Situation in the capital is still tense after tear gas fired at protesters

[Halion]

You would have to travel far and wide to find another country with such banal and politically loaded rhetoric omitting detail and real news information. The headline on TV gives "4 DEAD AND 57 WOUNDED" yet the article is shallow political rhetoric with no mention of details of the incidents. 4 people had died according to the article and yet no mention of the circumstances.

They may well have been in a coach crash, ferry sinking or aircraft skidding of the runway.

The news is what we say it is and we report the facts.. which is our interpretation of the data at hand based on what we want you sheep to know.

Pathetic would give them too much credibility. This is Thailand, enough said.

[plazot11]

Its not about Prime Minister Yingluck and the Shinawatra family.

The Anti Government Protesters hate democracy. Its about power and getting their hands on the 'benefits'. They miss feeding from the trough of corruption. Your leader Mr Abhisit was the appointed Prime Minister but failed miserably and was soundly beaten in a democratic election.

You are poor losers. You have an elected Government and an Opposition with all the necessary checks and balances on abuses of power.

Are the elite and so called educated Thai people so stupid they desire to see their wonderful country self destruct through greed and intolerance. Its time to stop the nonsense. "Anti Government" seems to be more like "Anti Thailand" its so very sad.

Edited December 1, 2013 by plazot11

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted. The thread is about the situation in Bangkok...now, not in years gone by.

Another reminder is to leave the Royal family out of this discussion.

Please stay on topic.

[hellodolly]

We seem to have a stalemate. The government is not rising to the bait, and the protesters demands seem unclear, or certainly something that cannot be delivered within the normal constitutional framework. Whilst I don't care for either side, the government seems to be playing this rather cleverly.

I could of course eat my words later, as the day or week progresses.

Agreed the government is not responding yet in the way the protestors hope for and they have as you say proposed an unconstitutional solution. I agree with get rid of the Government but not that way. If it is to be an unconstitutional solution I would rather see the army be the power.

It does appear that the government is weakening on their firmness to not use force. But so far what they have done is acceptable procedures.

[GeorgeO]

The end game of the coup must surely be just round the corner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bz_XZP2aI8

What can be seen in this clip is what reporters the world over refer to as a scuffle. It is not a valid reason for a coup, except in the over-optimistic minds of anti-government supporters.

So what you are saying is that this "scuffle" is what anti-government protesters are relying upon for a coup to bring about a change in government ....?! Have you been asleep for a couple of years?

[robert888d]

She should set a date for a new election IMMEDIATELY !

[aaacorp]

She should set a date for a new election IMMEDIATELY !

Why? Because less than 1% of the country was in the street to ask an appointed council?

[Artisi]

"Capital is still tense after tear gas fired at protesters"

Am I suppose to believe from reading this headline that firing teargas at protesters was meant to make things calmer?

I believe that they are using UN approved tear gas, that actually makes you cry from emotional stress, rather than a physiological effect on the optic structure of the cranium. The gas, more appropriately know as 'tearful gas' basically makes victims sit down, and think about really sad things that have happened in their lifetimes, a kind of reflection if you like. So don't read too much into those reports, if anything, it help with those suffering PTSD.

Please post a link showing that the UN approves tear gas.

The following seems to negate your statement

http://aliran.com/9156.html

Edited December 1, 2013 by Artisi

[razorramone]

 

"Capital is still tense after tear gas fired at protesters"

Am I suppose to believe from reading this headline that firing teargas at protesters was meant to make things calmer?

 

I've been on the recieving end teargas a few times and yes, it is a very good way to disperse a crowd. Unless you are wearing a gas mask, you are entering a world of pain and wont want to do anything but get out of there. Lemon and wet clothes may limit it, but not much.

Although Bangkok's road layout hinders that, since most roads aren't linked up, are dead ends.

Edited December 1, 2013 by razorramone

[Carrerakiss]

Dissolution of the house and new elections is the only proper way out of this mess, as the current government has clearly abused their power for personal gains. But new elections should not take place, until a massive anti-corruption committee has been set up, to jail and fine all corrupt persons in Thailand, starting with the politicians and then the police, army, government officials....... you continue!

The anti-corruption committee should of course be totally independent, but how will this be possible, when everyone in Thailand seems to be for sale?? Today I have spent quite some time, to wonder how many honest people can actually be found in Thailand??

There is no point wishing for the totally unattainable. It's a waste of time. But sure, let's dissolve parliament, have new elections and then when a Thaksin supported government is elected, what then? Another round of the same. It's about the best that can realistically happen. The rest of what you propose is pure fantasy

[indyuk]

Meanwhile Deputy Prime Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana said, "We understand that the protest leaders are trying hard to force the government to use violence in order to increase their support fortheir own benefit.

Absolutely! It's a tactic straight out of the UDD copy book.

And fortunately the current governemment is showing more restraint. So far.

You forget that the initial red shirt protests were handled with great restraint in 2009. When they returned in 2010 the government exercised the same constraint until Thaksin's black shirt squad fired on the soldiers causing fatalities. If the army had been ordered to take fire without being allowed to defend themselves, someone would have been put on trial for that without doubt.

Anyway tear gas, rubber bullets, water cannons, batons are not strictly non-lethal and can always be counted on to cause a death eventually, particularly in the hands of poorly trained police

More lies. The Men in Black were not Red Shirt protesters. Perhaps they were Military 'P.A.R.U.' whose uniforms are jet black when on active service. Their regimental Badges are also blacked out.

[khunken]

Meanwhile Deputy Prime Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana said, "We understand that the protest leaders are trying hard to force the government to use violence in order to increase their support fortheir own benefit.

Absolutely! It's a tactic straight out of the UDD copy book.

And fortunately the current governemment is showing more restraint. So far.

You forget that the initial red shirt protests were handled with great restraint in 2009. When they returned in 2010 the government exercised the same constraint until Thaksin's black shirt squad fired on the soldiers causing fatalities. If the army had been ordered to take fire without being allowed to defend themselves, someone would have been put on trial for that without doubt.

Anyway tear gas, rubber bullets, water cannons, batons are not strictly non-lethal and can always be counted on to cause a death eventually, particularly in the hands of poorly trained police

More lies. The Men in Black were not Red Shirt protesters. Perhaps they were Military 'P.A.R.U.' whose uniforms are jet black when on active service. Their regimental Badges are also blacked out.

Read his post before putting foot in mouth. He didn't say they were red shirt protestors but they started the killing and were effectively the red shirt (& Thaksin's) militia.

Secondly tear gas in itself is not lethal but it was when used by incompetent police against the yellow shirts protestors by another of Thaksin's appointees - Somchai the brother-in-law.

Edited December 1, 2013 by khunken

[bigbamboo]

She should set a date for a new election IMMEDIATELY !

Why? Because less than 1% of the country was in the street to ask an appointed council?

No, partly to defuse the situation and partly because the government that was elected in 2011 is not the same as we have now..... the agenda, the ministers, even the leader (sic) have changed!

Yingluck may say calm is needed but that won't happen unless it proves it is willing to let the people decide if they still support it.

We don't want a re run of 2010.

[bigbamboo]

Meanwhile Deputy Prime Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana said, "We understand that the protest leaders are trying hard to force the government to use violence in order to increase their support fortheir own benefit.

Absolutely! It's a tactic straight out of the UDD copy book.

And fortunately the current governemment is showing more restraint. So far.

You forget that the initial red shirt protests were handled with great restraint in 2009. When they returned in 2010 the government exercised the same constraint until Thaksin's black shirt squad fired on the soldiers causing fatalities. If the army had been ordered to take fire without being allowed to defend themselves, someone would have been put on trial for that without doubt.

Anyway tear gas, rubber bullets, water cannons, batons are not strictly non-lethal and can always be counted on to cause a death eventually, particularly in the hands of poorly trained police

More lies. The Men in Black were not Red Shirt protesters. Perhaps they were Military 'P.A.R.U.' whose uniforms are jet black when on active service. Their regimental Badges are also blacked out.

Perhaps they were ghosts.

[Local Drunk]

 

"Capital is still tense after tear gas fired at protesters"

Am I suppose to believe from reading this headline that firing teargas at protesters was meant to make things calmer?

 

I've been on the recieving end teargas a few times and yes, it is a very good way to disperse a crowd. Unless you are wearing a gas mask, you are entering a world of pain and wont want to do anything but get out of there. Lemon and wet clothes may limit it, but not much.

Although Bangkok's road layout hinders that, since most roads aren't linked up, are dead ends.

Yeah I've been hit a few times myself...

[Baerboxer]

Thailand does not have a proportional representation system but a mixture of a direct vote and a party list. Each voter votes twice - once for their individual choice & once for their party of choice.

Yingluck was on the party list. What the 'elections are the only answer' dingbats don't realise is that her party - PTP - does not hold internal elections for PM. There is no internal democracy within that party - all positions, including YL's - are selected by one (crook) person - her brother.

I find it so difficult to understand how an almost totally peaceful series of demonstrations can be disrupted by those oh so peaceful red shirts. They never resort to intimidation & violence and would never attack their opponents. I'm hoping to get a red shirt from Santa this year.

The constitution that applied when she became leader of the PTP party was created by a coup lead government that was much friendly to Democrats than the other side.

She was leader of the party when it went to the polls was it not?

Her and her party won 265 out of 500 seats based on the rules set down in that constitution..... If it was a system based on Canada/UK then it would have been an overwhelming landslide with no need to cosy up to any other parties at all.

She did pass a law that was found to be unconstitutional.... that happens all the time and the law is stricten but that does not delegitimize the government....

She did try to pass an amnesty bill, there was opposition, there was protests - all legitimate to this point. At this point Suthep should have declared victory and gone home ready to fight another day and another battle.

But then Suthep started trying to overthrow the current elected government (i.e. legitimate government) (a definite violation of Section 68 of that constitution)..... that should never be allowed.... but then this is Thailand with 15 coups over the last 80 years..... constitutions are meant to be ignored and or torn up when it suits people like Suthep.

A government that acts illegally, lies, cheats the parliamentary procedures and tries to pass unconstitutional laws whilst avoiding accountability and refusing to answer questions would be forced out in most real democracies. There is more than one mistake to delegitimize this regime. That's before considering the fraternization, regular meetings and instructions taken, by their own admissions, from a convicted criminal.

This is regardless of the quality of the opposition. An elected government does not have carte blanche to do whatever it likes and is not above the law and must be accountable.

[Baerboxer]

Meanwhile Deputy Prime Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana said, "We understand that the protest leaders are trying hard to force the government to use violence in order to increase their support fortheir own benefit.

Absolutely! It's a tactic straight out of the UDD copy book.

And fortunately the current governemment is showing more restraint. So far.

You forget that the initial red shirt protests were handled with great restraint in 2009. When they returned in 2010 the government exercised the same constraint until Thaksin's black shirt squad fired on the soldiers causing fatalities. If the army had been ordered to take fire without being allowed to defend themselves, someone would have been put on trial for that without doubt.

Anyway tear gas, rubber bullets, water cannons, batons are not strictly non-lethal and can always be counted on to cause a death eventually, particularly in the hands of poorly trained police

More lies. The Men in Black were not Red Shirt protesters. Perhaps they were Military 'P.A.R.U.' whose uniforms are jet black when on active service. Their regimental Badges are also blacked out.

How do you know? Do you have proof?

[aaacorp]

Thailand does not have a proportional representation system but a mixture of a direct vote and a party list. Each voter votes twice - once for their individual choice & once for their party of choice.

Yingluck was on the party list. What the 'elections are the only answer' dingbats don't realise is that her party - PTP - does not hold internal elections for PM. There is no internal democracy within that party - all positions, including YL's - are selected by one (crook) person - her brother.

I find it so difficult to understand how an almost totally peaceful series of demonstrations can be disrupted by those oh so peaceful red shirts. They never resort to intimidation & violence and would never attack their opponents. I'm hoping to get a red shirt from Santa this year.

The constitution that applied when she became leader of the PTP party was created by a coup lead government that was much friendly to Democrats than the other side.

She was leader of the party when it went to the polls was it not?

Her and her party won 265 out of 500 seats based on the rules set down in that constitution..... If it was a system based on Canada/UK then it would have been an overwhelming landslide with no need to cosy up to any other parties at all.

She did pass a law that was found to be unconstitutional.... that happens all the time and the law is stricten but that does not delegitimize the government....

She did try to pass an amnesty bill, there was opposition, there was protests - all legitimate to this point. At this point Suthep should have declared victory and gone home ready to fight another day and another battle.

But then Suthep started trying to overthrow the current elected government (i.e. legitimate government) (a definite violation of Section 68 of that constitution)..... that should never be allowed.... but then this is Thailand with 15 coups over the last 80 years..... constitutions are meant to be ignored and or torn up when it suits people like Suthep.

A government that acts illegally, lies, cheats the parliamentary procedures and tries to pass unconstitutional laws whilst avoiding accountability and refusing to answer questions would be forced out in most real democracies. There is more than one mistake to delegitimize this regime. That's before considering the fraternization, regular meetings and instructions taken, by their own admissions, from a convicted criminal.

This is regardless of the quality of the opposition. An elected government does not have carte blanche to do whatever it likes and is not above the law and must be accountable.

Totally agree and theonly solution to look better than them is to use the law and not occupy illegaly the tv stations and the ministries

[DGIE]

brewsterbudgen, on 01 Dec 2013 - 15:35, said:

And fortunately the current governemment is showing more restraint. So far.

Exactly. Yingluck is so patient.

Another group of anti-government did riot and went wild today at Ramkhamhaeng Rd. They attacked the bus, reversed a car side down, burnt double deck bus...but I don't know the place..

[Emdog]

Dissolution of the house and new elections is the only proper way out of this mess, as the current government has clearly abused their power for personal gains. But new elections should not take place, until a massive anti-corruption committee has been set up, to jail and fine all corrupt persons in Thailand, starting with the politicians and then the police, army, government officials....... you continue!

The anti-corruption committee should of course be totally independent, but how will this be possible, when everyone in Thailand seems to be for sale?? Today I have spent quite some time, to wonder how many honest people can actually be found in Thailand??

If this were actually done (fat chance!) they could use post it notes sized ballots. Taksin's corruption charge was case of kettle calling pot black. Of course he was corrupt, they ALL are. Don't look for virgins in whore houses....

[aaacorp]

She should set a date for a new election IMMEDIATELY !

Why? Because less than 1% of the country was in the street to ask an appointed council?

No, partly to defuse the situation and partly because the government that was elected in 2011 is not the same as we have now..... the agenda, the ministers, even the leader (sic) have changed!

Yingluck may say calm is needed but that won't happen unless it proves it is willing to let the people decide if they still support it.

We don't want a re run of 2010.

that s why the rallies should abid with the laws and not storm ministires , CAT and tv stations

[gemguy]

***REPORT JUST IN***

The protesters finally get through the gate at Government House only to find a note on the door that reads:

"GONE SHOPPING.......please come back later"

Better yet: "Out for Som Tum"....

[Biscuit22]

***REPORT JUST IN***

The protesters finally get through the gate at Government House only to find a note on the door that reads:

"GONE SHOPPING.......please come back later"

Better yet: "Out for Som Tum"....

Funny you should say that... The social networks are alive with rumours that Yingluck has not been in the country since last night.

Allegedly been leaked from some source that she is long gone as with a bunch of others.

Now this is just unconfirmed rumours, but who here believes that it is quite possibly true?

I for one certainly think so.

[harryfrompattaya]

There is only one man in Thailand, who everybody would agree to, to make an apointment of a civil adminastrator. The person appointed should be someone who can not be bought, a person of Bill Gates wealth. The person also shoud not be Thai but knowledgeable of asian customs.

After a military coup, this person would be put in charge for a period of 2 to 3 years before holding a new election.

Just a dream

Thank You I will take the Job and bring riches to myself

[gemguy]

Dissolution of the house and new elections is the only proper way out of this mess, as the current government has clearly abused their power for personal gains. But new elections should not take place, until a massive anti-corruption committee has been set up, to jail and fine all corrupt persons in Thailand, starting with the politicians and then the police, army, government officials....... you continue!

The anti-corruption committee should of course be totally independent, but how will this be possible, when everyone in Thailand seems to be for sale?? Today I have spent quite some time, to wonder how many honest people can actually be found in Thailand??

If this were actually done (fat chance!) they could use post it notes sized ballots. Taksin's corruption charge was case of kettle calling pot black. Of course he was corrupt, they ALL are. Don't look for virgins in whore houses....

Exactly and you wonder why so many Thais support the yellow shits as if they are going to be more accountable while claiming to be honest politicians when it was the likes of the yellow shits that set the corrupt standards for milking the system a long time ago.

Every other political party ever having been in power simply just followed the clear guidelines developed by the Old Guard loyalists who wrote the book on how to scam and profit from their political appointments.

The means to milk the Thai political system for gain and profit is so entrenched in Thailand the best you can hope for is what ever party is in power spreads the wealth around a little bit more than the previous political party.

Sincere political honesty and accountability by any political party in power will never be realised in Thailand.

[whatsupdoc]

***REPORT JUST IN***

The protesters finally get through the gate at Government House only to find a note on the door that reads:

"GONE SHOPPING.......please come back later"

Better yet: "Out for Som Tum"....

Funny you should say that... The social networks are alive with rumours that Yingluck has not been in the country since last night.

Allegedly been leaked from some source that she is long gone as with a bunch of others.

Now this is just unconfirmed rumours, but who here believes that it is quite possibly true?

I for one certainly think so.

The PM is in Thailand. She just met with Suthep (in the presence of the army commanders).

[DocN]

***REPORT JUST IN***

The protesters finally get through the gate at Government House only to find a note on the door that reads:

"GONE SHOPPING.......please come back later"

Better yet: "Out for Som Tum"....

Funny you should say that... The social networks are alive with rumours that Yingluck has not been in the country since last night.

Allegedly been leaked from some source that she is long gone as with a bunch of others.

Now this is just unconfirmed rumours, but who here believes that it is quite possibly true?

I for one certainly think so.

So...the self-proclaimed hero of democracy and justice, Suthep, was talking to an imaginary PM for one hour?

[louse1953]

Meanwhile Deputy Prime Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana said, "We understand that the protest leaders are trying hard to force the government to use violence in order to increase their support fortheir own benefit.

Absolutely! It's a tactic straight out of the UDD copy book.

And fortunately the current governemment is showing more restraint. So far.

More retraint than what.The previous mass demo.went on for maybe 9 months,before things got violent.

[khunken]

She should set a date for a new election IMMEDIATELY !

Why? Because less than 1% of the country was in the street to ask an appointed council?

No, partly to defuse the situation and partly because the government that was elected in 2011 is not the same as we have now..... the agenda, the ministers, even the leader (sic) have changed!

Yingluck may say calm is needed but that won't happen unless it proves it is willing to let the people decide if they still support it.

We don't want a re run of 2010.

that s why the rallies should abid with the laws and not storm ministires , CAT and tv stations

Presumably you said the same about storming Satellite stations & hospitals in 2010. Maybe if those leaders weren't offered an amnesty you'd be right. As it is, if Thaksin can get away with it, then why can't Suthep?

[gemguy]

***REPORT JUST IN***

The protesters finally get through the gate at Government House only to find a note on the door that reads:

"GONE SHOPPING.......please come back later"

Better yet: "Out for Som Tum"....

Funny you should say that... The social networks are alive with rumours that Yingluck has not been in the country since last night.

Allegedly been leaked from some source that she is long gone as with a bunch of others.

Now this is just unconfirmed rumours, but who here believes that it is quite possibly true?

I for one certainly think so.

I do not think she needs to run...not quite yet....but it could grow all the more nasty and she may have to lay low and let some of her political cronies do her public work for her while she stays clear of any attemps to harm her or her familiy while working the system from a secure location and out of harms way.

Clearly there are more than enough of the opposition that really hate her and her brother and her whole family and their political cronies and their political maneuvering to the point of inciting riots and anarchy in an effort to have her ousted.

They are sending her a pretty strong message even though the Yellow shirt opposition to her is just as untrustworthy and dishonest as her political ensemble.