Handing power to Suthep 'no way to fight corruption'

[webfact]

Handing power to Suthep 'no way to fight corruption'
Pravit Rojanaphruk
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Thailand faces the problems of corruption and abuse of power, as well as the so-called "tyranny of the majority", but people who feel frustrated should not try to tackle these problems by dismantling the existing democratic system as it won't solve anything, noted Thammasat University political scientist Kasian Tejapira said yesterday.

Kasian, a key member of the newly formed Assembly for the Defence of Democracy (AFDD), was responding to a question about corruption by The Nation on Tuesday at Chulalongkorn University's Faculty of Political Science, where the group held a press conference. Kasian said many Bangkokians who joined the protest are frustrated by the fact that their party of choice, the opposition Democrat Party, continually loses elections, and so they feel powerless to change anything.

Kasian said political parties in Thailand are currently still under the domination of money from capitalists, and measures must be introduced to tackle the problem so that party members and the electorate will have more say and sway. He said Thailand is not alone in facing such problems, adding that the task will take time. He said people should not "hope for angels to descend down to take up guns and seize state power", a reference to the hope among some protesters for another military coup.

He warned that rushing to solve the problem by abandoning the electoral system and dismantling the democratic structure won't solve anything.

"Countries which are democratic use democracy to reduce corruption - [they don't] destroy democracy in order to stop some forms of corruption, while allowing other forms of corruption to continue unchecked," Kasian said. He added that there is no mechanism to scrutinise protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, his People's Democratic Reform Committee or his proposed "People's Council" if it materialises.

Kasian predicted dire consequences for democracy if Suthep is handed "absolute power". "What tools would Thai people have to scrutinise Suthep once he has seized all the power?"

"If we keep on walking the wrong path, there will be many more people who will have to die in vain. And it won't solve any problems. That's the saddest thing," said Kasian, in reference to fears of possible violent confrontations between the two sides in the days and weeks ahead.


-- The Nation 2013-12-13

[sustento]

I'm sorry but what is a 'political scientist'? As Richard Feynmann said (look him up) 'if it ain't got maths it ain't science'...

[arthurboy]

Kasian is right.

Corruption in Thailand takes many forms. Dishonest and fraudulent behaviour is endemic and not confined to politics alone, and certainly not just to the incumbent government.

Successive military juntas from the 50's to the 70's and then civilian governments - some elected, some appointed - have bled Thailand dry for decades.

So, Khun Suthep, why not decry the institutionalised corruption, and those responsible for it, that have been a cancer of this society for so very long?

Why not?

sent from my hippo phone

[bobdown1]

From wiki leaks whatever that means. I guess this is how they read into it. I assume it is their opinion only 1995 to present corruption scandal[edit]

As part of the Sor Por Kor 4-01 (สปก.4-01) land reform scheme, Suthep gave title deeds to 592 plots of land in Khao Sam Liam, Kamala and Nakkerd hills of Phuket province to 489 farmers. It was later found that members of 11 wealthy families in Phuket were among the recipients. Suthep addressed a huge crowd in his Surat Thani constituency a month before a no-confidence debate and called on his supporters to march on Bangkok in the hundreds of thousands to defend his reputation.^[3] The scandal led Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai of the Democrat Party to dissolve the House of Representatives in July 1995 in order to avoid the no-confidence debate.^[4] In subsequent elections, Thai Nation Party won a majority, leading to the downfall of Chuan Leekpai's Democrat Party-led government.

2009 disqualification as MP[edit]

In 2009, Suthep was accused of violating the Constitution of Thailand by holding equity in a media firm that had received concessions from the government. Under the 1997 Constitution of Thailand, which Suthep had supported, Members of Parliament are banned from holding stakes in companies which have received government concessions. In July 2009, the Election Commission announced that it would seek a ruling by the Constitutional Court to disqualify Suthep.

Suthep held a press conference a day later, announcing his decision to resign from Parliament. Suthep's resignation as an MP did not affect his status as a Deputy Prime Minister and as a Cabinet member. If his case had been submitted to the Constitution Court, he would have been suspended from duty as Deputy Prime Minister. He insisted his resignation was not a proof that he had done anything wrong but that he was worried about status as Deputy Prime Minister.^[5]

Kasian is right.

Corruption in Thailand takes many forms. Dishonest and fraudulent behaviour is endemic and not confined to politics alone, and certainly not just to the incumbent government.

Successive military juntas from the 50's to the 70's and then civilian governments - some elected, some appointed - have bled Thailand dry for decades.

So, Khun Suthep, why not decry the institutionalised corruption, and those responsible for it, that have been a cancer of this society for so very long?

Why not?

sent from my hippo phone

[bkkfaranguy]

Maybe Suthep has another motive to this coup he is attemping, one of the rich that gained power and more wealth fron Sutheps land deal is the current family controling Phuket. The current government was trying to crack down on curruption there a few months ago but with not much success, I wonder if they are one of Sutheps backers?

[Thai at Heart]

I'm sorry but what is a 'political scientist'? As Richard Feynmann said (look him up) 'if it ain't got maths it ain't science'...

Even moreso, Thai political scientist...

When will they stop taking themselves so seriously and start from..

So,,everyone is corrupt so everyone must go to jail....

Edited December 13, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[noitom]

It's time for the Thai press to stand up and start writing news and doing investigative journalism truthfully. Eliminate all the nonsensical duplicitous stories pandering to corrupt people, companies, and institutions. The Thai press needs to take responsibility for leading the charge and calling them out relentlessly.

Who are the politicians and government officials north, east, and south of Bangkok? We never get news and information on any breaking news reports on discovery and/or follow up on criminal activity and corruption -Who is going to jail for human trafficking, elephant ivory, endangered animal trafficking? Who is being hauled out in handcuffs for running counterfeit property trade and currency laundering?

When the Thai press shows up, then we will know that Thailand is on the move for positive change. Until then it appears that the Thai press is complicit in all these corrupt coverups.

[blaze]

Exactly-

Why are we not hearing details of specific instances of corruption in the government- or the beaurocracy for that matter? It is not as if the courts are shy about prosecuting members of the current government- all they need is evidence-- We hear about the horrible corruption in the government- surely someone can come up with something substantive that will verify what appears to be common knowledge (like Clinton's corruption in Whitewater was common knowledge-- only problem- as near as the courts could determine- it never happened).

[northernjohn]

It's time for the Thai press to stand up and start writing news and doing investigative journalism truthfully. Eliminate all the nonsensical duplicitous stories pandering to corrupt people, companies, and institutions. The Thai press needs to take responsibility for leading the charge and calling them out relentlessly.

Who are the politicians and government officials north, east, and south of Bangkok? We never get news and information on any breaking news reports on discovery and/or follow up on criminal activity and corruption -Who is going to jail for human trafficking, elephant ivory, endangered animal trafficking? Who is being hauled out in handcuffs for running counterfeit property trade and currency laundering?

When the Thai press shows up, then we will know that Thailand is on the move for positive change. Until then it appears that the Thai press is complicit in all these corrupt coverups.

Particularly the Nation for English speakers.

[CWMcMurray]

You don't hear anything from the media, as due to the very strong libel laws here would guess than many are afraid for sort of real investigative journalism

[Thailand]

Fighting corruption NK style.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25359939

[edwinchester]

Suthep and the Dems had their chance to change the system only three years ago when they held the reins of power so how come they passed that opportunity up?

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MaxLee]

Thailand faces the problems of corruption and abuse of power, as well as the so-called "tyranny of the majority", but people who feel frustrated should not try to tackle these problems by dismantling the existing democratic system as it won't solve anything, noted Thammasat University political scientist Kasian Tejapira said yesterday.

Democratic system??? WHAT DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM??? In a Thai Style autocracy you only have two choices:

1. Vote buying

2. Mob-coup ousting

Don't give us that CRAP that either parties call DEMOCRACY

I think Mr. Kasian is just another one of these brainwashed high status, high degree, but brainless, clueless academics who wouldn't give a damn about young student's independent different points of view thinking, and just brought his political statement up, to look soooo democratically worried about the democracy in Thailand.... Pretty face in the news,... academic old SCUM fart

[bangarang]

The fact that if there is a military coup again (which they claim there wont be) but lets say it does happen. Thats would be #12 for the past 80 years. It seems like this happens every 7 years so what makes this year any different? Really, the problems need to fixed and not completely dismantled every time.

If there is a crack in your wall do you fix the crack or tear down your house and completely build it up again. Granted the shinawatra clan is much bigger than a little crack, but at least keep the good and focus on repairing the bad.

[mojorison]

It's time for the Thai press to stand up and start writing news and doing investigative journalism truthfully. Eliminate all the nonsensical duplicitous stories pandering to corrupt people, companies, and institutions. The Thai press needs to take responsibility for leading the charge and calling them out relentlessly.

Who are the politicians and government officials north, east, and south of Bangkok? We never get news and information on any breaking news reports on discovery and/or follow up on criminal activity and corruption -Who is going to jail for human trafficking, elephant ivory, endangered animal trafficking? Who is being hauled out in handcuffs for running counterfeit property trade and currency laundering?

When the Thai press shows up, then we will know that Thailand is on the move for positive change. Until then it appears that the Thai press is complicit in all these corrupt coverups.

You are aware that Sondhi (boss of the Nation), and Thaksin were business partners. They were friends once upon a time, but a business deal soured their friendship, and Sondhi commenced his Thaksin vendetta. The rest is history. They are all cut from the same cloth. They act to preserve personal interests first and foremost. It's a shame that we have to tag along for the ride. With this nepotism in the media, there will never be transparency. You need to do your own homework and read stuff from abroad. All this aside, it is impossible to debate politics like adults when we have this elephant in the room that can't be mentioned.

[spirit47]

I wonder, that a scientist forget a very important point, this Government was going to undermining the Constitution, so that it get full power. What is democracy without an opposition? Further, this Government is established by buying votes and populistic promises, like the rice-pledging-scheme, tablet gift, first car scheme, paid by the taxpayers. But they not able to solve any problem, the rice-pledging-scheme can not help farmers in a long term, and the most money dont arrive at the poor. The rural roads are full of potholes, the railways are a joke, the whole electric system is terrible.

1.) They spend money for good looking, not for good working.

2.) It look like nobody control them spending money.

3.) Maybe 50% of the money they spend going to "Nirwana".

Corruption under this Government going worse, look at the Corruption Index.

Now, they not able to pay for the rice-pledging-scheme, and going to make dept for the next 50 years. I think its high time, to stop this parasites, and Suthep seems to be the only one to do it.

[pookiki]

It's time for the Thai press to stand up and start writing news and doing investigative journalism truthfully. Eliminate all the nonsensical duplicitous stories pandering to corrupt people, companies, and institutions. The Thai press needs to take responsibility for leading the charge and calling them out relentlessly.

Who are the politicians and government officials north, east, and south of Bangkok? We never get news and information on any breaking news reports on discovery and/or follow up on criminal activity and corruption -Who is going to jail for human trafficking, elephant ivory, endangered animal trafficking? Who is being hauled out in handcuffs for running counterfeit property trade and currency laundering?

When the Thai press shows up, then we will know that Thailand is on the move for positive change. Until then it appears that the Thai press is complicit in all these corrupt coverups.

Unfortunately, Thailand's criminal and libel laws do not promote an environment for an independent press doing in depth investigations.

[noitom]

You don't hear anything from the media, as due to the very strong libel laws here would guess than many are afraid for sort of real investigative journalism

That's part of the whole problem in Thailand. The fear of the press of reprisals. Without freedom of the press, Thailand is a joke. They need to change this post haste.

[klauskunkel]

Handing power to Suthep 'no way to fight corruption'

I agree with that.

to tackle these problems by dismantling the existing democratic system as it won't solve anything

the existing political system has proven itself worthless (except by those in power) many times over and if you do not start out from scratch you just perpetuate the same problems with a different flavor or color.

Kasian predicted dire consequences for democracy if Suthep is handed "absolute power".

I agree with that, too.

"What tools would Thai people have to scrutinise Suthep once he has seized all the power?"

What tools do they have now to scrutinize the government? Who controls those tools and what is their effectiveness?

Edited December 13, 2013 by klauskunkel

[tingtongteesood]

Suthep is only going on about this 'people's committee' stuff as it is the only way to try and pressure stubborn Miss PM into leaving. If the Shin regime ended and they were all banned from politics, I am sure Suthep would have no problem with new elections. Since Thaksin won't leave it alone and by proxy neither will his puppets, any new elections would be subject to mass fraud as has every other election under Thaksin ( remember 3 of his parties have been dissolved for electoral fraud )...

[AloisAmrein]

Absolutely right! Suthep and his right-wing gang will not resolve anything, but make the situation much more bad.

[Totster]

Suthep is only going on about this 'people's committee' stuff as it is the only way to try and pressure stubborn Miss PM into leaving. If the Shin regime ended and they were all banned from politics, I am sure Suthep would have no problem with new elections. Since Thaksin won't leave it alone and by proxy neither will his puppets, any new elections would be subject to mass fraud as has every other election under Thaksin ( remember 3 of his parties have been dissolved for electoral fraud )...

But surely Suthep should be banned from politics as well then. Can't see him going for that.

totster

[pxlgirl]

I'm surprised how many posters here fall for all the PR and BS of either side. Shouldn't we know better that BOTH are full of crap in their own little ways and just taking turns in office? Pointing out the mistakes of the other doesn't make it less or more wrong.

[DocN]

Handing power to Suthep 'no way to fight corruption'

Handing the key to the henhouse to the fox 'no way to fight chicken-death'

[SamMunich]

Giving Suthep a free reign is certainly not the way to go.

In my oppinion, Suthep is the guy to get things going, like organizing the past demonstrations or "getting things done", but he is certainly not the right person to start studying constitutional choices and changes. So asking him, what formal changes he wants is the wrong question. Let lawyers and political scientists (there you go...) create something, that works. Suthep is the man to go after what he thinks is evil.

I think we all, including the fast, sorry: the vast majority of Thais are totally against the big-scale corruption, that has gripped Thailand in the last 12 or so years. It is this big-scale corruption, that drains the economy of valuable "blood to keep the economy going". We're not necessarily talking about the small stuff like the 100 Baht for traffic offences,- at least not in the first step. We are talking about the 40% of big projects, that vanish into private pockets of the super wealthy!

So the point is, with what mechanism can vote-buying and large scale fraud / corruption be subdued? For Suthep it is the "peoples council" or whatever he calls it. Anybody coming up with a better, viable solution should step up and introduce it. Only saying "Suthep = bad man" or "Suthep = dictatorial", that is not enough.

And before journos can produce better news, Thailand will have to abolish it's overly strict law against defamation, which is used as a weapon against anybody and anything critical of the bigwigs...

My 5 cents,

Sam

[billd766]

Suthep and the Dems had their chance to change the system only three years ago when they held the reins of power so how come they passed that opportunity up? Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thaksin had power during 10 out of the last 13 years.

How come he passed that opportunity up?

It didn't stop him from trying to destroy the checks and balances though.

[CWMcMurray]

Giving Suthep a free reign is certainly not the way to go.

In my oppinion, Suthep is the guy to get things going, like organizing the past demonstrations or "getting things done", but he is certainly not the right person to start studying constitutional choices and changes. So asking him, what formal changes he wants is the wrong question. Let lawyers and political scientists (there you go...) create something, that works. Suthep is the man to go after what he thinks is evil.

I think we all, including the fast, sorry: the vast majority of Thais are totally against the big-scale corruption, that has gripped Thailand in the last 12 or so years. It is this big-scale corruption, that drains the economy of valuable "blood to keep the economy going". We're not necessarily talking about the small stuff like the 100 Baht for traffic offences,- at least not in the first step. We are talking about the 40% of big projects, that vanish into private pockets of the super wealthy!

So the point is, with what mechanism can vote-buying and large scale fraud / corruption be subdued? For Suthep it is the "peoples council" or whatever he calls it. Anybody coming up with a better, viable solution should step up and introduce it. Only saying "Suthep = bad man" or "Suthep = dictatorial", that is not enough.

And before journos can produce better news, Thailand will have to abolish it's overly strict law against defamation, which is used as a weapon against anybody and anything critical of the bigwigs...

My 5 cents,

I

Sam

I agree with some of what you are saying, but to me it does not seem that their is a problem with the democratic elections...

To me it seems that the problem with law enforcement and prosecution of politicians breaking the current laws that are in the books

Vote buying is already illegal, corruption is already illegal.... If more enforcement and jailing was done done of the those guilty of crimes it would clean up the process quickly

But that should mean seeding up corruption cases ... No delays for years and years in the prosecution

No bail for corruption cases or at least no bail for those convicted and waiting for appeal ... And certainly no permission to go overseas for the Olympics or anything else

If not happy with the fact that corrupt politicians are running the country, the fix is not a dictatorship or revising the constitution, but throwing the guilty in jail

It should not be 5 yrs banned from politics but 5 years in prison

[Spare]

Suthep and the Dems had their chance to change the system only three years ago when they held the reins of power so how come they passed that opportunity up? Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

He forgot.

[Emdog]

"Bangkokians who joined the protest are frustrated by the fact that their party of choice, the opposition Democrat Party, continually loses elections, and so they feel powerless to change anything."

Here is my free political scientific analysis: 1. if dems continue to lose, it is because they don't appeal to majority of Thai voters 2. change and adapt your message to appeal to those outside of Bangkok. Like they say in AA "If you keep doing sme thing over and over and expect a different outcome, that's crazy" 3. Get a map of Thailand, not just Bangkok. Learn about your own country 4.As long as dems are party of well off Bangkok types, they will continue to lose. Get your people in high police and army positions so that coups are SOP. 5. Forget about democracy if you can't win

[Polanskiman]

Suthep and the Dems had their chance to change the system only three years ago when they held the reins of power so how come they passed that opportunity up?

Because the purpose is not to change anything. The purpose is to re-establish their control (by force) and not to give it to the people as falsely claimed by that maniac of suthep.