even doing 80 on a 70mph motorway can get you 3 points, people are generally incentivised to drive with some semblance of sanity.

In the last week I've been unlucky enough to be in the passenger seat of two vehicles with Thai drivers behaving like maniacs. Both were guilty of repeated tail-gating, under-taking, and speeding -- and both of the drivers thought I was being unreasonable by pointing out the dangers of their behaviour. Even though I have scant use for a car on a day to day basis, I tempted to buy one now simply because I don't want to have to suffer being the victim of someone else's stupidity on the few occasions when I do need to travel.

"I [sic] tempted to buy one now simply because I don't want to have to suffer being the victim of someone else's stupidity on the few occasions when I do need to travel."

Can you tell us how you plan to clear all others from the roads in order to avoid being a victim of some else's stupidity? Do you also plan a nationwide road repair effort, as well, before venturing out in your newly-acquired car?

[AloisAmrein]

Again and again? Road, train and air safety in Thailand is far below average. On the road every year nearly 7000 deaths.

If this continues, I will avoid this country and travel elsewhere.

[HeijoshinCool]

You could also limit buses to say 70 kmh ? I believe European rules require a rest every 4 hours ?

This is the one annoying thing about Thailand as I have lost a number of friends due to the dangerous roads

Thailand's roads aren't dangerous, its drivers are.

A lot of Thailands roads are dangerous. what about all those potholes? How is a motor cyclist going to see them on those dark unlit roads?

Headlights?

Oh, yeah. Never mind.

[NoshowJones]

You could also limit buses to say 70 kmh ? I believe European rules require a rest every 4 hours ?

This is the one annoying thing about Thailand as I have lost a number of friends due to the dangerous roads

Thailand's roads aren't dangerous, its drivers are.

A lot of Thailands roads are dangerous. what about all those potholes? How is a motor cyclist going to see them on those dark unlit roads?

Headlights?

Oh, yeah. Never mind.

Have you ever tried riding a motorbike on a dark unlit road, even with headlights?

[transam]

Please, please, please not again !

How are you supposed to travel in this country?? Bus?To dangerous! Minivan?Deadtraps with speeding drivers! Train? Derailments a daily occurrance! Fly? And slide of the runway! Drive private car? With the road full of drunk/drugged drivers!

Only way to survive, seems to be, stay home!

Hope those who died in this tragedy didn't suffer.

Looks like lack of instruction in every transport department.

[HeijoshinCool]

Have you ever tried riding a motorbike on a dark unlit road, even with headlights?

Many times over the past 42 years.

Always slowly.

But never on a cell.

And never holding dinner, building materials, bags of rubber, or infants.

I'm still here.

[anto]

That road Lampang to Chiang mai has a good road and surface ,but many bends and very steep inclines just off the road .If you nod asleep for a second while driving ,chances are its going to be fatal .

[NoshowJones]

Have you ever tried riding a motorbike on a dark unlit road, even with headlights?

Many times over the past 42 years.

Always slowly.

But never on a cell.

And never holding dinner, building materials, bags of rubber, or infants.

I'm still here.

Did those dark unlit roads have potholes?