Democrats slam door on poll

[scorecard]

Thai opposition to boycott polls

BANGKOK: Thailand's main opposition Democrat Party on Saturday announced it would boycott snap elections in the crisis-gripped kingdom, piling further pressure on the government as protesters prepare to ramp up rallies aimed at suspending democracy.

Party members -- who resigned as MPs en masse to join the demonstrations that have rocked Bangkok for weeks -- voted against participating, according to Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva.

"The Democrats think the elections will not solve the country's problems, lead to reform, or regain people's faith in political parties," he said in a press conference following the meeting.

He added that the decision would not affect the "legitimacy" of the vote and the party would not "obstruct" polling.

Embattled premier Yingluck Shinawatra, who called the February 2 elections in an effort to cool tensions, has insisted the polls will go ahead regardless of the Democrat decision.

But the move throws Democrat backing firmly behind protesters who are calling for democracy to be paused for an unelected "people's council" to be installed to enact reforms before a future vote.

Demonstrators want to rid the country of Yingluck and the influence of her Dubai-based brother Thaksin -- an ousted billionaire ex-premier who is despised by a coalition of the southern Thai poor, Bangkok middle classes and elite.

Thailand has seen several bouts of political turmoil since Thaksin was ousted in a military coup in 2006, with rival protests sometimes resulting in bloody unrest.

"I think if the Democrats ran in the election, we might get the most votes and be able to form a government -- but then again people will be mobilised to rally against our party," former premier Abhisit added.

The boycott announcement comes a day ahead of a planned major rally by the protesters, who are led by firebrand former Democrat MP Suthep Thaugsuban.

Suthep, who has vowed to rid Thailand of the "Thaksin regime", has dismissed the election, saying it will install another government allied to the divisive former premier.

He has appealed for army support, in a country which has seen 18 successful or attempted coups since 1932.

But the military has indicated it is unlikely to intervene directly this time.

Two decades without a majority

The Democrats, Thailand's oldest party, have not won an elected majority in some two decades.

The party last took power in 2008 by parliamentary vote after a court stripped Thaksin's allies of power, angering his "Red Shirt" supporters who launched mass street protests three years ago that ended in a military crackdown that left dozens dead.

Thaksin, who now lives in self-exile, is adored by many outside Bangkok, particularly in the north and northeast, for his populist policies.

But the billionaire tycoon-turned-politician is reviled by the elite, who see him as corrupt and a threat to the monarchy.

Pro-Thaksin parties have won every election since 2001, most recently with a landslide victory under Yingluck two years ago.

The Democrats previously boycotted elections in 2006, helping to create the political uncertainty which heralded the military intervention that ousted Thaksin.

The latest boycott could lead to a similar situation, with polls "nullified" on technical grounds, said Pavin Chachavalpongpun, a former Thai diplomat and associate professor at the Centre for Southeast Asian Studies at Japan's Kyoto University.

But he said the party "might as well die, they would become so irrelevant" if they did not participate.

"Walking away from it, it's just bad on the part of the Democrat Party. Especially if (the) international community is now watching the Thai situation so closely," he said in comments ahead of the meeting.

On Friday the Democrats sent a letter to other parties requesting a postponement of the polls because of the ongoing protests.

But the suggestion was rejected by the ruling Puea Thai, which is widely expected to win the election.

Initial party registration for the vote begins Monday and lasts until December 27.

Yingluck on Saturday offered to set up a body to implement reforms, in the latest olive branch to opponents.

"The government agrees that reform is needed and is willing to cooperate. We reaffirm that the reform process can go ahead alongside elections," she said in a televised address.

Demonstrators want Sunday's gathering to be bigger than earlier protests, which have drawn at least 150,000 supporters at their peak in some of the largest rallies for years in the politically-divided kingdom.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/thai-opposition-to-boycott-polls-43598.php

-- Phuket News 2013-12-22

She said: "The government agrees that reform is needed and is willing to cooperate."

So why haven't you mentioned this even one time in the last 2 years?

[Skywalker69]

The TV red shirt supporters got up early this morning.

[blaze]

Several historians, in the 50s predicted that thel the millenarian utopian dictatorships of STalinism, fascism, theocracy, -= would become the norm.

How can we not hear the whistles and see the mobs and not be reminded of the march on Rome?

One year from now- where will this country be? Corruption free? No more back handers to local officials to break laws? No more paying the police to run whorehouses disguised as bars? No more keeping two sets of books- one for the proprieter- and one to submit to the revenue departmentS?

Or will it be isolated by the west-- foreign investment withdrawn, participation in international treaties, trade pacts etc nullified by those that fear the rise of neo-fascism?

Like Cuba- N Korea- Iran.

Will it be, as the military chief recently warned, a full blown civil war? the various componenets of the miliatary choosing sides-- and in one year as in beautiful Berlin, exotic Sarajevo, we search the rubble for corpses of our loved one?

Or will the supporters of the government and the democratic process for resolving social conflict miraculously see the light and agree that their voices should be ignored- their dreams and aspirations ignored.

How many people in all these lalaland utopian movements have awaken too late to realize that the 'change' that they whistled for has become a night mare? No revolution has ever occurred where many among its strongest supporters didn't hear the early morning knock-- a guillotine, firing squad, dungeon awaiting.

And from history, we will have learned nothing- not because we are stupid-= but because we are ignorant. And so the horrible dance is played again and again--

[chooka]

9-14 months ? But the voting public doesn't even know WHO exactly “ they “ are yet ?

I think it is time for you to wake up

Who is Yingluck suggesting? The same people that put forward the Amnesty bill?

No... It will be a group of PTP MP's relatives and people controlled by Heir Thaksin himself.

Everyone knows that including all the PTP supporters, but why should they care?

I would not be surprised if a Shinawatra is in there somewhere, and possibly headed by Chalerm or Tarit.

All walks of life my arse... PTP supporters from all walks of life to be more accurate.

Who does the supreme ruler lord Suthep propose, a group of his closet friends? He refused to speak to the government where a body could have been selected from all sides. The little weasel wants it 100% his way or no way, no compromise, no negotiation just hand him the country.

[Spalpeen]

"....he (Abhisit) had a feeling the Democrats had a good chance of winning if they contested the election". A truly rare example of a political party refusing to take part in an election they expect to win. Or possibly just another lying politician who never won an election in his life.

[MrJohnson]

There is not one serious or credible political commentator either here or abroad who thinks that the idea of a 'People's Committee' has merit.

It is a delaying tactic on the part of the Democrats and their backers to give them time to work out a way to keep the Shinawatras out of government. Perhaps they could work on a meaningful political platform that resonates with the electorate for starters. Something perhaps they have not previously had to bother with.

[Nibbles48]

Yes, they said 9 to 14 months actually.

Or are you a 'Johnny come lately' and not been following the commentary over the past 6 weeks?

I would highly surprised if the democrats haven't lost support due to their hamfisted handling of their should we shouldn't we backing of the protests and their refusal to run in elections.

11.5 million people voted for them in the last election and they have now taken away the ability for those people to express their support for their policies and representation.

It's quite shameful...Shows a total disregard for your supporters unless you are 100% sure they all support the PDRC which is doubtful.

With regards to PDRC claim of 9-14 months reform period, this seems rather arbitrary.

It could be less (unlikely) or it could be longer, there is no FIRM policy on what they want to reform, how they propose this council will be appointed etc etc

When you see Suthep and PDRC constantly changing the date for the end of these protests how can they be trusted to finish their proposed "reform" and holding elections in a timely manner.

You are wildly misinformed. Almost all of their supporters wanted the boycott.

Please bring us the evidence to support your claim that they have lost voter support for boycotting or even their approach to boycotting.

They are not stupid you know.

[Scott]

Posts with personal attacks have been removed. Please stop making personal remarks about other posters or family members.

[backtonormal]

I would like to hear people's views on Abhisit's quote, "the democratic process has been distorted."

What does that mean to people?

well it clearly means "we will lose - so we won't take part - so there!" and that's all it means as if they thought they could/would win their constant whining would miraculously cease

Yet, they took part in the 2007 and 2011 elections when they didn't have much chance. Try again.

They know that even with all this corruption by PTP that they will suffer an even bigger routing than the 100 seat loss at the last election. Best not compete with The most popular politician in Thai history because he will hand our 4rse back to us. How unelectable are the Dems?

[backtonormal]

Yes, they said 9 to 14 months actually.

Or are you a 'Johnny come lately' and not been following the commentary over the past 6 weeks?

I would highly surprised if the democrats haven't lost support due to their hamfisted handling of their should we shouldn't we backing of the protests and their refusal to run in elections.

11.5 million people voted for them in the last election and they have now taken away the ability for those people to express their support for their policies and representation.

It's quite shameful...Shows a total disregard for your supporters unless you are 100% sure they all support the PDRC which is doubtful.

With regards to PDRC claim of 9-14 months reform period, this seems rather arbitrary.

It could be less (unlikely) or it could be longer, there is no FIRM policy on what they want to reform, how they propose this council will be appointed etc etc

When you see Suthep and PDRC constantly changing the date for the end of these protests how can they be trusted to finish their proposed "reform" and holding elections in a timely manner.

You are wildly misinformed. Almost all of their supporters wanted the boycott.

Please bring us the evidence to support your claim that they have lost voter support for boycotting or even their approach to boycotting.

They are not stupid you know.

Please supply 11,000,000 links to support this

[wave]

Yes, they said 9 to 14 months actually.

Or are you a 'Johnny come lately' and not been following the commentary over the past 6 weeks?

I would highly surprised if the democrats haven't lost support due to their hamfisted handling of their should we shouldn't we backing of the protests and their refusal to run in elections.

11.5 million people voted for them in the last election and they have now taken away the ability for those people to express their support for their policies and representation.

It's quite shameful...Shows a total disregard for your supporters unless you are 100% sure they all support the PDRC which is doubtful.

With regards to PDRC claim of 9-14 months reform period, this seems rather arbitrary.

It could be less (unlikely) or it could be longer, there is no FIRM policy on what they want to reform, how they propose this council will be appointed etc etc

When you see Suthep and PDRC constantly changing the date for the end of these protests how can they be trusted to finish their proposed "reform" and holding elections in a timely manner.

You are wildly misinformed. Almost all of their supporters wanted the boycott.

Please bring us the evidence to support your claim that they have lost voter support for boycotting or even their approach to boycotting.

They are not stupid you know.

Excuse me but you are the one making the claim that the Democrats had not lost any support (I merely stated I would be surprised if they hadn't)

I find that somewhat contentious, please bring us the evidence that they have gained voter support....

With regards to them not being stupid I guess we'll have to wait and see, unless of course you can produce evidence to the contrary....

[backtonormal]

Yes, they said 9 to 14 months actually.

Or are you a 'Johnny come lately' and not been following the commentary over the past 6 weeks?

I would highly surprised if the democrats haven't lost support due to their hamfisted handling of their should we shouldn't we backing of the protests and their refusal to run in elections.

11.5 million people voted for them in the last election and they have now taken away the ability for those people to express their support for their policies and representation.

It's quite shameful...Shows a total disregard for your supporters unless you are 100% sure they all support the PDRC which is doubtful.

With regards to PDRC claim of 9-14 months reform period, this seems rather arbitrary.

It could be less (unlikely) or it could be longer, there is no FIRM policy on what they want to reform, how they propose this council will be appointed etc etc

When you see Suthep and PDRC constantly changing the date for the end of these protests how can they be trusted to finish their proposed "reform" and holding elections in a timely manner.

You are wildly misinformed. Almost all of their supporters wanted the boycott.

Please bring us the evidence to support your claim that they have lost voter support for boycotting or even their approach to boycotting.

They are not stupid you know.

Excuse me but you are the one making the claim that the Democrats had not lost any support (I merely stated I would be surprised if they hadn't)

I find that somewhat contentious, please bring us the evidence that they have gained voter support....

With regards to them not being stupid I guess we'll have to wait and see, unless of course you can produce evidence to the contrary....

There is many middle of the road Bangkokians who would have switched from Dems at this election. Look at The Bangkok Governer election...PTP candidate got a 400,000 increase in his vote. If the Dems had run we would have see Bangkok fall to PTP in a big way

...Pi Nong na krap (repeat over 1000 times to sound just like Mr Suthep)

Edited December 22, 2013 by backtonormal

[Nibbles48]

Yes, they said 9 to 14 months actually.

Or are you a 'Johnny come lately' and not been following the commentary over the past 6 weeks?

I would highly surprised if the democrats haven't lost support due to their hamfisted handling of their should we shouldn't we backing of the protests and their refusal to run in elections.

11.5 million people voted for them in the last election and they have now taken away the ability for those people to express their support for their policies and representation.

It's quite shameful...Shows a total disregard for your supporters unless you are 100% sure they all support the PDRC which is doubtful.

With regards to PDRC claim of 9-14 months reform period, this seems rather arbitrary.

It could be less (unlikely) or it could be longer, there is no FIRM policy on what they want to reform, how they propose this council will be appointed etc etc

When you see Suthep and PDRC constantly changing the date for the end of these protests how can they be trusted to finish their proposed "reform" and holding elections in a timely manner.

You are wildly misinformed. Almost all of their supporters wanted the boycott.

Please bring us the evidence to support your claim that they have lost voter support for boycotting or even their approach to boycotting.

They are not stupid you know.

Please supply 11,000,000 links to support this

No... It is on here in a thread somewhere, why should I go looking, many of the readers here will have read it themselves and understand what I am talking about.

It is you that first claimed they have risked losing their supporters because of their handling of the boycott., and that has not been mentioned in any commentary that I have read on here, or the nation or the BP.

So go get it.

Actually it was easy to find.

Democrat leaders estimate that 70 per cent of Thais believe an election is the best way to end the current political conflict, while 30 per cent do not want an election now, the source added.

"Most of the group [the 30 per cent] are Democrat supporters. So if the party decides to run in the election, it is hard to imagine what will happen next. We might become the party hated by the protesters. We might get less than 100 seats in the election," the source said.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/690275-uneasy-times-for-democrats-and-pheu-thai/

So there you go... I showed you mine, now show me yours.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Nibbles48

[Thailand]

Restoring peoples confidence in politicians by all resigning their elected posts and then refusing to take part in an election they wanted?

Am I missing something?

The ability to read I would think.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yet another well thought out deep and insightful post related to the OP, most impressive.

[LuckyLew]

The country cannot move forward and will not move forward as long as it is being run by a Shinawatra living in Dubai

Too bad for Thailand that one convicted felon living in another country is heck bent on destroying the country in the name of greed power and revenge ...

som nom na

[geriatrickid]

Why should they lose their right to complain. You do so and you sit on the sidelines. Everyone has a right to complain.

You just summed up the key problem for the Democrats and their political eunuch of a leader, Abhisit. Political parties that constantly complain and agitate without providing viable alternatives or reasonable solutions fall by the wayside. They lose the right to be seen as an electable alternative. The Democrats have failed to enunciate a coherent policy and have not provided an example when it comes to clean politics. In politics, perceptions matter, and the Democrats are perceived as weak, unfocused and desperate.

BTW some foreigners are not sitting on the sidelines. It comes with the job for some, although they are not allowed to say or do some things.

[Toscano]

I can only guess that the Democrat Party id hoping to aid Suthep's PDRC , in boycotting the elections , the EC will call foul , national riots follow and

the army steps in as in 2006 . This time the circumstances are different and I do not think the Democrats will achieve that objective .

Yingluck has invited discussion for reform to resolve the impasse , but neither Democrats or PDRC are willing to participate , they want to decide reforms by themselves without Yingluck and PT party in the chair . A minority group cannot decide and implement reforms without the consent and cooperation of the

majority of Thai people , otherwise it will be business as usual with no change at all .

[mikemac]

Definitely no Thaksin fan and believe he should be sitting in a cell with Bubba and 20 of mates. Definitely no Suthep fan either and believe he is a crazed lunatic who's only goal is to take the country for himself and establish a Nth Korean style of government. Thaksin or Suthep hum hard to separate the two and I definitely don't have a turd from either one mounted and positioned on my mantle piece.

I agree with you about Thaksin, in a perfect world he would be washing Bubba's underwear right now, wondering what the night would bring.

Also agree with you about Suthep being a crazed lunatic but not so sure he wants to rule Thailand with an iron fist, a-la Kim Jong Un. I think he has destroyed any chance we had of seeing PTP crash and burn. Without his mad tactics PTP would have got greedy, taken all the rope, and hung themselves. Now they will use Suthep to justify their actions, and 50% of the population will swallow it.

[rametindallas]

Looking at this from another side, who the fk in thei right minds would want to govern now, the country is in deep sht thanks to the last goverment and will take ages to get back on track, with this move i see big problems for the future.

Non of the political parties want or ever wanted to govern. That would mean they would be working for the benefit of the country and all it's citizens would have a chance to prosper. What they want, and have always wanted was the franchise to strip the country of any and all wealth they could transfer into their own pockets, including stealing from the future (e.g. borrow 2.2 - 2.5 trillion Baht for 50 years). I have become very cynical since coming here in 1999.

[fab4]

As you can see from the magnitude of the protests the PTP are clearly not the friends of the Thai so their name is clearly nonsense

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well apparently 15 million people were friends of PTP a year or so ago.

Even allowing for (and I'm being generous) a couple of million voters turning their back on the PTP that's still one hell of a lot more than sutheps sheeple.

You may have noticed that the dems, even though they don't have the stomach for a democratic election, do not support sutheps idea of a peoples council, so you can't count their (and I'm being generous here) 11 million odd voters.

So I'm quite happy with the idea of the name remaining apt. Sorry,what was your argument again?

Edited December 22, 2013 by fab4

[MacWalen]

I don't know what to think about it. Giving handouts by overpaying for rice is a sure way of being reelected. The country has a lot more debt now which is a bad thing. If I was a farmer I would vote for such a populist government who is overpaying me for my rice. I would not worry about long term consequences. Populism has already changed people's thinking. So is populism democracy? I remain neutral. Just observing what is going on. Hope there will be a happy end to it soon but perhaps just whisful thinking.

[Smokemachine]

Last part of his speech in English speaking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cKHLuIKG9E

[retsdon]

The problem is that the Dems have moved the goal posts. Protest the Amnesty Bill - fine. And the protest was successful - the bill was withdrawn. But now, they're basically calling for an end to universal suffrage under the guise of 'reform'. That's a whole different thing and a very dangerous game indeed. If you can't have sort things out by reasoned dialogue, then the only way is violence. In fact, about the only thing preventing Thailand slipping into all out civil war right now is that there are no outside parties with a dog in the fight to arm and supply 'their' side. But Somalia, Central African Republic, Rawanda, Sri Lanka all go to prove that any country can tear itself apart if it really decides to. And I'm sure they all said 'it'll never happen here'.

[blaze]

The astonishing thing is that many- including foreigners- seem to think that this craving for a Messiah- or Santa Clause- is new and somehow unique to Thailand.

That it has never occurred to people in a democracy that the system is cumbersome, subject to corruption and grossly inefficient.

Perhaps it is just due to lack of education that they don't hear the voices of continental fascists in the 30s- but surely they see the parallel with Islamist anti-democracy zealots.

Should we suspend Democracy in the US till Obama steps down and accepts responsibility for his 'failed' health care plan?

Should we shut down the Houses of Parliament in Ottawa till Harper admits his culpability in the Senate scandals.

Should Cameron resign because he is not firm enough on immigration?

THis has been shown time and time again: if populist policies don't work, the entire economy of the nation will suffer. The people will no longer enjoy the fruits of hose policieis and they will turn their back on the party that proposes them. (This has heppened repeatedly in the 70s social democracies).

But the quick fix to utopia--- my god- have we no memory?

[Scott]

A post making accusations of someone being paid to post has been removed. At a minimum it is off-topic. It's likely inflammatory and continued such posts will earn a formal warning.

[Roychua]

If they are not going to partake in the elections then that is entirely up to them. Come the 3rd of February don't throw hissie fits and tantrums like spoilt little rich kids. Accept the outcome and move along don't try to overthrow another democratically elected government.

It is very disturbing to read this post, but not unexpected as we all know your preferences.

But you still don't seem to get it. Throwing away 3Bn + baht on an election that will count for nothing is yet again another testiment to this government's mentality.

The people will not accept it, in case you hadn't noticed, the Dems will have lost none of their voters during this farce. But the PTP definitely have, and they have acknowledged this many times. That makes potentially 15 million + people not willing to accept the election or its results. Thius is not about the Dems throwing 'hissy fits', they don't need to. The people will demonstrate for them without any need for a push.

Truth also that you are blind to, is that these elections will NOT be held, they will be disrupted before that date and on the day they will be disrupted... There is a potetial for mass violence, and the government are keeping the powder keg safe and dry and inviting the fuse to be lit.

Reform BEFORE elections is what the protests are about.... wake up!

Nibbles48 is always condeming and branding other poster who is supporting the rule of law as PT or Red shirt supporter,

I saw an earlier post from you earlier that a shop who wants to charge your wife 650bt instead of 450bt listed for a pair of pant for you just because she is buying them for you(Farang). Why didn't you pay for them because it is also what the shop owner wants you pay? Other people is not allow to feel injustice but only you can?

Suthep should include you as 1 of the 100 spot in the people council he is proposing because both of you have the same mentality

[kingalfred]

"Abhisit said an election that would be an answer to the country must be free and fair, "

I suspect the current rules that govern the election must be written by Thaksin, hence it is unfair and Thaksin keeps winning.

The Thai election rules must be change, to allow the minority to win sometimes, just like USA & UK.

Just a trivial question: If the poor and uneducated cannot even look after themselves, come could be truth them to look after the welfare of the country.

I'm a bit of a novice, so pardon this question.

"The Thai election rules must be change, to allow the minority to win sometimes, just like USA & UK." I don't follow what you are trying to say.

To help me understand, can you elaborate, or at least give some examples of when such events happened in the US or UK?

Ta.

what minority is that ?"how do you define majority? The PTP less than 50%? the uk analogy is false, no one gets over 50%

[spare5]

I would like to hear people's views on Abhisit's quote, "the democratic process has been distorted."

What does that mean to people?

well it clearly means "we will lose - so we won't take part - so there!" and that's all it means as if they thought they could/would win their constant whining would miraculously cease

Yet, they took part in the 2007 and 2011 elections when they didn't have much chance. Try again.

I suspect Abhisit is sh*t scared of his former subordinate, Mr Suthep. This is the only difference between 2014 and 2011.

Abhisit saw what happened to Korn when Korn criticised Suthep .... Korn got a humiliating public dressing down from Suthep from the stage (televised live), and a few weeks later Korn had to step down from his Deputy Leader position with the Dems.

Pity - I liked Korn.

You bet the wrong horse. My money is on Suthep. Not even on Mark.

Just a trivial question: If the poor and uneducated cannot even look after themselves, how could we trust them to look after the welfare of the country.

[harrry]

My view is the system really needs changing. The party list system was an attempt to prevent indepenents being elected and thus parliament being accounible. I think at least this should go.

All people in the lower house should be elected directly. There should be no party list.

[khunken]

She expressed concern that the country cannot move forward, adding that respecting the rules and participating in elections will lead to reforms.

"If they do not accept this government, they must accept the system. The government has already returned power to the people and let them decide the future of the country," said Ms Yingluck.

"The government has done everything, both promising reform and the House dissolution

And there is a major part of the problem.

First participating in elections does not lead to reforms. Quite the contrary - it leads to perpetuating the current system which badly needs reform before an election. IMO a referendum should be held on this point alone - prior to the election.

No, Yingluck they do not accept the government (post amnesty attempt) and the system (vote buying and intimidation).

Promising reform: how can a government be trusted with these empty words when it held a 'reconciliation forum', paying expenses (& more?) for overseas ex-politicians to 'advise' and completely ignoring any advice offered. Even worse the initial amnesty bill to forgive the innocent & minor law-breakers was changed - by subterfuge - into including the one individual that they denied was the target. In other words PTP cannot be trusted.

If Yingluck had any honesty (doubtful) or real power (extremely doubtful) she would consult with Abhisit - not Suthep - and come up with a cast iron reform plan that obliges all politicians to follow it.

I think the Democrat party ifs doing the right thing by not continuing to participate in a farcial pseudo-democracy.