British national charged for road fatality in Phuket

[NomadJoe]

99% of helmets here will not save you from anything,

Absolute <deleted>.

The number one problem with helmets here is fitment, not construction. Even the cheap 199B Tesco half-helmets that most Thai's helmet wearers wear (though I would say closer to 70-75% than 99%) will provide some decent protection in an accident but only if they are used as designed i.e. stay between the skull and the object/surface which the wearers head is colliding with. Most of the time the chin strap is not tightened snug enough, or the helmet is improperly placed on the head.

Do more expensive DOT, SNELL and ECE approved helmets provide more protection? Most certainly. But these agencies test helmets in impacts only to 25kph, and in recent testing, a cheap $29 helmet scored far better than a top of the line helmet. Even the cheapest 199B TIS (Thai Industrial Standard) approved helmets, if they manage to stay in place in an accident, provide critical deceleration time for the brain, in addition to providing some protection against punctures and skull fractures.

[tyler2208]

the police have no power to bail or deny bail to someone. if she has been charged by the police i very much doubt she has appeared in court already, she has probably been charged but released from custody on her own recognizance, thats why so many people do runners here, the case has to go through the district attorney fist who has to decide to prosecute or not, it is after then that you are given a court date and told that if you will be requiring bail that you should have the funds or titles to assets on your person to be presented at the bail counter in the courthouse on the day of your first hearing. I cant believe her case would be at this stage so soon, it took a year to get that stage with my case.

[NomadJoe]

The article should note that charging the driver with reckless driving causing death in an accident like this is standard procedure until an investigation can be completed. It's one of the reasons why people flee accident scenes here.

But the drivers nearly always turn themselves in or are tracked down, so can you further explain your reasoning that this is why people flee scenes here, exspecially if it is just standard procedure until an investigation?

Sure. As nakonandy mentioned, it's often to get drugs or alcohol out of their system. But also it is to line up their power friends and collect money needed for bail. Sometimes they also run for fear (real or imagined) of mob retaliation, which is very, very common here.

[simple1]

Maybe, but we don't know that yet.

For the moment he is charged so the accident can be investigated, that is why he is charged. Nobody is blamed as of yet.

Nuff said, the foreigner feels disgruntled without any facts.

Generally charges come after the investigation.

Generally yes, but not so in Thailand. The police have stated this a number of times in previous reports. In an accident causing death, the surviving driver is almost always immediately charged pending investigation regardless of initial indications of fault. It may not mean anything at all.

I am not comfortable with that concept. I wouldn't be impressed if I was charged with something, banged up in the Hilton for a couple of weeks or longer whilst they investigate to see if you have in fact committed an offence. Then they determine that you have done nothing wrong and it is on your way, no sorry for the custody or depriving you of your liberties. Geez If we tried to do that in Australia we would probably find ourselves facing false imprisonment charges. We can't lay a charge until we have all the facts and they have checked by a superior.

True, that's why you should have Thai Bail Bond insurance.

Out of interest what is the process for non Australian residents in case of a fatality or serious injury, such as tourists, are they permitted to leave Australia or have to remain until the accident investigation team have reached a decision? If required to appear in Court are they stopped from departing Australia i.e. border stop issued?

Edited November 9, 2013 by simple1

[NomadJoe]

... This poor chap died from Head injuries, which surely would be prevented with a helmet....

You cannot possibly state that as fact. Helmets only give the wearer an increased chance of survival. From the stats I have seen, they reduce the likelihood of death by about 40%. Brain injury about about 60%.

[stevenl]

Generally charges come after the investigation.

Generally yes, but not so in Thailand. The police have stated this a number of times in previous reports. In an accident causing death, the surviving driver is almost always immediately charged pending investigation regardless of initial indications of fault. It may not mean anything at all.

I am not comfortable with that concept. I wouldn't be impressed if I was charged with something, banged up in the Hilton for a couple of weeks or longer whilst they investigate to see if you have in fact committed an offence. Then they determine that you have done nothing wrong and it is on your way, no sorry for the custody or depriving you of your liberties. Geez If we tried to do that in Australia we would probably find ourselves facing false imprisonment charges. We can't lay a charge until we have all the facts and they have checked by a superior.

True, that's why you should have Thai Bail Bond insurance.

Out of interest what is the process for non Australian residents in case of a fatality or serious injury, such as tourists, are they permitted to leave Australia or have to remain until the accident investigation team have reached a decision? If required to appear in Court are they stopped from departing Australia i.e. border stop issued?

I know of a Dutch girl who had a deadly accident and was accused of reckless driving causing death. She was first remanded, later on allowed to go free but had to stay in Australia with the court case 1+ year in the future. She was lucky, in the end the court case was moved forward and she only had to stay there for about 1/2 year (of course no means of living). She was acquitted, don't know if she received compensation of any form but I would expect not.

[tyler2208]

between my accident here and the actual court day (which was almost a year later) i was allowed to retain my passport and travel freely in and out of the country no problem, both of the families of the boys involved in the accident complained to the police about this and said they were worried i would flee and not return, to which the police replied they can not take my passport and that i was free to travel freely as this was not a crime it was an accident and although i had been charged with causing death by reckless driving it was not a crime that i could be detained for or have my passport confiscated for. The police however did say that if i was to flee or not return that i warrant would be issued for my arrest.

[LivinginKata]

All the grammar police posts removed and the poster's profane response was also not welcome.

[tyler2208]

from reading the brief description as to how the accident occured i would not be surprised if the motorcycle was tring to do her on the inside, she may or may not have indicated but the bike rider was obviously going to fast on her inside to not be able to stop without swerving and hitting the post, if she didnt indicate then she must shoulder some responsibility but even if she had indicated left prior to the collision it looks like he would still have not been able to stop in time, the article has no mention of her being over the alcohol limit this one can only assume she was sober making this a terrible accident but all the same an ACCIDENT, not murder, not attempted murder or any other premeditated act! i doubt she will be detained waiting bail or trial, but she will at some time be required to have her case heard in court at which point bail will most certainly be needed if she is pleading mot guilty or there is an ongoing dispute between her and the family of the deceased, which will in turn require more court dates.

[simple1]

from reading the brief description as to how the accident occured i would not be surprised if the motorcycle was tring to do her on the inside, she may or may not have indicated but the bike rider was obviously going to fast on her inside to not be able to stop without swerving and hitting the post, if she didnt indicate then she must shoulder some responsibility but even if she had indicated left prior to the collision it looks like he would still have not been able to stop in time, the article has no mention of her being over the alcohol limit this one can only assume she was sober making this a terrible accident but all the same an ACCIDENT, not murder, not attempted murder or any other premeditated act! i doubt she will be detained waiting bail or trial, but she will at some time be required to have her case heard in court at which point bail will most certainly be needed if she is pleading mot guilty or there is an ongoing dispute between her and the family of the deceased, which will in turn require more court dates.

The UK person would be detained until she could arrange bail. Hopefully she has bail bond insurance so will be taken care of by her insurer, usually within 24 hours.

I would guess the whole incident will be be settled out of court by paying some form of 'compensation' and the funeral costs for the family, that would be negotiated via the RTP, rather than going though a Court process.

[chooka]

@Simple1 -

They are generally required to surrender their passports and if not there is what is called a PACE alert filed with the federal police at all international departure points preventing them from leaving. Once charged their passports are seized and they may have certain bail conditions attached like reporting to police a certain number of times per week. In certain circumstances if the accused has no place to reside in the country the courts can provide accomadation (normally a budget hotel) as they are still presumed innocent. Lawyers for the accused will normally request this from the court. In relation to compensation/costs if at the committal hearing the court deems that their is insufficient evidence to proceed to trial then the accused can claim costs from the Police. If the matter proceeds to trial then no costs are awarded as it is the court who has made the decision to proceed.

[simple1]

@Simple1 -

They are generally required to surrender their passports and if not there is what is called a PACE alert filed with the federal police at all international departure points preventing them from leaving. Once charged their passports are seized and they may have certain bail conditions attached like reporting to police a certain number of times per week. In certain circumstances if the accused has no place to reside in the country the courts can provide accomadation (normally a budget hotel) as they are still presumed innocent. Lawyers for the accused will normally request this from the court. In relation to compensation/costs if at the committal hearing the court deems that their is insufficient evidence to proceed to trial then the accused can claim costs from the Police. If the matter proceeds to trial then no costs are awarded as it is the court who has made the decision to proceed.

Thanks for the clarification.

[MMarlow]

Yes,of course you may suggest whatever you like sir, but the problem is not with my eyes,....you should well remember the very appropriate for you old adage along the lines of..;

Make sure brain is engaged before putting mouth in gear or in new age..posting on forums,before brain is engaged,

I know full well what was said in the article..10 points to you for getting that part right..i agree 100% and yes , i do understand that you dont charge dead people...brilliant ,thank you!..i often wondered..NOT!

But sadly for you, in your haste to e-bash me you got it all wrong chum, you see, if you had read and observed you would have seen this from steven;#12;

"For the moment he is charged so the accident can be investigated, that is why he is charged. Nobody is blamed as of yet."

...and this above is what i replied to...get it now?

He got it wrong, i pointed it out ,,...simples.....and you jumped in boots and all and..''VOILA" ... egg on face, nah daeng, etc ,etc..

Nuff said

All this nonsense for a bloody typo.

[salapau]

'The 17-year-old Mr Patiphan, who was not wearing a helmet' - and had he been drinking too? Bloody idiot, he must know the score riding a bike in Phuket without a helmet ...

'Nuff said, but the foreigner gets the blame ...

was he overtaking a left turning vehicle on the left which seems to be a standard practice in Thailand. I have lost count of the close calls I have had when making a left hand turn even after giving plenty of signals to indicate my intention they still come down on your left. My wife tells me if you hit a bike with your car then you are in the wrong.

Good response you and me both have experienced these idiots who value two seconds progress over their lives. No helmet says it all as well.

[andreandre]

Yes,of course you may suggest whatever you like sir, but the problem is not with my eyes,....you should well remember the very appropriate for you old adage along the lines of..;

Make sure brain is engaged before putting mouth in gear or in new age..posting on forums,before brain is engaged,

I know full well what was said in the article..10 points to you for getting that part right..i agree 100% and yes , i do understand that you dont charge dead people...brilliant ,thank you!..i often wondered..NOT!

But sadly for you, in your haste to e-bash me you got it all wrong chum, you see, if you had read and observed you would have seen this from steven;#12;

"For the moment he is charged so the accident can be investigated, that is why he is charged. Nobody is blamed as of yet."

...and this above is what i replied to...get it now?

He got it wrong, i pointed it out ,,...simples.....and you jumped in boots and all and..''VOILA" ... egg on face, nah daeng, etc ,etc..

Nuff said

All this nonsense for a bloody typo.

Yes,so true.... and i have to admit that your contribution to this thread is truely inspirational and informative...

[peecee]

'The 17-year-old Mr Patiphan, who was not wearing a helmet' - and had he been drinking too? Bloody idiot, he must know the score riding a bike in Phuket without a helmet ...

'Nuff said, but the foreigner gets the blame ...

Maybe, but we don't know that yet.

For the moment he is charged so the accident can be investigated, that is why he is charged. Nobody is blamed as of yet.

Nuff said, the foreigner feels disgruntled without any facts.

He is dead so how did they charge him?

[stevenl]

 

'The 17-year-old Mr Patiphan, who was not wearing a helmet'  - and had he been drinking too?  Bloody idiot, he must know the score riding a bike in Phuket without a helmet  ...

 

'Nuff said, but the foreigner gets the blame ...

Maybe, but we don't know that yet.

 

For the moment he is charged so the accident can be investigated, that is why he is charged. Nobody is blamed as of yet.

 

Nuff said, the foreigner feels disgruntled without any facts.

 

 

 

He is dead so how did they charge him?

 

If you would have read the thread you would have seen the 'he' in my post was meant to be 'she'.

Sent from my D90W using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[peecee]

'The 17-year-old Mr Patiphan, who was not wearing a helmet' - and had he been drinking too? Bloody idiot, he must know the score riding a bike in Phuket without a helmet ...

'Nuff said, but the foreigner gets the blame ...

Maybe, but we don't know that yet.

For the moment he is charged so the accident can be investigated, that is why he is charged. Nobody is blamed as of yet.

Nuff said, the foreigner feels disgruntled without any facts.

He is dead so how did they charge him?

If you would have read the thread you would have seen the 'he' in my post was meant to be 'she'.

Sent from my D90W using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Ha, you reread it. No gender problem then!

[simon43]

It's interesting to hear the Thai side of this sad incident.

The teenager in question went to the same school as my step-daughter. She tells me that the rumour going round is that Faye was drunk and that she jumped the red light (not sure what red light, since there are none in her direction of travel).

I didn't even bother asking why the boy had no crash helmet etc. No point at all because the relevance would not be understood....

Simon

[EBlair48]

The article should note that charging the driver with reckless driving causing death in an accident like this is standard procedure until an investigation can be completed. It's one of the reasons why people flee accident scenes here.

But the drivers nearly always turn themselves in or are tracked down, so can you further explain your reasoning that this is why people flee scenes here, exspecially if it is just standard procedure until an investigation?

They are drunk, they are stoned , they fear retaliation from a mob , they are wrong , or they are right.

Wonder if there isn't a bit of sexism on part of police in this immediate charging. Witnesses according to Phuket News have the boy in the wrong as passing up on her left . PW has her forcing him off the road. PG is mum on witnesses

[stevenl]

 

The article should note that charging the driver with reckless driving causing death in an accident like this is standard procedure until an investigation can be completed. It's one of the reasons why people flee accident scenes here.

 

But the drivers nearly always turn themselves in or are tracked down, so can you further explain your reasoning that this is why people flee scenes here, exspecially if it is just standard procedure until an investigation?

 

 

 They are drunk,  they are stoned , they fear retaliation from a mob , they are wrong , or they are right. 

 

 Wonder if there isn't a bit of sexism on part of police in this  immediate  charging.  Witnesses according to Phuket News have the boy in the wrong as  passing up on her left . PW has her forcing him off the road. PG is mum on witnesses

In thailand the initial charging means there can be an investigation. If possible he would have been charged as well, it is just an invesstigation tool.

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