Parents, tourists prey on children

[Zodaka]

Reminds me of these 200 homeless Caucasian foreigners that are here but which seem invisible. There no doubt are a few homeless children and I've seen a few from time but usually 1-2 on a main road and not recently. But to say that there are 25,000 of them, I doubt it very much.

[asdecas]

I have seen these cases with clearly underage ethnic girls (14 - 15 ish) sitting with very old white tourist looking men (60 thereabouts) at restaurants. From the expression on the girls face when I peered over and from the lack of conversation I would say it was a prostitute and not a father daughter couple. The weird thing about it was that it was uncomfortable, but I don't know whether the man knew what was up as far as how weird it looked to other people in the restaurant.

There were glances around and an uncomfortable vibe. But what can you do? I did not have the balls to get up and lecture them, especially solo. And a Thai is unlikely to make a public display. Perhaps the waitress could have asked them what was up and to leave.

Not much else you can do. Calling the police could result in a false accusation if they both deny it, and also doing anything in a public forum like a restaurant could potentially be a defamation issue which you could be liable for.

I also saw two tourists getting off a motorbike with an underage girl and walking towards a hotel. Again, stares from me and the noodle stand ladies, but again nobody surrounded them or said anything. It broke my heart.

This was in Chiang Mai, not Pattaya, but I'm sure Pattaya is probably much worse.

You play observer, accuser, witness, jury and judge on the basis of what exactly? You then make up your own mind that, on the basis of your own gross assumptions alone, the parties are guilty of - what exactly? - you have the gall to admit that you lack the moral courage of your own convictions to do anything about it.

Boy, you're a piece of work, you are.

[Jingthing]

I know that in Pattaya there are many f-rang parents of Thai children that are very unfairly assumed to be pedos just taking their children around town. Of course sometimes perhaps it may be obvious something dodgy is going on, but be careful about hysterically accusing innocent people.

There is also the variant age issue. I think most reasonable people would agree that there is a moral difference between an above legal age adult doing sex with a 17 year old vs. a 10 year old. The laws of Thailand and many other countries recognizes these age variations in the legal code as well.

F-rangs in Pattaya visibly going with persons who have a young appearance and could indeed be aged between 16 and 25 (who knows? who knows if their ID is fake?) is indeed not very uncommon. What is not common is visible seriously underaged prostitution in mainstream tourism areas such as shopping malls (as implied in the OP). Of course it must happen in less visible places, but you'd have to dig for it, and I support law enforcement people digging for it (but hope they don't ensnare innocent suspects as does happen in hysterical crackdown campaigns).

Note I am not saying that this NEVER happens in malls, that obviously isn't true as occasionally there is an arrest in a mall toilet area, but just that it is not very visible or pervasive there (as implied in the OP).

Edited October 27, 2013 by Jingthing

[UncleJ]

The people who write red meat press releases such as this are counting on such knee jerk emotional reactions.

There was a broadcast some time ago and the reporter stood in front of PatPong in Bangkok and claimed she was "in the heart of the billion dollar child sex industry."

How many perverts booked their flight to Bangkok after that broadcast?

[i claudius]

Seems many people on this formal are in some kind of "denial". Of course you do not see the problem if you are not looking. I suppose it would be possible to never encounter this situation and still live here 10 years, it you hole up in some soi in Bangkok, and just do your normal routine. I suggest a better look around, try some of the "back alleyways.... look for some old houses with seedy men out front coaxing you in. Watch young girls from Laos wander out in small groups from time to time to get a load for their cellphone at a nearby 7/11. It is right under your nose..if you care to look. It is nothing I care to see, but having spent 30 years in Asia...(and only a few months of that in the States) you will see/

Seems that you know more about this than us who actually live here ,then we dont hang around "back allyeays" looking for seedy men standing outside. how would you know about this.?

[i claudius]

There was a t-shirt printed that says:

bad people, go to Pattaya.

Good people go to heaven

I think you made a misquote ,saw it when you were visiting did you?

[Mudcrab]

Well, let me ask then: What services are available for street children in Thailand? Get them off the street and they won't fall prey to any adult exploiters/abusers.

School! Sports! Art! Music! Temples!

And all are targeted deliberately by paedophiles the world over

[philotruth3]

"Never eases to amaze me how the 'Pattaya Brigade' rush to the defense of anything heinous or derogatory stated about their precious domain"

Actually gay people have a lot of experience with this topic. They can tell you who are the closeted group, its the haters. The ones who go out of their way to attack people for it. This has been shown true over and over.

Of course people that live their get mad when they see these articles. We don't like being associated with something that has nothing to do with us and is way overblown. Every one I know says people back home get suspicious of them, just like you are asking what we have "to hide" This is a forum for xpats living in thailand. most know exactly what the story is. its overblown and we need to find out why people are doing that. And secondly, why don't they see part of the problem as economic. Are these people upset when teenagers go to work to sew the clothes they wear for $2 a day? Or get exposed to chemicals making their electronics? Conservatives don't care about people, these is just a convenient way to attack people. Conservatives like to dominate, and they are the child molesters as well, child molesting is an act of violence. COnservatives like to dominate, you can see it in all their policies, who is more conservative than the catholic church? I want to sue this news organizations. they are irresponsibly driving people insane, for money, hatred and political purposes. They are evil,

[Mudcrab]

People reading that absurd press release would imagine that if you visit Pattaya Central Mall that you'll be swarmed with young children sex workers clawing at your pants and pushing you into dark corners. I go there a lot and have NEVER seen even a hint of evidence of this kind of activity. As said before, yes this trade exists but the picture painted is overblown enormously.

Jingthing.....it will never be in your face. The worldwide web of paedophiles are much smarter than that. It is an underground existence reviled by most people, homosexual or straight. I don't know to what extent it happens in Pattaya , but if I was a betting man, I would say it is happening as we speak.

[chrisinth]

"Never eases to amaze me how the 'Pattaya Brigade' rush to the defense of anything heinous or derogatory stated about their precious domain"

Actually gay people have a lot of experience with this topic. They can tell you who are the closeted group, its the haters. The ones who go out of their way to attack people for it. This has been shown true over and over.

Of course people that live their get mad when they see these articles. We don't like being associated with something that has nothing to do with us and is way overblown. Every one I know says people back home get suspicious of them, just like you are asking what we have "to hide" This is a forum for xpats living in thailand. most know exactly what the story is. its overblown and we need to find out why people are doing that. And secondly, why don't they see part of the problem as economic. Are these people upset when teenagers go to work to sew the clothes they wear for $2 a day? Or get exposed to chemicals making their electronics? Conservatives don't care about people, these is just a convenient way to attack people. Conservatives like to dominate, and they are the child molesters as well, child molesting is an act of violence. COnservatives like to dominate, you can see it in all their policies, who is more conservative than the catholic church? I want to sue this news organizations. they are irresponsibly driving people insane, for money, hatred and political purposes. They are evil,

My knee-jerk reaction to a post like this is for you to stop taking the meds as soon as possible. A conservative view would be to reduce the dosage over a period of time as stopping immediately could cause permanent damage.

What on earth are you on about? Please explain:

"COnservatives like to dominate, you can see it in all their policies, who is more conservative than the catholic church? I want to sue this news organizations. they are irresponsibly driving people insane, for money, hatred and political purposes. They are evil,"

[philotruth3]

there were 20,000 cases taken to court against the catholic church since the 1960s and that figure was more than 10 years ago, now its probably 30,000. Are all the angry people mad at them too? are you doing anything about it? Most catholics I know are in denial. But they like to accuse others of sexual immorality at every opportunity. I mean think of the difference. There is no organization in Thailand which protects pedos and swaps them around when they get caught. Yeah, some thai police are maybe corrupt, just as they are in america and everywhere else. But that's totally different, for a number of reasons. The Thai police aren't paid shit so ten dollars is a lot of money, but why is the entire catholic church, a wealthy organization doing it on a regular basis? They live in a society with opportunity, they are not desperate to feed their family.

[Jingthing]

People reading that absurd press release would imagine that if you visit Pattaya Central Mall that you'll be swarmed with young children sex workers clawing at your pants and pushing you into dark corners. I go there a lot and have NEVER seen even a hint of evidence of this kind of activity. As said before, yes this trade exists but the picture painted is overblown enormously.

Jingthing.....it will never be in your face. The worldwide web of paedophiles are much smarter than that. It is an underground existence reviled by most people, homosexual or straight. I don't know to what extent it happens in Pattaya , but if I was a betting man, I would say it is happening as we speak.

No doubt and it is happening in Kansas City too. My objection to the OP was the over the top cheap sensationalism of exploiting already existent Pattaya bashing sentiments.

[Mudcrab]

People reading that absurd press release would imagine that if you visit Pattaya Central Mall that you'll be swarmed with young children sex workers clawing at your pants and pushing you into dark corners. I go there a lot and have NEVER seen even a hint of evidence of this kind of activity. As said before, yes this trade exists but the picture painted is overblown enormously.

Jingthing.....it will never be in your face. The worldwide web of paedophiles are much smarter than that. It is an underground existence reviled by most people, homosexual or straight. I don't know to what extent it happens in Pattaya , but if I was a betting man, I would say it is happening as we speak.

No doubt and it is happening in Kansas City too. My objection to the OP was the over the top cheap sensationalism of exploiting already existent Pattaya bashing sentiments.

Point taken

[Maggusoil]

As pointed out by many, it happens all over Asia, even so-called developed democracies and western countries and as always, most of the people that do the most damage are the locals. Not the tourists.

People who have the lingo, the safe places, the bribes in place, with the 'right' police. You can do 'anything', 'anywhere', if you have the bucks to pay for it.

The ordinary farang sex tourist is running a big risk, doing any of this more or less out in the open, on the cheap.

The poorer the country, the more there is of it, and there are much relatively poorer countries nearby.

The worst thing is knowing that there are many parents, selling and renting their children into it.

That's a hard yard to swallow. . . .

and yes its hard when you're walking down the street, with your own half foreign children and people are staring as if . . . . .

[TheyCallmeScooter]

everybody with eyes and a brain *knows* it's widely available in pattaya (and SE-asia in general). the "new" thing involves poor folks having their kids do all kinds of sicko stuff on demand in front of a webcam in return for money (paid by western union, paypal, bitcoins and the likes). u don't wanna know what is going on in myanmar for example.

Children are bred for utility and disposal. All over the world, evil breeds needy, disposable humans.

The West loves wagging the finger at Asia's exploitation of children for sex because everyone knows children should only be exploited for Freedom.

"In vain doth valour bleed..."

[Cantankerous]

"Too many ignorant foreigners who live in Thailand and don't really know what transpires. Let's face it Pattaya is the Soddom & Gomorrah of Thailand-anything sleazy could happen there."

Yeah anything so just pull numbers out of butt and call people ignorant for not believing it. If there are 2000 kids roaming the streets in pattaya, I am a 5 headed cyclops who also is the president of the u.s.

Open your eyes b-bag, try pulling your head out of your @ss. Pattaya doesn't only exist on beach, 2nd roads... Look & thou shall see.

BTW, you sound about as credible as the incumbent b-bag currently residing in the WH...

[kennypowers]

Incredible!

Just like the Pattaya thread I was involved in the other day, not one Pattaya head addresses the facts. Not one person comments on any of the numerous links posted that prove that yes, Pattaya attracts more pedophiles than any other part of Thailand.

What pieces of the puzzle are you failing to put together here? This is why you have adopted the name "pattaya farangs" or "farang Pattaya" as Thais say.

I will spell it out for you. The pedophiles come to Pattaya because there's an abundance of street children to be taken advantage of.

There are currently 400+ children in the Pattaya orphanage, many of which have been taken off the streets. A percentage of these children will be factored into reports by the HNN.

Yes, the figure may be more like 1700, 1400 perhaps, but just the fact that the Pattaya orphanage website tells you where a lot of these children are coming from and the vulnerability they face on the streets of Pattaya should allow your brain to compute that Pattaya is attracting an unhealthy amount of pedophiles.

The police have the evidence. The police have numerous people under surveillance. We also have this problem in Bangkok, but the statistics and reports we get at work show that Pattaya is the main destination for pedophiles in Thailand.

I just can't see what you have to gain by completely denying cold hard evidence. You make yourselves look like you don't care about the children. It's as if you don't want to admit there's a problem. It's very disturbing.

[Cuban]

If someone seeks these things it is there to be found, like any illegal activity there are paths to access it.

Personally I've seen a few instances on the streets of Pattaya where it was clear what was being "hawked" much like the offers of drugs etc you just smile "NO" and walk away.

The police seem to have the resources both Thai and Farang to set up stings for selling beer on no-sales days and the like so if there was the political motivation then I am sure that these child-sex groups could be busted. The fact that they (presumably) still operate suggests that there is no motivation to do so, and there presents the crux of the problem.

Draw your own conclusions.

[denby45]

"Too many ignorant foreigners who live in Thailand and don't really know what transpires. Let's face it Pattaya is the Soddom & Gomorrah of Thailand-anything sleazy could happen there."

Yeah anything so just pull numbers out of butt and call people ignorant for not believing it. If there are 2000 kids roaming the streets in pattaya, I am a 5 headed cyclops who also is the president of the u.s.

My God Obama and I thought you were only 2 faced.

Den

[kennypowers]

Who was it earlier saying how ridiculous it was that they suggest children are being picked up in shopping malls?

Well this came from the horses' mouth:

Tracey was arrested at his house in Bang Sarary where he’d allegedly been taking underage boys he picked up in Pattaya shopping malls, paying them 300-500 baht for sexual services.

http://www.pattayamail.com/localnews/german-briton-arrested-on-pedophile-charges-21820

Stop the denial.

[FiftyTwo]

Incredible!

Just like the Pattaya thread I was involved in the other day, not one Pattaya head addresses the facts. Not one person comments on any of the numerous links posted that prove that yes, Pattaya attracts more pedophiles than any other part of Thailand.

What pieces of the puzzle are you failing to put together here? This is why you have adopted the name "pattaya farangs" or "farang Pattaya" as Thais say.

I will spell it out for you. The pedophiles come to Pattaya because there's an abundance of street children to be taken advantage of.

There are currently 400+ children in the Pattaya orphanage, many of which have been taken off the streets. A percentage of these children will be factored into reports by the HNN.

Yes, the figure may be more like 1700, 1400 perhaps, but just the fact that the Pattaya orphanage website tells you where a lot of these children are coming from and the vulnerability they face on the streets of Pattaya should allow your brain to compute that Pattaya is attracting an unhealthy amount of pedophiles.

The police have the evidence. The police have numerous people under surveillance. We also have this problem in Bangkok, but the statistics and reports we get at work show that Pattaya is the main destination for pedophiles in Thailand.

I just can't see what you have to gain by completely denying cold hard evidence. You make yourselves look like you don't care about the children. It's as if you don't want to admit there's a problem. It's very disturbing.

400 in the orphanage, taken off the streets over a 2 year period.

So assuming they were on the street one month before being found .... 16 children on the street at any one time.

Lets say 1/4 of them became involved in seedy sex ...... 4 children working P4P in the streets in Pattaya at any one time.

OK, so 4 child sex workers is 4 too many, but not in the same ballpark as the figures the OP suggested.

I wonder how many child sex workers there are in London or NY?

Edited October 27, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[i claudius]

"The police have the evidence. The police have numerous people under surveillance. We also have this problem in Bangkok, but the statistics and reports we get at work show that Pattaya is the main destination for pedophiles in Thailand."

Kennypowers,with 32 posts under his belt ,reading about the "reports he gets at work" leads me to guess that you are one of the legion of moralists who come here to "work" with the underprivalaged , and get told a load of <deleted> by the street girls ,who off course have all been" sold" into slavery in the bars. sorry ,go back to selling the watchtower

[bangon04]

If I only go on my own experience of Thailand... the only seriously under age girls I ever saw working in the sex trade was in a Thai only karaoke bar, catering exclusively to Thai men. Even though I was with a Thai friend we were prevented for staying/going inside to look further.

Hearsay - the only seriously underage sex workers I myself have heard about were part of a scam by "police" to entrap foreigners into going with them then to be extorted.

I have also witnessed an arranged marriage between a Thai girl of 13 and a Thai man of 29 years. for an agreed fee.

When I say "seriously underage" I suppose I am referring to apparent ages of 10-12. I don't know if I have witnessed 15-16 year olds working in the sex trade in Bangkok. I assume that I have..

What does seem very obvious is that the underage sex trade is largely for the Thai men, and the small proportion of foreigners who get involved are a very small proportion of the whole problem.

Still as others have pointed out....easier to blame the foreigner. Lets blame the USA for sending their Vietnam troops to Pattaya for R&R. The poor Thais were forced to sell their daughters then for the very first time in history......and there is obviously no going back.

Edited October 27, 2013 by bangon04

[Stokakrishna]

Pattaya is not the only problem. almost in every every thai high school there are girls ( mathayom 1 to mathayom 6) which sell their bodies to ... Thais...

seen it myself. been teaching here for past 6 years.

In pattaya everything seems gross as they are doing it publicly, in small towns it is not as open, but everybody knows it exists.

[somtampet]

If I only go on my own experience of Thailand... the only seriously under age girls I ever saw working in the sex trade was in a Thai only karaoke bar, catering exclusively to Thai men. Even though I was with a Thai friend we were prevented for staying/going inside to look further.

Hearsay - the only seriously underage sex workers I myself have heard about were part of a scam by "police" to entrap foreigners into going with them then to be extorted.

I have also witnessed an arranged marriage between a Thai girl of 13 and a Thai man of 29 years. for an agreed fee.

When I say "seriously underage" I suppose I am referring to apparent ages of 10-12. I don't know if I have witnessed 15-16 year olds working in the sex trade in Bangkok. I assume that I have..

What does seem very obvious is that the underage sex trade is largely for the Thai men, and the small proportion of foreigners who get involved are a very small proportion of the whole problem.

Still as others have pointed out....easier to blame the foreigner. Lets blame the USA for sending their Vietnam troops to Pattaya for R&R. The poor Thais were forced to sell their daughters then for the very first time in history......and there is obviously no going back.

Them yanks have a lot to answer for

[TheyCallmeScooter]

THey prefer...dogs over kittens.

They sure do!

Dogs are loyal when you abuse them. People just whine and complain. If only humans could be more like dogs...

That's why it's fundamentally important to raise children Right with lies to convince and violence to persuade.

Otherwise, children would be humane. Selfish. Sane. Loyal to themselves. No good for war.

[kennypowers]

"The police have the evidence. The police have numerous people under surveillance. We also have this problem in Bangkok, but the statistics and reports we get at work show that Pattaya is the main destination for pedophiles in Thailand."

Kennypowers,with 32 posts under his belt ,reading about the "reports he gets at work" leads me to guess that you are one of the legion of moralists who come here to "work" with the underprivalaged , and get told a load of <deleted> by the street girls ,who off course have all been" sold" into slavery in the bars. sorry ,go back to selling the watchtower

No I am not. I am not religious either. Let me guess who you are; a man who moved to Thailand to sleep with third world prostitutes. Well done.

Oh look, another shopping mall pick up

Mr. Norman Wallis in the act of seducing a young 13 year old boy. Police confronted Wallis aged 79 from England and arrested him. Both he and the boy were taken back to the police station for questioning. According to Wallis, he paid 700 baht to the boy as requested when they met at a local shopping mall.

http://www.pattayapeople.com/Crime-News/British-Paedophile-Arrested-with-Teenage-Boy

Still in denial?

[Jingthing]

Nobody ever said it never happens at a mall here.

Just that it's not especially visible.
Which it is NOT, I can assure you.

Pedos pick up their prey at malls in Kansas City too.

I don't get the overblown Pattaya angle.

Pedos are everywhere.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Jingthing

[Yahooka]

If I only go on my own experience of Thailand... the only seriously under age girls I ever saw working in the sex trade was in a Thai only karaoke bar, catering exclusively to Thai men. Even though I was with a Thai friend we were prevented for staying/going inside to look further.

Hearsay - the only seriously underage sex workers I myself have heard about were part of a scam by "police" to entrap foreigners into going with them then to be extorted.

I have also witnessed an arranged marriage between a Thai girl of 13 and a Thai man of 29 years. for an agreed fee.

When I say "seriously underage" I suppose I am referring to apparent ages of 10-12. I don't know if I have witnessed 15-16 year olds working in the sex trade in Bangkok. I assume that I have..

What does seem very obvious is that the underage sex trade is largely for the Thai men, and the small proportion of foreigners who get involved are a very small proportion of the whole problem.

Still as others have pointed out....easier to blame the foreigner. Lets blame the USA for sending their Vietnam troops to Pattaya for R&R. The poor Thais were forced to sell their daughters then for the very first time in history......and there is obviously no going back.

The "poor" thais already had been "forced" to sell their daughters loooooong before US troops came here for R&R .

[kennypowers]

Nobody ever said it never happens at a mall here.

Just that it's not especially visible.

Which it is NOT, I can assure you.

Pedos pick up their prey at malls in Kansas City too.

I don't get the overblown Pattaya angle.

Pedos are everywhere.

No one says it doesn't happen elsewhere. It's just rife in Pattaya. There is a problem. It has been well documented. Authorities are seeking to solve it. Foreign expat residents are seeking to deny it and sweep it under the carpet. That is a problem.