Scotland to become independent in March 2016 if referendum passes

[StreetCowboy]

I just read this quote from an SNP pro-independence propaganda site "a jobs boom with thousands of new government jobs"... I wasn't sure if I was not just being thrawn opposing independence but now I feel confident that it would be a disaster, It's not independence I fear, it's self-rule.

SC

[phuketjock]

I just read this quote from an SNP pro-independence propaganda site "a jobs boom with thousands of new government jobs"... I wasn't sure if I was not just being thrawn opposing independence but now I feel confident that it would be a disaster, It's not independence I fear, it's self-rule.

SC

Why?

If you think it is " pro-independence propaganda " why would you even think about baseing any kind of decision on

such a thing. I think you and too many Scots lack the necessary courage and confidence for independence or self

rule.

Best we hand back our country to London eh?? , then we can go back to begging for scraps from our English rulers.

Grow a backbone Man.

[7by7]

So Salmond intends to increase government expenditure by increasing welfare, by providing free pre school child care for all, by providing thousands of new government jobs etc..

At the same time unemployment is going to go up due closing the nuclear submarine bases and the UK government pulling out of Scotland to relocate what are currently Scottish jobs to parts of the remaining UK.

At the same time he promises tax cuts!

Labour tried increasing expenditure and cutting taxes, and all of us in whatever part of the UK we live in are suffering because of it; apart from Blair, Brown and their cronies.

Looking at the SNP manifesto white paper it is obvious what Salmond's only concern is. He is trying to bribe the Scottish people into voting yes and then voting for his party to form the first government.

Simply so he can go down in history as the first leader of an independent Scotland.

The fact that if the Scottish people are foolish enough to fall for his con trick means the country will be suffering the financial effects for decades afterwards is of no concern to him; he'll be long retired by then.

Unfortunately for him, and fortunately for Scotland, the majority of Scots are far to canny to fall for it.

[phuketjock]

So Salmond intends to increase government expenditure by increasing welfare, by providing free pre school child care for all, by providing thousands of new government jobs etc..

At the same time unemployment is going to go up due closing the nuclear submarine bases and the UK government pulling out of Scotland to relocate what are currently Scottish jobs to parts of the remaining UK.

At the same time he promises tax cuts!

Labour tried increasing expenditure and cutting taxes, and all of us in whatever part of the UK we live in are suffering because of it; apart from Blair, Brown and their cronies.

Looking at the SNP manifesto white paper it is obvious what Salmond's only concern is. He is trying to bribe the Scottish people into voting yes and then voting for his party to form the first government.

Simply so he can go down in history as the first leader of an independent Scotland.

The fact that if the Scottish people are foolish enough to fall for his con trick means the country will be suffering the financial effects for decades afterwards is of no concern to him; he'll be long retired by then.

Unfortunately for him, and fortunately for Scotland, the majority of Scots are far to canny to fall for it.

So we should be foolish enough to fall for Westministers con tricks and go back to suffering the financial effects of an English

government as we did for centuries, not decades, before we had a Scottish Parliament?? I don't think so, the majority of Scots

are far too canny to fall for that!!! Dream on 7.

Edited November 28, 2013 by phuketjock

[nontabury]

So Salmond intends to increase government expenditure by increasing welfare, by providing free pre school child care for all, by providing thousands of new government jobs etc..

At the same time unemployment is going to go up due closing the nuclear submarine bases and the UK government pulling out of Scotland to relocate what are currently Scottish jobs to parts of the remaining UK.

At the same time he promises tax cuts!

Labour tried increasing expenditure and cutting taxes, and all of us in whatever part of the UK we live in are suffering because of it; apart from Blair, Brown and their cronies.

Looking at the SNP manifesto white paper it is obvious what Salmond's only concern is. He is trying to bribe the Scottish people into voting yes and then voting for his party to form the first government.

Simply so he can go down in history as the first leader of an independent Scotland.

The fact that if the Scottish people are foolish enough to fall for his con trick means the country will be suffering the financial effects for decades afterwards is of no concern to him; he'll be long retired by then.

Unfortunately for him, and fortunately for Scotland, the majority of Scots are far to canny to fall for it.

So we should be foolish enough to fall for Westministers con tricks and go back to suffering the financial effects of an English

government as we did for centuries, not decades, before we had a Scottish Parliament?? I don't think so, the majority of Scots

are far too canny to fall for that!!! Dream on 7.

The effects of an English government, I think you've got that completely wrong, the whole of the UK is now suffering due to the effects of the Scotish lead Labour Party, mainly Blair and Brown, it's not the Scottish who want separation from England, it's the English who want separation from Scotland. Unfortunately the English have not been allowed to vote on this issue.

[StreetCowboy]

So Salmond intends to increase government expenditure by increasing welfare, by providing free pre school child care for all, by providing thousands of new government jobs etc..

At the same time unemployment is going to go up due closing the nuclear submarine bases and the UK government pulling out of Scotland to relocate what are currently Scottish jobs to parts of the remaining UK.

At the same time he promises tax cuts!

Labour tried increasing expenditure and cutting taxes, and all of us in whatever part of the UK we live in are suffering because of it; apart from Blair, Brown and their cronies.

Looking at the SNP manifesto white paper it is obvious what Salmond's only concern is. He is trying to bribe the Scottish people into voting yes and then voting for his party to form the first government.

Simply so he can go down in history as the first leader of an independent Scotland.

The fact that if the Scottish people are foolish enough to fall for his con trick means the country will be suffering the financial effects for decades afterwards is of no concern to him; he'll be long retired by then.

Unfortunately for him, and fortunately for Scotland, the majority of Scots are far to canny to fall for it.

So we should be foolish enough to fall for Westministers con tricks and go back to suffering the financial effects of an English

government as we did for centuries, not decades, before we had a Scottish Parliament?? I don't think so, the majority of Scots

are far too canny to fall for that!!! Dream on 7.

The effects of an English government, I think you've got that completely wrong, the whole of the UK is now suffering due to the effects of the Scotish lead Labour Party, mainly Blair and Brown, it's not the Scottish who want separation from England, it's the English who want separation from Scotland. Unfortunately the English have not been allowed to vote on this issue.

I've never heard any English person say they wanted to withdraw from the UK, or that they wanted to dissolve the UK. I think it would be a long hard struggle to get such a manifesto onto the political agenda, but you might think the effort was justified.

SC

[nontabury]

So Salmond intends to increase government expenditure by increasing welfare, by providing free pre school child care for all, by providing thousands of new government jobs etc..

At the same time unemployment is going to go up due closing the nuclear submarine bases and the UK government pulling out of Scotland to relocate what are currently Scottish jobs to parts of the remaining UK.

At the same time he promises tax cuts!

Labour tried increasing expenditure and cutting taxes, and all of us in whatever part of the UK we live in are suffering because of it; apart from Blair, Brown and their cronies.

Looking at the SNP manifesto white paper it is obvious what Salmond's only concern is. He is trying to bribe the Scottish people into voting yes and then voting for his party to form the first government.

Simply so he can go down in history as the first leader of an independent Scotland.

The fact that if the Scottish people are foolish enough to fall for his con trick means the country will be suffering the financial effects for decades afterwards is of no concern to him; he'll be long retired by then.

Unfortunately for him, and fortunately for Scotland, the majority of Scots are far to canny to fall for it.

So we should be foolish enough to fall for Westministers con tricks and go back to suffering the financial effects of an English

government as we did for centuries, not decades, before we had a Scottish Parliament?? I don't think so, the majority of Scots

are far too canny to fall for that!!! Dream on 7.

The effects of an English government, I think you've got that completely wrong, the whole of the UK is now suffering due to the effects of the Scotish lead Labour Party, mainly Blair and Brown, it's not the Scottish who want separation from England, it's the English who want separation from Scotland. Unfortunately the English have not been allowed to vote on this issue.

I've never heard any English person say they wanted to withdraw from the UK, or that they wanted to dissolve the UK. I think it would be a long hard struggle to get such a manifesto onto the political agenda, but you might think the effort was justified.

SC

It's not a very important issue with the English, so its not discussed at length as it is in Scotland, however when opinion polls have been conducted in England and Scotland, unsurprisingly a larger percentage of the English want separation than do the Scott's. Perhaps the Scott's should ask themselves why. As for getting this issue onto the political agenda, yes, I agree it would be very difficult, the same as for the British people being allowed to have a referendum on membership of the EEC.

[StreetCowboy]

Apart from a couple of light-hearted posters on this forum, I've never heard of any evidence to support your claim. Perhaps English people are less prone to action than Scots, and more prone to discontented muttonous grumbling.

You may recall there was a referendum on EEC membership, and the decision was 'Yes'.

Perhaps we should also have regular referenda on whether to bring back capital punishment, drive on the right, revoke decimalisation and the future of Gibraltar

SC

[7by7]

You may recall there was a referendum on EEC membership, and the decision was 'Yes'.

I voted 'Yes' in that referendum; mainly because we were told that the EEC was purely a free trade area and British membership would have absolutely no effect on British sovereignty at all.

The true consequences of membership were hidden from us.

Just as Salmond is attempting to hide the true consequences of Scottish independence from the Scottish people now.

[7by7]

The fact that if the Scottish people are foolish enough to fall for his (Salmond's) con trick means the country will be suffering the financial effects for decades afterwards is of no concern to him; he'll be long retired by then.

Unfortunately for him, and fortunately for Scotland, the majority of Scots are far to canny to fall for it.

So we should be foolish enough to fall for Westministers con tricks and go back to suffering the financial effects of an English

government as we did for centuries, not decades, before we had a Scottish Parliament?? I don't think so, the majority of Scots

are far too canny to fall for that!!! Dream on 7.

What financial effects would those be, then?

Scotland has suffered during periods of financial depression; but other parts of the UK suffered as much or worse during those times.

Here's an example of how much Salmond and his cronies actually care about the Scottish people.

One of their promises should they form the first government of an independent Scotland is to introduce free child care for all pre school children.

Nicola Sturgeon has been trumpeting this as a major benefit of Scottish independence; saying it will free women to return to the workplace and create thousands of jobs in childcare.

Guess what; the Scottish parliament already has the power to do this!

So, after 6 years in power, why has the SNP not yet done so?

When asked this question Sturgeon's reply was simple; the SNP did not want these women returning to work before independence as that would mean they'd be paying tax to Westminster!

The SNP care more about spiting Westminster than they do about Scottish mothers.

Edited November 29, 2013 by 7by7

[nontabury]

Apart from a couple of light-hearted posters on this forum, I've never heard of any evidence to support your claim. Perhaps English people are less prone to action than Scots, and more prone to discontented muttonous grumbling.

You may recall there was a referendum on EEC membership, and the decision was 'Yes'.

Perhaps we should also have regular referenda on whether to bring back capital punishment, drive on the right, revoke decimalisation and the future of Gibraltar

SC

There have been numerous opinion polls conducted in England , the result showing a large percentage of those surveyed declaring their wish to be shut of what they considered to be the whinging Scots.

As per the yes decision of the 1975 EEC referendum, many people now considered that the British people where plainly mislead, and it certainly was not explained to them what the long time consequences of our membership would entail. For this we have to thank the Labour government of Harold Wilson, supported by the leader of the Conservatives Margaret Thatcher and of course Edwina Heath.

[Puccini]

How strong would an independent Scotland's defence capability be?

Portsmouth-based warship sent to shadow Russian ship off Scotland

Published on the 05 January 2004 11:10

THE warship that was sent to shadow a Russian off the coast of Scotland after it sailed near the Moray Firth has been named as HMS Defender.

As reported by The News, HMS Defender sailed from the city in December.

Today a national newspaper reports the missile-carrying Russian warship came within 30 miles of the coast before Christmas.

It said Portsmouth-based HMS Defender was the only ship available to respond due to Ministry of Defence cutbacks and had a tense stand-off with the Russian ship.

Read more: http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defence/portsmouth-based-warship-sent-to-shadow-russian-ship-off-scotland-1-5787359

-- Portsmouth News 2014-01-05

[Somtamnication]

They would ask the English to help fight the newly minted Soviet Union, circa 2014.

[Basil B]

Maybe a petition to No 10, as the Scots are having their referendum on staying in the union, if the Scots were to vote NO to Independence can we English, Welsh and those from Northern Ireland have a referendum to decide whether they can stay in the Union?

[7by7]

More problems for the Yes campaign.

Scottish independence: Barroso says joining EU would be 'difficult'

Of course, the Yes campaign deny that there will be any problems, Scotland's finance minister, John Swinney, saying in the same programme

"I think President Barroso's remarks are pretty preposterous.

"He's set out his position linking and comparing Scotland to the situation in Kosovo.

"Scotland has been a member of the EU for 40 years - we're already part of the European Union."

But, of course, Scotland is no more an EU member than England, Wales or Northern Ireland are. It is the UK that is a member, and if Scotland is no longer part of the UK then it cannot use the UK's membership anymore and will have to apply to become a member in it's own right.

We also have the arrogant stance from the SNP that post independence Scotland will continue to use Sterling.

Why? If Scotland wants independence from the UK, it should be full independence, not a partial one where they pick and choose which bits of the union they want to retain and abandon the rest.

If an independent Scotland wants currency union with the UK, that needs to be negotiated; they cannot demand it or assume it as a given.

Scottish independence: Currency debate explained

[Chicog]

One good thing is that it should end forever the dreams of Rangers and Celtic ever tainting the Football League.

[bkkgooner]

Can we English people have a referendum to vote on if we want Scotland to remain in the United Kingdom? It seems to be all one way traffic. All these people getting referendums. English people never get referendums for anything.

You got to colonize everyone though

[oldsailor35]

Heard a European professor today say that Scotland would have to apply to join the EU if they break away, as it is the UK that holds the membership, and Scotland would then not be entitled to just walk in, and that the EU are not at all keen to accept them. So how would this effect their economy if they are refused entry.

[rajyindee]

, as it is the UK that holds the membership, and Scotland would then not be entitled to just walk in, and that the EU are not at all keen to accept them. So how would this effect their economy if they are refused entry.

If the Scots vote Yes, surely the "United Kingdom" would cease to be ... and the English/Welsh/Northern Irish partnership would have to find another name. Is there a precedent to indicate they wouldn't also have to apply for EU membership as a "new" country?

[7by7]

There is a precedent; but not in the way you mean.

When what is now the Republic of Ireland became independent and left the UK, the UK continued to exist.

Prior to Irish independence it was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland; afterwards it became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

As Great Britain is a geographical term, not a political one, and includes Scotland there may have to be a slight name change again, but the political entity of the UK will still exist.

[rajyindee]

There is a precedent; but not in the way you mean. When what is now the Republic of Ireland became independent and left the UK, the UK continued to exist.

I think Ireland gained independence before the EU came into being, not really a precedent. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland ceased to exist.

Prior to Irish independence it was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland; afterwards it became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

As Great Britain is a geographical term, not a political one, and includes Scotland there may have to be a slight name change again, but the political entity of the UK will still exist.

That's an assumption. As you say, there is no precedent. The "Great Britain" part of the name was formed by the Acts of Union in 1707. Will the remainder of the UK be called something like the United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland?

Edited February 17, 2014 by rajyindee

[Richard W]

You may recall there was a referendum on EEC membership, and the decision was 'Yes'.

I voted 'Yes' in that referendum; mainly because we were told that the EEC was purely a free trade area and British membership would have absolutely no effect on British sovereignty at all.

The true consequences of membership were hidden from us.

You should have listened to Enoch Powell. He had a clear vision of the political aspirations.

If you want out of the EU, you should be campaigning for English independence now that we've been assured that secession from the UK is a valid way out. I still think its cruel to separate Northern Ireland and Scotland, and I have no emotional attachment to Berwick.

[Basil B]

As the population of Scotland is less than 10% of the UK I so without Scotland it will very much the same, governed and administered from London.

As for Scotland...

They have a lot of decisions to make...

What Currency to use, more to the point which currency can they use?

To join the EU, more to the point will they be allowed in?

Who's head on the bank notes, The Queen or Salmond's, I.E. will Liz remain head of state or Salmond become President for life?

Will they apply to join the Commonwealth?

One thing for sure is that without Scotland being in the EU there will be no open boarder between England and Scotland.

[Waterloo]

As long as Billy Connolly becomes President its a good idea .

In this mornings Metro.

Comedian Billy Connolly is refusing to vote in the Scottish independence referendum, which he described as a "morass that I care not to dip my toe into".

The 71-year-old Glaswegian said:"I think the Scots will come to a good conclusion in the referendum, they'll get what they deserve".

[a99az]

I love my country and as an Englishman living in Great Britain and being part of Scotland, England, Wales, and Northern Ireland makes me proud.

Together we are a great country with great people with an even greater history. I truly hope we can nurture our cultural differences and work together for the common good.

[7by7]

There is a precedent; but not in the way you mean. When what is now the Republic of Ireland became independent and left the UK, the UK continued to exist.

I think Ireland gained independence before the EU came into being, not really a precedent. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland ceased to exist.

Prior to Irish independence it was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland; afterwards it became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

As Great Britain is a geographical term, not a political one, and includes Scotland there may have to be a slight name change again, but the political entity of the UK will still exist.

That's an assumption. As you say, there is no precedent. The "Great Britain" part of the name was formed by the Acts of Union in 1707. Will the remainder of the UK be called something like the United Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland?

As I said, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland did not cease to exist, it became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

True, the EU did not exist at that time, but the League of Nations did.

After Irish independence the UK remained a member of the League of Nations and the Irish Free State (later the Republic of Ireland) had to apply for membership, which was granted.

That is a precedent.

The Act of Union, 1707, formed the political entity of the Kingdom of Great Britain.

The Act of Union, 1800, added Ireland to the Union to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

Great Britain and Ireland are the geographical names for the two largest islands of the British archipelago.

All of which is somewhat moot.

No one from the EU has made the slightest suggestion that if Scotland leaves the UK that the membership of the remainder of the UK, whatever it's called, is in any doubt.

It is the new country, an independent Scotland, which will have to apply for membership.

Edited February 18, 2014 by 7by7

[Chicog]

From my perception, the clear majority of Scots would rather stay in the Union. The trouble is that if they all think that, they may not bother turning up to vote.

The Secessionists are quite passionate, so they will definitely turn out.

Could be interesting.

[Basil B]

From my perception, the clear majority of Scots would rather stay in the Union. The trouble is that if they all think that, they may not bother turning up to vote.

The Secessionists are quite passionate, so they will definitely turn out.

Could be interesting.

That will probably be the same with the UK referendum on the EU.

[7by7]

As long as Billy Connolly becomes President its a good idea .

In this mornings Metro.

Comedian Billy Connolly is refusing to vote in the Scottish independence referendum, which he described as a "morass that I care not to dip my toe into".

The 71-year-old Glaswegian said:"I think the Scots will come to a good conclusion in the referendum, they'll get what they deserve".

Ah yes, Billy Connolly;

Connolly booed over hostage joke

The comic got a cool reception after using material about the hostage at the Carling Apollo, Hammersmith. Connolly also made disparaging remarks about Mr Bigley's Thai wife.

[Waterloo]

From my perception, the clear majority of Scots would rather stay in the Union. The trouble is that if they all think that, they may not bother turning up to vote.

The Secessionists are quite passionate, so they will definitely turn out.

Could be interesting.

inclined to agree

Same scenario when they have votes in the states on gun control.