Chamlong, Sondhi urge Thais to reject ICJ verdict

[chrisrazz]

The two biggest fools in the fools paradise.

And once they have steered the not so supertanker onto the rocks, they'll blame the map and the foreigners who drew it.

[silent]

Very interesting result searching the word that comes to mind

"People suffering from this complex often feel a deep motivation to prove themselves as superior to others"

"In the fields of psychology and psychoanalysis, an inferiority complex is a feeling that one is inferior to others in some way. It is often unconscious, and is thought to drive afflicted individuals to overcompensate, resulting either in spectacular achievement or extreme antisocial behaviour".

"Sociologists have proposed that an inferiority complex can also exist at a wider level, affecting entire cultures. This theory, which is controversial, is known as cultural cringe".

"Unlike a normal feeling of inferiority, which can act as an incentive for achievement, an inferiority complex is an advanced state of discouragement, often resulting in a retreat from difficulties".

"A superiority complex is an exaggerated feeling of being superior to others. It is a psychological defense mechanism in which feelings of superiority counter or conceal feelings of inferiority".

[Lupatria]

I perceive it a little arrogant to believe just because laws and democracy are only subject to interpretation and money over here, that an international court has a similar opinion. If an international court would adopt the Thai jurisdiction- it would be dispensable.

[The Usual Suspect]

Better than a bed time story. I think I'll take a nap.

[DocN]

Okay...since some in Thailand don't want to be part of the international community and play along with international rules...just cancel the 2 upcoming Worldcup - Qualifiers and also ban Thailand from taking part in the Olympics...

[Sheryl]

"planned rally by the People's Army to Overthrow the Thaksin Regime that would be held to protest against the ICJ ruling, no matter which way it went."

I think that makes quite clear the true intentions and motivation here. It has nothing to do with the content of the verdict, which in fact was well reasoned and fair, and certainly does not show any partiality to either side. Apparently had the court come down 100% on Thailand's side, there would still be protests by this group.

[tingtongteesood]

Someone should take them behind the barn and put them out of their misery. The court has ruled. You can appeal it yet again through the proper channels if you so wish, but it is a waste of time. This crap has dragged on for over 50 years. Nobody cares. Let it go !! It is plain for all to see it is a Cambodian style temple. Let them have it and go on with what little is left of your pathetic lives.....

[monkeycountry]

Okay...since some in Thailand don't want to be part of the international community and play along with international rules...just cancel the 2 upcoming Worldcup - Qualifiers and also ban Thailand from taking part in the Olympics...

I just do not think most Thais understand the international community. They think they can choose which issues the ICJ can and cannot rule on.

Thailand at some point decided, on it's own, to join the UN/WTO as being a member has a number of benefits to member countries. However, when joining one also automatically joins the ICJ, and therefore accept that other member states can sue one through the ICJ, as Cambodia has done.

Thailand can at any point renounce it's membership of the UN/WTO and thereby also renounce it's membership of the ICJ. Thailand cannot however just renounce it's membership of the ICJ, but continue to be a member of the UN/WTO.

Thais in general, not just the government (both sides), need to learn that being a member of pretty much anything comes with both benefits and responsibilities.

[Sheryl]

Can we please refrain from bashing all Thais or Thailand in the abstract? These two people do not represent the country.

Thailand is hardly the only country to have an extremist political faction that engages in irresponsible, self-serving behavior and tries to stir things up. Got some of that in my homeland too, alas.

[monkeycountry]

Can we please refrain from bashing all Thais or Thailand in the abstract? These two people do not represent the country.

Thailand is hardly the only country to have an extremist political faction that engages in irresponsible, self-serving behavior and tries to stir things up. Got some of that in my homeland too, alas.

I do not know if you are referring to my comment just above yours. If you are, I think it is perfectly reasonable to use phrases such as "most Thais" or "Thais in general" when referring to certain issues where it is actually correct for a very large percentage if not the majority of Thais.

As an example, I am quite sure a poll would confirm that "most Thais" cannot tell you what the letters UN or WTO stand for, and they have no idea what those two organisations do. Hence there is nothing wrong with stating this in a comment.

Another example is stating that "Thais in general" have a very hard time accepting responsibility. Even many Thais will confirm this if you ask them, and I think we have all experienced this multiple times in everyday life. So again, I see nothing wrong with stating this.

That similar problems may or may not exist in other countries is really irrelevant. We are discussing Thai matters on a Thai forum. What happens in Britain, the US or Somalia is not important in this context, and should not be used an an excuse for anything that happens in Thailand.

[OZEMADE]

Chamlong, Sondhi urge Thais to reject ICJ verdict. These two fools want the People of Thailand to march through the streets in protest over the amnesty bill, to the point where there could be violence and even more deaths. These same two men now want the Thai people not to accept the IJC verdict on granting the Temple to Cambodia and no doubt will want the military to go on alert at the temple seeing as they are already there.

The only reason these two men do not accept the verdict of the IJC is when they were in power, they thought they had the temple in the bag and the court would award Thailand all in the final verdict. What happened, LOSS of FACE, so they want to stir the pot again and have more Thais and Cambodians killed over this temple. No wonder 12 or more Embassy's have issued Travel warnings for Thailand with all the trouble going on.

About time the Thai people and the Democrat Party woke up to these two dills and got rid of them.

[Sheryl]

Can we please refrain from bashing all Thais or Thailand in the abstract? These two people do not represent the country.

Thailand is hardly the only country to have an extremist political faction that engages in irresponsible, self-serving behavior and tries to stir things up. Got some of that in my homeland too, alas.

I do not know if you are referring to my comment just above yours. If you are,...

No, I was not, you and I posted more or less simultaneously. I was referring to all the posts that treat Chamong/Sondhi's stance as if it were the position of Thailand as a whole or Thai people as a whole.

[monkeycountry]

Can we please refrain from bashing all Thais or Thailand in the abstract? These two people do not represent the country.

Thailand is hardly the only country to have an extremist political faction that engages in irresponsible, self-serving behavior and tries to stir things up. Got some of that in my homeland too, alas.

I do not know if you are referring to my comment just above yours. If you are,...

No, I was not, you and I posted more or less simultaneously. I was referring to all the posts that treat Chamong/Sondhi's stance as if it were the position of Thailand as a whole or Thai people as a whole.

I did not see the posting time, but you are right, sorry.

[JoeThePoster]

I'm confused now. Who's the Thai mahatma - Chamlong, Sondhi or Suthep?

[Arkady]

Opposing the amnesty bill is a noble cause but this is pure garbage. The historical injustices are very real but it is far too late to do anything about that now.

Be practical. Reopen the border and make money from charging foreigners ten times as much as Thais to cross the border and visit the temple just like before and get the scruffy market going again.

[Chrisswe]

How much does this unvissable people pay this two terrorist leaders !!??

[Arkady]

Samuel Johnson summed up these two: "Nationalism is the last resort of a scoundrel".

[kimamey]

"Thailand should not be run by politicians for a few years".

There you have it. Unelected self appointed bastions of dictatorship who know what's best and want to impose their own twisted views. Frightening that these two can have such support for an extremist agenda that would deny the vast majority of Thais any voice at all.

Yingluck was never a politician so I'm wondering what they're complaining about.

I'd love to see what they'd say if it was announced that the reporting was wrong and in fact the land belongs to Thailand. I'm sure they would be right behind that.

[Spare]

One can reject the verdict, it the verdict is not correct.

This verdict is not correct, because according to the watershed, the land and temple is in Thailand.

[Lakegeneve]

i dont seem to understand why france having colonized cambodia and participated in mapping of the region, were the ones that read the verdict.

doesnt seem very unbiased to me.

Ignorance and the absence of logic seems to know no bounds! (I'm really trying to be diplomatic here as this is really one of the most silliest posts on this issue )

France read the decision??? The President of France or a French Ambassador read the decision did they?

Seriously, you do understand that it is the ICJ. Essentially the world's court composed of independent judges for fixed, rotating terms. NOT composed of countries. The relevance of a judges nationality is nil.

[kimamey]

So you don't like them? I don't get it. Most of the posters here want to overthrow an elected government but these guys are going too far, right?

The current protests are generally about the amnesty, and having the government dissolve parliament so that the amnesty bills will be completely dead.

These two want to reject an international courts ruling over a couple of square kms of land, and to remove politicians from government for a couple of years.

I think the two issues are a little bit different myself.

The anti amnesty protests are about living by the law and not trying to avoid it. This is about not abiding by international law mainly because it hasn't gone your way. Totally different.

The protesters that want to get rid of the government are another thing. Voicing your opinion about the government is OK and the strength of feeling may cause the government to call elections. Trying to just overthrow the government is not so good and I think that the genuine political parties and their supporters should stay well away from that plan.

It may well be that keeping the present government might not be so bad. It's had a bit of a reality check and if the possibility of Thaksin returning can be made clear then possibly they may get on with running the country knowing their majority doesn't allow them to do just as they wish.

The Democrats should plan in case the government does fail and be ready to change to represent all the Thai people and not just their elite supporters. They certainly don't want to be associated with these two trouble makers.

[Lakegeneve]

One can reject the verdict, it the verdict is not correct.

This verdict is not correct, because according to the watershed, the land and temple is in Thailand.

May I humbly suggest that you not remain living in your alternate universe asserting a view that ignores international law and reality.

Better still, perhaps jump into a time machine and advance your view back in the period between 1907 and 1932. That is when it may have been of some use. Perhaps while at it, you can rewrite the rest of history so that we can avoid a couple of world wars.

For Thailand, Cambodia and the rest of the world will just move on and continue implementation of international law as determined over 50 years ago. That is the reality of history, you can try to rewrite all you what but what has happened has happened. You've had over 50 years, it might be time to accept it.....

Edited November 12, 2013 by Lakegeneve

[Lakegeneve]

Samuel Johnson summed up these two: "Nationalism is the last resort of a scoundrel".

Indeed, well worth remembering that quote.

I used to have a lot of respect for Chamlong. He of course had a most prominent role in the 92 uprising, was good BMA Gov and has some very solid history in his political activism.

However, once he started taking a silly nationalistic stance on this issue back in 08/09 he lost much of my respect.

Strategically and tactically, in the current climate and momentum of the campaign against the amnesty bill I think that it is a severe mistake to conflate and start ramble rousing about the ICJ decision. There is more scope to undermine the amnesty campaign by mixing messages and conflating issues which are not at all related. Silliness all round on that front. (However, obviously they both see merit in pushing hard on this)

[GentlemanJim]

The Dems need to disassociate themselves with these two opportunists. They are dangerous. Thailand needs to accept move on and focus all energy on getting rid of this Government for the right reasons, gross ineptitude and corruption and those are reasons good enough. We are a gnats whisker from civil war we really dont want a war with Cambodia!

[whybother]

One can reject the verdict, it the verdict is not correct.

This verdict is not correct, because according to the watershed, the land and temple is in Thailand.

You can appeal the verdict if you think it is not correct. Thailand could have dealt with this in 1908 or in 1962. They didn't. They now have to live with it.

[Lakegeneve]

One can reject the verdict, it the verdict is not correct.

This verdict is not correct, because according to the watershed, the land and temple is in Thailand.

You can appeal the verdict if you think it is not correct. Thailand could have dealt with this in 1908 or in 1962. They didn't. They now have to live with it.

Actually he can't - leaving aside a merits test which would patently fail.

Firstly, their is no appellant court for the ICJ. The courts decisions are final.

Secondly, he is not a state and thus cannot be a member of the ICJ. Only member states of the ICJ can bring a case or an issue for adjudication before it.

[bigbamboo]

Samuel Johnson summed up these two: "Nationalism is the last resort of a scoundrel".

I thought Dubai was the last resort of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson said Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

[Thai at Heart]

Instead of wasting their time flogging this dead horse , they should be focusing on removing the Thaksin clan from ruling Thailand. This is becoming like Nero fiddling, while Rome burned. In the past this 1.8 square mile of land was used by the yellow shirts to whip up nationalistic sentiment. Now that is not no longer needed, as the Thai people have finally woken up, and are attempting to rid themselves of the cancer that is the Thaksin clan. So Chamlong and Sondhi should join their fellow Thais and focus on what is really important.

Regarding this ruling, Thailand has lost every single time in court on this issue. Not sure what they expected

this time around. So clearly they are not going to win in that arena. So if Thailand wants that little patch of land so bad, time to go to war and just take it......

This is the best post for ages. The problem with campaigning on an anti-Shinawatra view, is that it isn't enough because comes down to he said, she said.

What they should do is go for "Anti-Corruption", but then I fear they wouldn't have anyone clean enough to get up on stage to make a speech.

[mrtoad]

Samuel Johnson summed up these two: "Nationalism is the last resort of a scoundrel".

I thought Dubai was the last resort of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson said Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

I wish I had some likes left, but they've all gone

[Mister Fixit]

I don't see it as the same logic.

Logic? Here? Get real, mate!