A.B.S.

[Ace of Pop]

 On a Dry Road does A.B.S  extend the breaking distance over an identical Car without it.?.

[stevenl]

Depends on who is driving the car.

 

For many drivers it will decrease the braking distance, for the exceptions that can brake without ABS exactly to the anti blocking point it will decrease the distance.

[tom21]

with ABS you can steer the car when braking heavy. that is all you that matters

[cocoy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnjszE3NS9E

[bobfish]

Depends on who is driving the car.

 

For many drivers it will decrease the braking distance, for the exceptions that can brake without ABS exactly to the anti blocking point it will decrease the distance.

 

Agreed.

 

There will be very few exceptions in the case of an adrenaline charged panic stop! The main point is consistency and control [steering].

[b19bry]

 

Depends on who is driving the car.

 

For many drivers it will decrease the braking distance, for the exceptions that can brake without ABS exactly to the anti blocking point it will decrease the distance.

 

Agreed.

 

There will be very few exceptions in the case of an adrenaline charged panic stop! The main point is consistency and control [steering].

 

 

Even the best drivers in the world can easily lock their brakes under extreme braking, you just need to watch any F1 race to see that.

As tom21 says, once you've 'locked up' you lose steering ability, you also lose lots of stopping power depending on the surface.

Without ABS 'cadence braking' is the only way out of this.

ABS in most cases will improve heavy braking ability unless you're name is Vettel or Alonso
 

[transam]

Depends on tyre pressures.................... ...................

[b19bry]

Depends on tyre pressures.................... ...................

 

mmm,........ so F1 teams don't have their tyre pressures set correctly ?
 

[Ace of Pop]

I was thinking, 2 Identical Trucks , side by side at say 130,both stand on the brakes,i recon the non abs would get the edge but would have flat spotted the 2 front tyres.Not sure,thats the debate intended.

[WarpSpeed]

with ABS you can steer the car when braking heavy. that is all you that matters

Yes but a skilled driver can threshold brake and steer and then lift to steer at the optimum timing if the tires loose traction by exceeding their maximum grip and provide a quick direction change if you need to take avoiding action.

[WarpSpeed]

 

Depends on tyre pressures.................... ...................

 

mmm,........ so F1 teams don't have their tyre pressures set correctly ?
 

 

Actually they're not in all cases, not all teams run the same pressures nor do they always run the same temps produced by those temps, a lot of factors go into grip levels versus tire wear it's no so black and white, that's one of several differences between the front runners and the back markers...

[WarpSpeed]

 

 

Depends on who is driving the car.

 

For many drivers it will decrease the braking distance, for the exceptions that can brake without ABS exactly to the anti blocking point it will decrease the distance.

 

Agreed.

 

There will be very few exceptions in the case of an adrenaline charged panic stop! The main point is consistency and control [steering].

 

 

Even the best drivers in the world can easily lock their brakes under extreme braking, you just need to watch any F1 race to see that.

As tom21 says, once you've 'locked up' you lose steering ability, you also lose lots of stopping power depending on the surface.

Without ABS 'cadence braking' is the only way out of this.

ABS in most cases will improve heavy braking ability unless you're name is Vettel or Alonso
 

 

No, brake feel is and proper threshold braking, also tire compound, tread pattern and many other factors have a lot to do with it as well as chassis stiffness, suspension stiffness etc., not so simplistic.

[WarpSpeed]

I was thinking, 2 Identical Trucks , side by side at say 130,both stand on the brakes,i recon the non abs would get the edge but would have flat spotted the 2 front tyres.Not sure,thats the debate intended.

Why stand on em if you don't have ABS?

[Woodsie888]

 

 

 

Depends on who is driving the car.

 

For many drivers it will decrease the braking distance, for the exceptions that can brake without ABS exactly to the anti blocking point it will decrease the distance.

 

Agreed.

 

There will be very few exceptions in the case of an adrenaline charged panic stop! The main point is consistency and control [steering].

 

 

Even the best drivers in the world can easily lock their brakes under extreme braking, you just need to watch any F1 race to see that.

As tom21 says, once you've 'locked up' you lose steering ability, you also lose lots of stopping power depending on the surface.

Without ABS 'cadence braking' is the only way out of this.

ABS in most cases will improve heavy braking ability unless you're name is Vettel or Alonso
 

 

No, brake feel is and proper threshold braking, also tire compound, tread pattern and many other factors have a lot to do with it as well as chassis stiffness, suspension stiffness etc., not so simplistic.

 

Never heard of threshold braking before. I'm going to use that term next time I'm at the pub.  

[VocalNeal]

Never heard of threshold braking before.   

That sounds like something tantric to me 

[b19bry]

 

Even the best drivers in the world can easily lock their brakes under extreme braking, you just need to watch any F1 race to see that.

As tom21 says, once you've 'locked up' you lose steering ability, you also lose lots of stopping power depending on the surface.

Without ABS 'cadence braking' is the only way out of this.

ABS in most cases will improve heavy braking ability unless you're name is Vettel or Alonso
 

 

No, brake feel is and proper threshold braking, also tire compound, tread pattern and many other factors have a lot to do with it as well as chassis stiffness, suspension stiffness etc., not so simplistic.

 

 

Actually Yes and No.

 

I'm not saying they are not factors but I'm assuming tyre compound, tread pattern, pressures suspension & chassis stiffness etc,etc would be the same for an ABS and non-ABS example.

 

I'd also agree that with a concentrated, skilled driver he'd probably have the advantage over the best setup ABS configuration. That's why compeition drivers mostly disable ABS on cars equipped with it when racing.

 

However, the average somchai in his pickup has never heard of 'threshold braking' and would have little concept of what it means or how to avoid locking his brakes.

 

So in most situations for most drivers, ABS will improve extreme braking (and car control), otherwise why would it be an option ?

 

I think I'm a pretty decent driver but I know ABS has saved me a few times especially on damp/wet/slippery surfaces. I've also noted sometimes ABS kicks in prematurely so it needs to be setup correctly.

 

The OP subsequenty posed the question if he 'stood on the brakes' which is better ? In that case ABS no question.

 

 

[Woodsie888]

 

Never heard of threshold braking before.   

That sounds like something tantric to me 

 

Or something you do with your a.se after a good curry.

[WarpSpeed]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

There will be very few exceptions in the case of an adrenaline charged panic stop! The main point is consistency and control [steering].

 

 

Even the best drivers in the world can easily lock their brakes under extreme braking, you just need to watch any F1 race to see that.

As tom21 says, once you've 'locked up' you lose steering ability, you also lose lots of stopping power depending on the surface.

Without ABS 'cadence braking' is the only way out of this.

ABS in most cases will improve heavy braking ability unless you're name is Vettel or Alonso
 

 

No, brake feel is and proper threshold braking, also tire compound, tread pattern and many other factors have a lot to do with it as well as chassis stiffness, suspension stiffness etc., not so simplistic.

 

Never heard of threshold braking before. I'm going to use that term next time I'm at the pub.  

 

Seriously???  In motorsports circles and performance driving instruction it's widely used for decades now..

[WarpSpeed]

 

 

Even the best drivers in the world can easily lock their brakes under extreme braking, you just need to watch any F1 race to see that.

As tom21 says, once you've 'locked up' you lose steering ability, you also lose lots of stopping power depending on the surface.

Without ABS 'cadence braking' is the only way out of this.

ABS in most cases will improve heavy braking ability unless you're name is Vettel or Alonso
 

 

No, brake feel is and proper threshold braking, also tire compound, tread pattern and many other factors have a lot to do with it as well as chassis stiffness, suspension stiffness etc., not so simplistic.

 

 

Actually Yes and No.

 

I'm not saying they are not factors but I'm assuming tyre compound, tread pattern, pressures suspension & chassis stiffness etc,etc would be the same for an ABS and non-ABS example.

 

I'd also agree that with a concentrated, skilled driver he'd probably have the advantage over the best setup ABS configuration. That's why compeition drivers mostly disable ABS on cars equipped with it when racing.

 

However, the average somchai in his pickup has never heard of 'threshold braking' and would have little concept of what it means or how to avoid locking his brakes.

 

So in most situations for most drivers, ABS will improve extreme braking (and car control), otherwise why would it be an option ?

 

I think I'm a pretty decent driver but I know ABS has saved me a few times especially on damp/wet/slippery surfaces. I've also noted sometimes ABS kicks in prematurely so it needs to be setup correctly.

 

The OP subsequenty posed the question if he 'stood on the brakes' which is better ? In that case ABS no question.

 

 

 

Right but the OP doesn't distinguish from Somchai nor does it refer to Thailand and you used the example of F1 as well which is also what I responded to. Actually in most racing series the ABS is considered an unfair advantage especially in the rain which is uncertain as to when it may come or not? Additionally it can also be used as a traction control device so thus most series disallow them as the bigger teams have the money to make them more effective, this is why F1 outlawed it..

[Spoonman]

I was thinking, 2 Identical Trucks , side by side at say 130,both stand on the brakes,i recon the non abs would get the edge but would have flat spotted the 2 front tyres.Not sure,thats the debate intended.

 

I reckon you will flat spot  the rears before the front due to the lack of weight over the rear axle.

[WarpSpeed]

 

I was thinking, 2 Identical Trucks , side by side at say 130,both stand on the brakes,i recon the non abs would get the edge but would have flat spotted the 2 front tyres.Not sure,thats the debate intended.

 

I reckon you will flat spot  the rears before the front due to the lack of weight over the rear axle.

 

As well as some filling loosening wheel hop most likely..

[cooked]

In Switzerland before the days of ABS we were taught to rapidly depress and release the brake pedal to prevent wheel locking. It works in snow. I wonder if this would work on a car with automatic?
On my last truck I had the ABS working three times, twice on the Expressway, avoiding a shunt, and once to avoid killing a dog. In 6 years.

[transam]

 

Depends on tyre pressures.................... ...................

 

mmm,........ so F1 teams don't have their tyre pressures set correctly ?
 

 

 

When you have been reading here for a while you will see the joke................

[WarpSpeed]

 

 

Depends on tyre pressures.................... ...................

 

mmm,........ so F1 teams don't have their tyre pressures set correctly ?
 

 

 

When you have been reading here for a while you will see the joke................

 

Oh! I forgot to mention it also varies whether it's nitrogen or air...

[b19bry]

In Switzerland before the days of ABS we were taught to rapidly depress and release the brake pedal to prevent wheel locking. It works in snow. I wonder if this would work on a car with automatic?
On my last truck I had the ABS working three times, twice on the Expressway, avoiding a shunt, and once to avoid killing a dog. In 6 years.

That's called 'cadence braking' kinda manual version of ABS and yes works with an automatic.

 

[b19bry]

 

 

 

Even the best drivers in the world can easily lock their brakes under extreme braking, you just need to watch any F1 race to see that.

As tom21 says, once you've 'locked up' you lose steering ability, you also lose lots of stopping power depending on the surface.

Without ABS 'cadence braking' is the only way out of this.

ABS in most cases will improve heavy braking ability unless you're name is Vettel or Alonso
 

 

No, brake feel is and proper threshold braking, also tire compound, tread pattern and many other factors have a lot to do with it as well as chassis stiffness, suspension stiffness etc., not so simplistic.

 

 

Actually Yes and No.

 

I'm not saying they are not factors but I'm assuming tyre compound, tread pattern, pressures suspension & chassis stiffness etc,etc would be the same for an ABS and non-ABS example.

 

I'd also agree that with a concentrated, skilled driver he'd probably have the advantage over the best setup ABS configuration. That's why compeition drivers mostly disable ABS on cars equipped with it when racing.

 

However, the average somchai in his pickup has never heard of 'threshold braking' and would have little concept of what it means or how to avoid locking his brakes.

 

So in most situations for most drivers, ABS will improve extreme braking (and car control), otherwise why would it be an option ?

 

I think I'm a pretty decent driver but I know ABS has saved me a few times especially on damp/wet/slippery surfaces. I've also noted sometimes ABS kicks in prematurely so it needs to be setup correctly.

 

The OP subsequenty posed the question if he 'stood on the brakes' which is better ? In that case ABS no question.

 

 

 

Right

 

 

Thanks Warpy, you've no idea what an endorsement from the Stig means to me............you are the new Stig right ?

 

[Ace of Pop]

O.K. Identical Trucks,same Geometry and Tires /Compound on a Dry Road , straight line from 125 to 0.. Whos the Winner.?. Il go for the non ABS........... Flat Spots expected, and rear tires adding very little to help the situation.

[Spoonman]

I reckon it will be the ABS model.

 

If your flat spotting your tyres on the non ABS you are losing grip and as such are not slowing down.

[transam]

The first car I had with ABS was a 1988 Volvo 760. The ABS feature really was a revelation for a safer ride. Previously I had three Ford Granada's, all heavy cars, drove a zillion miles in them and for sure the ABS really made a big difference in a sticky situation.

[Gsxrnz]

Depends on tyre pressures.................... ...................

 

Especially the pressure in the spare tyre.