international wire transfer new rules for US Citizens

[lopburi3]

My wire transfer from the USA was just DENIED to to new regulations.

I have regularly been requesting wire transfers by fax for the last 9 years from my USA bank to my account at SCB. Never had a problem before this.

Now the bank is telling me that the new regulations prohibit wire transfer requests by fax or phone. All wire transfers from personal accounts must originate in a USA branch so that the consumer can sign forms that they have been informed of the fees involved. ($25)!

So, I have to spend thousands of dollars to flyback, rent a car, hotels etc. so that I can sign a form that says I agree to pay $25!!

I need to find out about ACH transfers and didn't know that they could be sent to Thai bank.

Regulation overreach by a total police state!

Wire transfer agreements have been an in person signing of such paperwork going back at least several decades. Once paperwork is on file than various forms of wire transfers are normally allowed but do vary by bank.

Find out your bank policy on ACH transfers (may require extra fee but likely can be done without a personal visit) and open a Bangkok Bank account and use ACH transfers? Cost is less and no special paperwork involved as it is a transfer to a domestic US branch bank. They take care of the international transfer paperwork.

[keeniau96]

I was using SWIFT transfer from Chase in USA, cost $50 then they changed process (already complicated) a few months ago so I finally wised up and used the ACH transfer to Bangkok Bank thence onward to my account in LOS. A month ago my transfer took two days and a net net forex rate (baht received/$ sent) came out to 30.89, which I felt was very fine. Simple, fast, cheap.

Note for new users of such: the two test transfers will be sent by your bank in US$ but will arrive in your account in TH as baht. But when you are entering the verification values in your USA bank you have to make a guess at the exchange rate used. Took me several tries but then got the acceptable value. Note these will be trivial sums, say, $0.08 and $0.11.

[Nowhereman60]

My bank send a receipt to me and a statement of cost through their website message center. I have not had to sign any papers to start wire transfers but I do have to answer about 4 security questions each time I do a transfer. I am still waiting to see if the transfer through ACH works, I guess it could take a few days.

[Langsuan Man]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling said Chicken Little.......

There are no new rules on International wires, just banks making you pay more and blaming someone else for their greed

If you tell your US bank that you do not have signature authority on the receiving account (their banking term, not mine) which basically means that you can only recieve funds into the account and cannot transfer back out (to the sending bank) most banks will waive the test deposit requirement, thus saving you the guessing game over the exchange rate for these small test deposits

I know that USAA Savings Bank even has a check box that you use to indicate that this is the case and thus I never had to worry about test deposits. Call your US bank and they most likely have the same rule

[Pib]

My wire transfer from the USA was just DENIED to to new regulations.

I have regularly been requesting wire transfers by fax for the last 9 years from my USA bank to my account at SCB. Never had a problem before this.

Now the bank is telling me that the new regulations prohibit wire transfer requests by fax or phone. All wire transfers from personal accounts must originate in a USA branch so that the consumer can sign forms that they have been informed of the fees involved. ($25)!

So, I have to spend thousands of dollars to flyback, rent a car, hotels etc. so that I can sign a form that says I agree to pay $25!!

I need to find out about ACH transfers and didn't know that they could be sent to Thai bank.

Regulation overreach by a total police state!

I'm guessing but my gut is telling me some of above is the bank's policy regarding the part about originating in a brick-and-mortar branch. Heck, I still have like $5 in a small credit union (just to keep in open...use to have a lot more in that credit union for various reasons) where you cannot transfer money to other banks domestically or internationally via the bank's internet banking, but have to go to the branch to initiate the transfer...and before I moved to Thailand over 5 years ago I asked the credit union "what if" I did need to initiate a transfer from Thailand?...they said then I needed to sign some special forms for them for them to keep on file and then I could initiate the transfer via phone/fax. This credit union has been like this for years...way before the new regulations.

Yeap, my gut is telling me it's just the bank's policy quite possibly driven by the new regulations but the core fault is not the regulations--it just how the bank wants to now operate for transfers. It wouldn't happen to be a smaller or regional bank would it as it seems small/regional banks/credit unions can be restrictive on doing certain banking actions...the kind of restrictions that drive face time at one of their branches. And maybe what they are really needing from you is the signing of updated forms and maybe a copy of your latest form of ID/drivers license/passport which would allow you to continue to initiate transfers via fax/phone. Might want to talk to them again.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Pib

[WBS2555]

Transfer money from USA to Thailand via US-ACH system and Bangkok bank's New York branch network...lower fees on international funds transfer fees and your money will be transferred directly to your Bangkok Bank account in Thailand.

If you have a bank account with Bangkok Bank in Thailand and have a US bank account / US bank Internet banking services, you can remit funds from US via the Internet banking using the US-ACH system and 9 digit routing number of Bangkok Bank's New York branch.

To use the service: Initiate / register the transaction via the Internet Banking service linked to your US bank account:

Go to Domestic. Interbank Transfer Menu > Go to institution Transfer option > Select Bangkok Bank New York as the recipient bank > enter the 9 digit routing number Bangkok Bank New York branch '026008691' > enter the bank name as Bangkok bank New York branch > enter the account number (Thai baht or Foreign Currency account) of the recipient at Bangkok Bank in Thailand. The US bank will initiate two test-deposit sending small amounts to the recipient's bank account in Thailand, to verify the account validity and email asking the recipient to check and confirm the test deposit amounts.

More details: www.bangkokbank.com > Personal Banking > Transfers > Transferring into Thailand > Transfer money from USA to Thailand

Hope this help!

[fletchsmile]

The XXX just denotes "primary branch". SWIFTs can use 8 or 11 digits. If you only advise 8 then the assumption is you want the primary branch.

The code BKKBTHBKXXX has been valid for ages and nothing has changed. So BBL were quite correct.

The hassles are on your US side. They obviously have changed sometging their side whether system or person who previously knew what they were doing. For whatever reason the US side seemed to think your code was incomplete.

Point being. Not BBL s fault at all they would accept both 8 digit and11 digit as they have always done. The issue is on US side.

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wimpy]

So, I am setting up to do ACH transfers to my BB savings account. The two trial deposits were credited to my BB account today. Anyone know which of the exchange rates I should use to convert the trial deposits back to US$? The deposits were approximately $.50 and $.25

These are the choices for today. Thanks.

Currency Description Bank Note Buying Rates Selling
Rates
Bill-DD-TT Buying Rates Selling Rates Sight Bill TT

USD1

USD: 1-2 30.14 31.52

USD5

USD: 5-20 30.48 31.52

USD50

USD: 50-100 30.92 31.57 31.07 31.17 31.42

[yankee99]

So, I am setting up to do ACH transfers to my BB savings account. The two trial deposits were credited to my BB account today. Anyone know which of the exchange rates I should use to convert the trial deposits back to US$? The deposits were approximately $.50 and $.25

These are the choices for today. Thanks.

Currency Description Bank Note Buying Rates Selling

Rates

Bill-DD-TT Buying Rates Selling Rates Sight Bill TT

USD1 USD: 1-2 30.14 31.52

USD5 USD: 5-20 30.48 31.52

USD50 USD: 50-100 30.92 31.57 31.07 31.17 31.42

You need to call the bank and they will give you the correct amount in usd...

[Pib]

So, I am setting up to do ACH transfers to my BB savings account. The two trial deposits were credited to my BB account today. Anyone know which of the exchange rates I should use to convert the trial deposits back to US$? The deposits were approximately $.50 and $.25

These are the choices for today. Thanks.

Currency Description Bank Note Buying Rates Selling

Rates

Bill-DD-TT Buying Rates Selling Rates Sight Bill TT

USD1

USD: 1-2 30.14 31.52

USD5

USD: 5-20 30.48 31.52

USD50

USD: 50-100 30.92 31.57 31.07 31.17 31.42

As already mentioned, it would be best to call the bank to be sure of getting the correct amounts. However, since bank's trial deposit verification systems usually give you two tries to enter the correct deposits amounts before saying your have failed the test you could give the entries "one try" with your calculated rates to see if you get lucky.

Since the funds probably arrived overnight and were awaiting the Bangkok Bank's final approved before posting you probably got the 1st exchange update (a.k.a., opening exchange rate...also called Update 1). The times I have done ACH transfers or trial deposits I always got the first exchange rate of the day.

Use the "TT Buying Rate Update 1" and then round to the nearest penny. The TT Buying Rate is what is used for incoming wire/ACH/SWIFT transfers...even ACH trial deposits which is nothing more than a small ACH transfer which is not hit with any fees.

Good luck...but remember it would be best to contact the bank for the exact amounts.

[Nowhereman60]

• I have just had 46 cents and 44 cents sent to my Bangkok Bank account. The reason I know the amount is that I have SMS notice when money is transfered into or out of my account. It also gives the amount in dollars. So I am sure if you call Bangkok Bank they will know the amount sent.

[grin]

FYI - No need to make 2 trips to AEON ATM to withdraw 60K baht from Schwab. Make 2 withdrawals on the same trip, one before 3 PM and one after 3 PM which is midnight Pacific time in the US.

Grin

[Jingthing]

What makes people think that the Bangkok Bank ACH thing that is such a blessing for so many American expats won't be under threat from these changes too?

[Nowhereman60]

If it happens,so be with it. We deal with it. But for now I am saving over $20 each time I make a transfer and I don't have to put up with the BS from my bank, just do it online fast and simple.

[Genericnic]

I just establish an account to use the ACH with my bank, they will send two despoits of 50 cent each, I must verify the amount when it is deposited into my Bangkok Bank account.  Hope it works.   Thanks for advise.

For a routine, monthly US pension, check out the Charles Schwab Bank checking account and their no fee ATM/Debit card.  There are a few other options mentioned on this banking/finance thread as well. 

 

If it works for your situation, and you are able to open one of these, DDS your pension into above account.  It's available immediately, no on-line transfers or phone calls, no waiting for the ACH or wire to show up (weekends/bank holidays ), and you avoid middle man transfer fees entirely. 

 

Schwab limits (my) ATM pulls to $1,000/day, so as we normally burn through about 60k Baht/mo, two visits to AEON ATM usually does the trick. 

Are you sure the $1,000/day limit is from Schwab? I asked and they told me there was no limit from them. The only limits I have ever encountered were from the ATM side, i.e. The local bank.

David

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Pib]

Yes it's $1000 a day for a card linked to your Schwab "bsnk" sccount as shown in their Visa debit card booklet that comes with the card. I have also asked them via the Schwab ibanking secure mail and they confirmed it's $1000 a day whether from an ATM or over the counter.. just like the booklet says. Plus when the AEON ATM use to have a much higher withdrawal limit per transction like around Bt40K and I wanted to withdrawal right up to the card's $1000 limit but I had the wrong exchange rate in mind and went slightly over the $1000 limit the card rejected and the ATM display said to contact my card issuing bank. But then I immediately tried again by lowering the requested amount by 1000 baht to get it slightly under $1000 and the transaction was approved. I've done this twice... that is having the wrong exchange rate in mind when using the ATM and requesting too much money. Before when the exchange rate was a little over 32 baht/dollar I've withdrawn Bt32K from an AEON ATM in one withdrawal.

Now Schwab cards linked to the brokerage account versus the bank account or a Schwab International card linked to a brokersge account are a little different from what I've heard...like being able to do a higher over the counter/cash advance if the local bank allows the amount.

ATMs can also set their own limits just like how AEON ATMs recently lowered their limit per transaction down to Bt20K. So, to reach your $1000 limit you need to slide the card in twice which I've been doing no problem.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

[wimpy]

Are you sure the $1,000/day limit is from Schwab? I asked and they told me there was no limit from them. The only limits I have ever encountered were from the ATM side, i.e. The local bank.

David

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I have two. Initially a $1000 limit on each. By asking nicely, I got the limit on one of them raised to $2000. This was the one with a funded and active brokerage account, which may have had something to do with it.

[Pib]

Asking nicely can work sometimes. Recently I asked one of my banks who has a transaction limit of $5K for outbound ACH transfers (this $5K limit is standard for all accounts) to raise it...preferably to $20K, but I included some compromise words saying $15K or $10K would be still work if $20K was just a flat no-go. While my other banks have much higher standard ACH limits (like all my other banks), this bank just has $5K set as their standard limit for all customers. I knew that $20K would probably not be received too well on the bank's end although I knew of at least one guy who got a higher amount. I had to send in a formal request via the bank's secure ibanking email. They approved the request to $15K, which is 3 times their standard amount. This amount is fine for me...actually $10K would have been fine...as when/if using a ACH transfer to send over periodic day-to-day living money, $10K is about all I would want to send at one time for living costs. I haven't done any ACH transfers for a couple of years since I'vd been using my no foreign transaction fee debt cards, but you never know when a card may implement a foreign transaction fee and then it becomes cheaper just to do ACH transfers. Plan B so to speak.

[55Jay]

FYI - No need to make 2 trips to AEON ATM to withdraw 60K baht from Schwab. Make 2 withdrawals on the same trip, one before 3 PM and one after 3 PM which is midnight Pacific time in the US.

Grin

It's a good excuse to go for a drive, but I hadn't thought of the time slot, will keep it in mind. Thanks.

J

[lomatopo]

If it happens,so be with it. We deal with it. But for now I am saving over $20 each time I make a transfer and I don't have to put up with the BS from my bank, just do it online fast and simple.

It sounds like you successfully set up the ACH process.

My bank, BofA, requires a One-Time Password, OTP, sent to a mobile phone to initiate an on-line "outside-the-bank" ACH transfer via BBL/NY to my BBL account here. Until recently my T-Mo (U.S./pre-paid) phone did not roam here, < it now does >, so I had changed my contact (mobile) number with BofA to my Google Voice number, which can send/receive SMSes, sent via GMail. Google Voice is a (currently/on-going) free real 10-digit telephone number in the U.S., which offers a multitude of features and functions. This process has worked well and there is no need for the SafePass card (only $20, but yet another device to keep track of).

BofA charges $3, BBL/NY charges $10, and BBL/TH charges 200 - 500 baht, so typically cost-effective for large-scale transfers?

Edited November 10, 2013 by lomatopo

[papersource]

WBS2555 and others on this thread: Thank You!

It was a breeze for me to go and open an account at Bangkok Bank and do my first Ach through BB NY.

Took a couple of days for the funds to show up but this is a superior way to send money from the usa than the old wire transfers.

[Pib]

WBS2555 and others on this thread: Thank You!

It was a breeze for me to go and open an account at Bangkok Bank and do my first Ach through BB NY.

Took a couple of days for the funds to show up but this is a superior way to send money from the usa than the old wire transfers.

Yeap, pretty much works identically to transferring funds to one of your other U.S. banks except you got two low cost Bangkok Bank fees...their New York branch (a U.S. bank) fee as the funds pass through them since you are using their ACH routing number....and then the fee at your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch to receive/convert the funds. Definitely a LOT cheaper than a wire/SWIFT transfer.

[chubby]

...from Schwab

While standing letters involving US Dollars sent domestically can be activate online, at this time foreign wires are restricted. As of October 28, 2013 the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau has extended Regulation E protection, part of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection act, to certain foreign wires. Outgoing wires that fall under Reg E are now required to have disclosure done prior to the sender paying for the wire. The disclosure must include:

• Foreign exchange rate if sent in a foreign currency
• Fees and taxes collected by the broker/dealer
• Fees charged by agents abroad and intermediary institutions if any
• Amount expected to be delivered abroad
• Other consumer rights

For this reason, we will have your standing instructions on file, however we will need to speak with you before transmitting the wire.

[sandyf]

The XXX just denotes "primary branch". SWIFTs can use 8 or 11 digits. If you only advise 8 then the assumption is you want the primary branch.

The code BKKBTHBKXXX has been valid for ages and nothing has changed. So BBL were quite correct.

The hassles are on your US side. They obviously have changed sometging their side whether system or person who previously knew what they were doing. For whatever reason the US side seemed to think your code was incomplete.

Point being. Not BBL s fault at all they would accept both 8 digit and11 digit as they have always done. The issue is on US side.

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Correct.

Before I started my pension i looked for a bank with an 11 character code as my bank only had the 8 characters. I thought it would be better if funds came direct to branch rather than pass through head office.

I asked at most of the banks and they all said the code was 8 characters. I finally came across someone who knew a bit about it. He said that there were no banks in Thailand with 11 character codes for personal accounts, that the only 11 character codes in use are for financial and corporate business.

If the software involved requires 11 characters then it is swift protocol to populate the remaining fields with a capital X

[Langsuan Man]

What makes people think that the Bangkok Bank ACH thing that is such a blessing for so many American expats won't be under threat from these changes too?

Because it is a domestic ACH and thus not subject to any international banking restrictions and there is no reason to believe that the USG will change the rules for domestic funds transfers