Phuket expats risking lives on the road to stay in paradise

[hellodolly]

The root cause isn't the immigration rules, it's the crap, dangerous drivers.

Common sense.

Also they are to be found in the home countries the foreigners come from.

Kind of a Barnum statement. (there's a sucker born every minute) Every one risks there lives when they get on the road all over the world. some places worse than others.

Some places because they have no safety equipment some because they never learn to drive. Some because of the lax drinking driving laws. Also surprise surprise but when I had an accident in Canada I was in a room with a RCMP officer and he told me they had as many accidents caused by people falling asleep at the wheel as they did by drinking.

[hellodolly]

there would be far less minibuses on the road, far less mayhem and far less deaths

I doubt removing minibuses would make much of a dent at all.

I drive the road from Pattaya to Chantaburi fairly often and it is dangerous.

I drive that route every month. It's not dangerous... If you follow the normal driving advice that has been done to death on countless forums, countless times. Never mind. Be a drama queen. It's more fun.

I doubt removing minibuses would make much of a dent at all.

You got that right

Never ceases to amaze me how some people figure that the roads will be safer if they put more vehicles on it.

[bitcoinbob]

not only the visa run companies and govt making money, but one very important thing that just dawned on me. the double and quad counting of the same tourist. the thai govtment always claims tourist numbers are going up bullshit, they are doing the old chinese game of recounting the same tourist. 12 leave on 90 visa 4 times a year and become over the year a total of 60 tourist but they are the same 15 tourist. thats how they pump the numbers of the 25 million tourist a year they claim what is the real number????

[KarenBravo]

''The experience left Mr Menning questioning the immigration system that requires him to leave the country in order to stay in it''

This quote here, which I think is the way I ever saw it expressed.

One thought always went through my mind about this subject.

At least for Phuket, why not have a boat in international waters, to go to satisfy the requirement to leave the country?

Surely some country would see some benefit in having such a boat manned with customs officers....

I see international waters at 12 miles, some sites refer to a 25 mile distance....

Oh well, if it was that easy, would already have been done...

Shame, but, it doesn't work like that. You can sign out of a country, but, you must sign into and out of another one before signing back in to the first country.

It applies to shipping as well.

[pagallim]

Many of us come from nations with far more stringent visa rules, both in the law and it's application, than Thailand. With very few exceptions, nationals of countries other than Thailand can simply step over the border to one of four (correct me if I'm wrong somebody) adjoining nations, and simply return back again. That of course doesn't include the arrival by air from anywhere else in the world.

Are 'tour bus' orientated 'visa runs' dangerous? Methinks they are. Are those undertaking them aware of this? Methinks they are. There's the suggestion that those requiring visa extensions/renewals have sufficient knowledge already for them to make informed decisions.

Within the context of how many of these runs are undertaken over say, one year, and the resultant, tragic though perhaps inevitable accidents that occur, the road conditions coupled with occasional terrible weather, makes such news reports perennial. As KB also points out, driver competence plays more than a little part, though this is applicable throughout the country, be it in urban areas or long distances.

What I really find ironic, is that this particular lady who died, is from an Asean nation, and shortly I believe there will be free movement of labour between Asean nationals that will no longer require work permits etc (similar to those within the European Community nations).

Edited November 6, 2013 by pagallim

[SantiSuk]

The main problem is the old-men-in-Thai-government's attitude to foreigners

....so the government of your home country adopts an open borders policy towards foreign immigrants does it?

Get real, Thailand is far easier on incomers than most countries and your apparent belief that you should have increased rights to stay in Thailand is understandable but so is the attitude of those "old-men-in-Thai-government".

[johnefallis]

These requirements are not in place to make life difficult for foreigners, he said. They are in place to protect Thai workers. For example, if a company can pay foreigners a low salary below the legal minimum then they may prefer to hire foreigners over Thais."

A country that has a 2% unemployment rate needs laws to protect the jobs of it's citizens from foreigners? Hmmm...What is wrong with this picture?

So 'foreigners' are only Caucasian?!

Exactly, if Thailand opens its borders to Philippines workers on a massive scale the hotels, hospitals, etc will hire them in droves. better English ,more educated, and extremely hard working.

More educated? Better English? Extremely hard working? Really? Wow, they have you fooled. You haven't spent much time in the Philippines, huh?

That's not how I, or my Filipina wife would describe Filipinos.

Edited November 6, 2013 by johnefallis

[Emdog]

It's unsafe to be on the roads in Thailand? Wow, I didn't know that! Guess I'd better order that kevlar body armor I saw on Amazon. What is the problem? Poorly designed roads? Maybe listen to those who say "accidents happen everywhere in the world" and do nothing?

[NamKangMan]

"Phuket Immigration Inspector Napat Nusen explained that certain requirements needed to be met in order for foreigners to receive a one-year permit-to-stay along with their one-year visa.

The two major hurdles for most one-year permit-to-stay applicants are a minimum salary requirement and minimum ratio of Thai to foreign workers at the business registered on their work permit, Lt Col Napat said."

If the deceased singer was working then she should had required a work permit. With a work permit then a one year extension would be available subject to salary paid. I guess she was earning enough for a WP but not enough for an extension.

Maybe if she was Burmese, and working on a construction site, she would stlll be alive.

[NamKangMan]

people have to understand that the 90 days bla bla is only money ...nothing else !!!

Exactly. It actually doesn't stop ANYONE from not coming back into Thailand.

It just fuels the "visa run" industry, which is a big money spinner.

[hawksway]

We all know the dangers posed by mini bus transport. This is a terrible shock but after a few days most will forget and got back to Visa Runs. The only solution is for Foreigners to share car hiring. At 1200 Baht a day plus fuel it should not prove prohibitive. Just speak to each other or set up an on line group, make an Excel Spreadsheet and kill off this dangerous trade.

[Zodaka]

paradise? I don't think that's the case for Thailand. Hasn't been for some years now. I spend less and less time here. Other beat places to go. phnom pehn is up and coming and more friendly towards foreigners, and long term visas easy. Spain, Hungary, Romania, all rising interesting places which are liberal and cheaper (yes cheaper) than Thailand.

[Jing Joe]

What a dreadful waste of lives happening. Sad.

I filmed a large bus overtaking another up ChangMai way, over the double line on a blind bend at high speed. Scary.

That's a main reason I don't go back to "paradise". Too many crazy drivers.

High speed + wet road = scary. Anywhere, anytime, always.

Lots in the article about the visa run, mostly blaming the visas??, but did you notice the second last paragraph ;- "GPS fitted, and if they are driving too fast we call them and tell them to slow down."

More police presence needed to actually enforce this? Any speed cameras there?

My wife admitted having occasionally driven up to 160km/h in Thailand. Scary.

She's drastically changed this habit here in Oz.

She erred, the speed camera took the picture and was fined $220 for not much over the 60k limit.

Would speed cameras there change much?

Even companies here in Oz are charged a huge fine unless/until they pass the ticket to the employed driver responsible who then pay a usual speeding fine themself.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Jing Joe

[runningfree73]

I don't think Thai immigration laws are all that different from those of most other countries. In any case, as a sovereign country, its laws are made to serve and protect the interests of Thai nationals, not foreigners.

I also have to wonder why people keep raising the issue of corruption. Yes, we all know Thailand is a corrupt country, and yes, Thais are motivated by money. Wow! Isn't that a revelation? However, it does seem kind of hypocritical when people pass judgement based on their own privileged Western standards.

[Benmart]

people have to understand that the 90 days bla bla is only money ...nothing else !!!

Thanks for helping me to "Understand". It sounds more of opinion than fact unless there is additional information that can be shared. The "bla, bla", IMO, is overused and underage.

[Benmart]

"Phuket Immigration Inspector Napat Nusen explained that certain requirements needed to be met in order for foreigners to receive a one-year permit-to-stay along with their one-year visa.

The two major hurdles for most one-year permit-to-stay applicants are a minimum salary requirement and minimum ratio of Thai to foreign workers at the business registered on their work permit, Lt Col Napat said."

If the deceased singer was working then she should had required a work permit. With a work permit then a one year extension would be available subject to salary paid. I guess she was earning enough for a WP but not enough for an extension.

Maybe if she was Burmese, and working on a construction site, she would stlll be alive.

She isn't and wasn't. She was a beautiful, human being worthy of serious conversation.

[Benmart]

I recently returned from a week in Issan driving myself and friends to see the sights. What I noticed were the silver or white vans that were driving in excess of 120 kph (Posted max in the area) zig-zagging in traffic, tailgating and wandering over the fog line and road shoulder.

My friend, who had ridden in similar looking vans on visa runs before he got his long stay, said they were on visa runs to Laos. I've noticed similar vans here in Pattaya and their driving habits are erratic and dangerous, with lane wandering, zig-zagging...you get the picture. When I am crossing the street on Pattaya /2nd Road, I treat them as if I have a bullseye on my forehead.

Stay safe, watch out and consider other options for those making visa runs. Maybe, as one other poster suggested, get a group together and rent a car. My rental cost around $35 a day, minus gasoline.

[NoshowJones]

The root cause isn't the immigration rules, it's the crap, dangerous drivers.

Yes it is, but this nonsense about leaving the country in my opinion, is about 90% money.

[NoshowJones]

Phuket Immigration Superintendent Sanchai Chokkajaykij expressed regret over the accident.

“What happened was really sad. No one wants something like that to happen,” he said.

What a stupid statement. Than why is nobody in this country getting his a## up and do something about road safety measures?

Have an idea to fix everything. We change it from the Land of Smiles (LOS) to just plain old LO$$

That applies to almost every country, but in different ways.

[NoshowJones]

“Unfortunately, we don’t have the authority to issue visas or 90-day permits-to-stay at our office in Phuket Town,” Col Sanchai said.

“Only consulates and embassies can issue visas, and only immigration at the borders and airports can issue the 90-day permits-to-stay,” he said.

Then why not require people to make visa runs to the nearest airport for 90 day permits-to-stay?

Because it won't make enough money for certain people.

[stevenl]

The root cause isn't the immigration rules, it's the crap, dangerous drivers.

Yes it is, but this nonsense about leaving the country in my opinion, is about 90% money.

Of course not. They could easily increase the fee and skip the 'leaving the country'. Thai government would make a lot more money that way.

[NoshowJones]

The root cause isn't the immigration rules, it's the crap, dangerous drivers.

Yes it is, but this nonsense about leaving the country in my opinion, is about 90% money.

Of course not. They could easily increase the fee and skip the 'leaving the country'. Thai government would make a lot more money that way.

What your saying certainly makes sense, but the visa run companies, and people in high up places I think will be in cahoots with one another, that's where the money comes in.

[Time Traveller]

“These requirements are not in place to make life difficult for foreigners,” he said. “They are in place to protect Thai workers. For example, if a company can pay foreigners a low salary – below the legal minimum – then they may prefer to hire foreigners over Thais."

A country that has a 2% unemployment rate needs laws to protect the jobs of it's citizens from foreigners? Hmmm...What is wrong with this picture?

Apparently it does. If the foreigners were not doing visa runs every month many thais would become unemployed.

[beowolf2012]

“Unfortunately, we don’t have the authority to issue visas or 90-day permits-to-stay at our office in Phuket Town,” Col Sanchai said.

“Only consulates and embassies can issue visas, and only immigration at the borders and airports can issue the 90-day permits-to-stay,” he said.

Then why not require people to make visa runs to the nearest airport for 90 day permits-to-stay?

because you have to leave Thailand and make money to thai embassy for make aplay for 90 days or turist.

I have stay in TH for 13 year and have to make the visa run every 90 days.

Not have money anoth to make

Retirement visa. minimum 65000.00 baht pr month or 800.000.00 bath income for a year. As a pensionist i do not have that kind of money....

[spidermike007]

A lot of the mini buses are just taking loads of people to the border for visa renewal. if this was scrapped, and people could get new Visas in Phuket or Pattaya for example, there would be far less minibuses on the road, far less mayhem and far less deaths and injuries. I drive the road from Pattaya to Chantaburi fairly often and it is dangerous. I've also travelled the road in minibuses so I know how scary that can be too.

Of course the people who own the minibus companies would lose a lot of money too. I wonder who they are? And do they have any connection to the people who say that foreigners must travel out of the country to stay in it?...

I think one can surmise that the current system is based on money, stimulating the economy, etc, and there is little concern for safety, as is usually the case here. There is no question that Thai immigration policy is in severe need of reform. When will this happen? Will it ever happen? That is anyones guess. But, it needs to happen. Border runs are silly, they degrade the environment, cause a lot of congestion and accidents, are a huge safety risk (most of the mini van drivers take huge risks daily) and are simply unnecessary.

[LivinginKata]

Troll post giving incorrect I formation has been removed.

[SantiSuk]

What a dreadful waste of lives happening. Sad.

I filmed a large bus overtaking another up ChangMai way, over the double line on a blind bend at high speed. Scary.

That's a main reason I don't go back to "paradise". Too many crazy drivers.

High speed + wet road = scary. Anywhere, anytime, always.

Lots in the article about the visa run, mostly blaming the visas??, but did you notice the second last paragraph ;- "GPS fitted, and if they are driving too fast we call them and tell them to slow down."

More police presence needed to actually enforce this? Any speed cameras there?

My wife admitted having occasionally driven up to 160km/h in Thailand. Scary.

She's drastically changed this habit here in Oz.

She erred, the speed camera took the picture and was fined $220 for not much over the 60k limit.

Would speed cameras there change much?

Even companies here in Oz are charged a huge fine unless/until they pass the ticket to the employed driver responsible who then pay a usual speeding fine themself.

I received a letter yesterday showing a very clear picture of my car and a digital readout showing I was going 116 kph a month ago, which I undoubtedly was (location: Saraburi province on highway 2 between Isaan and Bangkok). I usually travel between 110 and 120kph on dual carriageways (divided highways) if conditions are safe

The fine is 1,000 baht and my wife says that the letter makes it clear I will not be able to re-tax my car (which I have to do within 10 days as it happens) if the fine remains unpaid. My wife also says that if I drop my speed to just below 100kph then I should be ok in future - that's gonna put 30 minutes on my journeys to Bangkok and back but at least I'll save some diesel money - a Fortuner seems to be about 10% more efficient at 100 than at 120.

So look out falangs - our unregulated paradise is about to start catching up with the first world! Soon we will be longing to go back to those days of the smiling pirates and occasional 200 baht tea money handouts.

[beowolf2012]

It's unsafe to be on the roads in Thailand? Wow, I didn't know that! Guess I'd better order that kevlar body armor I saw on Amazon. What is the problem? Poorly designed roads? Maybe listen to those who say "accidents happen everywhere in the world" and do nothing?

People from US - Europe know rain can make erosion.

So when you have rain in Thailand -- badly roads

there not have bean repair then the rain water make erosion to the road.

In other word make holes many holes.

If those holes not go be repair the hole will

go bigger.

Then sometime Thai goverment put asfalt on

without to remove the water under the asfalt the solution will be

erosion there work under the asfalt. you will know what happen then?

The asfalt will go soft and have smooth lead

[Monkeyrobot]

I don't use the mini vans they are always having accidents.

[mok199]

lets not forget the real problem here.....van drivers.....i have said many times...''tell them to slow down'' they are not gods ,they are van drivers and useally tired and or stoned....when they run redlights ''say hey'' thats not cool....remember '''they dont care about us'' its up to us to remind them..''you work for us''...so ''speak up''.and if they wont comply say''pull this van over'' and get out and call another....dont be ''intimidated''