How Many 'Mom & Pop' Are There In Thailand?

[Nibbles48]

Sorry Folks... title should read

'How Many 'Mom & Pop Stores' Are There In Thailand?'

One statistic I have been trying to nail is 'how many mom & pop shops' there are in Thailand?

I am talking about the little independent general dealers that sell every day convenience products and snacks and get their stock mostly from Makro.

I am sure everyone has one withing 3 minutes walking distance from their home.

I know that 7/11 have around 8000 stores nationwide, and I did a little study in our local area where there are three 7/11s within a 1.5KM radius of our house. I drew a mental radius around each one that was roughly half way to the nearest (other) 7/11. I found that there were 32 mom & pop shops within one 7/11 zone and 29 in the other, and 37 in the other. There may have been a few more because I am sure we did not cover every single road in every soi.

So based on that info, can we assume that there are an average of say 33 per 7/11? Would you think that is a fair assumption? Even though outside the towns and cities there are a lot greater distances between 7/11s so probably a lot more mom and pop shops.

Based on that above average alone, would say there are easily a minimum of 250,000 mom & pop stores in operation across Thailand.

I know this thread may make me sound like a bit of a 'sad act' but it does have a reason, as I am doing a market research project for our business.

Would be happy to hear any feedback from other members, how is the concentration of these little stores in your own area?

Edited December 4, 2013 by Nibbles48

[seajae]

in a 1 klm stretch of our road there are 2 x 7/11's, 1 x Tesco and 2 x those other ones(cant think of the name), add to this around 20 plus mom & pop stores, this is just on the main road and not any of the side streets, I want to know how they make a living. Add to this whenever you see a dress shop there are several all lined up beside each other, same with every opther type of shop. It amazes me how they can be selling the same thing that close together and survive.

[Nibbles48]

in a 1 klm stretch of our road there are 2 x 7/11's, 1 x Tesco and 2 x those other ones(cant think of the name), add to this around 20 plus mom & pop stores, this is just on the main road and not any of the side streets, I want to know how they make a living. Add to this whenever you see a dress shop there are several all lined up beside each other, same with every opther type of shop. It amazes me how they can be selling the same thing that close together and survive.

That is something I have noticed myself regarding clothe shops, stainless steel fabricators, shoe menders, massage shops and especially bars and restaurants that sell the same food.

I think mom and pop shops are happy making between 2 and 5 baht per item they sell. I have sat many times in our local bar watching the trade and they can get well over 10 customers an hour in a pretty well hidden location. So I would think if the average customer bought say 2 items, then this is at least a living that can ensure that they can eat and pay the bills, and more importantly, pretty much sat on their backsides.

[bigbamboo]

I've counted at least thirty seven.

[CharlieH]

Just as an indication, in my village there are 12 mom & pop type stores, one big one, the nearest 7-11 is about 10 km away. The city is 24km away, there are about 10 7-11's there but surprisingly not that many mom & pop stores selling snacks and the like, mostly in the city they sell trade specific stuff.

In the surrounding villages many M&P no 7-11 at all.

[Nibbles48]

Just as an indication, in my village there are 12 mom & pop type stores, one big one, the nearest 7-11 is about 10 km away. The city is 24km away, there are about 10 7-11's there but surprisingly not that many mom & pop stores selling snacks and the like, mostly in the city they sell trade specific stuff.

In the surrounding villages many M&P no 7-11 at all.

Thank you for that input CharlieH

Here in Korat City, the M&Ps are pretty much concentrated in the sois. In the main shopping areas, they are quite thin on the ground. But in the residential zones almost every street has one or more. Behind my house is a small street that maybe is 350 M long has 4 all selling the same stock from Makro. I can walk to any one of 8 M&Ps within 2 minutes walking from my front gate.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Nibbles48

[Thaddeus]

I've counted at least thirty seven.

I've just put your 37 in to my calculator and added my count.

It came up with answer "lots"

I think it may be broken, or looking to make a name for itself in the accountancy field.

[I Like Thai]

There are 185,743 exactly

[thehelmsman]

In a village of 250 homes - 4 stores.

[David48]

I admire it when a member's personal experience is extrapolated and extended to cover all that call the Kingdom home.

"I am sure everyone has one within 3 minutes walking distance from their home." ... nope.

Maybe the OP is a lead-in to his other OP ... fantastic-opportunity-in-confectionery-startup-711-makro-no-problem

Good Luck with it all, both the statistical measurement and your Business start-up.

.

[barrybankruad]

According to Wiki there are approximately 75000 administrative villages in Thailand (2008). I would say that most villages have at least 3 M & P shops. My village (155 houses) at present has 3 shops, but they tend to open and close randomly. Thus an estimate of how many shops there are in the Kingdom would be 225,000 - not far short of the OP's estimate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muban

[ezzra]

What will be the next topic on TV? how many soi dogs are there? how many Som Tam

sellers are there?

[samran]

146,392

Source: my bottom

[ChangMaiSausage]

Serioulsy I dont want to sound nasty but come on you must have better things to do rather than think about this.

sh*t and I'm responding

[David48]

Come on guys ... the OP has a legit right to at least ask the question ... how many practical replies he receives depends upon us ... though I do get a feeling of when I read the OP.

But, I do have to say, having studied Probability and Statistics at Uni ... his investigative technique is, to be complementary, novel, and his sample size, given his limited research areas numbering three, less then optimum.

Just a factual reference, where I live when I stay in Thailand, there is no Ma and Pa shop within 30 mins of walking and the 7/11 ... I'd have to take more then a packed lunch to survive walking to it.

Of course, what about the Family Marts, Mini TESCO's and the like ?

Sadly, I can only offer academic advice.

So many variables ...

[8OA8]

Check how many customers Siam macro has (should be on record as they will likely all hold membership cards) and take that as the number of mom and pop stores in Thailand.

Obviously not 100% accurate, but should give a fair idea of bulk purchasers.

[Garry]

We have at least 5 in our village within probably 500 merters of each other, exapand that out and its a nice exponential curve of M & P stores

[NoshowJones]

What will be the next topic on TV? how many soi dogs are there? how many Som Tam

sellers are there?

This is a good topic, I like to see as many different topics as possible, If you find one boring, then just move on the the next one.

[puukao]

most of these shops double as their house. i would love to know the expiration date on some of their items. why not buy tons of stuff and just make sure someone is around most of the time to sell at a small profit. i once bought a can of coke from a mom and pop shop that was so stale it was mind boggling.

the problem is they all try to make the same small amount.

instead, i would sell "super rare rocks" for 10,000 baht each. with no competition, who knows the true value?

or sell "holy water" from the rivers of the forgotten mountain. 1000 baht a glass.

[Nibbles48]

Come on guys ... the OP has a legit right to at least ask the question ... how many practical replies he receives depends upon us ... though I do get a feeling of when I read the OP.

But, I do have to say, having studied Probability and Statistics at Uni ... his investigative technique is, to be complementary, novel, and his sample size, given his limited research areas numbering three, less then optimum.

Just a factual reference, where I live when I stay in Thailand, there is no Ma and Pa shop within 30 mins of walking and the 7/11 ... I'd have to take more then a packed lunch to survive walking to it.

Of course, what about the Family Marts, Mini TESCO's and the like ?

Sadly, I can only offer academic advice.

So many variables ...

Thank you David48 for your valued input.

Sorry if I chose my words wrong, I should have said 'I am sure most people must have one within 3 minutes walking distance'. Obviously there will always be exceptions. Those living in very rural areas are normally going to be that exception.

Admittedly, unlike yourself, I did not study Probability and Statistics at Uni... But I know enough to be able to agree that their are indeed many variables. This is a tough evaluation from the outset.

The reason we have not needed to include Family Mart and Tesco Lotus in this calculation is that they seem a little less consistent that 7/11 in their grouping by populous. So I took the biggest retailer from the three and used that, including the others would not give me any extra help in calculating the data. Of course there are many other factors, such as 'proximity to a Makro outlet' which has to have an impact on how many M&Ps operate in a certain area.

No matter how much you juggle the already available data, you are not going to get an exact figure. But for the purpose of this research, a +/- 20% tolerance is quite acceptable. Seeing as we are to be supplying direct to Makro anyway, and we should have 100% M&P penetration.

But it is good to have an idea, if in fact in the future we should wish to market directly to the M&P stores via a network of agents.

Thank you for wishing us luck. We have had a great response to the venture... I think we pretty much have all our ducks in a row.

[johnlandy]

There are 185,743 exactly

You're pretty close. It is actually 185,746

[chiang mai]

Not enough "mom and pops", too many 7/11's and far too many Tesco or equivalents.

[Jasun]

The formula I normally use to calculate such things is to count the number of people drinking Pepsi in a plastic bag and divide by the number of soi dogs in a 100m radius.

[chiang mai]

The formula I normally use to calculate such things is to count the number of people drinking Pepsi in a plastic bag and divide by the number of soi dogs in a 100m radius.

And that got you where you are today? You are to be revered.

[rotary]

No parking is killing off many Mom & Pop stores IMHO

[simple1]

Come on guys ... the OP has a legit right to at least ask the question ... how many practical replies he receives depends upon us ... though I do get a feeling of when I read the OP.

But, I do have to say, having studied Probability and Statistics at Uni ... his investigative technique is, to be complementary, novel, and his sample size, given his limited research areas numbering three, less then optimum.

Just a factual reference, where I live when I stay in Thailand, there is no Ma and Pa shop within 30 mins of walking and the 7/11 ... I'd have to take more then a packed lunch to survive walking to it.

Of course, what about the Family Marts, Mini TESCO's and the like ?

Sadly, I can only offer academic advice.

So many variables ...

Thank you David48 for your valued input.

Sorry if I chose my words wrong, I should have said 'I am sure most people must have one within 3 minutes walking distance'. Obviously there will always be exceptions. Those living in very rural areas are normally going to be that exception.

Admittedly, unlike yourself, I did not study Probability and Statistics at Uni... But I know enough to be able to agree that their are indeed many variables. This is a tough evaluation from the outset.

The reason we have not needed to include Family Mart and Tesco Lotus in this calculation is that they seem a little less consistent that 7/11 in their grouping by populous. So I took the biggest retailer from the three and used that, including the others would not give me any extra help in calculating the data. Of course there are many other factors, such as 'proximity to a Makro outlet' which has to have an impact on how many M&Ps operate in a certain area.

No matter how much you juggle the already available data, you are not going to get an exact figure. But for the purpose of this research, a +/- 20% tolerance is quite acceptable. Seeing as we are to be supplying direct to Makro anyway, and we should have 100% M&P penetration.

But it is good to have an idea, if in fact in the future we should wish to market directly to the M&P stores via a network of agents.

Thank you for wishing us luck. We have had a great response to the venture... I think we pretty much have all our ducks in a row.

Doesn't make sense, if Makro are the end client, surely they can provide a forecast of your product supply chain/volume requirement by location or are you shipping to the primary distribution centre. BTW, does the planned acquisition of Makro by CP Group affect your business plan?

[chrisinth]

There are 185,743 exactly

94.5287% of all statistics are made up on the spot...............

I'm assuming your figures are based on statistics, if not, you have much too much time on your hands visiting them all...............

[TheSpade]

I have one in my apartment block. One directly outside my apartment block. One to the left of my apartment block and a few more to the right and round the corner but I never go that way much so I don't know how many exactly.

On the main street from the apartment to the BTS I think there's only 1 that I can think of in an 8-10 minute walk, however there's a dozen 7/11s, a tesco lotus and a Tops. That street is brimming with shops but just 1 mom n pop store.

I'm guessing rent must be high there as it's a popular and busy road. The other stores are in locations that don't get as much foot traffic. You need to have a reason to be in the soi like your apartment being there.

[David48]

Actually, as a confessional ... I have one favourite one.

In the Lower Suk area, maybe Soi 15 or 17 there is one not far from the junction with Sukhumvit Rd.

You can buy a beer there any time, 3am or 3 pm.

Not overpriced, friendly service.

... I love those guys!

[Nibbles48]

Come on guys ... the OP has a legit right to at least ask the question ... how many practical replies he receives depends upon us ... though I do get a feeling of when I read the OP.

But, I do have to say, having studied Probability and Statistics at Uni ... his investigative technique is, to be complementary, novel, and his sample size, given his limited research areas numbering three, less then optimum.

Just a factual reference, where I live when I stay in Thailand, there is no Ma and Pa shop within 30 mins of walking and the 7/11 ... I'd have to take more then a packed lunch to survive walking to it.

Of course, what about the Family Marts, Mini TESCO's and the like ?

Sadly, I can only offer academic advice.

So many variables ...

Thank you David48 for your valued input.

Sorry if I chose my words wrong, I should have said 'I am sure most people must have one within 3 minutes walking distance'. Obviously there will always be exceptions. Those living in very rural areas are normally going to be that exception.

Admittedly, unlike yourself, I did not study Probability and Statistics at Uni... But I know enough to be able to agree that their are indeed many variables. This is a tough evaluation from the outset.

The reason we have not needed to include Family Mart and Tesco Lotus in this calculation is that they seem a little less consistent that 7/11 in their grouping by populous. So I took the biggest retailer from the three and used that, including the others would not give me any extra help in calculating the data. Of course there are many other factors, such as 'proximity to a Makro outlet' which has to have an impact on how many M&Ps operate in a certain area.

No matter how much you juggle the already available data, you are not going to get an exact figure. But for the purpose of this research, a +/- 20% tolerance is quite acceptable. Seeing as we are to be supplying direct to Makro anyway, and we should have 100% M&P penetration.

But it is good to have an idea, if in fact in the future we should wish to market directly to the M&P stores via a network of agents.

Thank you for wishing us luck. We have had a great response to the venture... I think we pretty much have all our ducks in a row.

Doesn't make sense, if Makro are the end client, surely they can provide a forecast of your product supply chain/volume requirement by location or are you shipping to the primary distribution centre. BTW, does the planned acquisition of Makro by CP Group affect your business plan?

Nope.

Makro can't give us an idea of figures, their business is used by bar owners, restaurant owners, everyday people (like myself) just doing random shopping, street food sellers and of course mom & pop shop owners. It is not exclusive to M&Ps.

The CP takeover did actually cross my mind, especially with the way they are trying to monopolise the food industry in Thailand, but they are not in our line of product anyway, so I don't think it will affect us at all.