Question about oil

[dogpoo]

Cheers, they have said I can change to part synthetic oil if I so wish, I think I will go with this option at the 1000km service, I asked them to change the filter at this first service and they agreed it would be done, I will go back to full synthetic at the 6k service!! But I will change the oil at 3000kms as well!

No need for 3000 km oil change intervals.

Stick to manual on it. Nc700x is not a high revving bike and you always say you will not be pushing the bike so no problems.

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[dogpoo]

No I will never thrash the bike, cheers for the info

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[BirdsandBooze]

Personally, I'd run it in on mineral oil to make sure of a good ring seal. It's good to pamper your bike with extra oil changes.

[Gsxrnz]

Changing oil too frequently is harmful to your engine. Oil that has been in your engine for 6,000 klms is less harmful to your engine than new oil. Oil can not perform properly during the first 2-3,000 klms. Therefore frequent changes subject your engine to excessive wear. Modern oils are capable of performing 50% longer than manufacturers recommendations.

Don't assume "black" oil is old or bad.

Changing the filter more often than changing the oil is a better solution for maintaining the life and performance of your engine.

This is especially so in low revving, non performance type engines.

[BSJ]

I think the confusion with the oil at Bug Wing is they think the oil in the engines is syn oil put in at the factory. Honda will add special break in oil as they have always done, like all manufacturers, but I very much doubt it's syn oil.

It only needs one person at HQ in LOS to get it wrong and before you know it everyones saying it!

[dogpoo]

I think the confusion with the oil at Bug Wing is they think the oil in the engines is syn oil put in at the factory. Honda will add special break in oil as they have always done, like all manufacturers, but I very much doubt it's syn oil.

It only needs one person at HQ in LOS to get it wrong and before you know it everyones saying it!

Sounds reasonable, at the 1000km service should I ask for semi-synthetic oil? Who's Richard Head?

Edited December 29, 2013 by dogpoo

[ll2]

I think the confusion with the oil at Bug Wing is they think the oil in the engines is syn oil put in at the factory. Honda will add special break in oil as they have always done, like all manufacturers, but I very much doubt it's syn oil.

It only needs one person at HQ in LOS to get it wrong and before you know it everyones saying it!

Sounds reasonable, at the 1000km service should I ask for semi-synthetic oil? Who's Richard Head?

Yes ask semi syntethic oil at 1000 km service, no problems and they will not be forcing you for full syntethic anyway.

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[dogpoo]

I think the confusion with the oil at Bug Wing is they think the oil in the engines is syn oil put in at the factory. Honda will add special break in oil as they have always done, like all manufacturers, but I very much doubt it's syn oil.

It only needs one person at HQ in LOS to get it wrong and before you know it everyones saying it!

Sounds reasonable, at the 1000km service should I ask for semi-synthetic oil? Who's Richard Head?

Yes ask semi syntethic oil at 1000 km service, no problems and they will not be forcing you for full syntethic anyway.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They have already told me I can change to semi synthetic oil, as far as I can see fully synthetic is for racing/high revving engines, mine certainly is not in either category.

[Hili]

Changing oil too frequently is harmful to your engine. Oil that has been in your engine for 6,000 klms is less harmful to your engine than new oil. Oil can not perform properly during the first 2-3,000 klms. Therefore frequent changes subject your engine to excessive wear. Modern oils are capable of performing 50% longer than manufacturers recommendations.

Don't assume "black" oil is old or bad.

Changing the filter more often than changing the oil is a better solution for maintaining the life and performance of your engine.

This is especially so in low revving, non performance type engines.

Great point a lot of these changing oil cycles and synth vs mineral oil myth are just simple marketing strategies of the oil companies. Like you mentioned modern oil is pretty advanced and long living. I read an article once which mentioned that it even doesn't matter if you use supermarket oil or well know brands; in the end they all coming form more or less the same source.

[dogpoo]

Changing oil too frequently is harmful to your engine. Oil that has been in your engine for 6,000 klms is less harmful to your engine than new oil. Oil can not perform properly during the first 2-3,000 klms. Therefore frequent changes subject your engine to excessive wear. Modern oils are capable of performing 50% longer than manufacturers recommendations.

Don't assume "black" oil is old or bad.

Changing the filter more often than changing the oil is a better solution for maintaining the life and performance of your engine.

This is especially so in low revving, non performance type engines.

Great point a lot of these changing oil cycles and synth vs mineral oil myth are just simple marketing strategies of the oil companies. Like you mentioned modern oil is pretty advanced and long living. I read an article once which mentioned that it even doesn't matter if you use supermarket oil or well know brands; in the end they all coming form more or less the same source.

So what is the best oil to use after the 1000km service, if semi synthetic is cheapish I will ask them to use that, I don't really want to go down the expensive oil route if there is no need!

[Gonsalviz]

What the dealer recommends is what the dealer sells.

Harley recommends Harley oils which sells for 400 Baht a qt. I buy the same grade oil (Caltex) 5 liters for 580 Baht. Complies with Harley's oil specifications and works great. In fact I am sure the engine is quieter.

[1ma]

Changing oil too frequently is harmful to your engine. Oil that has been in your engine for 6,000 klms is less harmful to your engine than new oil. Oil can not perform properly during the first 2-3,000 klms. Therefore frequent changes subject your engine to excessive wear. Modern oils are capable of performing 50% longer than manufacturers recommendations.

Don't assume "black" oil is old or bad.

Changing the filter more often than changing the oil is a better solution for maintaining the life and performance of your engine.

This is especially so in low revving, non performance type engines.

Great point a lot of these changing oil cycles and synth vs mineral oil myth are just simple marketing strategies of the oil companies. Like you mentioned modern oil is pretty advanced and long living. I read an article once which mentioned that it even doesn't matter if you use supermarket oil or well know brands; in the end they all coming form more or less the same source.

If it's in an article, it's definitely true.

Use the 44b vegetable cooking oil from Big C Dog Poo.

[Gsxrnz]

Changing oil too frequently is harmful to your engine. Oil that has been in your engine for 6,000 klms is less harmful to your engine than new oil. Oil can not perform properly during the first 2-3,000 klms. Therefore frequent changes subject your engine to excessive wear. Modern oils are capable of performing 50% longer than manufacturers recommendations.

Don't assume "black" oil is old or bad.

Changing the filter more often than changing the oil is a better solution for maintaining the life and performance of your engine.

This is especially so in low revving, non performance type engines.

Great point a lot of these changing oil cycles and synth vs mineral oil myth are just simple marketing strategies of the oil companies. Like you mentioned modern oil is pretty advanced and long living. I read an article once which mentioned that it even doesn't matter if you use supermarket oil or well know brands; in the end they all coming form more or less the same source.

So what is the best oil to use after the 1000km service, if semi synthetic is cheapish I will ask them to use that, I don't really want to go down the expensive oil route if there is no need!

You aren't racing the bike. A vehicle running at normal operating temperatures and well below it's maximum revs is not stressing the engine in any way whatsoever. The oil is therefore not being challenged to cope with all that high revving and maxed out engines give. i.e heat, volume and pressure of oil being pumped/cycled, less time in the pan to allow cooling, more metal shavings and impurities entering the crankcase etc etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, as you've described the way you intend to ride, you could run your bike on cooking oil and it wouldn't know the difference - OK, an over exaggeration but you get the general idea.

You also mention your running-in process and said you won't be stressing the engine - in my opinion this is the wrong way to do it. A new engine should be progressively stressed (to the max) over a very short time frame, and I mean hours, not days. This will provide the best overall breaking in, sealing, metal bedding etc. A new engine needs varying degrees of stress because they're designed to handle it. If you chug along in the middle rev range with little variation, the bores will develop lips, the rings will not seal well, and you will be producing fine filings over a longer period of time.

Change the oil/filter at 100 and use whatever oil the handbook recommends. Give the engine some stress for the firs 500 klm/s - get near the red line occasionally in low gears after warmed up, don't stay in the same rev range for more than a few minutes, use too low a gear repeatedly for cruising speeds - the gear shift is your friend.

Change oil/filter at 500 and do more of the same, but more of it. Change oil/filter at 1,000 and ride it like you stole it - it will not break! Change oil/ filter at 3,000. I'm guessing the manual says change oil/filter at 6,000 (or whatever) intervals after that, and that will be just fine. If you feel some need to treat your baby with something, spend money on the filter, not expensive and too frequent oil changes..

I used to save old oil (strained) so when I replaced the filter (midway between recommended oil/filter intervals) without changing the oil, I had used oil to top up the few cc's lost with the filter rather than adding virgin oil that would defeat the purpose.

If she hasn't got a magnetic sump plug, get an after market one.

If you were racing the bike or even pushing it to the limit on the roads, different theories apply, so please don't think the above recommendations are for high performance bikes (as in GSXR and similar) that are continually at peak power and peak stress.

[BirdsandBooze]

Oil changes will not harm your engine. I've had bikes for 50000 miles and changed the oil inbetween services without detriment to the engine and the bikes have run cooler with better gear changing.

[brfsa2]

Just do the break in once and for all, rev it to max on all gears, at the same time down gear letting the engine break by itself, then change the oil and filter.

As instructed by Gsxrnz and also here: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

[AllanB]

Are you sure Synthetic is expensive, my local Yamy dealer had it for 110baht a litre, a few baht more than standard.

I have read a few opinions and the consensus appears to be that if you change regularly standard oil is fine, unless you are racing the bike. A bit unwise given the roads here. Your oil change regime seems to be more than strict, so I would use standard.

Dealers will always sell you the product that suits their pocket, NGK almost wiped out Champion proving that. Thai dealers have NFI..

[brfsa2]

Are you sure Synthetic is expensive, my local Yamy dealer had it for 110baht a litre, a few baht more than standard.

I have read a few opinions and the consensus appears to be that if you change regularly standard oil is fine, unless you are racing the bike. A bit unwise given the roads here. Your oil change regime seems to be more than strict, so I would use standard.

Dealers will always sell you the product that suits their pocket, NGK almost wiped out Champion proving that. Thai dealers have NFI..

Not likely that 1L of synthetic Oil can be 110 Baht, for that you get a 100% Petroleum Oil.

A good Semi-Synthetic can be 135-180, but I have not yet found motorcycle Fully-Synthetic Oil on gas stations.

I really like the Shell Advance Semi-Synthetic, it's not expensive and be found on most Shell Stations.

http://www.shell.co.th/en/products-services/on-the-road/oils-lubricants/advance.html

I've never seen the "Shell Advance Ultra 4T" for sale yet. it's fully synthetic, I think it could 10-20,000 KM

[brfsa2]

Changing oil too frequently is harmful to your engine. Oil that has been in your engine for 6,000 klms is less harmful to your engine than new oil. Oil can not perform properly during the first 2-3,000 klms. Therefore frequent changes subject your engine to excessive wear. Modern oils are capable of performing 50% longer than manufacturers recommendations.

Don't assume "black" oil is old or bad.

Changing the filter more often than changing the oil is a better solution for maintaining the life and performance of your engine.

This is especially so in low revving, non performance type engines.

Great point a lot of these changing oil cycles and synth vs mineral oil myth are just simple marketing strategies of the oil companies. Like you mentioned modern oil is pretty advanced and long living. I read an article once which mentioned that it even doesn't matter if you use supermarket oil or well know brands; in the end they all coming form more or less the same source.

So what is the best oil to use after the 1000km service, if semi synthetic is cheapish I will ask them to use that, I don't really want to go down the expensive oil route if there is no need!

You aren't racing the bike. A vehicle running at normal operating temperatures and well below it's maximum revs is not stressing the engine in any way whatsoever. The oil is therefore not being challenged to cope with all that high revving and maxed out engines give. i.e heat, volume and pressure of oil being pumped/cycled, less time in the pan to allow cooling, more metal shavings and impurities entering the crankcase etc etc etc ad infinitum.

Basically, as you've described the way you intend to ride, you could run your bike on cooking oil and it wouldn't know the difference - OK, an over exaggeration but you get the general idea.

You also mention your running-in process and said you won't be stressing the engine - in my opinion this is the wrong way to do it. A new engine should be progressively stressed (to the max) over a very short time frame, and I mean hours, not days. This will provide the best overall breaking in, sealing, metal bedding etc. A new engine needs varying degrees of stress because they're designed to handle it. If you chug along in the middle rev range with little variation, the bores will develop lips, the rings will not seal well, and you will be producing fine filings over a longer period of time.

Change the oil/filter at 100 and use whatever oil the handbook recommends. Give the engine some stress for the firs 500 klm/s - get near the red line occasionally in low gears after warmed up, don't stay in the same rev range for more than a few minutes, use too low a gear repeatedly for cruising speeds - the gear shift is your friend.

Change oil/filter at 500 and do more of the same, but more of it. Change oil/filter at 1,000 and ride it like you stole it - it will not break! Change oil/ filter at 3,000. I'm guessing the manual says change oil/filter at 6,000 (or whatever) intervals after that, and that will be just fine. If you feel some need to treat your baby with something, spend money on the filter, not expensive and too frequent oil changes..

I used to save old oil (strained) so when I replaced the filter (midway between recommended oil/filter intervals) without changing the oil, I had used oil to top up the few cc's lost with the filter rather than adding virgin oil that would defeat the purpose.

If she hasn't got a magnetic sump plug, get an after market one.

If you were racing the bike or even pushing it to the limit on the roads, different theories apply, so please don't think the above recommendations are for high performance bikes (as in GSXR and similar) that are continually at peak power and peak stress.

Gsxrng, I totally agree on 'Don't assume "black" oil is old or bad.'

The oil gets black within a few hundred KM with the carbon coming from the combustion.

Bad oil has dirty and metal particles on it or it's already starting to burn. You need to check the oil gauge often, and keep records of engine temperature.

I did some research on Magnetic sump plug, it's really interesting concept and it should make the engine last much longer.

I definitely wanna buy one. Any ideas where to purchase in LOS?

check out this video on oil check:

[PeterSmiles]

I have watched a few you tube videos on the subject of synthetic oil versus conventional oil, I now understand

Have you ever noticed that 99% of Youtubes on whatever subject is uploaded by retards ?

[PeterSmiles]

Are you sure Synthetic is expensive, my local Yamy dealer had it for 110baht a litre, a few baht more than standard.

Suggest you take a closer look at the bottle again, it will say something like synthetic technology or alike.

110 Bht/liter for full synthetic oil are wet dreams.

[RubberSideDown]

I used to go by the 'break it in with dino or semi-synthetic oil' rule, but BMW fills the S1000RR with Castrol 1 Power Racing fully synthetic oil from the factory- they also use it in the K and R bikes in their line- Porsche uses it as well- those Germans know how to build an engine, so my mind is changing on the matter.

I've read that the viscosity difference of synthetic oil makes it a poor break-in oil, but I've also read reports contradicting that info.

Still, as has been mentioned, the main advantage of fully synthetic oil is its longer service life- if you change your oil within (or more frequently than) the manufacturer's guidelines, semi-synthetic is fine- if you push the limits or ride your bike on the track (or you just want to make sure you always have the top-spec stuff in your bike), fully synthetic is a better choice.

[AllanB]

Are you sure Synthetic is expensive, my local Yamy dealer had it for 110baht a litre, a few baht more than standard.

Suggest you take a closer look at the bottle again, it will say something like synthetic technology or alike.

110 Bht/liter for full synthetic oil are wet dreams.

"Super Synthetic Blend" and it was on offer, so.....? But it works okay, the engine runs at normal temperatures and no smoke at all.

But next time I will go back to a standard make standard oil, after the world timing belt fiasco I am skeptical of everything I hear from official sources. Standard oils have worked for years without problems, Hell, over here Honda can't even agree a grade of oil.

I don't race the bike and keep an eye on fluid levels and temperature, so why change if it works.

Isn't "Blend" a drink over here...doh!

[PeterSmiles]

Are you sure Synthetic is expensive, my local Yamy dealer had it for 110baht a litre, a few baht more than standard.

Suggest you take a closer look at the bottle again, it will say something like synthetic technology or alike.

110 Bht/liter for full synthetic oil are wet dreams.

"Super Synthetic Blend" and it was on offer, so.....?

Super Synthetic Blend ?

blend

blend/

a mixture of different things or qualities

Oh and yes blend is a Thai spirit that pretends to be a Whisky .

Edited December 30, 2013 by PeterSmiles

[AllanB]

Are you sure Synthetic is expensive, my local Yamy dealer had it for 110baht a litre, a few baht more than standard.

Suggest you take a closer look at the bottle again, it will say something like synthetic technology or alike.

110 Bht/liter for full synthetic oil are wet dreams.

"Super Synthetic Blend" and it was on offer, so.....?

Super Synthetic Blend ?

blend

blend/

a mixture of different things or qualities

Oh and yes blend is a Thai spirit that pretends to be a Whisky .

Rum, I think...you don't think I would put bloody whisky in my engine?

Edited December 30, 2013 by AllanB

[PeterSmiles]

"Super Synthetic Blend" and it was on offer, so.....?

Super Synthetic Blend ?

blend

blend/

a mixture of different things or qualities

Oh and yes blend is a Thai spirit that pretends to be a Whisky .

Rum, I think...you don't think I would put bloody whisky in my engine?

Blend 285

Blend 285 is an Admix that is a produce derived from Scottish malt whiskey, aged for years, and then blended by experts from Scotland.

http://www.thaibev.com/en08/product.aspx?sublv1gID=12

And to answer your question if I think you would put Whisky in your engine.

Going from your posts on this forum, I can't confirm or deny with certainty

Edited December 30, 2013 by PeterSmiles

[brfsa2]

Found this strong magnet bolt, but price about 1,300 Baht

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12mm-MAGNETIC-OIL-DRAIN-PLUG-BOLT-CRUSH-WASHER-for-OIL-PAN-HONDA-CBR500R-250-/200931519398

[AllanB]

"Super Synthetic Blend" and it was on offer, so.....?

Super Synthetic Blend ?

blend

blend/

a mixture of different things or qualities

Oh and yes blend is a Thai spirit that pretends to be a Whisky .

Rum, I think...you don't think I would put bloody whisky in my engine?

Blend 285

Blend 285 is an Admix that is a produce derived from Scottish malt whiskey, aged for years, and then blended by experts from Scotland.

http://www.thaibev.com/en08/product.aspx?sublv1gID=12

And to answer your question if I think you would put Whisky in your engine.

Going from your posts on this forum, I can't confirm or deny with certainty

I am not so sure myself now....tut! the things you learn on this forum... Anyway why does 285 taste like rum?

It could be worse, we could be talking about the real thing....... Then we would have a ruined engine and a magnet required for the whisky

[Gsxrnz]

Found this strong magnet bolt, but price about 1,300 Baht

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12mm-MAGNETIC-OIL-DRAIN-PLUG-BOLT-CRUSH-WASHER-for-OIL-PAN-HONDA-CBR500R-250-/200931519398

Yeah that looks like the Bees Knees, but check out some bike accessory shops in Thailand and you're bound to get one cheaper.

And before you install it, get it drilled so you can put some tie-wire through it and lock it in - always feel more comfortable knowing it ain't going to move.

I got in this habit years ago with racing. I'm still phobic and also tie my filter in as well.

[Shurup]

Was going to say, go with what manual says, but someone already suggested that. Dealers are for the most part just sales people, especially in Thailand, so most have no idea...

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[dogpoo]

After talking to Bigwing(the manager actually seems to know what he is talking about, I am going to stay with semi-synthetic oil at the 1000km change then go fully synthetic at the 6000km service, all the bikes at Bigwing go with fully synthetic at the 1000km change, I am happy with this, the full synthetic oil change is 1800bht not including oil filter, no idea what it will be using semi-synthetic but must be cheaper!