Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra's speech on the amnesty bill

EvilDrSomkid · November 5, 2013

Yup. I've said this before.

If Thaksin would freely come back, serve his jail term (2 years, come on, probably get get out after a year for good behaviour) most of this trouble would die down.

He could have made a deal that if he would serve this sentence and the other charges dropped, After that, he could start all over again.

Unfortunately, that will not happen, because he is a megalomaniac and is utterly convinced that what he does is in the best interest of Shin Clan and Thailand.

They are the same, to him.

LuckyLew · November 5, 2013

Great idea ... but what planet are you from? 555

Hawkman · November 5, 2013

555 Well I wasn't being entirely serious as we know that will never happen, when power and megalomania are involved. In an ideal world it would be a move forward though.

gerry1011 · November 5, 2013

I do agree with you that Thaksin, once he is back, should stay out I politics (for real).

If I were him, I would certainly not renounce to the money that was confiscated, since it was confiscated by his enemies. But what I would do is to donate every baht of it for projects benefiting the country. He would be seen as a hero by his followers for sure. I am not sure he would do such thing though...

There will be no reconciliation without having him come back to Thailand. Millions of people like him. If you want true reconciliation you cannot keep him away. Too many people are awaiting his return. Reconciliation must involves everyone.

I don't think that there will be any reconciliation if all the mess that was created is not erased. That is why, even if it is not totally right, an amnesty is, in my opinion, the best way to overcome this situation. To continue to fight over only one man is the worst thing that can happen. It's not rational and it only extends the present damaging situation which, one day, will have to end anyway.

Edited November 5, 2013 by gerry1011

Misterwhisper · November 5, 2013

I think there's a mistake in that speech.

Shouldn't it read "thank you 3 times" at the end?

Felt 35 · November 5, 2013

Yes and who is the sibling which have been in and around the country the last 10+ years

virtualtraveller · November 5, 2013

So, she's finally spoke up, problem is, every time she opens her mouth it becomes so damn obvious that she lacks the intelligence for this job, it's just plain insulting to the whole country and her party that she comes out with this stuff, how she keeps a straight face is beyond me.

whybother · November 5, 2013

There is zero chance of him staying out of politics.

There is zero chance of him donating any of his confiscated money to benefit the country.

There is zero chance of reconciliation if he comes back.

If he really was worried about the country, he wouldn't try and come back. Then the country could move on.

Why is it that the red shirts and PTP supporters need him to come back so that they can move on? Why do they need him?

Hawkman · November 5, 2013

Though my stance on Thaksin is different from yours, a very sensible post by yourself.

I agree that as things stand things will never move forward, it can't go on. If an amnesty was to include a legal confirmation that the people who benefit from the amnesty cannot get involved politically again that could be a future step, but PT and Thaksin will need to agree to it and I can't see that happening.

It's also the timing of this amnesty and the arrogance shown towards a bulk of their own supporters that have riled not just TV members but many, many Thais too.

And the statements since, for example slamming people for protesting during the mourning of the monk, but at the same time they didn't care about the mourning when pushing through this amnesty. That's what's getting people's goats up.

My Thai friend, who left work today to join the protest said before she left, I hate how this government speaks to us as if we're stupid. When I asked, what do you think is the solution; 'God Knows', she said, 'I can't see one that will benefit everyone'.

A completely divided country.

ratcatcher · November 5, 2013

Unfortunately it has always been about one man, Thaksin Shinawatra.

Indeed, if he comes back, and right now that is not a certainty, but IF, he would never agree to relinquish his drive for revenge and reclamation of his fortune.

He has had many opportunities to be a good Samaritan so to speak and with his billions, he could have made life for the poor of Thailand easier. In fact he could have made himself a kind of saint in the eyes of many Thais not just those of the red persuasion. You are right when you say he would not do such a thing. That is because above all Thaksin is an avaricious man.

What has happened now with this ill thought out amnesty is that more and more Thais are seeing it for what it really is, a whitewash job designed solely to clear him and others of all wrongdoing for almost the last 10 years.

You are correct, millions love him and equally, millions despise him. Sadly there may be no reconciliation if he does come back to Thailand. Erasing the mess of corruption and events of the last 10 years is the easy way out.

Abhisit and Suthep, Prayuth, the army chief are against this bill. The families of the dead of 2011 are against the bill even though they've been coerced into supporting it. They want to see Abhisit and Suthep answer charges in court. The two men are willing to do so. Is Thaksin? No. He wants a clean slate and all forgiven. He feels he is not guilty of anything. That must surely qualify him as delusional at least.

"It's not rational and it only extends the present damaging situation which, one day, will have to end anyway."

Not many things done by politicians it seems, are rational, but hopefully this particular bill will die a quiet death in the senate chambers.

gerry1011 · November 5, 2013

There is always a chance if you are ready to open the way for that chance.

Most anti-Thaksin just want to have it their way, with no compromise. This is why they won't give a chance to reconciliation. Its always the same negative rant with no real interest in thinking about reaching a solution.

Some people want to see the Thaksin fall out, others want to see Abhisit rot in a prison cell. Both sides are right from their own perspective.

Adults should behave like adults. Not like fighting in a children playground.

You don't have to ask why the red shirts and PT need him to come back. It's obvious. Thaksin is their leader. And since we speak about millions of people it would be better to find a way to make them happy too.

The Dems should sit with PT and the other coalition partners, instead of continuing this childish and irrational fight which is going nowhere.

They would probably gain votes too by being more constructive.

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whybother · November 5, 2013

How many times has he said he is finished with politics? How can anyone believe anything else he says?

What is the compromise from Thaksin's side?

He wants to come back and be PM again. That's not compromise. That's just Ground Hog Day.

Hawkman · November 5, 2013

But PT need to compromise too. Can't have it all Thaksin's way. His supporters are just as childish, putting him first before the country. All his supporters are moaning about the protest, but I didn't see them moaning when they brought the capital to a standstill in 2011 and burnt our school down along with other businesses.

Millions of people want him, millions don't. You can't just give it to the people who want him back and ignore the others who don't want him. There are many, many valid reasons why people don't trust him, are scared of what he plans for this country and what he will do to his enemies.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Hawkman

gerry1011 · November 5, 2013

So, what is the solution?

Keep the conflict as it is?

Go on with years and years of trials which will each time inflame one of the two sides?

Keep the red shirts calling for Thaksin's return and the yellows trying to avoid it?

Keep the society devided and the economy uncertain?

It's impossible to want reconciliation and at the same time want to keep Thaksin out of it.

You are probably right in saying that Thaksin is avaricious and that he would probably not want to forget the money that was confiscated from him.

However, if it is one of the ways to reach reconciliation, the chance should be given to the idea.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited November 5, 2013 by gerry1011

Hawkman · November 5, 2013

One solution will benefit one half, one solution will benefit the other.

Why does Thaksin need to be a part of it? A country and its people are more important than one person. Why can't they just choose Yingluck as their leader? Why does he HAVE to be a part of it?

Edited November 5, 2013 by Hawkman

gerry1011 · November 5, 2013

You know the answers to your questions. We all know the answers.

So, why not try to debate about a plan that includes Thaksin, since we all know that a plan without him is impossible.

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whybother · November 5, 2013

What compromise are the red shirts and PTP offering? Nothing. SFA.

Some how they think that with Thaksin back and in power, that reconciliation can just *happen*. But that was the problem in the first place. They basically want everything to go back to the way it was in 2005/6. I don't know how you would consider that reconciliation.

The solution is for Thaksin to go away.

The red shirts will still have their party in government. They will still have their rice scheme.

That's compromise.

ThaiOats · November 5, 2013

Most anti-Thaksin just want to have it their way, with no compromise. This is why they won't give a chance to reconciliation. Its always the same negative rant with no real interest in thinking about reaching a solution.

What would you consider a compromise then? It seems you're keen on thinking about reaching a solution but haven't proposed any. One important question to ask is reconciliation between whom? The Red shirts and Abhisit, the Yellow shirts and Thaksin, Thaksin and Abhisit, Elites vs the poor or...? If they can't answer this question, then they should have an open forum so that all sides can discuss on who needs to reconcile.

Some people want to see the Thaksin fall out, others want to see Abhisit rot in a prison cell. Both sides are right from their own perspective.

From this comment, you're thinking it's all about Thaksin and it's also all about Abhisit when you clearly said that it shouldn't be about one man. So why should it be that Abhisit rot in a prison cell? Is that all what the red-shirts and pro PTP want from the opposition? Kind of shallow compared to how much damage the amnesty bill would do.

Adults should behave like adults. Not like fighting in a children playground.

Yea and the PM should act like a PM and not like an escape artist (both brother and sister). Logical thinking and intelligent debates were never a forte for the PTP government which is why they have declined every debate possible. Remember the Thai Journalist Associate's proposal for a debate in which the PTP government agreed on and then backtracked? It's because they know they can't justify any of it.

The Dems should sit with PT and the other coalition partners, instead of continuing this childish and irrational fight which is going nowhere. They would probably gain votes too by being more constructive.

I guess you haven't been following the parliamentary debates or listened to any of Abhisit's "Truth" speeches. He incorporated a lot of logos in his speeches and pointed out all the flaws of the government policies which the PTP and supports have clearly ignored. Rice scheme was a scam, yet they went through with it and the Dems pointed it out. The opposition's arguments against the amnesty bill are sound and it's the reason why there are so many against the bill. Only those who are brain washed, uneducated (yea I said it), paid off, and pigs-at-the-trough are around to support it.

whybother · November 5, 2013

See. There is the problem. There is no compromise by the PTP/red shirts if Thaksin simply comes back as before.

How can you even consider that being compromise?? You dig at the anti-Thaksin people about compromise, but you can't offer the slightest bit of compromise from the PTP/red shirt side.

rubl · November 5, 2013

Duly noted. One more reason to charge Abhisit/Suthep for 'premeditated murder'

Hawkman · November 5, 2013

But you solution is not a compromise, it's for the benefit of one half only. That's not a compromise. What is? I don't know. Agree to a reconcilliation with him coming back but no legal access to politics or the money he stole; but I can't see him agreeing to that one bit.

But it's certainly very, very childish of the reds to just want him only as their leader, no-one else, wanting it all their way.

rubl · November 5, 2013

You're absolutely right, my dear chap. The government and the majority party (Thaksin's thinks) Pheu Thai should stop being obsessed by one man. Two years in government and mainly obsessed with getting St. Thaksin the Innocent back in Thailand, absolved from all 'minor anyway' wrongdoing. As he once said in an interview "when people see I'm back and not out for revenge, people will like me".

In the mean time in this universe here and now protests are mounting ...

Hawkman · November 5, 2013

And with that comment, you hit the nail "with pin point accuracy" on the head.

There is no compromise in this situation I feel.

Gerry1011, is spot on with one thing, it can't go on like this from both sides, hence why the country needs to start coming first and Thaksin to go away.

And Thaksin could solve all of this if he just removes himself from it all. Country comes first NOT him.

If he addresses his supporters saying, he will always be with them, but will no longer get involved and for them to fully get behind Yingluck and PT while he enjoys an early retirement, then the Red Shirts WILL accept this. But he would never do this.

That would be the solution.

Thaksin is delaying the reconciliation, no-one else.

ThaiOats · November 5, 2013

Tell the family of the deceased red-shirts that 7.5 million baht has to be paid back to the government since everything will be nullified and see how much support they would get. Tell the family members that the deceased never existed and just pretend it never happened. C'mon, anyone with an ounce of intelligence and morality would know that an AMNESTY is NOT the solution.

The Democrats proposed that the government provide a list of all the Red-Shirt detainees and see who would be eligible for amnesty; minor offenses, breaking the SoE, etc. It would make sense however, to exclude corrupt politicians and people who caused harm to others. It makes so much sense that I don't understand why people can't see what this is all about? It's never about the people, it's all about that ONE MAN.

Artisi · November 5, 2013

There is really a very easy solution to all this, all criminal and pending criminal charges stand, those charged stand trial and accept the outcome of the case. Possibly some of the (political) charges arising from the yellow-shirts, red-shirts, black shirts etc levied during the unrest in the streets over the years need a review, this of course doesn't include criminal activities, shootings, burnings, bashings etc.

Sort this out to start with, no need for amnesties, white-wash tactics , government interference, us versus them, my thingy is bigger than your thingy, just get back to basics.

Everyone stands trial irrespective of who you are or who you think you are.

Sort this out once and for all and the country can start getting back to normal, those guilty as charged do their time and the majority of thinking people will accept this and get on with their life.

All those wanting or expecting favours because "I'm someone special" don't get any preference, if you've been charged you front the court - let the legal system decide guilty or not guilty, not a bunch of self-serving, brown-nosing, paid to jump thru my hoops when I blow my whistle politicians and their hanger-on's.

Guess it's getting a bit late and I'm starting to nod-off and dream, better head for a cold shower, wake up and get my brain back on track.

gerry1011 · November 5, 2013

If you agree with him coming back but no access to politics it is already a very good start. At least you soften your stance and give a chance to reconciliation. Only thinking like this is opening the door to a solution. If such an idea is put on the table, constructive discussion can start. Without the usual negative rant that immediately jeopardizes any constructive thinking...

By not taking part in politics Thaksin would make an enormous compromise.

If you continue in that positive direction you should not refer to the money that was confiscated from him as stolen money. Because it is not a constructive way of addressing the issue. And it is not stolen money either.

My point is that it is useless to think that Thaksin can be left out of any plan.

Its just not possible.

Unfortunately some are just not ready yet to accept that obvious fact.

So, if the dems were ready to accept that too, and give a chance to reconciliation instead of being always against everything, it would be much more constructive.

Compromise cannot be reached if the parties do not sit together.

I don't think that I am wrong in saying that the dems, until now, never have been willing to sit at the reconciliation table.

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rubl · November 5, 2013

I don't think you're right

My point is that people should look beyond this annoying man who threatens the tranquility of Thailand and it's population. Had he indeed retreated from politics he would have been living in Thailand by now as respected senior adviser or the like. As it is now, a return may not be safe for him.

Compromise meaning a forced through amnesty for those who don't need it, rewarding corruption, and the like. Reconciliation table, with one arrm strapped to the back and the other shot off and a 'impartial' speaker switching offf microphone and so on and so forth?

whybother · November 5, 2013

How many times has Thaksin said he is finished with politics?

If he HAD kept out of politics in the last 7 years, then there probably wouldn't be such a large protest about him now.

The problem is that it doesn't seem he has any intention of staying out of politics, so it's a bit hard to bring that into the compromise equation.

gerry1011 · November 5, 2013

Your point is that the people "should" look beyond Thaksin. However, the reality is that millions of Thais don't want to do what you recommend them to do. So, any solution should start by taking the reality into account. Not what one thinks people should do.

You are a good example of someone who is not ready to even consider a solution that does not completely fit your own personal ideas...

whybother · November 5, 2013

Millions what Thaksin. Millions don't want Thaksin. That's the reality.

I recommend that the millions that want Thaksin "move forward" without him. They don't need him.

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