Expats' view on political chaos in Thailand

[scorecard]

I think everyone is missing the point here. These political problems that are bringing the country to it,s knees have nothing to do with who can or cannot vote. It is all about one man,s insatiable greed for money and power, and the fact that more and more people are beginning to realise this.

And that one man seems to be very quiet right now. It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall at the Skype meetings.

[HeavyDrinker]

Thailand isn't looking to assimilate to the known world order

Nonsense, then why the obsession with appearing to be seen as a ''true democracy" on the international stage? You seem distressingly unaware of Thailand's ambitions in spite of the rather aloof timbre of your post.

[Scott]

Farang don't even have the right to vote.

They vote with their money. Business people, tourists, residents. If you read the article you would have understood that.

I don't know if this is directly related but this is what is being reported:

Toyota to shift Thai output base to Indonesia

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....e-to-indonesia/

[Muhendis]

Good that they point out all the damage to the economy from the protests!

Weird that "educated Thai people" following Sutheep are OK with all this damage done to the economy,

which mainly will hurt poorer parts of the population working in factories and in tourism,

in return for vague plans of a non-elected council of "wise men" to run the country.

Have not heard a single make-sense or concrete plan for reducing corruption so far.

You would think people in both political parties know a lot about the nitty-gritty details of corruption and abuse of power here, or not?

Perhaps I need to be enlightened. OK, the reds are corrupt power-abusers, I agree, but where's the "clean" alternative?

No wonder embassies and experts can't really support the goals of the demonstrators.

The protests are said to have coat the economy 70 billion baht. The rice scheme alone has already cost 500 billion baht.

That's one reason "educated people" are following Suthep.

Sent from my phone ...

If I might add my two baht worth here.

They are educated meaning they are not mindless they are looking to make a better future.

Such is not the case with the PTP or their allies the red shirts. They live in a grab all you can today and dam_n the future attitude.

I have heard of this so called

"vague plans of a non-elected council of "wise men" to run the country."

But what I am under the understanding of is they are to continue the running of the country but their real purpose is to make reasonably plans for reform in the country and then hold an election.

To find the people to do this will be the big problem. In my opinion leaders in business should also be a part of it. Also there are some academics who have there feet on the ground unlike many of their colleagues who have there head in the sky.

Politicians who tell lies and claim it is OK and the people who support them should be kept for away from the council except to testify.

There are honest men in politics and I believe there is one man in a position to not only know some of them but respected enough that his recommendations would be taken very seriously by all Thais.

I agree with your sentiments however I think Thailand tried that bit about leaders and it all went greedily wrong. He now is a part of it from Dubai.

[MJP]

Farang don't even have the right to vote.

They vote with their money. Business people, tourists, residents. If you read the article you would have understood that.

I don't know if this is directly related but this is what is being reported:

Toyota to shift Thai output base to Indonesia

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....e-to-indonesia/

I believe Nikon are moving from Thailand to Laos. Perhaps not completely but moving a lot of production there.

http://investvine.com/new-nikon-factory-in-laos-to-open-in-october/

[rebelplatoon]

I am very surprised at the views of some Dem members. Especially considering that both Abhisit and Apirak are quite pro westerners. As to the reason why Suthep wants to change some things first:

Some people don't seem to understand why this is. It is NOT because Suthep wants to control anything else but the WAY elections are being held. During the Mr. "T" regime the constituents have been altered to fit the TRT party. Very large constituents with large numbers of voters would give one party only one seat (These they changed and were Democratic strongholds) much smaller constituents, with much fewer people were divided up in several constituents with one seat each. This means that even when people did not vote a 100% for the TRT they would still have a "glorious victory" over the Democrats.

In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituents. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). If this had been in the range of anything like 225 to 196 this would have been a fair and acceptable result. (the difference being about 13%) or in seats 29. This would have allowed (just an example) the Democrats to team up with some other parties and still form a Government. Besides in the opposition it would have given them lots more control.

Then due to certain constituents differences it could have been anything in the range of 210 to 235 for the TRT and 190 to 220 for the Dems and it would be acceptable, justifiable and explainable.

NOW do we understand why Suthep wants a hand in the way the elections are set up?

Mind you, I do not agree with an interim Government and all that, unless it would be an agreed upon (by both parties) Business Government to boost the country back on the map first. But that would demand restraint, patience and understanding. Values that are the foundation of Buddhism, but are hard to be found in politricks.

Just my two cents worth....

[connda]

"...the politics of Philippines until recently was much worse."

You call the public shooting of the mayor of Labangan, his wife, his niece, and an innocent bystander (child) in the Manila Airport a step in the right direction in Philippines politics. It's probably more dangerous there then Thailand.

[harryfrompattaya]

Why is the president of the Thai-Finnish Chamber of Commerce from the United States?

Wake up America still controls the world I think he is even a Zionist

[connda]

Kasit said "Foreigners shut up"......Suthep said "I don't respect the foreigners".... Sent from my GT-I9200 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And if it gets too dicey in Bangkok, Foreign direct investments will move to other more stable countries.

[12DrinkMore]

What are they blathering about?

Thailand has had its constitution for how long?

There has been a new constitution in

1932

1946

1949

1952

1968

1974

1976

1978

1991

1997

2006

2007

It is a HUB of Constitutions.

[bigbamboo]

What are they blathering about?

Thailand has had its constitution for how long?

There has been a new constitution in

1932

1946

1949

1952

1968

1974

1976

1978

1991

1997

2006

2007

It is a HUB of Constitutions.

In case I'd better make no more comments and if asked will just plead the 105th Amendment.

[Ulic]

"In terms of democracy, Thailand has had its Constitution for only 81 years. If you look at my country, America, we got the constitution in 1787 - 81 years later we were facing civil war. That gives you some idea of an advancement."

Nice observation.

So for all those who think civil war is unlikely, think again.

The country is already totally split between north and south.

The US may be in a state of total government dysfunction but facing civil war. Please

This is the type of guy that thinks a football game is a war, what a knucklehead. Can't be taken seriously.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Farang don't even have the right to vote.

They vote with their money. Business people, tourists, residents. If you read the article you would have understood that.

I don't know if this is directly related but this is what is being reported:

Toyota to shift Thai output base to Indonesia

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....e-to-indonesia/

I believe Nikon are moving from Thailand to Laos. Perhaps not completely but moving a lot of production there.

http://investvine.com/new-nikon-factory-in-laos-to-open-in-october/

Relocating manufacturing from Thailand to other SEA nations probably has more to do with Thailand's skyrocketing labor costs and less to with with perceived political instability. Also, Thailand is now seen as having a shortage of skilled labor.

[blokker]

I am very surprised at the views of some Dem members. Especially considering that both Abhisit and Apirak are quite pro westerners. As to the reason why Suthep wants to change some things first:

Some people don't seem to understand why this is. It is NOT because Suthep wants to control anything else but the WAY elections are being held. During the Mr. "T" regime the constituents have been altered to fit the TRT party. Very large constituents with large numbers of voters would give one party only one seat (These they changed and were Democratic strongholds) much smaller constituents, with much fewer people were divided up in several constituents with one seat each. This means that even when people did not vote a 100% for the TRT they would still have a "glorious victory" over the Democrats.

In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituents. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). If this had been in the range of anything like 225 to 196 this would have been a fair and acceptable result. (the difference being about 13%) or in seats 29. This would have allowed (just an example) the Democrats to team up with some other parties and still form a Government. Besides in the opposition it would have given them lots more control.

Then due to certain constituents differences it could have been anything in the range of 210 to 235 for the TRT and 190 to 220 for the Dems and it would be acceptable, justifiable and explainable.

NOW do we understand why Suthep wants a hand in the way the elections are set up?

Mind you, I do not agree with an interim Government and all that, unless it would be an agreed upon (by both parties) Business Government to boost the country back on the map first. But that would demand restraint, patience and understanding. Values that are the foundation of Buddhism, but are hard to be found in politricks.

Just my two cents worth....

Thanks. Ah, gerrymandering like in the U.S. Ok, now if that's true, I understand better why the dems don't want to participate in the upcoming election.

But, were'nt the Dems and Sutheep in power for 3 years before the previous election was held?

So, why didn't they change the districts at that time, when they were in charge?

Curious to learn more about that.

Ps: And Sutheep never explains this issue as clearly as the nice post above; all he seems to do is produce meaningless waffle about some mysterious People's Council. But, perhaps I am not part of his target group, and his reasoning makes perfect sense in some other parralel universe.

(Oops, culturally insensitive farang; bad bad!) Or my own understanding of Thai is poor, and wife's translation of the Theep's speeches just very biased.

[whybother]

I am very surprised at the views of some Dem members. Especially considering that both Abhisit and Apirak are quite pro westerners. As to the reason why Suthep wants to change some things first:

Some people don't seem to understand why this is. It is NOT because Suthep wants to control anything else but the WAY elections are being held. During the Mr. "T" regime the constituents have been altered to fit the TRT party. Very large constituents with large numbers of voters would give one party only one seat (These they changed and were Democratic strongholds) much smaller constituents, with much fewer people were divided up in several constituents with one seat each. This means that even when people did not vote a 100% for the TRT they would still have a "glorious victory" over the Democrats.

In numbers: The TRT and Dems had respectively: 15,744,190 and 11,433,762 people vote for them. A difference in % of the population of resp. (TRT, Dems) 48.41% and 35.15%. (say 13%) This was NOT reflected in the seats in Parliament by the self dividing rule of the TRT who changed the constituents. (TRT/ Dems) 265 seats against 159 seats or in seats 106 (!!). If this had been in the range of anything like 225 to 196 this would have been a fair and acceptable result. (the difference being about 13%) or in seats 29. This would have allowed (just an example) the Democrats to team up with some other parties and still form a Government. Besides in the opposition it would have given them lots more control.

Then due to certain constituents differences it could have been anything in the range of 210 to 235 for the TRT and 190 to 220 for the Dems and it would be acceptable, justifiable and explainable.

NOW do we understand why Suthep wants a hand in the way the elections are set up?

Mind you, I do not agree with an interim Government and all that, unless it would be an agreed upon (by both parties) Business Government to boost the country back on the map first. But that would demand restraint, patience and understanding. Values that are the foundation of Buddhism, but are hard to be found in politricks.

Just my two cents worth....

Thanks. Ah, gerrymandering like in the U.S. Ok, now if that's true, I understand better why the dems don't want to participate in the upcoming election.

But, were'nt the Dems and Sutheep in power for 3 years before the previous election was held?

So, why didn't they change the districts at that time, when they were in charge?

Curious to learn more about that.

Ps: And Sutheep never explains this issue as clearly as the nice post above; all he seems to do is produce meaningless waffle about some mysterious People's Council. But, perhaps I am not part of his target group, and his reasoning makes perfect sense in some other parralel universe.

(Oops, culturally insensitive farang; bad bad!) Or my own understanding of Thai is poor, and wife's translation of the Theep's speeches just very biased.

The Democrats did change the process while they were in power. They changed it from a multi-member constituency to a single-member constituency. That gave better representation to the people.

[12DrinkMore]

What are they blathering about?

Thailand has had its constitution for how long?

There has been a new constitution in

1932

1946

1949

1952

1968

1974

1976

1978

1991

1997

2006

2007

It is a HUB of Constitutions.

In case I'd better make no more comments and if asked will just plead the 105th Amendment.

The problem, distilled down to the basics, is that no Thai can accept a higher moral principle above their own search for personal gain.

They will not and certainly cannot be leaders in the Asian confluence.

Edited December 21, 2013 by 12DrinkMore

[VegasVic]

Why is the president of the Thai-Finnish Chamber of Commerce from the United States?

He got on the wrong bus in Helsinki

More than likely he went to university in the U.S. and then decided to stay as most foreign students do

[VegasVic]

Farang don't even have the right to vote.

They don't need it. The foreign investors can fire all of their Thai employees, close down their business and take their money elsewhere. They have that right at least

The exodus of foreign businesses has already begun and Vietnam has been the most recent beneficiary, if Thailand does not get their act together soon then Burma will take another bite out of the thai manufacturing sector in the not too distant future

[VegasVic]

I think everyone is missing the point here. These political problems that are bringing the country to it,s knees have nothing to do with who can or cannot vote. It is all about one man,s insatiable greed for money and power, and the fact that more and more people are beginning to realise this.

I couldn't agree more with you, Sutheps insatiable greed for power and money is bringing this country down and something must be done to eradicate this fascist menace

[kimamey]

Farang don't even have the right to vote.

Not exactly earth shattering news. I think most farangs here know we can't vote. However we' and in many cases our families are affected by how Thais vote and what the government does.

[IngotoThamachaat]

Farang don't even have the right to vote.

So are you saying the foreigners in your country CAN vote.....?

YES! ....

[KC 71]

Sometimes I think that we should take a good look at the mess our home countries are in before judging others !

Sure i want peace -red+yellow=orange - isn't that the couloir that monks wear ?

[nong38]

The first thing politicians here need to do is to accept defeat with grace and dignity. It really is no good saying elect us, everything will be great if the opposition then cannot wait for the next election to settle the score.

I sometimes think that the parties really do not want al election, they just want to take control without one and run things the way they see fit, the opposition them over throws them 2 years down the line and they have a go and so it goes on, but, that is no way to run a country is it? Well not in our eyes anyway.

A new election would more than likely return the same outfit, so, until all the parties get together and reveal the problems as they see it and find, difficult as it may be, a way forward together, the country's political system is going to be disfunctional. Its all me, me ,me with no consideration for others, just like driving on the roads here so maybe its not so surprising there is such a big problem and no Thai seems to think how the world sees them carrying on. The good part for us is that the exchange rate continues to improve, just so long as it does not get violent I can live with that and observe the rantings and breaking of olive branches wondering how all this will end, or perhaps it will be like a Thai soap opera that just goes on and on.

[thaibeachlovers]

<First of all, as foreigners, we try to stay out of politics>

Should have taken his own advice.

Who does he think he is anyway?

[whybother]

<First of all, as foreigners, we try to stay out of politics>

Should have taken his own advice.

Who does he think he is anyway?

They're both people who talk directly to the government about foreign business issues in Thailand.

[MobileContent]

Farang don't even have the right to vote.

So are you saying the foreigners in your country CAN vote.....?

If they become citizens , YES ! But how does one become a citizen of Thailand, its just about impossible.

Possible - I know of 4 expats that became Thai citizens.

Not that difficult. Learn how to read and write Thai. Mary a Thai and take her name. Be in Thailand for twenty years, pay your taxes over the past 20 years, no tourists visas between and you might have a good chance of becoming a Thai citizen. It's actually not that difficult. I can do it but I don't want to loose my German passport for international travel. If my government in Germany would allow dual citizenship I will apply right away.

[thaibeachlovers]

<First of all, as foreigners, we try to stay out of politics>

Should have taken his own advice.

Who does he think he is anyway?

They're both people who talk directly to the government about foreign business issues in Thailand.

If they're that clever, they should know better than to get involved in Thai politics, other than on TV forum, of course.

However, it was businessmen that crashed the world's economy, wasn't it, so perhaps they aren't half as clever as they think they are .

[penwithcris]

The ignorance of people like Suthep is why the country is slowly declining. Maybe its about time some of these people took advice from farangs who come from prosperous democratic countries. Unlike Thai politics, which is basically a joke. Ever heard of a Thai winning a Nobel prize for anything. Very few. Could be seen as a measure of this countries brain power.

[penwithcris]

I'm not an American, but I have to say that Thailand is light years away from being the country that America is today. In fact it still trails hopelessly behind the way America was at the time of the founding fathers.

There are many countries around the World that have contributed little or nothing to cultural or technological advancement, and Thailand is right up there(or down there) with the non-achievers.

The irony is that we are regarded as 'stupid Farangs' when nearly every invention or device Thais depend upon originated in the Western world.

In saying that I believe that Suthep is in line for the Nobel Peace Prize this year

[MilesofSmiles]

Why is the president of the Thai-Finnish Chamber of Commerce from the United States?

I always wonder that too...every time I see this guy quoted in the news lately, and he seems to go out of his way talking about the U.S. And I say that as an American...

Shouldn't he be talking a bit more about Finland???

Maybe he has valid things to say about countries other than his birthplace.